I'm enjoying the new WHM >,>

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

Its not RNG when Cure 2 is 100%. adjust how you heal

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TBH I'd rather just not use lilies than make my play worse. Like, you should prob be casting cure 2 over cure now sure, but honestly how many times will you actually need cure 2 if everyone is doing their job?

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

Its not RNG when Cure 2 is 100%. adjust how you heal

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Lmao. Never in a million years is a good WHM going to drastically change their healing style to suddenly incorporate a ton of cures and cure IIs in order to attempt to make use of these awful systems that were tacked onto us. They're better off completely ignored than used at the expense of greater efficiency.

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Originally Posted by Atmora

Still doesn't require a GCD to use embrace though, which is the most important part. How many GCDs does a WHM lose over the course of a fight due to casting regen that SCH doesn't?

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lol whm needs no fairy with the power of its heals and btw Eos has no sustain so it stops to heal her self and also gets hit by mechs due to it just in case you had no clue wich means she is not healing the pt so yeah a lot going there you seem not to know

Yeah WHM is pretty good in 4.0, even though not as distinct or flashy as AST. I feel for SCH, though. Got that to 66 so far. Some nerfing was needed but that job needs to get something back. Anything.

As for WHM, here's hoping Lilies and Confessions get some fun twist :D

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Originally Posted by grumpy

lol whm needs no fairy with the power of its heals and btw Eos has no sustain so it stops to heal her self and also gets hit by mechs due to it just in case you had no clue wich means she is not healing the pt so yeah a lot going there you seem not to know

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you can micro manage Eos' heals so it only heals what you want it to, if you don't at least understand that much you honestly shouldn't voice your opinion on matters of balance. It's also not thatSCH has stronger heals, it's that SCH can use those heals off the GCD, meaning it and its co healer spend less time casting healing spells and more time casting dps spells. One of the most important parts of healer optimization is using GCDs effifiently and SCH is king of that.

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Originally Posted by tinythinker

Yeah WHM is pretty good in 4.0, even though not as distinct or flashy as AST. I feel for SCH, though. Got that to 66 so far. Some nerfing was needed but that job needs to get something back. Anything.

As for WHM, here's hoping Lilies and Confessions get some fun twist :D

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SCH just feels bad to play right now, from a numbers perspective it's fine.

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Originally Posted by MisterLucie

Lmao. Never in a million years is a good WHM going to drastically change their healing style to suddenly incorporate a ton of cures and cure IIs in order to attempt to make use of these awful systems that were tacked onto us. They're better off completely ignored than used at the expense of greater efficiency.

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A cure 2 followed by a shield is hardly a drastic change. Why would anyone spam Cure 1....

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Originally Posted by Atmora

SCH just feels bad to play right now, from a numbers perspective it's fine.

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Yeah I've been leveling SCH and it's not unplayable or terrible, but, if I were auditioning right now as a healer for some reason it would be my last choice.

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Anyway, I'm sure all classes will get adjustments over time based on feedback and metrics collected by the dev team.

[QUOTE=Atmora;4256951]you can micro manage Eos' heals so it only heals what you want it to, if you don't at least understand that much you honestly shouldn't voice your opinion on matters of balance. It's also not thatSCH has stronger heals, it's that SCH can use those heals off the GCD, meaning it and its co healer spend less time casting healing spells and more time casting dps spells. One of the most important parts of healer optimization is using GCDs effifiently and SCH is king of that.[/QUOTE

lol ok man SCH just feels bad to play right now, from a numbers perspective it's fine. peace XD

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

Whm has great raid utility, it's called keeping everybody alive in almost any situation, mistakes included. Do they boost dps? Yep! I have people on my raid team that are so comfortable with my healing output that they can ignore certain mechanics. So my WHM utility is confidence, my team doesn't worry about staying alive so they can focus on their dps or trying to kill our raid leader with mechanics. I say try because I can usually keep them alive through most of it, but not all. ;)

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As can both its counterparts. Healing is not a utility because there is little White Mage can do Astro or Scholar cannot. They all simply accomplish the same thing differently. You act as those either of White Mage's counterparts would somehow struggle when Astro does just about everything White Mage can while simultaneously buffing the party. Job balance shouldn't be based around people being idiots and standing in aoes. When people refer to utility, they mean benefits unique to those jobs, i.e. Cards and Shields-- neither of which White Mage offers. It's only competitive right now because Scholar got beaten into the ground. Neither comes close to Astro's dominance.

