Machinist is arguably the biggest let down of a class/job ever to me

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Originally Posted by Georashi

Yes, but at least your book changes.

Also, you get to summon Bahamut. Any complaints on 'not cool enough' are silly. :p

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Sure but now it's ''Omg the dragon is so big and such an eyesore SE please delete'' after many years of ''lolsummoner you can't even really summon anything so lame''.

Funny how that works lol. Granted i've only seen such complaints on the forums which tend to be a lot less representitive of in-game.

We should just face it: We will not get any new skills or meaningful changes to the MCh playstyle in SB. SE has a track record of tinkering with potencies and maybe quality of life, but ratly does something drastic.

That means we can expect either

-tweaks to the potency of skills

or

-adding support effects to already exsisting skills

Personally I'd be all for the latter. Yes a bit of DPS increase would be nice, but SE should double down on support. Why not just lock our support to overheating? Make it that we dispense a Party wide buff while we are overheated. Heck, link it to whatever skill is used to overheat. Like:

Overheating with Hot Shot: Increase Group DPS by XX% for the duration of overheat
Overheating with Spread Shot:Remove the DPS reduction for multiple targets from all skills of the group
Overheating with a normal shot: Group wide, substantial Haste effect

Probably need to put a refractory debuff on the support stuff, otherwise people would just constantly overheating... but just something that would make OH more than just "3rd WF, gonna do it!". Failing that just link some buffs to our Turrets when we blow them up.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Oh this again.

In that case any serious progression group should ONLY have a SAM/RDM/BRD/NIN. Sorry DRG/MCH/BLM/SMN/MNK, no Stormblood for you. Also progression for what exactly? Raids aren't out til tomorrow. Susano, Lakshmi, and Ex Roulettes are so hard, right?

Closed minded thinking aside, any serious progression group is gonna take whatever the hell works for them. I mean unless a terrible BRD is better than a skilled MCH or a RDM who barely knows the job is better than a BLM who knows their stuff 100% of the time.

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The difference between the classes you mentioned and MCH and BRD is very different. Those "unwanted" classes you listed do comparable dps against every other dps except SAM (Because SAM is designed that way), whereas MCH brings much less utility and much less dps to a fight and has almost the exact same playstyle as BRD. BRD fullfills MCHs role much better and is behind in DPS massively.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Oh I remember it very well. I remember all the "No MCH" PFs. I remember the fingerpointing from my own static/FC when it came to inability to clear things (which ironically was more on our MT's poor CD management/timing rather than any damage deficiencies MCH had then). . .

I also remember how when things changed, MCH was in high demand, but hard to find. I was one of perhaps two well geared endgame MCH at that time (and unfortunately the only capable, as the other was geared via paid clears) Call me petty, but it was nice to refuse the people who once tried to bar me from parties.

All that to say I'm not gonna suffer any "No MCH" nonsense right now, but if people want to overreact that way, I can wait. I remember what happened last time.

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then you clearly have not seen the bigger picture The current MCH is FAR worst state then it was during HW early terrible days. Do not try to play it off.

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Originally Posted by SaintK

The difference between the classes you mentioned and MCH and BRD is very different. Those "unwanted" classes you listed do comparable dps against every other dps except SAM (Because SAM is designed that way), whereas MCH brings much less utility and much less dps to a fight and has almost the exact same playstyle as BRD. BRD fullfills MCHs role much better and is behind in DPS massively.

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And you still don't get what ThirdChild_ZKI said --> nothing's mandatory for now, everything is way too easy anyway.

Serious people should actually be good enough to be aware of that. If they aren't and believe they have to get optimized to have a chance to succeed mean they are not that good after all. And if it's all about gaining one minute for a clear, just lol, better enjoy the class you play. It's not like BRD was going to change a run of 5minutes with the MCH. Only people who would enjoy to make the best timer record would have a good reason to be that optimized for the current content.

Thank you. That's exactly what I'm saying.

