Total Eclipse after all the fuss about pali aoe never see anyone use it why?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GDFletcher

I use it quite a lot. But it would be nice if SE would add Enmity to it

---

No definitely not! Using flash once in awhile is really not that big a deal and gives your tp a chance to restore a little.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dzian

One or two adds isn't worth total eclipsing. Think you need a minimum of 5 mobs for it to be worthwhile. Anything less and it's a dps loss

---

What single target ability other than Holy spirit can hit for 500 potency? 4 or more mobs and it's efficient.

Its not that great. For what pld already has, idk why they included a skill like that. What ppl wanted was a spammable aoe move w/ enmity prior to 40, cause it was annoying how pld had shield oath at 40, but they fixed that with SB.

This thread simply boggles the mind.

I only use it if I know I've got enough hits on the mob that I won't lose hate with. I've had people tell me to use it, but when DPS are hitting for so hard, I ignored the request to keep hate. (Before they buffed Tanks, I haven't had time to do many dungeons since then)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aeeninwen_Taldel

I only use it if I know I've got enough hits on the mob that I won't lose hate with. I've had people tell me to use it, but when DPS are hitting for so hard, I ignored the request to keep hate. (Before they buffed Tanks, I haven't had time to do many dungeons since then)

---

Use flash every 10-15 seconds and total eclipse otherwise and you'll not lose aggro for sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KalinOrthos

It's not so much that the skill is underpowered, it's just inefficient. Total Eclipse doesn't have added enmity, while Flash and Circle of Scorn do. A paladin's go-to AoE enmity spam is still Flash because it means you hold hate for longer. Total Eclipse is alright for contributing damage to trash, but does nothing to keep enemies focused on you.

---

Slaying accessories + Shield Oath will still give you 325 enmity-potency per GCD.

DPS no longer have Enhanced Action Damage I/II (10/20%); if you're using the same accessories and item level, what you see, potency-wise, is what you get.

Until facing burst AoE at 70, one need only use Flash per duration, rather than wasting its mitigation.

As a PLD, it almost infuriates me when leveling alts to see a PLD around 100% TP in a 13-mob pull when the physical DPS have long since drained themselves, Goad/Tactician included, because they insist on only ever using Flash.

Worse still, I've had... 8 dungeons (yes, I keep a tally on a flashcard by my keyboard), just in the course of leveling Monk, in which a Paladin would use no more than his ARR skills, give or take Clemency. No Goring, no Royal, no Total Eclipse. There is no excuse for that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maeka

It just simply doesn't do enough damage, to be quite honest.

---

That is ridiculous.

Total Eclipse 37.5n (as in, per target) pps, compared to a fixed 121 pps available only every 21 seconds or 86 pps damage filler—both of these without any added enmity—or a 72 pps enmity filler.
On three targets, Goring Blade spread is superior if any only if , as long as you're going to get an average of at least 18 seconds of duration on each. Beyond that target count or below that DoT duration, Total Eclipse is superior.

The period in which you're burning TP on Total Eclipse is also the period over which lower maximum HP mobs are trimmed out, leaving fewer targets between which to rotate Goring Blade. And there's always Clemency spam while the WHM/AST AoEs or the SCH resets DoTs to Bane if you're completely bottomed out (TE having been more TP-efficient, even, at over 6 targets), which should not be the case unless your DPS are performing rather poorly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dzian

One or two adds isn't worth total eclipsing. Think you need a minimum of 5 mobs for it to be worthwhile. Anything less and it's a dps loss

---

5 mobs is 550 base potency per GCD. Continuously until TP-starved. Your combos stopped being competitive with that at 3 targets unless DoTing a different targets each time with (as above) at least 6 DoT ticks each. It is enormously powerful by comparison.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maeka

I was seeing 300-600s pop up on the screen when I used it. Big whoop.

---

Would you rather have 5 sets of 450, or 1 set of 2100. Your numbers are outliers, but even given what you've posted, the single-target option would still be a DPS loss.

Also... Flash does not deal damage except through whatever additional healer GCDs the reduced enemy hit rate may provide. Spamming it, therefore, as a primary enmity generator wastes what little DPS it would give.

