SB Bard Changes: Good or Bad? Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Exterium

It does feel extremelly weak while leveling.

I'm kinda ok with the brd damage on long encounters (very long in fact), but in short combats/leveling, it feels very very very weak compared to anything else I've been with.

AA hits for 1k, usually less, both dots at the same time hit for around 1400, empyreal arrow hits for a bit more than 2k, I've seen direct hit crit sidewinders not even reaching 5k, the same with our execute, hitting for just a bit more than 2k.

The biggest hit we can land is pitch perfect, and I've seen a lot of encounters where it just won't get 3 charges (though I ussualy use it on 2 so I don't waste a possible 4th charge), that means more than 90 seconds without a big pitch perfect.

Throwing a lot of shit to the enemy doesn't mean good damage, I won't argue that it's fun to play, I enjoy the gameplay, but I do feel at the same time that I'm pretty weak.

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I'm not going to claim that you're wrong, because I don't have data on the damage I'm doing and neither do you since ACT is still broken.

I am going to say that I've tanked 90% of the PotD I have done from 50 to 60 that didn't have an actual tank in them, and definitely the bosses.

You say "throwing a lot of shit to the enemy doesn't mean good damage"; I'm going to say "neither does doing a big hit every now and then". Quantity and quality are both equally valid means of reaching the same sum. Stop worrying about it until you actually have the numbers in front of you.

However, there are two things I would say:
1. If you feel you are being outdamaged by a war and a whm you might also look into what you are doing wrong.
2. Stop looking for giant numbers on a class that revolves around ogcd resets.
3. Don't expect to be top dps as bard, when the class has so many buffs for the entire group.

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Originally Posted by Exterium

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Sounds like a problem with your gear and how you approach fights rather than a problem with the class. Although I just looked up your Lodestone and your gear is better than mine on account of you being 3 levels above me (and past the MSQ hurdle too), so it's most likely the approach, as for some reason I'm getting better results than you are (or I'm a bit more attuned to Bard as I'm used to raiding as one).

You should be throwing up Windbite and Venomous Bite BEFORE activating your songs, I see the vast majority of Bards doing the opposite instead, which is really bad. Song first is pointless because that means you're spending the first 5 seconds likely not getting any bonuses.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

I'd argue we're actually way overtuned at the moment, in every dungeon/24 man alliance I've been in ever since SB release, I was far and away the top DPS (and I've literally had to use Tactician/MP Refresh early in numerous occasions already to avoid taking aggro). SB Bard also gets access to better AoE in earlier levels...

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The issue is that Stormblood seems to have been released with little to no concern for balanced growth of power across jobs. Some capacities are gimped at certain level ranges for certain jobs only to then excel at other ranges. Granted, we saw this slightly with Heavensward's release, too, but not nearly to such a degree.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

Sounds like a problem with your gear and how you approach fights rather than a problem with the class. Although I just looked up your Lodestone and your gear is better than mine on account of you being 3 levels above me (and past the MSQ hurdle too), so it's most likely the approach, as for some reason I'm getting better results than you are (or I'm a bit more attuned to Bard as I'm used to raiding as one).

You should be throwing up Windbite and Venomous Bite BEFORE activating your songs, I see the vast majority of Bards doing the opposite instead, which is really bad. Song first is pointless because that means you're spending the first 5 seconds likely not getting any bonuses.

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Straight shot, storm bite, bloodletter, caustic bite, mage's balad, heavy shot, barrage + empyreal, heavy shot, sidewinder, if you have any suggestions, go ahead.

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Originally Posted by Furious

1. If you feel you are being outdamaged by a war and a whm you might also look into what you are doing wrong.
2. Stop looking for giant numbers on a class that revolves around ogcd resets.
3. Don't expect to be top dps as bard, when the class has so many buffs for the entire group.

