PvP Rewards Now Tied to Win/Loss: Will There Be Endemic Cheating?

I wish pvp rewards were better. Some mounts for agonizing away hours ,and hours of life is kinda lack luster. I much prefer the systems where pve gear doesn't do well in pvp , and gear collection/combinations matter. I honestly only attend frontline for xp and the pipe dream of some wins(see mount comment above). I hope this makes life better for the die-hard pvpers but i doubt it. good luck yall~

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Originally Posted by Rilasha

Hi, I'm 70k damage to PCs AST while healing my allies effectively. Why should I get the same exp as afkers that are on my team?

I still think that this doesn't correct the issue that there are afkers leeching exp still getting the same exp as someone who is actively trying to win and do things.

If there's still afkers, it makes all the people who are trying to win get less exp as a whole on the losing teams, even if they're busting their best play to get the W. (What if you lose by one point?)
And yet, the afkers on the winning team gets rewarded with more exp for doing nothing.

What if you're placed on a team where there's like 5 afkers on your team and you have no chance of winning? Do you just quit and go do something else even though you like playing PvP?

I can't say this solves the afk problem. I guess I should be glad I play on JP datacentre.

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They should make a rating system similar fates have to balance rewards.

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Originally Posted by NefarioCall

No, the flow of the underlying game is still at issue. Speed running instanced dungeons is ok the first time, but after 100 times no thank you. And since exp is on a curve, older content does not give ample exp unless you have the ... ONE A DAY WEEKLY!!!11uuu how a game based on the armory system has weekly lockouts still baffles me.

The game badly needs other ways to grind besides duty finder crap. What makes PvP so attractive is not that it is the best exp per hour, but that it is the least demanding exp per hour. Based on the design, both the old and the new, yes, the new too, it still beats out PotD as far as being able to kinda just cruise along on auto-pilot. So say, if i get 1 mil an hour in PvP on auto half brain dead mode vs 2 mil in speed run soul destroying forever duty finders, then i will STILL pick PvP.

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Are you an AFK'er? Are you a game thrower? Are you pants on head retarded?

If you answered no to all of those things then please, keep queuing up for PVP. If you're actively participating then by all means join us and get your free XP. However, PVP is competitive and there never should have been equal XP rewards for all the tiers, which SE has fixed for us. Huzzah! \o/

If you just want easy XP with little to no work then PVP is no longer the place for you in that regard.

Appreciated change.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

You need to come play Adder on the Aether cluster. I think there's a mild meme of how much we do not win. Does it happen, yes it does, but even with Freelancers it's a minor miracle when we do.

Honestly, I've never really played for XP, I've been slowly but surely farming Wolf Marks for the Garo gear in my spare time and enjoying the occasional WT or Tomestone windfall from it. However, I do know a lot of folks that did use it for the XP, folks that honestly try but still are not very good. I worry that they'll start getting harassed to the point where they no longer queue. If enough people do that they might go the route they did with the Feast and shut down chat. I don't want to see that happen, it's hard enough to coordinate Ice/Nodes with headless chickens as it is.

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Adders on Aether is hilarious. Even with freelancer being a thing, I think the GC has a 15% winrate.

This should fix the issue with AFK people in PvP. Now if you want good EXP, you should aim to win.

Cheating and buying wins always existed, even in PvP. Especially since these mounts and minions were introduced as rewards. If you just keep an eye on PvP ranking, it is so obvious who is cheating.

theres no real difference in winrate between aether GC's

http://de.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...=&match=&gcid=

all people average between 25-30% wr, no matter of the company

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Originally Posted by HyperSMB

I expect that will change and we will finally see ACTUAL competition.

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No you won't. Players flocked to pvp because of the exp. And people could enjoy it despite win or loss. Cause lets face it pvp is a complete mess. There's no such thing as group coordination. Once people realize there's no more value in enjoying pvp the player base will drop off. Remember people flock to where exp is the most efficient. This fact has never changed. All this will do is increase pvp queue times and while everyone will flock to the next easy exp grind.

I welcome the change. Unless its harder for Mael to win >.>

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Originally Posted by Sylvaneste

One, not a dude. 2, it was merely a really rough (albeit not planned or very well thought out) draft that people can easily do it. What is SE going to do, ban everyone that takes part in pvp?

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They don't need to do anything. Your system punishes the players already.

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

theres no real difference in winrate between aether GC's

http://de.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...=&match=&gcid=

all people average between 25-30% wr, no matter of the company

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Personal standings =/= how often the GC as a whole wins now that Freelancer exists. We are not kidding when we say Aether Adders have an issue. Ask around, it's a thing.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

If you just want easy XP with little to no work then PVP is no longer the place for you in that regard.

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I could make an essay length topic about how this game (which is great),
makes such baffling design choices in some areas.
I won't. Perhaps another day.

But in answer to the 'what do i want'? Question...
I want to level multiple jobs to cap.
That's it... that's ALL i want. Bleep, i don't even care if they're all awesomely geared, although that's never a bad thing...
I just want to have multiple jobs to choose from when i tackle content...