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Originally Posted by grumpy

whm never had mana issues just bad players play whm and dont know how to heal with whm or want to spam holy and still have mana to heal get real plus Eos was nerfd btw

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If you healed and DPS'd, yes it did. No matter how good you were, White Mage simply couldn't sustain its MP pool throughout 3.x. At least not over an extended fight.

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Originally Posted by tinythinker

Yeah I've been leveling SCH and it's not unplayable or terrible, but, if I were auditioning right now as a healer for some reason it would be my last choice.

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Anyway, I'm sure all classes will get adjustments over time based on feedback and metrics collected by the dev team.

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As a raid lead I actually prefer and have been looking for a SCH although flexibility is by far the most valuable thing for a healer.

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Originally Posted by Atmora

As a raid lead I actually prefer and have been looking for a SCH although flexibility is by far the most valuable thing for a healer.

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OK, but to be clear I'm not trying to speak for all healers. I've been working on readjusting to SCH (haven't played in a while) but still have a ways to go. :p So when I need to try my best right now WHM is what I default to :)

If you healed and DPS'd, yes it did. No matter how good you were, White Mage simply couldn't sustain its MP pool throughout 3.x. At least not over an extended fight.[/QUOTE]

that is true with that said i did see many whm take the dps route over the fact that the team needed heals plus usually if you had a whm you would take a brd along that is true holy drained a ton load of mp but the spam of it was a bad player choice also being aware of your mana management heal the team or dps i dps if i feel the party can handle me not healing for a moment but not to the point i have very low mana for the party but yes that was is an issue

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Originally Posted by Atmora

As a raid lead I actually prefer and have been looking for a SCH although flexibility is by far the most valuable thing for a healer.

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it is if you notice i was actually speaking of the issue with the pet and its sustain ability being removed and the fact that whm is actually a real strong healer sch is number 1 in shields as whm in my opinion is fairly strong on heal power i don't know anything about astro as i have yet to even get it past the 30s so i cant speak on that job

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Originally Posted by grumpy

sch is number 1 in shields as whm in my opinion is fairly strong on heal power i don't know anything about astro as i have yet to even get it past the 30s so i cant speak on that job

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SCH is #2 in shields. #1 squarely belongs to Nocturnal Sect Astrologian.

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Originally Posted by HyperSMB

SCH is #2 in shields. #1 squarely belongs to Nocturnal Sect Astrologian.

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true forgot about that dam they did sch dirty

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Originally Posted by NefarioCall

Yes, i was not pleased when i found out the Lily's were attached to bum spells... aaand i still think the system would work better if other spells like Regen at least offered a chance at Lily's, but the whole thing is smoother than i expected, and in concept, i actually enjoy the job more than i did in HW.

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That's wonderful to hear.

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Originally Posted by NefarioCall

But in all, i'm pleased with it. The WHM cool downs are strong, and shortening the recast timers sometimes feels like it can border on super healer power breakage when the Lily's are maximised perfectly ... even if the DPS is a bit lower.

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It's working better than I felt it would, too, but I still don't quite like the feel of the job as much.

For instance, damage-dealing just feels boring without Cleric's Stance. I know, I know, people hated it with good reason - especially the potential to turn it back on again accidentally if you were rapidly clicking to turn it off - but it made dealing damage feel like more of a judgment call for me, rather than an automatic mindless thing. I miss that.

I also intensely dislike the focus on spamming Cure spells in a fight. Prior to 4.0, I felt like I could generally maintain fights with proper preparations (Regen, Asylum, Medica II, used at appropriate times), leaving me free to survey the battlefield for damage opportunities, movement mechanics, random status effects, or the occasional spot cure. Now, I'm having to spam Cure II constantly, simply because tanks take a lot of damage now with the new content. That's not as compelling to me, from a gameplay standpoint.