____________________________________________

Tl;dr: If DPS are semi-focusing certain mobs during AoE pulls, Gore them and fill with Total Eclipse. When there are 3 mobs, Gore all that will not die in fewer than 18 seconds, and then fill with Total Eclipse until there are 2 or fewer. At that point, change your filler to Royal Authority on either, if neither is being ripped from you and the healer will not need to waste GCDs to heal you; otherwise the lower HP one for a quick finish and reduced damage taken or healing GCDs / CDs required or the one DPS are ripping from you.

It just simply doesn't do enough damage, to be quite honest. Last time I did a dungeon and I did some tests... I was seeing 300-600s pop up on the screen when I used it. Big whoop.

It doesn't even budge the mobs' HP meters whatsoever, and it sucks your TP dry like nobody's business. At 110 TP cost, you don't last long if you spam it. Instead of doing 600, 400, and a bunch of 300s to a pack of enemies, you could instead unleash a what again, 1500 Fast Blade + 1800ish Riot Blade + 3,000 or more Royal Authority to a single mob. Or split it up between mobs if you're concerned with losing hate on one of them (which should not be happening because you have Flash, lol).

So, I'll use it if I have some extra GCDs, but usually I'd rather Single-Target for more damage instead. I might throw one or two of them in a large pull after Requiscat (or however you spell the thing) since that amps up the damage a bit (especially if FoF is also up).

But without any buffs? Nah. Too weak.

And I'm not one of those paladins who ignores skills, lol. No, I use my RAs, Clemencies, Sheltrons, etc. Goring Blade... eh, I keep forgetting about that. Usually I save it for bosses. GB is not something I've found to be all that effective on most trash mobs, because the thing dies before even half of the DoT was applied. An RA would have been better, I'd think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maeka

I
And I'm not one of those paladins who ignores skills, lol. No, I use my RAs, Clemencies, Sheltrons, etc. Goring Blade... eh, I keep forgetting about that. Usually I save it for bosses. GB is not something I've found to be all that effective on most trash mobs, because the thing dies before even half of the DoT was applied. An RA would have been better, I'd think.

---

Royal authority is 360 potency. Goring blade is 250 potency plus 60 per tick. It takes only 2 ticks before goring blade outdamages royal authority, which can happen in between 3 and 6 seconds depending on server ticks. "Half the dot" is another 1.5 ticks later.

In general, people underestimate dot value compared with the direct counterpart, goring blade is no different. Full goring blade is 670 potency but 250 of that is frontloaded.

TE spam ftw! I goring or ra on 2 but 3+ it's te all the way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maeka

It just simply doesn't do enough damage, to be quite honest. Last time I did a dungeon and I did some tests... I was seeing 300-600s pop up on the screen when I used it. Big whoop.

---

do you really suggest focusing on one target is a good idea, fight or flight and TE spam on adds is a way better method I wish I still had a parser cause Im certain doin aoe to multiple adds is a much better method, if you just being a meat shield you are doing a disservice to your team. On drk Im spammin aoe, on warrior Im tryin to overpower berserk, on pali its flash TE spam , scorn when its up not aoeing makes things slower.

I use it, even experimented with it when I had to rebuild hotbars for EA (didn't have xpac for EA but patch dropped anyway), basicly if the pull goes over 3-4 mobs or boss spawns a ton of low hp adds I use it (with FoF & initial 3 flash spam) if not then the "new" Royal combo with flash's thrown in while switching mobs to find 1 DPS has highest hate on (Halone combo were needed)

well in all the instances you do mass pulls so not using it when you have like 10 mobs on your a** is a waste

DRK players: sthu please. You have two attacks that deal Enmity gen and damage. While Paladins have to switch back and forth.

"Oh, gotta get hold of enmity." Flash a couple times.

"Gotta DPS." Eclipse some.

"Dammit, SAM is getting aggro'd." Flash some.

"Alright, back to hittin' shit." Eclipse some.

In a game so focused on the DEEPS PER SECOND, it's a loss of going back and forth between the two.

DRK's just have to fist their damn keyboards to deal damage and keep enmity up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KalinOrthos

It's not so much that the skill is underpowered, it's just inefficient. Total Eclipse doesn't have added enmity, while Flash and Circle of Scorn do. A paladin's go-to AoE enmity spam is still Flash because it means you hold hate for longer. Total Eclipse is alright for contributing damage to trash, but does nothing to keep enemies focused on you.