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1. Answered above.
2. It revolves around ogcd resets every 90 seconds during 30 seconds, during another 30 you are just hitting faster (with luck), and during another 30 you may get a hit.
3. I don't, I've been playing ranged since HW came out, both BRD and MCH, edit: also, the buffs part is fun, we don't even buff ourselves with anything, thus making the solo experience even worse.

..................

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

Sounds like a problem with your gear and how you approach fights rather than a problem with the class. Although I just looked up your Lodestone and your gear is better than mine on account of you being 3 levels above me (and past the MSQ hurdle too), so it's most likely the approach, as for some reason I'm getting better results than you are (or I'm a bit more attuned to Bard as I'm used to raiding as one).

You should be throwing up Windbite and Venomous Bite BEFORE activating your songs, I see the vast majority of Bards doing the opposite instead, which is really bad. Song first is pointless because that means you're spending the first 5 seconds likely not getting any bonuses.

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It's not "reaaaally bad". It's not right while solo. While with others, they miss out on 2% crit while you don't have a song.

Going song > dot > dot means you get miss out on 3 proc chances out of 20 on the first song of the fight if you didn't have a song up already, and it means your dots start later which matters if the fight lasts somewhere in the period of time where you didn't have to refresh them once extra for applying them first, but it also means that your group misses out on 3 gcds of 2% flat crit chance.

It's also very much unlikely to be the main cause of his problems in the scheme of things.

Other than the change having to do with mostly being stationary due to cast times, I can't say I'm a fan of the changes for Bard. At all. Even if people vouch for them, I just don't. It's an opinion.

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Originally Posted by Exterium

Straight shot, storm bite, bloodletter, caustic bite, mage's balad, heavy shot, barrage + empyreal, heavy shot, sidewinder, if you have any suggestions, go ahead.

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Seems fine, but saying it and executing it are different things.

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2. It revolves around ogcd resets every 90 seconds during 30 seconds, during another 30 you are just hitting faster (with luck), and during another 30 you may get a hit.

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All 3 songs are effectively ogcd resets in their own ways. Mage's ballad is a direct ogcd reset. Paean is the least impactful in terms of gameplay but still makes your stuff reset faster (all of it, not just ogcd), and Wanderer's minuet is an ogcd reset disguised as something else (think of pitch perfect as the ogcd, and it requires 2-3 "procs" to reset). However, when talking about solo, not being affected by a buff doesn't mean you do less damage than if you could use it; it means you do damage more consistently (your base damage is higher than it would be if you had access to the buff).

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3. I don't, I've been playing ranged since HW came out, both BRD and MCH, edit: also, the buffs part is fun, we don't even buff ourselves with anything, thus making the solo experience even worse.

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I don't have a problem with the dps portions of our buffs not buffing us directly; any time you don't benefit from a buff, it means you need to have higher baseline damage to offset the difference in terms of balance. "Not benefiting from a buff" is often a good thing even though most people think otherwise. Any time you can't gain damage from x, for balance to occur, the designers must somehow integrate x damage into your spec in other ways (often baseline damage).

So, the "problem" of buffs not affecting us is not intrinsically a problem unless we have bad damage as a result. Where this is most problematic is if those buffs are multiplicative with other buffs; the 2% base crit is only marginally so since it is additive with our base crit anyway, but the direct hit buff is multiplicative and thus could become a problem later for bard damage.

I definitely DO have a problem with the defensive buffs not affecting us, because raidwide cooldowns need to affect the whole raid. Troubadour has problems walking out the door because if it is to be used to combat a risk to the entire group, the bard remains at risk when it's used and demands another cooldown or healer attention. It's a weird design choice in terms of defenses, in offences it's not intrinsically a problem.

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Originally Posted by Furious

I don't have a problem with the dps portions of our buffs not buffing us directly; any time you don't benefit from a buff, it means you need to have higher baseline damage to offset the difference in terms of balance. "Not benefiting from a buff" is often a good thing even though most people think otherwise.

