Please do not nerf the final boss

Don't be silly. There is always more room for lots more nerfs and simplification.

Didn't expect anything to require any effort, or not get complained about until its nerfed into not requiring any at all, did you? :O

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Fair point, but I have to ask, why would it be designed with this challenge in mind in the first place? It's not unintentionally challenging, it is mechanic vomit that echoes the power of the boss.

Thordan was faceroll, so was Ultima weapon, but for some reason the devs decided to make this one require a pulse and that seems very deliberate, and nerfing it into the ground undermines that point, just like steps of faith. People had no issue with Ultima weapon and thordan being faceroll because they were that way by design, however this boss is different and I'd like the devs to keep to that.

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Ultima definitely wasn't a faceroll at launch. A lot of groups couldn't meet the DPS check. Thordan obviously was. And again why keep it this way? It's casual content. There really is no reason to.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

the boss is casual. Just because you can't dodge doesnt mean it's hard. Yawn

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Oh look another wonderful, sterling example of our lovely community. I also love the implication that I'm whining like I haven't cleared it already or something.

Why don't you go complain that raiding is too easy or something and then get slapped by Alexander and then cry about it being too hard or something? That's what your kind does right? Yawn.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

It's not hard, you just have to pay attention. Just because it's not a striking dummy like Thordan was doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. It's the perfect difficulty honestly.

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The amount of posts complaining about it I've seen everywhere and in game say otherwise. I didn't realize you were the utmost authority on perfect difficulty balance. Also can you find where I personally said the fight is hard? I can't seem to find that part.

I'm very happy with the difficulty, please keep it.

There are two types of players:
- Good players who know what to do but can't down it because of bad players.
- Bad players asking for nerf because they refuse to learn basic mechanics.

Which category do you fall under?

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Originally Posted by RaizeGraymalkin

The amount of posts complaining about it I've seen everywhere and in game say otherwise. I didn't realize you were the utmost authority on perfect difficulty balance. Also can you find where I personally said the fight is hard? I can't seem to find that part.

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You're saying it needs a nerf, that implies that you believe it is too difficult. I'm not the "utmost authority" on diffficulty balance, but I have played a lot of games, and this one in particular a lot. This fight, compared to a majority of things, is not hard. A lot of the people complaining about it being too hard either are used to fights like Thordan or being over geared for fights, or they're pointing out things like the QTE of the tail aoe being somewhat difficult to see (which are two actually valid points.)


Or they're dps complaining about their queue times and how people leaving because they don't feel like trying outs them back in queue, which isn't the fight's fault.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

The royal menagerie is one of the best fights I have played in a while, and I love it.

SE, if you have any sense, please consider keeping this fight as is and using it as a means to prepare players for the harder content at endgame.

The fight is by no means hard, and is as I would expect from a final boss.

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This. My party was blind and we wiped a ton, but we still cleared it. It was a thrill I've not had in a long, long time.

I'd love to keep this difficulty and even increase it a bit. But.....we all know deep down that this is going to happen...as well as we know the reason but choose to forget it....and that reason is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWiRwIw_hFA

Shinryu was only a challenge for me on sch because people tend to scatter to the four winds whenever there's an aoe marker on the floor. I think that will improve as people run it more often.

I really agree that this shouldn't be nerfed. It's an actual challenging fight even on the casual level.

I'd actually say the long solo instance you have a few quests back or so was more difficult than the final trial fight.

Please don't nerf it. It's been far too long since I've done a fight that had me shaking afterwards..while it is a MSQ, that doesn't mean it has to be so easy to the point you can barely pay attention and still pass it.

ppl asking for a nerf are mostly from balmung and omega (EU gathering baddies new server). Looks like delete omega will soon go together with delete balmung lol.
On a side note go, try, wipe and retry if u are discoraged go play hello kitty, these players have bad attitude, want everything easy and made this game too easy like most of the games nowadays.

That's not how it works. Old content is made easier so new players have a chance to catch up. That's the modern model and Square is committed to sticking to it.

well.. I havent done this boss yet, Im still 1st SB Quest(Im still not motivated to do SB-Story after all these class nerfs and no option to turn off annoying battle/fate music and quest/fate jingles... -.-) But: if its one of these '1time only and never again' Bosses like Vishap and Niddhoggr, I would leave at once too <.< I dont like that '1 player their misstake can wipe entire party" gameplay. There are still people out there atking King Mog 1st or not triggering the switch at Leviathan fight. Sometimes I really wsh I could get Story NPCs or my Squadrons as my team mates >_>;;

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Originally Posted by RaizeGraymalkin

The "it's a final boss" excuse needs to stop. It's MSQ aka casual content.