---

It's underpowered unless the pack is large, but then that's a decision as to whether it's more efficient to single target and rotate targets, or AOE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by otarolgam

DRK players: sthu please. You have two attacks that deal Enmity gen and damage. While Paladins have to switch back and forth.

"Oh, gotta get hold of enmity." Flash a couple times.

"Gotta DPS." Eclipse some.

"Dammit, SAM is getting aggro'd." Flash some.

"Alright, back to hittin' shit." Eclipse some.

In a game so focused on the DEEPS PER SECOND, it's a loss of going back and forth between the two.

DRK's just have to fist their damn keyboards to deal damage and keep enmity up.

---

If you can't use 2 skills like that then i don't know what to say. There is nothing hard about using both at the same time. I see this a lot though, people assume you have to SPAM flash to hold aggro, that is not how you use flash. You use it once every maybe 10-15 seconds, trust me it's enough, you do NOT have to spam it at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

It's underpowered unless the pack is large, but then that's a decision as to whether it's more efficient to single target and rotate targets, or AOE.

---

Both this and the statement you were replying to are false, it's already been established with math that its a dps gain at 4+ targets. As for the enmity, it doesn't provide bonus enmity, but that doesn't mean it generates 0 enmity. It does damage, thus it generates enmity. Can you spam this skill alone and still keep aggro? no of course not, but that is not the point, combine it with flash and circle of scorn whenever it comes off cd and you will both be doing more damage AND hold aggro at the very same time = profit.

TE is awesome and if you don't think so you're insane, no ifs ands or butts. The ONLY thing that can be said is that it'd be nice of it had extra enmity but it's not necessary. You guys were flashing before constantly, why is flashing a problem now? Once or twice and you're good to go. Don't aoe tank in sword oath unless you really know what you're doing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thela

Both this and the statement you were replying to are false, it's already been established with math that its a dps gain at 4+ targets.

---

.
Either I wasn't clear, or you misunderstood. I was saying that with larger packs, it works because of the larger number of enemies, but in smaller packs, it's a little under powered meaning you have to switch to single target rotation instead in total eclipse.

I use it all the time. I think a lot of PLDs still have the pacifist mentality though, or just don't think it's 'good' because it doesn't have enmity. A lot of people who have played nothing but PLD are used to focusing purely on basic tank functions since they never got encouraged to focus on damage as much as the other tanks so they probably just figure "PLDs do little damage so why should I bother?".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by otarolgam

DRK players: sthu please. You have two attacks that deal Enmity gen and damage. While Paladins have to switch back and forth.

"Oh, gotta get hold of enmity." Flash a couple times.

"Gotta DPS." Eclipse some.

"Dammit, SAM is getting aggro'd." Flash some.

"Alright, back to hittin' shit." Eclipse some.

In a game so focused on the DEEPS PER SECOND, it's a loss of going back and forth between the two.

DRK's just have to fist their damn keyboards to deal damage and keep enmity up.

---

You're looking at things in a pseudo-vaccuum with zero consideration to any other interaction with abilities or resources. Abyssal drain uses a shitload of mana, you cannot spam it forever anymore than you can spam total eclipse and hope to hold threat. To maximise damage, they need to spend gcds generating resources, where we don't. We need to spend gcds generating enmity, where they don't.

Switching back and fourth from flash to total eclipse is a dps loss in a vaccuum, but relative to the other tanks its only a dps loss if its not balanced around the other tank's "rotations" as well. Consider it your aoe "rotation" to be using flash exactly as often as you need to to hold threat and no more.

Also, to reiterate from earlier pages:

Quote:

---

You should be casting Clemency while your healer AoEs.

Holy and gravity are 200 potency, ramping down to 100 potency for the 6th and on target. The healer's weapon is higher damage than yours, and their damage scales from the stat they have on all pieces of gear (the 320 versions, not our 270 ones).

If you can live without casting clemency AND the healer doesn't need to heal you with on-gcd heals then fine. Go for it. If you're casting total eclipse while the healer casts a heal on you, your group lost damage.

---

I use Total Eclipse a lot in those dungeon pulls with a huge stack, 8, 10, 12, or more adds... that are individually not strong... once I lock down aggro with a few flashes and a circle of scorn... attacking just one of them is pointless... so I spam Total Eclipse in between defensive cooldowns.