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This is the only part I strongly disagree with. Not having damage buffs (well yeah RS, but it's not exactly powerfull for a single usage) directly impacts upon your ability to react, react to a mob being pulled when you didn't expect it, a pull getting out of hand... react, to say it in a word. Right now you just have to pray and wait to see if you are going to be cappable of killing something more than what a quest gives you, because you just can't react to anything else if it happens.

Right now I'm "reacting" to an extra mob, with second wind and a potion.

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Originally Posted by Exterium

This is the only part I strongly disagree with. Not having damage buffs (well yeah RS, but it's not exactly powerfull for a single usage) directly impacts upon your ability to react, react to a mob being pulled when you didn't expect it, a pull getting out of hand... react, to say it in a word. Right now you just have to pray and wait to see if you are going to be cappable of killing something more than what a quest gives you, because you just can't react to anything else if it happens.

Right now I'm "reacting" to an extra mob, with second wind and a potion.

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When I have cooldowns I use them to go faster, not withhold them to deal with situations that almost never arrise, but I can see how that would be a problem if you did. You also still have Raging Blows and Barrage.

I like Bard changes in Stormblood. The only two things I would like to change is to have an additional dot timer on our song UI as well as a sound notice nearing the end of a song.

I played Bard and only bard in HW , and I have to say. Did you guys really think you're going to get a ton of utility and still maintain the old damage you had? Keep dreaming lol.
It's fun to play , but the damage took a big hit. You're a support dps.

I am reserving full judgment until I reach level 70 (just recently hit 64 after finally making it to the level 63 dungeon in SB), but I am leaning towards being slightly dismayed with the changes.

Here are the things I do like:
--Stormbite and Caustic Bite timers: love that they're 30 seconds and sync up well with the songs, especially since sometimes I space out when I'm mashing Rain of Death during a large pull and forget to tab through and continuously refresh my old 18-second DoTs.
--Song utility: I really like that added effects that songs have, and I am working on figuring out the best way to prioritize them. I lean towards Mage's > Minuet > Army's at the moment for any solo fights, because of the Bloodletter procs, and how RNG-reliant Pitch Perfect and Rep stacks are (especially since I don't have my EA level 68 trait), and I always use Mage's as much as I can in duties with AOE pulls. After Mage's wears off, if mobs are still standing, I tend to opt for Army's if I have another AOE heavy DPS in the group to increase their speed, and because mobs are usually almost dead to where I wouldn't really get the full benefit out of Minuet/Pitch Perfect.
--Barrage crits: Only a fool wouldn't like the fact that Barrage now allows for crits.
--Pitch Perfect WHEN you get the full 3-stack potency: If I can get a nice crit on that, I feel super happy for some reason.

Now, here's the things I don't like:
--Song utility doesn't affect us: I don't know why the developers designed the songs in such a way to not directly affect us. At least 2.x/3.x Mage's and Army's directly affected us while in use, even if they did lower our damage by 10%. Perhaps that was the trade-off: no more damage penalty for the songs having no effects on us.
--Loss of my oGCDs: I don't like that they removed Blunt Arrow and the Damage from Repelling Shot. I used both frequently, weaving them in between my GCDs to squeeze out every ounce of damage that I could. Now, I have neither, and my rotation feels very bare and skeletal without them.
--Loss of Bloodletter/RoD procs (outside of Mage's): This is the change I hate the most, I think. I loved my Bloodletter procs. Loved loved loved them. Now, when I don't have Mage's up, I feel like all I do is spam Heavy Shot, occasionally get a Straighter Shot proc, Iron Jaws every 30 seconds, EA and Bloodletter/RoD every 15... I just dislike that I don't have much to weave in between my Heavy Shots in extended fights. Feels very bland to me, even with juggling songs. Makes BRD feel very...slow. (Also, I really hate the nerf in Bloodletter's potency... took away its ability to proc outside of Mage's AND reduced its potency? I hate that so much; it seems like such an unnecessary nerf, since Bloodletter still procs just as much as it used to, from what I've noticed...not any more or any less.)
--Loss of Flaming Arrow: I always used this on trash pulls. I miss it a lot.
--Loss of basically all of my buffs: I miss Internal Release, B4B, and Hawk's Eye. I miss how well all my buffs lined up with my skills, and how strong my burst felt when I would just unload everything during the first 20 seconds of a fight.