If we're talking world first, cutting edge, speedrun comps, yes what you play matters. But seriously - and I'm calling all players out on this one - How many people are in world first-level groups? How many even care? Because seriously, if THAT is what matters, then like I said, if you're not playing SAM/RDM/BRD/NIN, you're wasting your time.

But such isn't the case, and it'll NEVER be the standard. Someone wants to arbitrarily bring a BRD over me as a MCH, purely for the job alone? Fine. I hope the BRD has the raid awareness I do, the reflexes I do, the ability to think on their feet, adapt, not panic, and perform as well as I do - good kit or not. Because if they can't. . . well, therein lies the humor. It's easy to look at the tools and judge the craftsman, but let's not act like people haven't done more with less before.

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Originally Posted by Shhikasan

then you clearly have not seen the bigger picture The current MCH is FAR worst state then it was during HW early terrible days. Do not try to play it off.

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I'm not playing anything off. However I have yet to find something I couldn't do in game so far, even with the problems MCH currently has. The problems I know will get fixed. The sky is not falling, and where MCH is now, I've been there before. I got nothing to worry about.

Instead of whining or complaining about where the job is now, I'm instead pushing to learn to work with it. You do the best you can with what you've got. Can I do what I did before? No. But if and when the inevitable fixes come, will I be in a better position? Hell yes. Can you say the same for someone who just bandwagons the "favored" job? Maybe, but maybe not.

I'm trying really hard to relearn (?) The class. The over heat mechanic is just so clunky. I don't claim to be amazing at the game so any help would be nice. Should I only overheat when I have wildfire? Is it a big loss if I don't always sync those? Also I'm not 70 yet, is flame thrower as clunky as it seems? Just from reading it it seems to be. Amd lastly, do you ever actually explode your turret?

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Originally Posted by Meta-Flare

I'm trying really hard to relearn (?) The class. The over heat mechanic is just so clunky. I don't claim to be amazing at the game so any help would be nice. Should I only overheat when I have wildfire? Is it a big loss if I don't always sync those? Also I'm not 70 yet, is flame thrower as clunky as it seems? Just from reading it it seems to be. Amd lastly, do you ever actually explode your turret?

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Personally I Overheat for Wildfire, but only if I know I have Barrel Stabilizer or Flamethrower to help ramp myself back up to 50 heat. It works for me, so don't take that as me saying do it. Try it if you like, but if you find it's no good for you, don't do it. Flamethrower - according to the patch notes just got a slight fix, but the potency/usefulness is still in question. And currently Turret Overload just doesn't seem terribly useful.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Personally I Overheat for Wildfire, but only if I know I have Barrel Stabilizer or Flamethrower to help ramp myself back up to 50 heat. It works for me, so don't take that as me saying do it. Try it if you like, but if you find it's no good for you, don't do it. Flamethrower - according to the patch notes just got a slight fix, but the potency/usefulness is still in question. And currently Turret Overload just doesn't seem terribly useful.

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Thanks. Kinda what I was thinking would be "optimal." I was also thinking of trying over heat with a wild fire at the start... Then ramp right back up to overheat asap amd then pop barrel to get back to 50 and pop heated shots. Try to front load as much as possible. Then go to a "normal rotation" of trying to sync them. It sounds kinda ok but I haven't tried it yet obviously since I'm not 70. What do you think?

I personally wouldn't push Overheating so much, rather sustain above 50 but below 100 heat values until your tools/CDs line up properly then push into it and make full use of it, especially because you'll have to suffer the damage penalty after. Without the full 70 kit, or at least Barrel Stabilizer however, this is much more difficult and should be kept to a minimum. If anything, sustained heat management is higher priority than Overheat bursts (currently)

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I personally wouldn't push Overheating so much, rather sustain above 50 but below 100 heat values until your tools/CDs line up properly then push into it and make full use of it, especially because you'll have to suffer the damage penalty after. Without the full 70 kit, or at least Barrel Stabilizer however, this is much more difficult and should be kept to a minimum. If anything, sustained heat management is higher priority than Overheat bursts (currently)

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Thanks! I want to fully grasp it. I want to make this class work for me.