Otherwise there isn't much use for it, except for setting up a nice looking gpose.

as much as TE was needed, it is far too weak. Other tanks have aoe that deal considerately more damage and have enmity so logically it makes no sense for PLD to have the lowest/no enmity. even if TE had enmity, it still wouldnt rip from other tanks because their AoE deals more damage thus granting more threat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormbrand

as much as TE was needed, it is far too weak. Other tanks have aoe that deal considerately more damage and have enmity so logically it makes no sense for PLD to have the lowest/no enmity. even if TE had enmity, it still wouldnt rip from other tanks because their AoE deals more damage thus granting more threat.

---

Makes perfect sense cause you're not supposed to use it on its own but rather combine it with flash.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thela

Makes perfect sense cause you're not supposed to use it on its own but rather combine it with flash.

---

you are clearly not understanding

even if it is weaker than the other tanks who actually cares? idk why people fuss about aoes so much they are barely needed in content that matters, just useful for big dick pulls that dps and healers do a better job of aoeing anyway. Tank aoe is just another contribution, it hardly matters as much as people think it does.

I use Total Eclipse until my TP goes low in big pulls after using 2-3 Flashes and a Circle of Scorn while keeping in check the OGCDs. No hassle, all glory in big pulls in dungeons. It doesn't generate that much Emnity, but I can feel it gradually stacks over multiple uses of TE while in Shield Oath. I haven't found much use of TE in boss fights except for cases like Baelsar's Wall's 2nd boss.

Imo, some reasons for me to stop using TEs include:

• Requisecat is ready, in which case I can nuke for the buff's duration before I continue using TE.
  
• My HP is on a critical threshold, in which case, Clemency.
  
• Less than equal to 3 mobs left, in which case, Riot Blade combo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

even if it is weaker than the other tanks who actually cares? idk why people fuss about aoes so much they are barely needed in content that matters, just useful for big dick pulls that dps and healers do a better job of aoeing anyway. Tank aoe is just another contribution, it hardly matters as much as people think it does.

---

this is true but ive seen several big pulls fail due to the tanks not aoeing putting all the pressure on your two dps, lets be real hear most healers not gona spam their aoes because it drains their mp which they need tanks dont need tp nearly as much as heals need mp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormbrand

as much as TE was needed, it is far too weak. Other tanks have aoe that deal considerately more damage and have enmity so logically it makes no sense for PLD to have the lowest/no enmity. even if TE had enmity, it still wouldnt rip from other tanks because their AoE deals more damage thus granting more threat.

---

TE is only 10 potency less than OP and AD bit more sustainable and benefit from the long duration of FoF.
I've never had to flash more than once in big dungeon pull before starting TE spam. Once your out of tp, HS spam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonseth07

Here's the real reason people aren't using it: it's learned at level 46, IIRC. They were level 60 when the expac hit, and didn't read up on changes. They have no idea they are missing a critical ability.

I have taught plenty of PLD's in-game about TE for this exact reason.

---

I have anecdotal data on this: Asked my brother why he was not using Total Eclipse on his PLD. He had no clue what I was talking about, had to tell him to go look at his level 46. He never bother to look at new abilities, he did notice all the ones he lost with the change, but never occurred to him they would add new stuff at lower levels.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

I have anecdotal data on this: Asked my brother why he was not using Total Eclipse on his PLD. He had no clue what I was talking about, had to tell him to go look at his level 46. He never bother to look at new abilities, he did notice all the ones he lost with the change, but never occurred to him they would add new stuff at lower levels.

---

Sometime I forget about our new skills. it's happens that I forget/delay our HS spam after FoF just because I forget I have the skill available. lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shinkyo

TE is only 10 potency less than OP and AD bit more sustainable and benefit from the long duration of FoF.
I've never had to flash more than once in big dungeon pull before starting TE spam. Once your out of tp, HS spam

---

well, WAR and DRK both have a 20% inc in dmg compared to PLD so that needs to be taken into account. even with FoF, we still do less than a WAR and DRK without generating enmity. TE should do atleast 140 to do respectable dmg, as it is now its shit.

I spam TE after 1-2 flashes and I never really lose hate. Only time I lose hate is to a BLM after they triple flare, but only if they're stupid and don't use Diversion or something.