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I like my final bosses in my Final Fantasy games to feel like a final boss since the journey is preparation to beating the big bad with your entire toolkit.
I haven't reached the final boss yet but I'm just going to assume the ones complaining are aether players...yet again.

Git gud, pretty much.

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Originally Posted by Headhunters

Looks like delete omega will soon go together with delete balmung lol.

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I'm just glad I don't share a datacenter with either of those abominations!!!

Honestly, I loved it. More so that I feel I got to put RDM to a real test having to help revive, share MP with healers, all while staying within a high DPS margin (got 4 commends from that fight). I will say it is hard but only to those who physically can not react in time or those who do not pay attention to markers or past fights...or if you skipped with a potion only to get smacked by past primal attacks and have zero idea what to expect. Ice floor for example. :3

I really hope this stays as is or we at least see an EX version if they do dumb it down.

They don't need to nerf the boss but need to add way heavier rage quitter penalty, like 2 hours. After waiting the DF queue for a full hour I'm calling it quits for the night.

Our lives are at the mercy of prima donna

In typical video game conventions since the days of old, the final boss is, nearly all of the time, the most challenging boss of the campaign for obvious reasons. In Stormblood, The Royal Menagerie, being the final boss, also happens to be the hardest boss of the MSQ. So in other words, Stormblood is just following standard video game conventions, like most other games, new or old. What exactly is the problem here, again?

The final boss doesn't need to be nerfed, nor should it. After the curbstomping that is Ultima and King Thordan, The Royal Menagerie is the first FF14 final boss that truly felt like a real final boss battle to me. If you're having trouble, learn the mechanics of the fight and practice. If you don't understand what "mechanics" are to begin with, spam Bardam's Mettle over and over again until you can clear the second trial comfortably. If you keep failing even that, well, what else can I say but "git gud?"

I just wanted to add my praise in that the final boss was freaking fantastic. Even though the mechanics are super easy getting 8 people to do them right was not; we finally beat him with 8 minutes on the clock. Super satisfying, would fight a boss like that again.

I like the difficulty as it is. People asked for Ozma nerfs and they didn't touch it at all, so I doubt that the final boss will be nerfed either.

It's a dead fight and it will be nerfed the queue time is dead

And consider how it kill so many causal player they will have no choice but to nerf it so the causal can finish the story in the near future when literally no body queue for that crap lol

It give little to no reward

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

They don't need to nerf the boss but need to add way heavier rage quitter penalty, like 2 hours. After waiting the DF queue for a full hour I'm calling it quits for the night.

Our lives are at the mercy of prima donna

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A penalty that's twice the duration of trial time limit? Don't be absurd, people will just log out when they get it. Unless you're suggesting you attach a two hour penalty to people who actually might DC in an instance due to actual accidents. Thirty minutes is a fine penalty.

It will probably get Echo once the next major main story stuff comes out.

Balmung and Omega hating is definitely something I don't understand, but hey, we all have our mental issues, I guess.

Still, I really liked this fight, to the point that anytime someone in a Linkshell asks for help, I'm always helping... And this far, I've had little to no issues. On about twenty kills, I got only two parties that couldn't make it in 30 minutes. So maybe, the whiners could use some focusing, and maybe the hardcore players could be more mentor-ish... Granted, as a PLD, I'm healing and protecting quite much, and thus easing healer's jobs (which is really the hard part of the fight), but motivating people and keeping everyone calm is as important in savage for hardcores as it is in this fight for casuals.

So... Git focused, casuals, and git mentorish/Raid-leaderish, hardcore players. That's a good opportunity to get casuals to try and do harder content, and for hardcores to have fun playing with them, so let's not waste it.

I agree. It is a good difficulty, all the mechanics should have been experienced before and at this point you should have at least a shred of raid awareness or how to handle mechanics. The fight is not hard. That's not to say, perhaps a jump potion player joins in which it may be a bit hard for them but it falls on the party to explain things when someone obviously doesn't know what to do. If they are not receptive to help then that is their problem, not the parties, not SE's, no ones but themselves and as such they should have to try again. If the party doesnt want to work with someone who is obviously struggling... well just shame on them. Bad sportsmanship, it's called a "party" for a reason; mingle a little bit.