And this game, with its weekly lockouts and seeming choice to funnel players into the duty finder for basically any decent option at getting those exp levels, makes it a chore to do any more than one job. If you like just having one job, then you're livin free.

And that's where the problem lies. Am i an AFKer? Not by design. No.
I often go through the motions in varying degrees.
What i am is brain dead numb from the constant drill,
to the point where i just can't bring myself to try anymore.
And if i get kicked, it still just feels like less of a chore to lose that time and retry than always try.
In fact getting kicked makes me want to try even less.
For the love of god give us some other options.

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

I won't stop them entirely. We need to be vote kicking the buggers and potentially reporting repeated offenders that you see do the same thing over multiple games. However, hopefully it will discourage them from AFK'ing because if they're not participating and their teams continually lose it just makes their leveling process that much slower.

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Why would it discourage them? Nerfed free EXP is still free EXP. They don't do it because its good EXP, they do it because its free EXP. You usually you get 0 EXP for doing nothing, but you can get EXP AFK in PVP. Even some EXP is better than none.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

Personal standings =/= how often the GC as a whole wins now that Freelancer exists. We are not kidding when we say Aether Adders have an issue. Ask around, it's a thing.

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Lets just say it's a good thing Adder's are yellow, because it certainly fits their playstyle.

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Originally Posted by Syfurion

Lets just say it's a good thing Adder's are yellow, because it certainly fits their playstyle.

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I dunno. I also see the boldly stupid charging middle when we have ice up. They're brave enough I guess. Die quick enough too. I'm no amazing person in pvp but at least I keep an eye on my danged mini map and use LoS to my advantage.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

I dunno. I also see the boldly stupid charging middle when we have ice up. They're brave enough I guess. Die quick enough too. I'm no amazing person in pvp but at least I keep an eye on my danged mini map and use LoS to my advantage.

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Interesting. The Adder's I generally see only attempt to back-cap bases, and flee at the sight of any retaliation. I wonder which are the actual Adders, and which are the freelancers now....

Nice so now even if I tried everything to make us win and still lose, because there will be always only one winner even if all three parts are doing their best, I am getting punished with less exp..even though a loss is already annoying since only victories count towards the mounts (not the Garo mounts) anyway..I am quite sure that the skill level will not raise that much with it since people were already bad before you got exp from PVP.

Why couldnt they do something to just punish the AFKlers. Like you need a certain amount of activity to get the bonus or something like that. Well back to Feast..there I have at least a 50% chance to get a decent group and win..

I think the EXP should be tied to individual performance. How you put the metrics down for that I'm not sure, as I don't PvP, so I will defer to the experts on PvP on that. But basically if you're doing little to nothing to help the PvP match you get 0 EXP (and maybe an EXP lockout that stops you getting EXP by any means for 24 hours if you really are throwing for the sake of trying to get faster EXP). There definitely SHOULD be incentives for winning too, such as Garo stuff etc, but it needs to be made competitive. I've dabbled in PvP in the past, it's meant to be cutthroat.

And simply because someone is going to challenge me on this: The reason I don't PvP is because I don't get any enjoyment out of it. It could offer 500x better EXP than every other option combined and I'd still refuse to partake simply because I don't get any enjoyment out of it. I've had friends try to queue me up for PvP with them in the past by being in party, I just left party and refused to party up with them again for like 24 hours.

Anybody been doing/plan doing tests to see how big difference there is between 1st, 2nd and 3rd on experience gain?

Just a bit worried since I was just planning to start leveling up my DPS, but if they ended up "killing" PvP as source of experience, might as well bite the bullet and play dungeon/FATE route instead.

I rarely pvped anyways unless was going with fc members.

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Originally Posted by Anzaman

Anybody been doing/plan doing tests to see how big difference there is between 1st, 2nd and 3rd on experience gain?

Just a bit worried since I was just planning to start leveling up my DPS, but if they ended up "killing" PvP as source of experience, might as well bite the bullet and play dungeon/FATE route instead.

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someone said in shout during match that it is
699300exp for a win
499500exp for a loss

I normally hate pvp in games, but really enjoyed the new pvp stuff and doing shatter, i did it for the exp as it was a great way to lvl, and i'm prolly garbage but i tried, i went and smashed ice instead of sitting in the base, but the stupid as hell afkers ruin it for eeryone, i hope you all get banned

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Originally Posted by teruk

someone said in shout during match that it is
699300exp for a win
499500exp for a loss

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more than enough exp for people to still afk and get more exp than waiting for 30min dps ques for other content, the problem with pvp doesn't stem from pvp, it stems from a lack of tank/healer roles queuing for other content, until the exp is buffed in dungeons to account for que times, or EXP nerfed so hard in pvp that waiting in a 30min que is still a better option nothing will change, i know the afk people really make a bad name for people trying to level in pvp, but currently its the only option most dps have to level.