As for my regained mobility, I don't really care that much, as I still tend to just stand still most of the time (and I even catch myself repressing buttons when I do move, like I'm reacting to a cast being interrupted). I miss my cast times because I felt faster with them (if that makes sense), and I felt more powerful. While I don't have hard data or numbers because ACT is out of commission it seems, I feel weaker. And I don't necessarily like that.

Also, still not quite used to Iron Jaws and Empyreal Arrow not having cast times yet.

Again, I'm reserving full judgment for when I'm level 70, but I just feel... a little disheartened with BRD right now. Hopefully it gets better and feels better at 70.

trying to see the whole picture here and the bard feels the most promising atm PVE/PVP.
Let's see how it does at 70.

I've only played a BRD since I started this game lol. Wasn't sure what else I wanted to lvl so bard was my main... I'm not sure how to feel about this whole thread since I'm not even 60 yet. I do know that I'm not sure how my rotation should be now missing things I had last week. Most of what u guys are saying about what to do this and how to do that doesn't really make any sense to me since I'm a newbie. Anyone have any rotation advice or should it really just be a thing once we hit 70? I'm not sure who is really paying any attention on ps4 to dmg but I don't wanna be garbage dps either.

I am out damage. Only at 61 yet I am doing much less dmg than I was prior to BS. I'm still not liking the changes made, yet I've become more comfortable with the rotation and use of songs. I can't seem to adjust to the free movement either. Find myself constantly standing still and worried my fired shot will be canceled if I move lol. I enjoyed it much more the way it was last week. Actually gonna drop BRD and focus on RDM. My crits dropped from about 7+ k toward a max of roughly 3.5 k from what I can see from my numbers in game and I'm not enjoying it at all. It was fun while it lasted though. If I were to continue playing BRD is there a set song rotation that works best after firing your DOTS?

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Originally Posted by xNewbx

I played Bard and only bard in HW , and I have to say. Did you guys really think you're going to get a ton of utility and still maintain the old damage you had? Keep dreaming lol.
It's fun to play , but the damage took a big hit. You're a support dps.

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Yeah, the damage nerf is probably there to keep some form of balance. Unconditional damage with mobility and at a safe range is pretty OP. Just like when 2.0 first launched. 2 Tanks, 3 Bards, 1 Dragoon, and 2 healers were meta at one point LOL.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

As for my regained mobility, I don't really care that much, as I still tend to just stand still most of the time (and I even catch myself repressing buttons when I do move, like I'm reacting to a cast being interrupted). I miss my cast times because I felt faster with them (if that makes sense), and I felt more powerful.

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I couldn't have stated it better myself, especially this last part. I miss that oGCDs felt urgent, important, and their opportunities vital.

I feel like there's one and only one redeeming factor to the changes: the addition of mechanical variance. But, depending on whether likes one set in particular (e.g. MB's River of Blood mechanic) more than the whole spread, even that's not going to be purely a good thing.

It's just so funny to see "Bring back my cast timers!" compared to the exact opposite at the launch of HW! xD

A lot of you are missing that HW bard was built around being level 60. So you can't compare endgame HW bard with level 61 SB bard, because it's not built around 61, it's built around 70. Once you get Refulgent Arrow everything changes. 300 potency instant cast that CAN be used with Barrage, making it a 900 potency button push. Plus, the attack can be used every time the straight shot crit buff pops up, which also makes it potentially the most spammable 300+ potency attack in the game.

Patience, and you will be rewarded.