IF SE wants more people doing end game content, I feel the smartest thing to do would be to not touch this fight at all. Dont coddle them, but make them feel accomplished. this makes me think back to when I was working on Titan HM for my relic. I spent a good portion of a week trying to get that fight and every bitterness I felt was amplified happiness when I finally got that clear. It only made me want to get that next rush all the sooner. Maybe that was just me though.

I do not agree to the "It's MSQ so it's casual content" point. No, it's MSQ and MSQ must have a Final Fantasy feeling. And the final boss of a Final Fantasy must be epic and quite hard. The difficulty of the fight is participating in the epicness of the situation.
SO I agree with the OP, do not change anything. The MSQ should be the best way to SE to learn to people (or to remind for those who forget / rush / and so on) how to play correctly and prepare them for the harder content.

The first group I ran with was a pug party finder group. We went in blind.

After the first wipe we rallied, adjusted, and proceeded to beat the boss without much difficulty, or death. It wound up being an enjoyable fight.

Ever since then it has been endless wipes, undergeared bare minimum ilvl 280 players. People who refuse to move out of aoes. People who refuse to obey the markers on their head resorting in the entire floor is an aoe that could have been placed on the edge of the damn map. I was trying to help FC members get through it and managed to help get one of our tanks through it. Since then its just been a wipe fiasco.

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Originally Posted by Yasuhiro

I like my final bosses in my Final Fantasy games to feel like a final boss since the journey is preparation to beating the big bad with your entire toolkit.
I haven't reached the final boss yet but I'm just going to assume the ones complaining are aether players...yet again.

Git gud, pretty much.

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My favorite is people responding with "git gud" which:

A) tells me they are 9 years old

B) assume I haven't cleared it, which I have

C) this isn't even the damn final boss. It's a damn MMO. There is NO final boss until the whole thing is complete so even that stupid example I see countlessly holds zero merit.

Wait...actually scratch all that...you haven't even DONE the trial yet? EL OH EL.

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Originally Posted by Tinibou

I do not agree to the "It's MSQ so it's casual content" point. No, it's MSQ and MSQ must have a Final Fantasy feeling. And the final boss of a Final Fantasy must be epic and quite hard. The difficulty of the fight is participating in the epicness of the situation.
SO I agree with the OP, do not change anything. The MSQ should be the best way to SE to learn to people (or to remind for those who forget / rush / and so on) how to play correctly and prepare them for the harder content.

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You must be new to Final Fantasy. Most of the final bosses in the series are fucking push overs. Also this is an MMO not a single player entry in the franchise. So yes "it's just MSQ" perfectly applies here. I'm gonna laugh so hard when it happens (and you all know it will happen). And if it doesn't hell if I care, because I'm well past that point anyways.

I don't see the devs nerfing it because people will overgear it later anyway, and also because (for now) the devs may want to have it act as a sort of soft gate to harder content without outright saying that it's a straight up gate.

People always wanted to subject everyone to pass a competency check before going into more hardcore type content, like some games have. Here's your competency check, except this time it also involves adapting to how the other party members behave too.

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Originally Posted by RaizeGraymalkin

Tell's me that they are 9 years old

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Projecting much?

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Wait...actually scratch all that...you haven't even DONE the trial yet? EL OH EL.

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Yeah, looking forward to it actually seeing what the big fuss is about. It's probably not even hard, since it's "casual content" and it's the Final Boss of Stormblood until patch 4.1 comes out and so on. Can't wait to clear it first try and be right about aether players crying like always.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Ah it works with spacebar?

That should be widespread knowledge

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It works with pretty much any key or button as long as you're not typing in the chat box at the time -- Yoshi-P wanted it to be very accessible. You can do creative things like alternate keys, or play mock piano symphonies on your keyboard, if mashing a single button would cause discomfort.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

It works with pretty much any key or button as long as you're not typing in the chat box at the time -- Yoshi-P wanted it to be very accessible. You can do creative things like alternate keys, or play mock piano symphonies on your keyboard, if mashing a single button would cause discomfort.

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Hitting a, z and d with my left hand, I don't even have to change my position... But it is true that many people still think they have to click only...

