THM Nukes

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Originally Posted by Mamba

I already posted this to another thread as well but since this is about THM's I thought it would be good to bring this up here as well.

I played BLM RDM and all other mages in FF11 and before all the new stuff came out I remember going to battles as a mage always carrying s#itloads of ethers, yagudo drinks and ginger cookies with me to keep up with the MP consumption. So far culinarian and alchemy hasn't been very "needed" crafts so maybe this will be their chance to actually start providing something people will need constantly.
A mage without ginger cookies in 11 many times got a boot in exp party and I kinda liked that you had to take care that you were well prepared if you wanted to nuke etc.

I don't know what foods there are nor how well you gan get your MP back with ethers so I apologise if I am completely wrong with this.
Also... I am in UK so I haven't experienced the nuking etc. yet as the update ended in AM my time and I am work this whole day... Come on time, go faster!!!! lol

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yeah its been posted that Ethers are only really useful as emergency buttons since they have such a low MP regen and such a high recast. so, not very useful in boss fights.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

yeah its been posted that Ethers are only really useful as emergency buttons since they have such a low MP regen and such a high recast. so, not very useful in boss fights.

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Hmm, maybe there will be some new culinarian and alchemy recipes!!! [excitement]

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

i really dont think it would make THM OP whatsoever if they left in Stygian Spikes. even if it were somewhat nerfed compared to before, itd be better than nothing.

its funny how cure went from being over 100 MP to being a quarter of that.

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hey dread, stygian spikes is actually on THMS list. The name is sanguine rite, but it's duration is like a min. It gives decent MP back, but it doesn't last long at all. Wish they had made a trait for that.

THM is pretty decent, but there's a fair learning curve on it for the MP management, could perhaps lessen spell costs just a tad. Now need Mag acc for most mobs. Not rly for moogle though.

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Originally Posted by Lakefingers

THM is pretty decent, but there's a fair learning curve on it for the MP management, could perhaps lessen spell costs just a tad. Now need Mag acc for most mobs. Not rly for moogle though.

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definitely. I think the eras are fine for a combo, but its more efficient to nuke with base spells. I think most people's first inclination is to nuke with higher tiers. Also, stone lowers magic evasion so you can get more bang for your buck.

I think the MP cost/pool was for THM was created with BLM and it's abilities in mind. Also ALC/CUL and GDS are still waiting on their final recipes etc. So it is very possible that we will get refresh foods and items in the future that will aid in this.

That being said, once we get a couple days and different Moogle Battle strategies (others NM's too) I really do think THM will be very useful in the fight. It hasn't even been 24 hours of people attempting it yet. Once we oil the machine and know the best order to kill them, abilities to use etc, and can make the fight quick, I'm sure it'll be 'Bring in the THM army!'

Still hoping for separate mechanic for caster DPS to improve their utility. With damage alone it will be a pain to balance properly, so I wish they'd rather not even try.

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Originally Posted by Baxter

hey dread, stygian spikes is actually on THMS list. The name is sanguine rite, but it's duration is like a min. It gives decent MP back, but it doesn't last long at all. Wish they had made a trait for that.

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And it eats up 200ish MP.

280 i think lol. Along with the tier 3's eating 5-600. A full tier lightning combo goes for about 1.1k mp and does about 2.3k with decent gear so as was mentioned the third chain really isn't worth it unless you need the spike. Still, with such a large mana pool and such high MP costs we really do need something like refresh or convert to keep us doing healthy dps throughout the fight.

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Originally Posted by Lakefingers

280 i think lol. Along with the tier 3's eating 5-600. A full tier lightning combo goes for about 1.1k mp and does about 2.3k with decent gear so as was mentioned the third chain really isn't worth it unless you need the spike. Still, with such a large mana pool and such high MP costs we really do need something like refresh or convert to keep us doing healthy dps throughout the fight.

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im glad there are so many people agreeing on this. its usually so split 50/50. it seems the lack of MP regen options isnt just my own opinion.

i really hope SE adjusts the MP cost since they will not be adding any extra abilities for a long long time.

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Originally Posted by EdenArchangel

Holy. Moley. Kaboom kaboom da boom.

Edit: Let's rephrase that, super booms on everything your level and below, anything 5 levels or above is still laughable.

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Hiii Eden :D
Still waiting for the patch to update. D:
I am so jealous of you right now. D:

Don't know if this has been mentioned here or not but I noticed that Thundara and Blizzara are both instant-cast spells, yet Fira has a 3 second cast time. I'm further confused by the fact that one of the combo bonuses for thundara is a reduced cast time but how can it be reduced further than instant-cast ? ...