That's the spirit, my dude! Do the best you can with what you got. :D

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

If we're talking world first, cutting edge, speedrun comps, yes what you play matters. But seriously - and I'm calling all players out on this one - How many people are in world first-level groups? How many even care? Because seriously, if THAT is what matters, then like I said, if you're not playing SAM/RDM/BRD/NIN, you're wasting your time.

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This is always a rather... unfortunate argument. "Your dps doesn't matter because you don't raid with 1%ers". You might as well ask "why do you care about job balance" for all the good this does with anything. People who put in effort should see a proportionate return. Some people seem to delegitimize that for whatever reason. Naturally I don't mean you.

As MCH we should all work together to provide the best feedback possible about whatever problem we perceive to be there is and leave it to Square's balancing team to iron the rest out

I agree with you on that. What I don't agree with is the usual community overreaction that leads to things like "No [job]" PFs and doomsaying for a job that, yes, needs fixes, but is not so bad, SO unusable that everyone should just put it down, exclude it, and go find or level a Bard. Especially after all I'd seen in the Heavensward era, nothing is so absolute. This is why where some may overreact and be willing to abandon their favorite job (had a friend ready to stop playing WHM before SB for similar reasons and they turned out just fine) I'm literally sticking to my guns here.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

(had a friend ready to stop playing WHM before SB for similar reasons and they turned out just fine)

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Admittedly, what was shown with WHM early on did NOT leave a good impression.

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Originally Posted by Frowny

Admittedly, what was shown with WHM early on did NOT leave a good impression.

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No, but no one should ever feel like they'll absolutely have to stop playing a job they enjoy or are good at simply because it's out of favor, and especially based on community overreaction.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

No, but no one should ever feel like they'll absolutely have to stop playing a job they enjoy or are good at simply because it's out of favor, and especially based on community overreaction.

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There was no overreaction when people were smashing their faces into A3S.

It's so dad that it's so bad

I hope they buff Overheat enough that it's always a DPS gain if Wildfire is available.

It's kind of silly that the mechanic isn't even worth using until higher levels due to how much of a DPS loss you suffer without Barrel Stabilizer and Flamethrower to build heat quickly.

Every MMO must have a loljob, It's the 2nd Law of MMORPG.

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Originally Posted by Kupo_Nut

Every MMO must have a loljob, It's the 2nd Law of MMORPG.

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Haha, but in a way, I thought FF jokes were supposed to only be things like Wedge and Biggs, Gilgamesh, Chocobo/Mog as summons and stealing people in their own house while saying nothing :p We don't even have that stupid good hearted ally like Steiner (FFIX), Zell (FFVIII), Wakka (FFX) ^^

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Originally Posted by Meta-Flare

The guns are ugly.

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This, I will not deny, I even agree with, but:

The Makai Hand Mortar looks like an actual handgun
http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/p...8.png?20170706

Sadly it does not fit with the new running animation or while its on the back.
But at the very least, it helps me like the job considerably more.

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Originally Posted by Fannah

We don't even have that stupid good hearted ally like Steiner (FFIX), Zell (FFVIII), Wakka (FFX) ^^

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If you consider blatant racism and bigotry light-hearted :^)

The weapon designs have long been a point of contention for me. MCH is supposed to be the job using the cutting edge technology of its time, but were stuck with "antique" firearms, revolvers, muskets, questionably thin-barreled pistols, and other oddities of firearm design.

As a gun lover, I do like the carbine-based design of our job symbol (and to that, why are there so few stocked eapon designs for us?), and the knifelocks are as "gunblade" as we'll likely ever get, but I say less antiques, more Deathlocke. Give us GUNS. Fantasy-tech guns. MAGITEK firearms.