But, yes, I agree, the Lily system is working better than expected for me. It is worth noting, however, that Plenary Indulgence is almost entirely useless, and the Lilies II Trait at 68 didn't change the feel of the job in the slightest. Basically WHM's improvement ended for me at 66. So despite being "better than expected", SE still screwed the pooch in a lot of ways.

I also echo the feelings of many when I say I miss my Virus, Stoneskin, native Esuna and Protect, etc. There was no reason to remove those, and given the number of DPS Role abilities that involve damage mitigation, there wasn't a lack of replacements in the Role system. All in all, I'd give SE a C- when it comes to the 4.0 changes for WHM. I expected a big fat F, so this is an improvement, but I'm not getting near the excitement from the 61 - 70 abilities that I did from 51 - 60.

WHM now has higher potency heals than any other healer class by a good amount, which is nice given their lack of utility.

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Originally Posted by Sleepyjo2

There was more to that message than simply a low health tank. Low health is fine until your tank dies because you wouldn't spend a gcd to put a heal on them. Should make sure you understand the message before you reply in a condescending way.

There's no reason to let your tank float at 20% for more than a couple gcd at most, by the way. You're risking death from autoattacks at that point, particularly with multiple enemies.

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except that this guy has posted more than once in the past how he (and his g/f ofc, lol) find healers who let their tanks drop below 50% regularly, LAZY.

So before you comment on my comment ,you should make sure you know all the circumstances.
He's one of the "omg pls always keep us above 90% health" guys.

Also,thanks for your advice. Who would've thought that a tank could die to multiple adds when he stays at 20% health for too long? Mindblowing.

(because no one said to "keep" a tank at 20%,but rather it was about letting your tank "drop" to 20% before you heal up to maximise your dps window before you heal up with CDs etc)

Im enjoying new whm but PI just feels odd to me. the RNG of it is maybe a bit too low. Sometimes I'm very unlucky in this game. Like you wouldnt believe unlucky. Idk how to really convey it just feels like a wet noodle for White Mage ability at 70. I'm curious how viable it will or wont be in raids.

I think if i got a say in the ability i would like it to be: Keep the low RNG but I get the confession, it would be visible on my gauge, and then use it for this ability. Sometimes its a lot to look for in a flash battle and I thought the whole point of this gauge stuff they pushed on everyone was so there was less looking about. PI seems to go against this idea they conveyed to us. Sometimes I cant see the confession pop.. other times im seeing other whms confessions and im fumbling thinking i have some. It sometimes feels like more of a distraction from my job.

And completely off the PI topic.. it feels like we have alot less buttons then other healers now.

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Originally Posted by UltimateGohanSs

I have question.Why are they deleted water spell from Conjurer and WHM?Thanks :)

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Haven't noticed an answer to this, so allow me: they haven't? Fluid Aura? It's still there.

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Originally Posted by Atmora

TBH I'd rather just not use lilies than make my play worse. Like, you should prob be casting cure 2 over cure now sure, but honestly how many times will you actually need cure 2 if everyone is doing their job?

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have you not seen the new dungeons? Tanks lost foresight the defence 20% increase so they take more damage. A drk alone only has 2 defensive buffs + parry boost.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

except that this guy has posted more than once in the past how he (and his g/f ofc, lol) find healers who let their tanks drop below 50% regularly, LAZY.

So before you comment on my comment ,you should make sure you know all the circumstances.
He's one of the "omg pls always keep us above 90% health" guys.

Also,thanks for your advice. Who would've thought that a tank could die to multiple adds when he stays at 20% health for too long? Mindblowing.

(because no one said to "keep" a tank at 20%,but rather it was about letting your tank "drop" to 20% before you heal up to maximise your dps window before you heal up with CDs etc)

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learn 2 healer. :) but sure. My g/f wasn't the only tank I've seen it happen to. Please adjust to the changes instead of wasting everyones time.


it wasn't a couple of adds either, it was the last boss in castrum albania the 1 with tank buster+ bleed. the AST wasn't curing or removing bleed. So maybe you should read first. And ya. keeping tanks @ least 80% is better, more so in latter dungeons. But you supposedly quit ff14 because heaker, at least that what you said before launch lol.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

well, cant really help it if healing is impotent, can we?





obligatory quote is obligatory. :D



Oh, and also, letting the tank drop to 20% is perfectly fine. So please stop talking about stuff you have no idea about. Ty <3

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I know what I'm talking about, I tamk as well. Leaving a tank @ 20% ho on the final boss of castrum albaini (w/e it spelled) is idiotic. Since the 50% hp tank better which has a bleed effect. Tanks lost foresight, so no more defence boost. And drk only have 3 defensiv e cd.