Something seems not right here so if dev could please respond if this is a mistake or intentional. If intentional I'd love to hear the design philosophy supporting this.

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Originally Posted by Imoen

Also take into consideration this game will see a console release at some point, and as a developer you can not just assume everyone has a keyboard in their lap. (As unbelievable as that is for you.)

Also take into consideration that as a console player people aren't going to want to drop their left hand off the controller to press the F buttons on their keyboard just because they have one and not everyone with a keyboard will prefer that input method either....

Sooooo I think if there was an option to turn off sub-targeting for those who really are bothered by having to learn new/old (I say new only for those who have never played FFXI) control methods, because it takes way too much brain power and finger pressing practice...and or are just using other methods that render it pointless for whatever their reason... than that would be fine... but to be frank - its not that hard, its not that convoluted (It actually has a place.) and pressing one button more rapidly does nothing considering the game can not keep up with my presses as is - Anyone that can type should be able to handle this without an issue and anyone that has played games should be open to using/learning new controls... however like I said if they want to add an option SURE.

I'll go with whatever they decide to do with it because I am capable of adapting, but I personally disagree. it is one thing I loved about FFXI (YES I LOVE SUB-TARGETING)

Going off on a bit of a tangent, but honestly the AOE toggle wasn't that hard either... Big green button that lit up when it was on, now I just traded one button press for just pressing a different one.

I feel like the next thing people will be asking for is HUGE gaudy portraits that take up a huge portion of my screen real estate for no real gain in functionality. (Excluding mouse users, I can see this being useful but as you pointed out there are F buttons and they do work wonderfully for targeting party members especially with sub-targeting.)

Anyway I'm done going off topic of this thread, if someone makes a "BAN THE SUB TARGET FEATURE" thread you will probably see me over there defending it have a nice day.

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brain power? it shouldnt have to take any.
i have to admit, it is hard for me to believe anyone would play an MMO on a console. But then again i do understand that not most JP people have PCs anyway so for me it really sucks.
the Console delay and billing/online negotiations (360) are my back up for why it should never have been considered for console release anyway and people without a comp would have to just suck it up just like every other MMO.

cannot keep up with your button pushings?
with the current system, since everything is single target now (especially now) i press my spell button and enter over and over waiting for it to go off just as i would as if enter wouldnt have had to be pushed.
repeatedly mashing your spell button until it went off would actually make it easier with the current system because because recast timers are glitched just as they have been for months. mashing would guarantee it goes off the very split second the system finally allows you to. the same as spamming Second Wind until it finally goes off. itd be worse if enter was involved in Second Wind.
Also take into consideration that 2.0 will not have this "animation lock" glitched system that is plaguing the game per Yoshis several interviews.
Also take into consideration that Yoshi himself agreed that not having a fully separate customizable UI for PC was a bad choice from the get go so PC users will have a completely separate UI at 2.0.

so its not so hard to assume the devs and Yoshi himself agree that MMOs is a bit more of a PC thing, theyre just stuck with the reality that JP people dont often have gaming comps and that many FFXI people just dont want to stray from FFXI.
also Yoshi said in an interview that:
"its like FPS games, theyre so many of them and theyre all very popular and seen to be different from one another. one reason why theyre so popular is because theyre control layouts are so similar to eachother. certain things should just not be touched in a genre of games and i think controls are one of them"

I agree, a toggle would be perfect.

I have definitely noticed big booms but I also noticed how fast my MP pool depletes..

My question though is did they remove the Area Effect ability from our spells or moved the toggle? Z key doesn't work anymore. Was a rude awakening trying to kill 3-4 things i was plowing through before and noticing after the 2nd one i had nothing left to fight with (mp wise) lol.

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Originally Posted by Michiko

I have definitely noticed big booms but I also noticed how fast my MP pool depletes..

My question though is did they remove the Area Effect ability from our spells or moved the toggle? Z key doesn't work anymore. Was a rude awakening trying to kill 3-4 things i was plowing through before and noticing after the 2nd one i had nothing left to fight with (mp wise) lol.

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the aoe toggle now has been hammered. check spell description is aoe or no.
namely, blizzara is self-Aoe, all thunders single target and all fire nukes aoe

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

the aoe toggle now has been hammered. check spell description is aoe or no.
namely, blizzara is self-Aoe, all thunders single target and all fire nukes aoe

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Ah!, that would explain it then. Thank you Yuki, I completely gleamed over the obvious :P

My only level 50 combat class and they !@#$ it over once again. I should have know better then to think 3K MP meant something good. Might as well rename Thaumaturge to "Minute-man", cause that's about how long it takes to shoot your 'load'.