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Originally Posted by Aerolithe_Lion

A lot of you are missing that HW bard was built around being level 60. So you can't compare endgame HW bard with level 61 SB bard, because it's not built around 61, it's built around 70. Once you get Refulgent Arrow everything changes. 300 potency instant cast that CAN be used with Barrage, making it a 900 potency button push. Plus, the attack can be used every time the straight shot crit buff pops up, which also makes it potentially the most spammable 300+ potency attack in the game.

Patience, and you will be rewarded.

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Mhm.... Preach on.

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Originally Posted by Tonberrian

It's just so funny to see "Bring back my cast timers!" compared to the exact opposite at the launch of HW! xD

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It's somewhat expected; those of us who stopped playing bard with the HW fiasco are coming back in flocks, while those who stayed with it and are used to magebard take longer to adjust. People saying "I don't even use the mobility, I just stand there anyway, I find myself recasting abilities thinking they were cancelled by movement"; none of these are issues with the current iteration of the class, but issues with acclimating to change. It'll come with time.

Complaints about numbers are neither here nor there; until ACT works again we don't really know how they stack up. Mechanically bard works really nicely now and is better than the ARR iteration in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Furious

"I don't even use the mobility, I just stand there anyway, I find myself recasting abilities thinking they were cancelled by movement"; none of these are issues with the current iteration of the class, but issues with acclimating to change. It'll come with time.

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Going to respond to this, since it's a paraphase of a sentence in my post: The thinking I'm still interrupting casts when I move is just me needing to adjust to not having them. However, even before I got to Heavensward, back when I was 50 BRD or lower, I never moved around much. I would move to dodge AOEs, position myself closer to a mob if necessary (like for Quick Nock or Repelling Shot), reposition if the tank seemed to be unable to make up their mind which way to face the boss, etc., but I never moved around constantly like some of the BRDs I see. I stayed in one spot and only moved if I had to, not move just because I could. So my standing still isn't me needing to adjust from HW Bard--that's just how I've always played.

Anecdotal, of course, but I do know a few bards who play like I've always played: only moving when we had to, not moving just because we could.

It's actually similar to how archery is in real life, if you think about it. When you're standing still, you're able to put more power behind your arrow when you draw it back, as opposed to if you're moving. I know FFXIV isn't real life, but the cast times just always gave me the illusion of really drawing that arrow back, and firing it.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for fixing bard. It plays so much better now! I have played bard since launch and stuck with it to see how the changes were. I love the changes!

If I have to compare Bard it is basically back to 2.0 gameplay but with a slight adjustment to managing Songs.

Although I'm only in the mid-60s with BRD at the moment, I am really enjoying the change to playstyle. It feels far, far better than the HW iteration to me. My only problems so far is fighting muscle memory. I thought I was fine until the level 61 dungeon, then during some of the fights it felt like my fingers took over and was trying to use old skills. The level 63 dungeon felt more comfortable as I was settling in to more of a groove.

It took them the length of an entire expansion, Heavensward, but it feels like they have BRD back on the right track.

Im absolutely in love with the current iteration of bard. There is a ton of things going on, and when you do it correctly, it feels quite rewarding. I can see this class being incredibly gear dependent due to the song mechanics. My only major concerns are that none of the party buffs apply to ourselves and Foe req seems to last 12 seconds or less and 3% for 10 secs with around 1.5-2 min mana regen times just feels subpar.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Going to respond to this, since it's a paraphase of a sentence in my post: The thinking I'm still interrupting casts when I move is just me needing to adjust to not having them. However, even before I got to Heavensward, back when I was 50 BRD or lower, I never moved around much. I would move to dodge AOEs, position myself closer to a mob if necessary (like for Quick Nock or Repelling Shot), reposition if the tank seemed to be unable to make up their mind which way to face the boss, etc., but I never moved around constantly like some of the BRDs I see. I stayed in one spot and only moved if I had to, not move just because I could. So my standing still isn't me needing to adjust from HW Bard--that's just how I've always played.

