ffxiv royal menagerie trial Normal

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Got it in a trial roulette, and it was the easiest 1 shot. (and still see it occasionally, all of which has been easy as of late, now that more ppl know the fight)
People like to argue omega normal is easier, but i still see people wipe to omega, and I see this fight being easier.

Its a fight that requires knowing mechanics, not a fight of skill.

You cant know mechanics until you either do it, or studied a video.

The ONLY kind of nerf that could be reasonable, is more transparency on conveying what to do, even if u hadnt done it before. (and the main offender is done on purpose, since he started with tsunami in the FF5 version to wipe ur party as a surprise attack.)

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Id say laki extreme is easier than the msq trial , which while I dont say nerf it , but It seems kinda confusing to me that a normal mood trial is harder than an extreme primal.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

People like to argue omega normal is easier, but i still see people wipe to omega, and I see this fight being easier.

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I've yet to see a single wipe in Omega, at least non-Savage. I'm talking Omega Normal here. Haven't tried the Savage. I've seen a few deaths, but no wipes. And that's the thing, the bosses give you plenty of time to recover, or simply just let the dead body lay on the ground after the 3rd time they die to the same mechanic. You'll still win, easy.

Omega is just a loot pinata and its challenge is as such, other than maybe Exdeath. And Exdeath only requires at least common sense knowledge.

EDIT: And keep in mind, I'm a casual player who is calling Omega a loot pinata.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

I've yet to see a single wipe in Omega, at least non-Savage. I'm talking Omega Normal here. Haven't tried the Savage. I've seen a few deaths, but no wipes. And that's the thing, the bosses give you plenty of time to recover, or simply just let the dead body lay on the ground after the 3rd time they die to the same mechanic. You'll still win, easy.

Omega is just a loot pinata and its challenge is as such, other than maybe Exdeath. And Exdeath only requires at least common sense knowledge.

EDIT: And keep in mind, I'm a casual player who is calling Omega a loot pinata.

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Did you do them with a group of 7 new people who never seen mechanics on day1?

Each boss most groups saw 6-8 wipes until they learned them. most of the groups complained it was too hard for a normal mode.
It was all the same thing I heard in Shinryu.

Once you know mechanics, a fight is easy.
When you have more new people than not, a fight will be harder.

Go in with a group of people who know the fight, and have cleared it before, you'll see just how mind numbingly easy it is now.
I can pretty much afk the fight, and we'll still win with no deaths or any issues.

Also, Im not a very skilled player, so im not exaggerating. People dont quite notice just HOW much a difference it is when ppl know a fight, vs not know it.
Its night and day.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Id say laki extreme is easier than the msq trial , which while I dont say nerf it , but It seems kinda confusing to me that a normal mood trial is harder than an extreme primal.

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While Lakshmi is easy, it requires way more experience than shinryu.
You need to plan out positions, etc.
Shinryu, all u have to say is "OT stand next to MT" and theres no need for any more coordination from there.
(Unless you count, heal ppl hurt, hold hate on adds, as unique mechanics that require a reliance on others.)

In groups who have cleared lakshmi before, i still see wipes 1 in 4 groups. (and that group wont clear, ever)
In shinryu, get a group of ppl who have cleared, and ull never see a wipe.

EDIT: just did the fight again, 4 people new, 1 shot, no deaths. Thats a total of 5 1 shots, no deaths, with duty finder, having 50% or less people new.

For what it's worth, on day 1 of it being released I did duty finder all four levels of Omega normal and each group one-shot (no wipes) all four stages.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Did you do them with a group of 7 new people who never seen mechanics on day1?

Each boss most groups saw 6-8 wipes until they learned them. most of the groups complained it was too hard for a normal mode.
It was all the same thing I heard in Shinryu.

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Even after people are experienced with Shinryu, even with most of the party having cleared the fight before, you still see wipes on Shinryu.

I have still yet to see a wipe, 12 Omega bosses later.

Oh wait. Sorry, there was one wipe. Halicarnassus. We had an exceptionally derpy pair of tanks who had no clue as to how to position her when she does the 4 floor panel thing and wound up cleaving the whole raid trying to stand on their correct panels.

And one of them proceeded to try to school us to stand behind her instead of in front of her. Ummmm.... how can we stand behind her, but yet stand on our plates when she's facing the plates?

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Originally Posted by Maeka

Even after people are experienced with Shinryu, even with most of the party having cleared the fight before, you still see wipes on Shinryu.

I have still yet to see a wipe, 12 Omega bosses later.

