Especially with self-combo, I, too, am worried that actual damage output of bows might be better than DPS as overall damage (since we will do more weapon skills with self-combo and DPS is not involved in weapon skills). :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rukkirii
Non-Flame crafters getting burned
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12-15-2011, 01:44 PMNakiamiie
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12-15-2011, 01:56 PMJynxjust a question...has anyone tested how putting your craft stats (Vit Str) ext help your sucsess rates compared to Craftsmanship or MagCraft?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephrick
I can't imagine people throwing everything in such a fluff if they didn't. Slotted gear may still be vastly superior to this stuff. -
12-15-2011, 02:01 PMSephrickMy understand is that for crafts stats (like Vit) affect high quality rates. One for main hand and the other for off hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
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12-15-2011, 02:11 PMAlise
All GC item are only for temporary use, just live with it.
I think it is good during certain time to have this city good for this classes and another city good for another set of classes. Then rotate around later. Why must one be best all the time? -
12-15-2011, 02:29 PMWillRiker
This actually makes me upset. The stats on the items really should be the same, even on weapons. Fact of the matter is that spike damage reigns on ifrit, and exp, fights. The DPS on them may mathematically be equal, if you average the numbers over time, but I feel that the designers are running into an issue where their mathematical model does not accurately reflect how the game will react to them. When you need to move around a lot, or when enemies die quickly, heavy damage/high delay weapons reign supreme on DPS.
For Ifrit, you need to move around a lot. When you can do damage, you want to put on the damage as hard as possible. The DPS is a mash of spike damage, averaged out. DPS on ifrit cannot be obtained through consistent low damage hits over time...This is compounded by the fact that you often need to hold onto TP for an opportune time to land an attack. For exp fights, low burst, low delay type weapons are a waste of time because before enough time passes for decent DoT to result from a low delay/low damage weapon... the enemy is already dead from high damage high delay weapons.
As for crafting stats, I feel that I am at a disadvantage for no other reason than I chose LL over Ul'dah... under the impression that GC items would be relatively equal. This is a rather large difference in stats for that slot. Certainly, it is too large to be considered equivalent. -
12-15-2011, 02:29 PMSephrickQuote:
Originally Posted by Alise
Accept Yoshida said not to pick based on what class the city seemed to support or what items a GC gave because it wouldn't matter in coming patches. Had I known such quality items were coming to Ul'dah I'd have stayed there.
It'd be different if we could switch companies. -
12-15-2011, 02:38 PMJynxWhat do you want them to do?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephrick
Give every item implemented to every company? Seriously the gear isn't that massive of a advantage. The best compromise would be to inflate the seal cost for the items outside your company and they may do just that in the future. It's not something to complain about really.
Next patch could introduce even better stuff for another city, so in the long run you really shouldn't choose your company for the gear because your almost betting to be dissapointed in the end if thats your choice. Gear isn't everything. -
12-15-2011, 02:52 PMSephrickNo, but they could have done what they did with the rings and make it something comparable. They don't need to be exact. The issue isn't something being slightly better or worse, it's that for two of the GCs, the items don't even exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
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12-15-2011, 02:54 PMLemmingKingXXX
I really don't think this is as big of a deal as some of you are making it out to be, I'm running some comparisons with the crafting gear available at 38+ and I'm not even sure I'd want to use the crakows in any case, I'd rather have the control afforded by the linen gaiters. From what I've been able to do by playing around with the gear available, I've found that if you strike up a balance between the three crafting stats (as you probably should due to our ignorance as to their specific effects excluding control), with non-gc gear you can get 32-39-34 MCraft-Craft-Control from non-dated items, and with GC gear that can go to 43-35-39. Now using armorer as an example, at 48 their main tool gives 64-76-82 for a combined non-GC balanced set of 96-115-116 and a GC balanced set of 107-111-121, you gain 16.5% MCraft, and exchange 3.4% Craft for 4.1% Control.
Sure, flames may have a slight advantage over non-flames, but I really don't think it's as huge as people are making it out to be. That huge % difference between the GC gear and the next best non-GC counterpart doesn't look so big when you take the whole picture into account (and btw the difference between FS Sarouel and the Woolen Sarouel is 7 not 8).
Feel free to play with the numbers more, the attempt of putting together a balanced set of (albeit miss-matched) gear was just based on manipulation of available options by hand and I haven't run it through any kind of optimization formulas, I will however gladly post the spreadsheet I have containing the info I used though, as the input process was kind of a drag. -
12-15-2011, 04:05 PMMeleena
Its FAR better this way, I like that different cities have different items (like they should have) as long as all cities have good items and no I am not from Uldah GC.