I love the MCH aesthetics, personally. I'm also a fan of the new heat gauge mechanic, but I'm not a fan of how overheating works currently. Having to reapply Gauss Barrel after lockout instead of resetting to 0 heat is a royal pain in the arse.

Additionally, I rarely use Flamethrower for anything other than quickly gaining heat if I make a mistake in my rotation and accidentally overheat when Barrel Stabilizer is on cooldown. I know I should be using it to bump me up to 90 so that I can maximize my Wildfire rotations, but doing so just feels clunky.

Overdrive begs the question- why even? I constantly forget that it exists. I only use it at the very end of a fight or when trying to push a phase before a long transition, and even then I wonder why I bother with it.

So yeah, aside from the new abilities and terrible DPS, MCH is still my favorite job to play. SE just needs to retool the way some abilities work and increase our DPS and I'll be completely content.

That's the same thing I do, but I've been told it's a bigger loss than Hot Shot x5. I won't say NOT to do it, just putting that out there.

As far as changes, what if after an Overheat, you don't lose the 5% from Gauss Barrel, you just can't generate heat for those 10 seconds? This was inspired by BRD's Raging Strikes (10% for 20 seconds, but they have no +5% normally). This would still call for selective, planned overheats, but with less penalty after. When compared to BRD the biggest issue - more than utility or whatnot - is that BRD's kit has no conflicts, and no hesitation in using what you've got when you've got it. MCH is constant concern of risk/reward, with stifling penalties for using kit resources or accidents.

Overdrive needs to do more for a forced 30 second penalty.

Bring back Lead Shot, OR add a DoT to Cooldown. We're literally purging heat from the barrel. Why isn't that a burning damage over time?

I like the way you're thinking here. I'm all for that kind of tweak to GB. Dropping it completely seems wholly unnecessary.

Overdrive needs something to make it more lucrative. I'd rather they just remove the penalty entirely, or at least make Overdrive apply some sort of debuff to the target(s) after use to more than compensate for the DPS lost.

I've always felt that an ability with the name "Wildfire" implied a fire raging out of control, not just a delayed explosion. I wouldn't mind a DoT mechanic added to WF, but your Cooldown idea sounds great, too. I'd rather they not bring back Lead Shot. I missed it at first, but now that we have so many other new abilities, I don't really want even more to throw in my rotation.

Why did they nerf so much. Surely they can see the numbers..

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Originally Posted by Heimdalgc

Why did they nerf so much. Surely they can see the numbers..

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After 2.0 WAR and 3.0 WM for BRD, I wouldn't be surprised by anything xD

Not arguably. It is

actually i disagree. they did hell of a job on the new optics of his skills. i simply love them and i am machi main from the beginning always forever no matter where he stands.
pros are: playstyle is way more fun and needs a bit of thinking where to use what. the overheat mechanic is great and i wouldnt change a thing.
cons are: no utility. they really should give him some utility such as a haste buff for the group. bards have it all. dmg needs a tweaking.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Bring back Lead Shot, OR add a DoT to Cooldown. We're literally purging heat from the barrel. Why isn't that a burning damage over time?

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good point. great question. solid balancing fix for next patch.

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Originally Posted by photometrik

I'd rather they just remove the penalty entirely, or at least make Overdrive apply some sort of debuff to the target(s) after use to more than compensate for the DPS lost.

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i'd vote yes for a 10-15 second Vulnerability down debuff. unless that's too OP >.>

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Originally Posted by chs724

cons are: no utility. they really should give him some utility such as a haste buff for the group. bards have it all. dmg needs a tweaking.

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Don't want it don't need it. BRDs were designed to be a more efficient supporter. We were designed for more personal damage. We don't need extra utility.

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Originally Posted by Elnidfse

We were designed for more personal damage. We don't need extra utility.

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my gunarm is crossed hoping the next patch makes this bill a law.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Bring back Lead Shot, OR add a DoT to Cooldown. We're literally purging heat from the barrel. Why isn't that a burning damage over time?

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i would like a burning dot from cooldown.