Oh wait. Sorry, there was one wipe. Halicarnassus. We had an exceptionally derpy pair of tanks who had no clue as to how to position her when she does the 4 floor panel thing and wound up cleaving the whole raid trying to stand on their correct panels.

And one of them proceeded to try to school us to stand behind her instead of in front of her. Ummmm.... how can we stand behind her, but yet stand on our plates when she's facing the plates?

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her frog cleave random targets a person usually DPS, so they cant position her for that...

ive yet to see a single group wipe to shinryu. occasionally i see 1 or 2 ppl die mid fight, but never a wipe.
(im now pretty much doing the fight like 2-3 times a day)

Omega on the other hand, i still see the occasional wipe, probably 1 in 10 or 20 runs.

Personally i cant think of a single mechanic shinryu does, thats hard to deal with.
Everyone says its hard, but yet cant specify.
While in omega, thinsg like v1 ice, mixed with stacking aoes, and ground aoes moving when u dont know the patterns yet is very confusing to new people.
ok, v2, never seen a wipe before, probably the easiest.
v3 people getting frogged or not while other aoe/mechanics go out later in the fight, leading to multitasking more than some ppl are used to.
v4 having a hard time dealing with void vs not void, while avoiding orbs, and trying to stay placed for knock backs, and within range of aoe heals. usually multiple things at once.

shinryu almost has no over lap in mechanics until the end, where the 2nd mechanic is his tail, which can be ignored, as the punishment is just less dmg done to the boss.
stand "near" the middle, but not IN the middle, ans ur golden.
from there its "get away from AoE". and like with most cone attacks, its easier to dodge if ur closer to the boss.
make sure u have room to move, if panels are missing.

there's nothing really hard about it.

I agree with the OP -- This fight needs a nerf. Far to many Bads are able to get carries on this fight and then go into omega and ex primals expecting more carries thus ruining those groups too. The difficulty of this content needs increased as people gear up so that we can gate content and keep the chattel from disrupting the enjoyment of others who try to complete actual challenging content!

I agree this fight is great, but I live in NZ, so with ping I have I can not do this fight at all, time between me and server does not give me time to move out.
On my screen I have, but I die, even when I per run out I die, I so don't what it Neff, but would like I little more time to move, or I should fly to where servers are do it

Honestly, I don't think the fight needs a nerf. I mean if the fight was an absolute pushover it would've been very disappointing as Zenos whooped WoL's ass on two separate occassions. Also, it would've lead to people screaming "TOO EASY!"

I was terrified to do the fight as a healer. I fucked my team over two times because I kept dying to mechanics-and you know what? So did everyone else. It was a tough fight to heal through especially when 6/8 of us were new to the duty. My group managed to clear it after dying 5-6 times.

People moan and scream nerf too much on these forums. I would've loved to see how they handled RDM Maat and SCH cap fights in 11 lol

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

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It isn't any single mechanic, it's how long the fight is (much longer than the Omega fights) and how low the margin of error is for each single attack, and how deadly each single attack is.


Several of them kill you instantly either directly or by proxy -- they either knock you off the platform (instant death) or are like the fist pound (damage high enough to insta-kill a healer or DPS barely geared for the instance). The Tail slaps are almost as bad, and again, insta-kill if the platform was already cracked and they didn't notice the subtle indicator (which can be hard to see in such an intense fight).

Sometimes his dives across the platforms are painted in a way that they are physically impossible to move out of before he does it depending on where you were standing before he chose to do this, so you either eat it or get pushed off (again, instant death).

With all the spells and effects going off, there's an instant or near-instant death possibility during the adds phase -- Meteors+Death Sentence is pretty much a guaranteed kill on the tank and/or anybody else caught in it and sometimes it is difficult to see the marker for that too with all the other markers on the ground for the meteors.

There's the Earth Attack where Shinryu paints 2 people... if those 2 people are derpy, they get the entire raid caught in the blast with no chance of escape (making it so that 1-2 players can cause a wipe by not doing something right is kinda ridiculous in a fight that's mostly meant to be Q'd for with randoms) depending on where they happened to be standing when the thing paints the AoE area.

There's just so many attacks that will either insta-kill you, or put enough hurt on you that healers just can't keep up with it sometimes. That's what makes Shinryu more difficult than Omega bosses -- it's just AoE after AoE after AoE after AoE with hardly any time in-between to recover if a few people make a mistake. Shinryu requires all 8 people to be on their game pretty much, or very close to it. You could maybe get away with a derpy DPS who lays on the ground dead most of the fight, but if you get a 2nd... chances are, unless the remaining two are entirely awesome and over-geared, you're not gonna make it.