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12-15-2011, 05:31 PMKumaAkuma
I actually found it balanced that Uldah got a decent crafting piece this time. If you look at the current lv25 company gear for crafting, Uldah's gear just sucks compared to the other cities...
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12-15-2011, 06:01 PMAliseBecause Yoshida look for long term, not just as short term.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephrick
For now, Uldah is best for crafter, then what about next patch? Limsa might get better crafters gear than Uldah, so this make thing balance overall, and also which is why I said they are just for temporary. One company shouldn't be best at specific classes all the time, but should rotate around. Making all GC give the same item = boring too!
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12-15-2011, 07:49 PMShneibelI believe the Uldah is for all class as the lvl 25 top (cant check anymore since I join the Serpent)Quote:
Originally Posted by KumaAkuma
the Lominsan doublet +20 crafmanship only for BSM,ARM,CRP,MIN;BTN;FSH
The Gridanian something +15 only for CUL,ALC,WVR,LTW
none class restrict > class restrict
edit: also you can buy the Lominsan Doublet and the Gridanian something before join companies so nothing to complain there, just 3 times dungeon quest should be more than enough seal for those 2
on the other hands when GC first update the GC of 3 city have : slops pants +12
and with this new update, only uldah have a +18 pants and it is for all class while the slops is class restrict -
12-15-2011, 08:34 PMKumaAkuma
Gridanian Coatee Evasion +2, Craftsmanship+15, Control+5 Requires: GSM LTW WVR ALC CUL
Gridanian Doublet Mg. Craftsmanship+20, Output+20 Requires: CRP BSM ARM MIN BTN FSH
Lominsan Apron Magic Evasion+2, Mg. Craftsmanship+15, Control+5 Requires: GSM LTW WVR ALC CUL
Lominsan Doublet Vest Gathering+20, Craftsmanship+20 Requires: CRP BSM ARM MIN BTN FSH
versus
Ul'dahn Gown Evasion+5, Craftsmanship+10, Mg. Craftsmanship+5, Control : +5 Requires: Discipline of the Hand
Edit: legs sucks also
Gridanian Bottom Mg. Craftsmanship+8, Control+4 Requires: GSM LTW WVR ALC CUL
Gridanian Slops Craftsmanship+12, Gathering+12 Requires: CRP BSM ARM MIN BTN FSH
Lominsan Chausses Craftsmanship+8, Control+4 Requires: GSM LTW WVR ALC CUL
Lominsan Slops Mg. Craftsmanship+12, Output+12 Requires: CRP BSM ARM MIN BTN FSH
versus
Ul'dahn Chausses Craftsmanship+4, Mg. Craftsmanship+4, Control+4 Requires: Discipline of the Hand
Basically with Uldah you can be cheap and get one set with weaker stats instead of two sets, but the whole point of this thread is to optimize gear for crafting, making this set the worst set out there. -
12-15-2011, 09:07 PMDreadnoughtagreeing with thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
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12-15-2011, 11:49 PMsyntaxlies
seems like every GC got some nice new items, i wish i could have them all but i cant. Oh well. One way to keep every player in the game from looking the same is to limit who can have what.
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12-16-2011, 12:25 AMMeatdawgSeems pretty whiny to me...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephrick
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12-16-2011, 12:32 AMFlynnRider
It isn't fair, straight up. I may have screwed up and not got the gear I need now, when I had the chance then, but now I'm regretting it. The option to spend Company Seals in other cities needs to be available, no matter the consequences.
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12-16-2011, 12:36 AMSephrickIt's not whiny to discuss facts. But thank you for your irrelevant contribution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatdawg
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12-16-2011, 12:43 AMHiirNoivl
Sameness is boring. Variety is good.
Is there nothing in your GC that you want? That's better than your other GC? -
12-16-2011, 12:45 AMCoglin
This is a good arguement for why I should be able to wear job only warrior gear on my bard.
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12-16-2011, 01:07 AMAgoven
I as a player don't want everyone to have everything. This is a game...and you are asked to make choices. Boo hoo hoo if you can't get an item from one GC over another.
I'm sure there are those that agree with this philosophy. There is something to say about uniqueness of characters.
That said I do agree with the idea of inflated seal costs for similar stat items from one GC to the next. People are complaining about a few minor stats that won't really do anything.
I am more agreeing to the point if there were huge differentiation due to GCs specialization in certain weapons that being part of that GC earns you an advantage to get a higher stat gear at a lower seal level vs a GC that doesn't specialize in it. Say GC 1 seal cost 5000 due to GC specialization. GC 2 seal cost 7500 due to no specialization requiring more effort to acquire. -
12-16-2011, 02:30 AMMeatdawgYeah because who wants character uniqueness...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephrick
Watch out when i have .00002% better success rate then you....