May not wanna comment On stuff you don't know about. And your just iching for me to report ya, on harassing me over something pretty minor.

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Originally Posted by MisterLucie

Lmao. Never in a million years is a good WHM going to drastically change their healing style to suddenly incorporate a ton of cures and cure IIs in order to attempt to make use of these awful systems that were tacked onto us. They're better off completely ignored than used at the expense of greater efficiency.

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I don't get this and I've been playing WHM since 2.0. The whole point of the gameplay systems changing between expansions is that it changes the playstyle of the job. You can manage with the 3.0 playstyle, but in my opinion, it's a worse playstyle than the 4.0 one.

My opinion is WHM is fine. Powerful healer, decent dps, plenty of tools to control mana, lilly system is fine. My only grip as many of you have said is with the level 70 skill, P.I., it's just a bit useless. I do use it when I see it, but really don't see any benefit for this skill to exist.

I like it a lot better too. Feels way more fluid now that the clunky stance dancing is gone.

All they need to do now is rework lilies cause they're easily ignored, get rid of god awful Plenary Indulgence and replace it with utility. Maybe slightly nerf MP regen? I literally don't have to think about managing it cause it's so easy to always stay near full.

And maybe get a better looking Stone 4? It looks like I'm summoning Minecraft blocks... it's so ugly to me.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

learn 2 healer. :) but sure. My g/f wasn't the only tank I've seen it happen to. Please adjust to the changes instead of wasting everyones time.


it wasn't a couple of adds either, it was the last boss in castrum albania the 1 with tank buster+ bleed. the AST wasn't curing or removing bleed. So maybe you should read first. And ya. keeping tanks @ least 80% is better, more so in latter dungeons. But you supposedly quit ff14 because heaker, at least that what you said before launch lol.

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I don't know if Albania has a Castrum. That said, it's probably the less experienced healers who need to "learn 2 healer." It's entirely possible to let a tank's HP dip while still being able to keep them alive through heavy hits. WHM has a couple emergency buttons, after all.
And maybe you should leave the healing to the healers and talk down a little less.

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Originally Posted by mooferz

And maybe get a better looking Stone 4? It looks like I'm summoning Minecraft blocks... it's so ugly to me.

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I would actually like to summon Minecraft blocks, and I don't even play it.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

learn 2 healer. :) but sure. My g/f wasn't the only tank I've seen it happen to. Please adjust to the changes instead of wasting everyones time.


it wasn't a couple of adds either, it was the last boss in castrum albania the 1 with tank buster+ bleed. the AST wasn't curing or removing bleed. So maybe you should read first. And ya. keeping tanks @ least 80% is better, more so in latter dungeons. But you supposedly quit ff14 because heaker, at least that what you said before launch lol.

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yeah, while you whine on the forums about how you and your gf get victimized everywhere you go in DF, I beat savages and ex primals as a healer - while dpsing. While the tanks sometimes drop low in health because tankbusters etc.
And you wanna tell me learn 2 healer? Honestly? Your whole understanding of the game and lack of experience exactly SHOWS here. It's normal that tanks get low....just as its normal to heal them up quickly too. It's really easy to get them up to full health too, because you can prepare for everything in this scripted game: a fact you still dont seem to have grasped. I did read your post but I'm not exactly referring to "that one AST", im talking in general. There's a couple of bosses where you can end up with low HP.
Does it matter`? Nah, cos its so easy to heal up ppl quickly. I'd also suggest YOU start reading because you quoted me explaining how its not about KEEPING them at 20%,but rather that its ok to let them DROP down to 20% before you heal up again.
I'm very convinced you are wasting more people's time than me. Because I still do good damage on my healers while keeping everyone alive.
So LOL @ your 80% health logics.