And God Forbid one of the derpy people be a tank or a healer.... then you're just done, period (assuming you're not at like 5% health or something remaining). A 320+ healer could maybe handle that, maybe. But certainly not one who is 280-300.

And also, those cheap auto-attacks on 2 random people in the raid no matter where they are I think are the icing on the cake. Wholly overkill. Even if you do barely survive some AoE... chances are, you're dead before a healer can get you healed because of the stupid Auto-Attacks which tend to land <1sec after major AoE attacks.

If the mechanics are done properly the fight is pretty easy

I see people are starting to learn that the hardest part about this level of play is communication and teamwork ;)

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Originally Posted by Maeka

I've yet to see a single wipe in Omega, at least non-Savage. I'm talking Omega Normal here. Haven't tried the Savage. I've seen a few deaths, but no wipes. And that's the thing, the bosses give you plenty of time to recover, or simply just let the dead body lay on the ground after the 3rd time they die to the same mechanic. You'll still win, easy.

Omega is just a loot pinata and its challenge is as such, other than maybe Exdeath. And Exdeath only requires at least common sense knowledge.

EDIT: And keep in mind, I'm a casual player who is calling Omega a loot pinata.

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The reason why omega might be easier is because everyone there has the ability to clear shinryu.

Remember that sprint is a free action now, and it really helps with getting out of aoes if you're having trouble.

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Originally Posted by PK_THUNER

The reason why omega might be easier is because everyone there has the ability to clear shinryu.

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*facepalm*

I already replied to this, at least twice in this thread already. I'm not going to type it again.

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Originally Posted by PK_THUNER

The reason why omega might be easier is because everyone there has the ability to clear shinryu.

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Omega is easier because it doesn't have more than maybe one or two instant kill mechanics. There is plenty of time to recover from non-instant kill mechanics as well. Meanwhile, Shinryu has something half a dozen instant kill mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

It isn't any single mechanic, it's how long the fight is (much longer than the Omega fights) and how low the margin of error is for each single attack, and how deadly each single attack is.

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This is probably the best answer I've been given, as it's not that each mechanic is hard, but that the number of times peopel can do something right, before they do something wrong is higher in longer fights.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

Several of them kill you instantly either directly or by proxy -- they either knock you off the platform (instant death) or are like the fist pound (damage high enough to insta-kill a healer or DPS barely geared for the instance).

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I wasnt a very geared DPS, and being a squishy, Id have to say almost every attack "nearly" killed me, except those that are knock offs.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

The Tail slaps are almost as bad, and again, insta-kill if the platform was already cracked and they didn't notice the subtle indicator (which can be hard to see in such an intense fight).

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Personally the red ground with glowing cracks is pretty noticable, with the exception of 1 point near the end, where the tail comes out when you're trying to dodeg another mechanics that glows brighter. (Though I dont see the floor break in that one.)

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Originally Posted by Maeka

Sometimes his dives across the platforms are painted in a way that they are physically impossible to move out of before he does it depending on where you were standing before he chose to do this, so you either eat it or get pushed off (again, instant death).

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While this is sorta true, there are exceptions, such as heading to the middle when he flies away, so you'll be ready. (Along with sprint activated before you see the AoE)
But that type of reaction is a bit on the difficult side, so I can see this as semi difficult. (Though most ppl have vuln from this, rather than getting knocked off, as u would have to head the opposite direction of shinryu, and be somewhat close to an edge to get knocked off, as the push back isnt very strong. I'd say its like a 1 in 10 chance of actually killing someone, in a single fight, from push back.)

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Originally Posted by Maeka

With all the spells and effects going off, there's an instant or near-instant death possibility during the adds phase -- Meteors+Death Sentence is pretty much a guaranteed kill on the tank and/or anybody else caught in it and sometimes it is difficult to see the marker for that too with all the other markers on the ground for the meteors.

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I actually did find this to be the hardest part of the fight, but I'd say its within reason, especially since its so short.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

There's the Earth Attack where Shinryu paints 2 people... if those 2 people are derpy, they get the entire raid caught in the blast with no chance of escape (making it so that 1-2 players can cause a wipe by not doing something right is kinda ridiculous in a fight that's mostly meant to be Q'd for with randoms) depending on where they happened to be standing when the thing paints the AoE area.

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incorrect. no matter HOW badly they position it, there is an EXTREMELY easy way to dodge it anyways 100% of the time. All bosses with massive cone attacks have the same strategy, get as close to the boss as possible (the origin of the cone) as there is little distance you actually have to move, to dodge. If you're nearly touching him, you can literally be in the middle of 2 cones on both sides, no safe zone in the middle, and barely tap a direction, and be out of both cones, by simply moving less than an inch in game. (This is a very useful tactic to remember for all fights with Cones!)