You are not "discussing facts" you are throwing a fit because you cant have something. -
12-16-2011, 02:57 AMWillRiker
I never understood why MMO's make you choose factions. In single player its cool, but it never ends well in MMO's. Everyone complains until both factions are basically the same anyway, alla WoW. That or they give you access to the other factions defining qualities, alla EVE Online and FFXI.
SE will eventually settle on one of these options, just like they did in the past. Because making long lasting decisions that early, in an MMO game, is silly at best. -
12-16-2011, 02:59 AMsyntaxlies
there is always the options to make 2 more characters and select dif GC so you can get everything:)
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12-16-2011, 03:25 AMSephrickActually I've been level-headed about it. It wasn't until people tried to make it sound like I was throwing a fit that I got a little more unnerved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatdawg
It's one thing to discuss ones own perspective. It's another to make useless post that is nothing more than "stfu crybaby lulz who cares."
And I am just discussing facts. Months ago, SE said this issue wouldn't come up. But it has.
This thread has rendered many great suggestions to remedy the situation without making all GC items the same with a different coat of paint.
Had I known what items Ul'dah was getting in 1.20, I'd have chosen Immortal Flames. But we were reassured it wouldn't matter.
The main theme of SE MMOs is that with one character, you can do everything. I like the idea that's akin to XI's conquest points. Allow us to spend double seals to get the items from other GCs as long as we're the proper rank in our own. -
12-16-2011, 03:34 AMShneibelsarcasm or serious ?Quote:
Originally Posted by syntaxlies
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12-16-2011, 05:00 AMBahnSo in other words, until the next patch comes around, I stay shafted because I chose to pick a Grand Company that I enjoyed due to the lore/story behind the company (that Square spent a LOT of time and effort into, if you haven't noticed), rather than items? Screw the lore, just gimme the items and tough shit for the others who actually gave their GC decision a lot of thought (which Square intended for you to do), is what you're saying, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alise
Sorry, not for me, I'm not a min-maxing munchkin. Although I picked Immortal Flames (because I liked the leader, and not because I wanted the items), I can very much see what the other players' gripe is, ESPECIALLY because Yoshida originally stated that the strength of the items would not differ based on which GC you join.
Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure they have other far more pressing matters at the moment, and I can't blame them if they don't get this fixed right away. But kudos to Sephrick to pointing out this discrepancy. -
12-16-2011, 05:09 AMMeatdawgQuote:
Originally Posted by Sephrick
You realize you have a 7 page thread going, one of many i see on the front page, because you cant "have the most stats for a crafter possible"
A system where 5 more +craft isn't going to make any noticeable difference when your crafting jobs are all level 50 and HQ is just 1 level....
Or 40 more Block on your shield isn't going to make you less of a tank then the other guy
SERIOUSLY do you have nothing better to complain about (facepalm)
This patch one GC has a few "perceivable" better items then another, and next patch a different one will.
There is way more things SE needs to concern themselves with then weather or not I can get better crafting pants then you... -
12-16-2011, 05:37 AMSephrickAgain, there was a contradiction in statements made. It's the principal that this sets a precedent and continues the trend of SE saying one thing and doing another.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatdawg
Just like "we'll release the class action changes when 1.19 so that we can monitor player feedback to help shape our direction" the six weeks later when it's too late for our feedback to matter they release a list of bare bones information.
I'm less concerned with how good the items are or aren't and more so with consistency in statements made by the developer.
We all made a choice we can't undo based on what we were told and what we were told has proven incorrect.
If SE wants to rebuild trust, stucking to their word or being updront about changing their minds is a good place to start. -
12-16-2011, 11:05 AMAgoven
Final Fantasy games have always been about story and lore...if they steer away from that just to give out items without consequences...they will truly piss off their main player base.
I'm sorry but if I wanted another WoW where everyone could get everything with no consequences I'd go play WoW. I want to make some tough decisions and get what I get.
Sorry to say that one item over another isn't game destructive in Final Fantasy XIV. The stats they put on x,y, and z item from one GC to another isn't substantial...and the fact is remember materia plastered gear is still substantially better then anything you can get from static gear. -
12-16-2011, 11:09 AMSephrickOr FFXI? Because the few cases where you couldn't get any item like the CoP rings they made sure you knew. Until they made it so you could change your mind.Quote:
I'm sorry but if I wanted another WoW where everyone could get everything with no consequences I'd go play WoW. I want to make some tough decisions and get what I get.