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Originally Posted by teruk

someone said in shout during match that it is
699300exp for a win
499500exp for a loss

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That's not bad at all. Free XP for doing nothing is is still XP. Probably wont change a thing.

Uhhhh, isn't it just the PvP rank exp that's now tied to win/loss?

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Originally Posted by swiss_Momo

Uhhhh, isn't it just the PvP rank exp that's now tied to win/loss?

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No, it's the regular exp. In fact, I think pvp exp has always been tied to win/loss.

At LvL 68 the xp is:

Win: 812700xp

Lose: 580500xp

Is 232200xp less.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

At LvL 68 the xp is:

Win: 812700xp

Lose: 580500xp

Is 232200xp less.

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still great. I level'd a dps class but I was going the regular route. While leveling a healer on my other alt. The time I spend in queue's during that as dps, I could have easily leveled one or two alts in the time it took. Healer of course was no problem at all. Next time I level dps again, I am doing the pvp route, but at least I don't afk, even tho I absolutely suck at pvp lol

Another bad change for PvP! I guess people will become more salty in frontlines right now.

...loving it how this was always the case with PvP-rewards (wolfmarks and pvp-rank-exp) and not a problem at all - but as soon as the PvE-rewards gets touched people start crying, complaining its unfair!

In all seriousness: I take my one hour queues for frontlines back when that means that I dont get a tone of people in there anymore who dont really want to be there. Its not even about winning/losing its about how its unfun to watch a bunch of people afk'ing or actually trolling in some kind of way. Yes, I know its just a game and yes, I know its just supposed to be fun but specially in PvP I cant stand people with the "lol, chill, I do what I want"-attitude.

Yeah this decrease is not going to solve anything. Here's an idea to all EXP grinders; Go throw yourselves to the winning team so they can farm points much faster so you can re queue ASAP!

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

I now feel even worse about being an Aether Twin Adder. Even with Freelancer on I always seem to be an Adder and well...*sigh*.

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Yup, and as I said in the same topic in OP post:

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Originally Posted by Mikhaill

Aether's Twin Adder almost always loses. This will force people to move to the other two and game will also become imbalanced.

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I'm not changing GC's but damn.

Never liked pvp, but still did my best every game... Was actually starting to enjoy it as bard too, being actually useful... No point doing it anymore though, well, good riddance I guess :/

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Originally Posted by ItaruKarin

Never liked pvp, but still did my best every game... Was actually starting to enjoy it as bard too, being actually useful... No point doing it anymore though, well, good riddance I guess :/

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For leveling it is not worth it anymore...back to doing the roulette at 70 only for free daily tomes. I just did my roulette from yesterday actually...and 1/3 of my team was just half afking at the start or base. I also killed at least 5 afk players as well (all on Mael not that that means anything though, lol.)

Well if my 28% winrate is anything to go by as an Aether Adder in frontlines, looks like its back to Palace of the Dead for me despite trying my best every match.

I don't normally post here, but I have to say I don't think SE thought this one through.

This change does not discourage AFKing, in fact, it encourages it.

Previously, there was not much of an incentive to win other than PvP XP and wolf marks, but at least it was tiered with 1st 2nd and 3rd place wins. This ensured that no matter who was in first place, the remaining two teams could battle for second place and still get a higher reward.

Now, once a team takes the lead, there is zero incentive for the team in last place to battle for second place. They will still get massively nerfed XP even if they did go from third to second.

The XP goes like this:
1st - 100%
2nd - 70%
3rd - 70%

If you'd like people to actually try to win, and battle for both first and second place, you need to change it to something like this:
1st - 125%
2nd - 100%
3rd - 75%

Otherwise, you're just throwing a wrench into the plans of the 66% that will lose their PvP match.

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Originally Posted by Zish

Previously, there was not much of an incentive to win other than PvP XP and wolf marks, but at least it was tiered with 1st 2nd and 3rd place wins. This ensured that no matter who was in first place, the remaining two teams could battle for second place and still get a higher reward.

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I understand why you'd think that but I think it's actually for the best that both 2nd and 3rd are equal. This is because it sets both teams up to gun for the team in 1st place and allows for the 3rd place team to act as an equalizer of sorts because they gain nothing by dragging the 2nd place team down. On the other hand, if 2nd place did have more, they'd be the most likely team to get double teamed (first place hits them to keep their lead, 3rd place hits them to try and get a bigger reward) and in that way makes the 1st place team's position much solidified.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

This is because it sets both teams up to gun for the team in 1st place and allows for the 3rd place team to act as an equalizer of sorts

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I'm sure that's a nice fantasy, but that's not a realistic expectation of neither most players, nor I'm sure the developers.

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Originally Posted by Zish

I'm sure that's a nice fantasy, but that's not a realistic expectation of neither most players, nor I'm sure the developers.

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You say that, but it's happened pretty often probably because pvp mounts are only from wins. :/

Who is prepared for PvP que times to skyrocket! This lalafell!