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Originally Posted by Maeka

There's just so many attacks that will either insta-kill you, or put enough hurt on you that healers just can't keep up with it sometimes. That's what makes Shinryu more difficult than Omega bosses -- it's just AoE after AoE after AoE after AoE with hardly any time in-between to recover if a few people make a mistake. Shinryu requires all 8 people to be on their game pretty much, or very close to it. You could maybe get away with a derpy DPS who lays on the ground dead most of the fight, but if you get a 2nd... chances are, unless the remaining two are entirely awesome and over-geared, you're not gonna make it.

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this is where I agree the issue starts to get bottlenecked. The healers have very little time to revive everyone, or face the possibility of getting slamed themselves, or letting the tanks die. The main trick to this that always works in 2 healer set ups, is to have a tank healer, and a raid healer. while the raid healer cant possible rez everyone, this can make sure the healers survive long enough to get to a point they can rez someone. (I honestly dont know if this fight has an enrage. ive heard ppl claim it, but when i surpassed that point, the fight carried on anyways, with 2 healers, 2 tanks, and me as the sole DPS, and we slowly went the rest of the fight. But if there really is an enrage, then I can see this being an issue) Personally I say just turtle the fight, its easier that way. (My 1st clear, as RDM, i tried to rely on the healers 3 times, but then said F it, and solely healed/rezzed, only attacking when there was no one to heal/rez, which was barely ever, as they refused to listen to where to stand, but thats when we won, slow and steady, turtling.)

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Originally Posted by Maeka

And God Forbid one of the derpy people be a tank or a healer.... then you're just done, period (assuming you're not at like 5% health or something remaining). A 320+ healer could maybe handle that, maybe. But certainly not one who is 280-300.

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While this is pretty much true, they shouldnt really be going on to endgame if they cant perform the basic function of "rampart TB" or heal the MT/OT for TBs. (Which is the minimal requirement, as im fairly sure they can win a fight w/o DPS, but it would take for ever, like my group did my 1st time)

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Originally Posted by Maeka

And also, those cheap auto-attacks on 2 random people in the raid no matter where they are I think are the icing on the cake. Wholly overkill. Even if you do barely survive some AoE... chances are, you're dead before a healer can get you healed because of the stupid Auto-Attacks which tend to land <1sec after major AoE attacks.

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I'm actually not too familiar with this. The only time I remember being hit with auto attacks, was if one of the tanks were dead. But I may be wrong on this. (if this is true, I would actually agree on this part, and would think this is the only part that really needs changed, based on the difficulty the fight should have, in comparison to the rest of endgame.)

The boss automatically attacks the two people with the highest agro, which should be the tanks. That is why when one of them is dead, you suddenly take auto attacks.

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Originally Posted by Blanchimont

The boss automatically attacks the two people with the highest agro, which should be the tanks. That is why when one of them is dead, you suddenly take auto attacks.

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It automaticcally targets tanks actually. If there are less than two tanks alive, it targets whoever is on top of the enmity list though.

3 groups and countless wipes later... I finally got it done.

I think I shortened my life by 20 years after all this stuff :)

These thread amuse me. You guys do know that every single mechanic in this trial is one you have seen before, right? The chains? The vault. Ahk Morn? Waaay back when Bahamut coils were a thing, and more recently, Nidhogg. Ice floor? Shiva. Etc. it is literally throwing nothing new at you..it's just throwing it at you all at once...in a sequence...that you can memorize...and plan for. *throws hands up in the air*

This is like the people who are new to a dungeon, get to a boss, pause for a minute, then ask: "So...anything I need to know?" No...you idiot. Avoid yellow spots...like the entire friggen game...now get in there, and hit the thing.

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Originally Posted by RuleofThree

These thread amuse me. You guys do know that every single mechanic in this trial is one you have seen before, right? The chains? The vault. Ahk Morn? Waaay back when Bahamut coils were a thing, and more recently, Nidhogg. Ice floor? Shiva. Etc. it is literally throwing nothing new at you..it's just throwing it at you all at once...in a sequence...that you can memorize...and plan for. *throws hands up in the air*

This is like the people who are new to a dungeon, get to a boss, pause for a minute, then ask: "So...anything I need to know?" No...you idiot. Avoid yellow spots...like the entire friggen game...now get in there, and hit the thing.

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Except when someone, somehow dies for whatever reason people are quick to jump on the bandwagon of flaming said person for not asking questions. It's precisely for this reason people do ask in the first place.