Would you also be so kind to find me the post where I supposedly quit ff14? Because I dont remember ever saying anything like this.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

I know what I'm talking about, I tamk as well. Leaving a tank @ 20% ho on the final boss of castrum albaini (w/e it spelled) is idiotic. Since the 50% hp tank better which has a bleed effect. Tanks lost foresight, so no more defence boost. And drk only have 3 defensiv e cd.

May not wanna comment On stuff you don't know about. And your just iching for me to report ya, on harassing me over something pretty minor.

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from all the stuff I've read from you up until now, I am pretty convinced you DONT know what you are talking about. Playing a class doesnt mean you know what you're talking about. or else no one would ever complain about ice mages and ruin mages
or about tanks who dont know what cooldowns are...because, hey, they're playing the class so they have to know what theyre talking about,right? For reference: you only have drk at 60, I have all 3 tanks at 60 at least.

"Since the 50% hp tank better which has a bleed effect." <--- Sorry, I cant make sense out of this phrase,hence I cant comment of it.

Foresight was a pretty crappy CD btw. DRKs also have different means other than defensive CDs to mitigate incoming damage properly, so when they really need a defensive CD, they should have them ready.
I have already seen a few good and sturdy drks in SB. Also: healers have CDs as well. I dont need to spam cure II to keep a tank topped at all times. This may be the time to tell you "learn 2 healer/tank".

And there we go again with the victimizing. If you are ANYTHING ingame like you are on these forums, I am not surprised how you and your gf keep getting "harassed" and kicked everywhere.
Please feel free to report me, I honestly dont care. Because this indeed something pretty minor and ridiculous.

I wont respond to you anymore though. So safe yourself the effort and time to reply.

From what I am seeing, WHM are still good powerful healers and they are popping off their cooldown abilities a lot more often then I am used to seeing. Not to mention the big increase in the amount of holy bombing.

Meanwhile on AST I am missing stoneskin, and am annoyed by the fact that my Synastry was split into 2 abilities. Why should I have to burn 2 90 sec cooldowns to get the effect of what used to be one cooldown?

When it comes to DRK is just do not feel like playing it. I lost my dodge tank combo, I lost my extra 20% damage reduction I could rotate with Rampart to try to maintain a decent amount of damage reduction at all times. It just feels... squishy, weak, and incomplete right now.

My issue with the Lilies now is they just don't feel particularly rewarding. 4% is utterly worthless. For reference sake, that is...

Assize: 60 -> 58
Tetra: 45 -> 44
Asylum: 90 -> 87
Benison: 30 -> 29

I mean, seriously. The highest value there is three seconds. If they want to make cooldown reduction a primary attribute for White Mage, the values simply have to be higher all around. 50% might be pushing it, however White Mage in PvP just feels so much better. I'll admit, it's better than what we saw during the media tour but there is still plenty of room for improvement.

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Originally Posted by Kaelah

Haven't noticed an answer to this, so allow me: they haven't? Fluid Aura? It's still there.

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cool then,thank you :)

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

-snip-

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I'd agree with giving WHM Esuna back, since for me, it's annoying to swap when it's needed. I think it is kind of an insult that they basically took everything WHM had and put them in cross role.

As someone who started playing WHM recently, I'd say Esuna is optional. Like it's necessary for some dungeons, but a lot of them you just don't need it, so I don't take it in those situations.

I say I really do like Divine Bension, but it means I need to cast Cure II and the target needs to be missing HP (which means double WHM doesn't work out too well, especially with Plenary Indulgence), so I have to prep a Lily first basically. I know Stoneskin was somewhat weak but I still liked it. Because outside of Divine Bension, there's not much I can do for tankbusters except just heal through it.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

My issue with the Lilies now is they just don't feel particularly rewarding. 4% is utterly worthless. For reference sake, that is...

Assize: 60 -> 58
Tetra: 45 -> 44
Asylum: 90 -> 87
Benison: 30 -> 29

I mean, seriously. The highest value there is three seconds. If they want to make cooldown reduction a primary attribute for White Mage, the values simply have to be higher all around. 50% might be pushing it, however White Mage in PvP just feels so much better. I'll admit, it's better than what we saw during the media tour but there is still plenty of room for improvement.