Even less useful in Ifrit now, completely useless in Moogle compared to other setups (not saying its impossible, but lets face it...no one beat Moogle first day with 4 THM in their pt...). Enfeebles seem weak and useless. No AoE sleep. CNJ maybe deal less damage but side-by-side the CNJ can keep putting out and has more utility while the THM just stands there twiddling their thumbs.

BLM better be worth waiting for cause I m real tired of the one job I want to play constantly getting the shaft.

Dont forget we still have Job abilities in 1.21. Black Mage gets a convert type ability~

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

Dont forget we still have Job abilities in 1.21. Black Mage gets a convert type ability~

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And let me guess 5 minute recast? Now I can fire off spells for two minutes and stand around for 3! Yay! /sarcasm

I dont remember standing idle for 3 minutes for my mp to fully recover.

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

I dont remember standing idle for 3 minutes for my mp to fully recover.

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Clearly you're doing it wrong then!

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

And it eats up 200ish MP.

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yeah, it can definitely use some adjustment it's too expensive, and it doesn't last long enough but I was stating it is there. If you are being wailed on it gives you roughly 100mp back per hit. The lowest I've gotten back was 85 mp. Obviously thiisn't a good scenario if the mages are getting pummeled. But sacred prism+sanguine could possibly help out a tank.

It would be nice to give blm more spell management traits or abilities. Buff up Parsimony.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Clearly you're doing it wrong then!

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lulz indeed.

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

Don't know if this has been mentioned here or not but I noticed that Thundara and Blizzara are both instant-cast spells, yet Fira has a 3 second cast time. I'm further confused by the fact that one of the combo bonuses for thundara is a reduced cast time but how can it be reduced further than instant-cast ? ...

Something seems not right here so if dev could please respond if this is a mistake or intentional. If intentional I'd love to hear the design philosophy supporting this.

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I haven't played around with it enough to notice, but the spells that take 3 secs to cast, are they the AOE ones? You have to take a very close look at the descriptions, fire is an AOE, while stone is not. It's very mix-and-match when it comes to which are AOE and which ones are not.

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

Don't know if this has been mentioned here or not but I noticed that Thundara and Blizzara are both instant-cast spells, yet Fira has a 3 second cast time. I'm further confused by the fact that one of the combo bonuses for thundara is a reduced cast time but how can it be reduced further than instant-cast ? ...

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The reduction is not in the cast time of Thundara, but rather the RE-cast time (aka cooldown). If the stun goes off, the spell cannot be cast for the 30 seconds shown in the tooltip. If no stun happens, I believe it's something like a 15 second CD? Or something close to that anyway :P

Soooooo....I just finished an Ifrit fight as Nuking conjurer. I was actually able to keep my MP up very well as conj, thanks to Blissful Mind and Shroud of Saints. Oh yeah, and Cleric Stance FTW!! In terms of nukes, I alternated Aero and Stone, and when I felt like I had the MP to spare I would throw in a Stone>Stonera combo. From a quick look at a parse, I had apparently topped in damage, but I'm gonna hold off on making any conclusions about how good of a DD this is until I test it some more.

The reason this brings me joy is that I've actually found a sustainable way to nuke and still put out competitive damage. Of course this is only for the Ifrit fight, so the large amounts of movement in the moogle fight may mess too much with MP regen. But hot dang, after testing all the possible combinations I could come up with, I think I've finally found a viable nuking style for this patch :D

Note: I'm using Ifrit's Cane with a few double-melded pieces for Int and Magic Potency (Hat, Legs, Boots), a Mythril Choker, and two +7 Int rings. I've also allotted my points as +23 Mind and +22 Int.

Anyone else tried Ifrit since patch?

Thundaga Resisting for 250 damage. For a 500MP nuke this is a poor trade-off.

Anyone got any tips for lowering resist rates?

I hope they lower MP costs, or Combo'd MP costs or something.

I was nuking just fine, kept mp up. Pulled hate from the tank ;>.>

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

I was nuking just fine, kept mp up. Pulled hate from the tank ;>.>

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Hehe, THIS! >.>

Got caught by surprise and had to stop casting after hitting red threat. That's how we know we're doing it right....right? :D

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Originally Posted by Ricepudding

Hehe, THIS! >.>

Got caught by surprise and had to stop casting after hitting red threat. That's how we know we're doing it right....right? :D

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mhmm .