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Originally Posted by RaizeGraymalkin

You must be new to Final Fantasy. Most of the final bosses in the series are fucking push overs. Also this is an MMO not a single player entry in the franchise. So yes "it's just MSQ" perfectly applies here. I'm gonna laugh so hard when it happens (and you all know it will happen). And if it doesn't hell if I care, because I'm well past that point anyways.

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I am absolutely not new to the serie, I played nearly all of them, at least the numeroted ones and some of the spin-offs.
I must say you're right in some point because when you spent dozens of hours doing all the sidequests and you're over-leveled, the final boss is not that hard. I emphasized a bit earlier. But well, it does not really change my opinion.

I don't see why they need to nerf it. They need more fights of this difficulty in the MSQ, who says the MSQ can only be faceroll content?

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

It's a dead fight and it will be nerfed the queue time is dead

And consider how it kill so many causal player they will have no choice but to nerf it so the causal can finish the story in the near future when literally no body queue for that crap lol

It give little to no reward

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Ok, so heres an idea, because reckless nerfs are bad design and are bad for the community as a whole:

Instead of nerfing the fight, add a good reward. Currently the reward for beating The Royal Menagerie is 10 verity, that is it, and you are right, nobody is going to run it for 10 verity. Let us compare this to two other instances, Ala Mhigo (80 verity*) and Lakshmi/Susano EX (15 verity* + gear each), looking at these fights I would request that rather than nerfing the encounter, put the reward up to 35-40 verity* per run, OR have a daily quest in which you do the fight and get 100 verity* for your trouble. This would keep the content from dying, and allow new players to get through it with the help of more experienced player who as time goes on will overgear the fight and bring the difficulty down at a natural pace.

*Verity will be replaced with the new tomestone in savage patch and numbers will be adjusted accordingly.

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Originally Posted by RaizeGraymalkin

And again why keep it this way? It's casual content. There really is no reason to.

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You are still yet to answer my question, instead filling the thread with vitriol. I will ask you again, the fight was clearly intended to be this difficulty, why would the devs do that if it was supposed to be casual and faceroll?

Why keep it this way? Because the devs designed the fight this way and a lot of people enjoy it. And too many times has good content been nerfed so that the lazy can sleep their way through it, and I am making a stand to end that horrible design practice.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Why keep it this way? Because the devs designed the fight this way and a lot of people enjoy it. And too many times has good content been nerfed so that the lazy can sleep their way through it, and I am making a stand to end that horrible design practice.

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I agree with you on this. I pretty much enjoyed everything in the expansion, for me it was incredibly fun to have new content with a few added ideas. It's a shame that Yoshi-P and his team design this wonderful content for us and all some players do is complain about it. Personally, I don't want epic faceroll/easy peasy content all the time because what's the point of playing it or paying for it?

Also, I find some of the people complaining about the QTE amazing, aside from the people who have legit medical reasons, as this game requires you to push buttons to perform rotation and then the one time you have to press a button to survive nobody wants to. Once you get passed that one QTE the fight is basically dodge AOE, kill the tail add, run away from each other when you get chained and dps the boss. Like almost every other fight in this game. Everyone can even SPRINT off of an AOE as it no longer consumes your TP.....

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Originally Posted by RaizeGraymalkin

Most of the final bosses in the series are fucking push overs.

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Yeah, and Royal Menagerie is keeping with that trend.

With regard to your "no final boss" statement, how can you argue that he ISN'T the final boss of 4.0? The game doesn't actually have an end, sure, but Royal Menagerie is very clearly the final boss of 4.0, just as Final Steps of Faith was the final boss of the entirety of the 3.x series.

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Originally Posted by missybee

Yeah, and Royal Menagerie is keeping with that trend.

With regard to your "no final boss" statement, how can you argue that he ISN'T the final boss of 4.0? The game doesn't actually have an end, sure, but Royal Menagerie is very clearly the final boss of 4.0, just as Final Steps of Faith was the final boss of the entirety of the 3.x series.

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You realize that the patch with Nidhogg was near the end of 3.0 right? And this is at the very start of 4.0 right? This fight is more akin (in terms of pacing) to fighting Thordan. As before you do a final named storyline dungeon, and then a trial right after it. Exactly when you did it against Thordan. There will be another great villain to deal with in 4.0 they will reintroduce no doubt.