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4% is just for one Lily. You get 10% for 2 Lilies and 20% for 3. I tend to wait for 3 most times unless it's an immediate need.

I'd hardly call it the "new" WHM. WHM is basically the same as it was in HW, but with some additional bonuses.

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

I'd agree with giving WHM Esuna back, since for me, it's annoying to swap when it's needed. I think it is kind of an insult that they basically took everything WHM had and put them in cross role.

As someone who started playing WHM recently, I'd say Esuna is optional. Like it's necessary for some dungeons, but a lot of them you just don't need it, so I don't take it in those situations.

I say I really do like Divine Bension, but it means I need to cast Cure II and the target needs to be missing HP (which means double WHM doesn't work out too well, especially with Plenary Indulgence), so I have to prep a Lily first basically. I know Stoneskin was somewhat weak but I still liked it. Because outside of Divine Bension, there's not much I can do for tankbusters except just heal through it.

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You're not supposed to heal through debuffs, you're supposed to clean them, but the amount we can heal tends to favor healing through debuffs instead of removing them because the debuffs don't last long enough, and don't do nearly enough damage (poison.) It's actually more useful in PotD because the debuffs there last a minute.

Divine Bension isn't Stone Skin. Stone Skin lasted until enough damage was taken to drop off. Divine Bension drops off after a set time, like AST/SCH 's Nocturnal Sect/Galvanize. I would have been fine with Stone Skin being changed to act that way if the cast time was made instant, or could be party-cast like Aspected Helios during the fight. Instead we lost our only Shielding equivilent's to Nocturnal Sect/Galvanize, and because it was stackable it made WHM the perfect complicment to AST or SCH.

Note that the developers wanted to remove protect entirely, but Yoshi-P veto'd that. I'm actually thinking the developers tried to weaken WHM in as many ways as possible because without the cleric stance curse, it was too powerful.

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Originally Posted by Arixtotle

4% is just for one Lily. You get 10% for 2 Lilies and 20% for 3. I tend to wait for 3 most times unless it's an immediate need.

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They are aware, the first lily was used as example. The 20% for three lilies is slightly better, but still horrible considering the investment cost. All three percentages need to be buffed substantially for the lily system to actually be competitive. Ultimately though, the lilies aren't even WHM's problem... Plenary Indulgence is. Pretty much don't even get a button at level 70.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

You're not supposed to heal through debuffs, you're supposed to clean them, but the amount we can heal tends to favor healing through debuffs instead of removing them because the debuffs don't last long enough, and don't do nearly enough damage (poison.) It's actually more useful in PotD because the debuffs there last a minute.

Divine Bension isn't Stone Skin. Stone Skin lasted until enough damage was taken to drop off. Divine Bension drops off after a set time, like AST/SCH 's Nocturnal Sect/Galvanize. I would have been fine with Stone Skin being changed to act that way if the cast time was made instant, or could be party-cast like Aspected Helios during the fight. Instead we lost our only Shielding equivilent's to Nocturnal Sect/Galvanize, and because it was stackable it made WHM the perfect complicment to AST or SCH.

Note that the developers wanted to remove protect entirely, but Yoshi-P veto'd that. I'm actually thinking the developers tried to weaken WHM in as many ways as possible because without the cleric stance curse, it was too powerful.

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Yeah the only time I really felt I needed Esuna was a certain A rank hunt that kept putting poison on a random person. I had to spam Cure II to outheal that. And yeah in PoTD Esuna was really really useful.

I see what you mean. Yeah I heard about Yoshi fighting to keep Protect. Hmm, well, here there are people arguing that Protect is "invisible, boring and completely indistinguishable from gameplay in which protect doesn't exist". I think it's still useful since it's free mitigation for 30m even if it is 6% or something, compared to Tenacity, which requires giving up your materia slots for it.

I'd feel more appreciative of the Lily system if it affected potency rather than cooldown time. It still feels... lacking though. Like the job needs something more that sets it apart from the other two healers. With what we have now it's just the generic Kroger healer nobody really wants.

And I know it's not uniquely WHM, but playing it for a couple dungeons, the seamless transition between healing & DPSing is nice. Though I do still catch myself trying to stance dance a lot.