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Originally Posted by RuleofThree

This is like the people who are new to a dungeon, get to a boss, pause for a minute, then ask: "So...anything I need to know?" No...you idiot. Avoid yellow spots...like the entire friggen game...now get in there, and hit the thing.

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Yeah, im going to agree that this isnt the best attitude. "Avoid the aoe" is a "strategy" that works maybe 75-80% of the time, but there are fights where you need to do more. There are some fights where you can ignore adds, other fights where they need to die as soon as you can get them. You need to keep an NPC alive in one fight to avoid a wipe. Theres a boss who hits you with a big attack(that can combo off a second hit to kill you outright) if you dont stop fighting and stand still for a couple seconds. You need to grab the right elemental buff during a fight in castrum abania. Every boss in gubal library(story mode) has at least one oddity to look out for. So yeah, i have no problem with someone asking if there are mechanics for a boss fight. If there arent, it takes a second or two to type "nothing special".

I beat the Menagerie before the game officially released, everyone had the i290 gear with some i300 accessories and some lv 69 accessories. We one defeated in one pull, it was fun and it actually made me think. Please don't nerf it SE

I run this trial quite frequently, sometimes I just queue up for it on purpose, because I am that bored. And as I have stated at the beginning of this topic, I don't think it needs any nerfs and I am still having the same opinion. However I find quite often people, that can't be bothered to either ask if they are new, or prepare aka reading/watching a guide. Nor can they be bothered to read the chat, I do know that not everybody can reply due to being on ps4 and not having keyboards but how difficult can it be to read. Well let me answer that question, it can be extremely hard apparently lol.

The other day, tank bailed right at the start of the roulette, other tank wanted to wait. I said let's just pull at least we get some practice in, I can solo heal that trial therefore I wasn't very concerned about the other healer being new, half of the dps being new, and the MT not sharing Akh Morn. I did say, if somebody has a question please ask before we pull. Nobody said a word. Alright tank says let's try. Tidal wave goes up, and we know that's the first 5 second (with amazing dps) up to first 2 minutes of the fight (with horrible dps) but nothing else really happens till then. Guess what, I end up standing all by myself on the platform. So I said, did we try because it didn't look like it. And every body was saying they tried. Next pull and the pull after same thing. New tank joins, and he starts explaining the mechanics from the last phases, so I responded with that we didn't even made it further then the tidal wave. Despite the fact that I did not just explain it via chat, I did also put up markers, went to the spot ahead of time, even used emergency to get the last person in front of the wave etc. He bailed, I then left too.

Reason I am saying this, again that fight don't need a nerf, but it needs people that can read a chat. If I say walk to the right, don't run to the left or all the way to Limsa, performing a back flip while cracking nuts with your butt cheeks and then blame me for not keeping you "alive". Might as well jump right off the platform at the beginning and get it over with lol. As long as people "try" to beat the trial this way, we will always have the debate of nerfing that specific content, I just hope that nobody listens to them. It would be sad, if that's the case, because normally even with new players in the group, or even full groups of new players, we always beat it. Sometimes it might take a pull or two, or even four but at least you can see the progression in those players, and that's what matters to me at the end. Having taught groups how to do the mechanics is something I am very proud off. But I am not proud of having carried people through the trial, that couldn't be bothered to even do some kind of research or read a simple sentence.

Sometimes I feel sorry for people in need of a clear. I always have 'join in progress' option checked so i often find myself joining only to find 2-4 people sitting there and looking sad.

I have done this trial on 3 different characters right as I hit 70, the first during early access. I have never seen a wipe to this boss. Is it really that hard?

Really? My guess is geared people are not running it because there is no incentive. Give those free mateial 6 tokens and people will run it

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Originally Posted by Veliena

I have done this trial on 3 different characters right as I hit 70, the first during early access. I have never seen a wipe to this boss. Is it really that hard?

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It's not that it is hard. It's that a good portion of people just don't seem capable of doing things with mechanics involved, thus making it seem harder than it really is.

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Originally Posted by Aniond

Really? My guess is geared people are not running it because there is no incentive. Give those free mateial 6 tokens and people will run it

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I run trials roulette like 5 times a week. This fight shows up there. I try to join PF groups for the fight. So im getting bonus points, and some extra tomes when i que the roulette. Feel free to give me more if you want, ill take it. But im not sure its necessary.

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Originally Posted by Aniond

Really? My guess is geared people are not running it because there is no incentive. Give those free mateial 6 tokens and people will run it

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Then you'll just have people farming it in PF and not going near the DF at all, so people still can't get the clear they need.