Anecdotal, of course, but I do know a few bards who play like I've always played: only moving when we had to, not moving just because we could.

It's actually similar to how archery is in real life, if you think about it. When you're standing still, you're able to put more power behind your arrow when you draw it back, as opposed to if you're moving. I know FFXIV isn't real life, but the cast times just always gave me the illusion of really drawing that arrow back, and firing it.

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I don't think anyone moves just because they can, but pre-emptively moving means you are already moving out of an AoE you know is coming before it starts being cast.

As a direct analogy, pre-moving is like using the spell queue, while standing still and moving in reaction is like using a macro. Because you are already moving when the aoe starts being cast, you have the most possible time to get out of the aoe, while if you move only in response to the AoE, there is an overhead of atleast (ms it took you to notice the aoe + ms of your latency). There isn't a benefit to not moving when you don't have cast times.

As for your analogy to real world archery, I don't really do RP so I'm not interested in much more than how the mechanic feels to use in-game. Being forced to stand still is quantifiably less powerful than being able to move while doing the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Furious

I don't think anyone moves just because they can, but pre-emptively moving means you are already moving out of an AoE you know is coming before it starts being cast.

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We're on different data centers, so perhaps you don't encounter this on yours, but on mine, I frequently see many bards just running back and forth, or in circles, around mobs or an arena, not to preemptively dodge, but just because they can move. So, yes, there are bards out there who flail around just because they can. I've encountered even more since Early Access.

There also is not a benefit to just moving around in circles around a boss just because you can either. The bards that remained bards after the Heavensward changes, all the good ones mastered how to stutter-step, and where to preemptively move before AOE casts just like you are saying we can do so now with no cast times.

As for the power of bards now: we lost mobility in Heavenward, and in turned gained an immense amount of personal DPS. With the Stormblood changes, we traded personal DPS for mobility. SE will not allow us to have both, and for me personally, I would rather stand still and feel stronger than have the ability to freely move and feel significantly weaker. This is my opinion though, and I'm already aware it's an unpopular one.

I just solo'd a level 50 Champion fate as an under-geared level 52 Bard.
So for me, the Bard changes in SB have been fantastic.
Bowmage actually made me quit the game.
Why? Because I chose Bard in ARR specifically because it DIDN'T play like a mage.

For the players lamenting the changes, I can't help but wonder...
If you prefer the "stand still, big burst" gameplay, why not simply play Blm/Smn/Rdm?
Movement made the Bard unique, and I'm really glad they decided to bring it back.

Yes, our DPS probably took a hit (even though a direct crit Barrage Refulgent Arrow does an absolute comical amount of damage).
Yes, it feels "weird"; thematically, that Ballad/Paeon/Minuet are basically now just part of the rotation, and Refresh/Tactician are more "shouts" than songs.
But you simply cannot deny that being able to use Ballad+Foe's+Refresh+Tactician all at the same time gives Bard more group support than we have ever had in FFXIV.
Add in Palisade and Minne (incredibly powerful tank buffs), and the fact that all our group damage buffs (2% crit, 3% damage, 15% direct hit) affect all dps equally (regardless of magic vs physical damage)?
Who wouldn't want a BRD or MCH in their group right now?

Since I haven't got to raid and since I haven't been playing long I was curious... Do groups even really ask for songs anymore? I read that a couple ppl were actually insulted when bards put up songs like they didn't know what they were doing or something like that. And I'm not even sure where songs go into the brd rotation since these changes threw me off from the one I was almost getting down a couple weeks ago before the changes. Sorry if my questions or comments might sound slightly idiotic I'm just trying to understand and be a good brd.

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Originally Posted by Recklessfun

Do groups even really ask for songs anymore?

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Technically, no. You'll have your songs up 100% of the time, and your group just gets 2% crit bonus from them, no matter which song you have up.
So there's no reason they'd ever ask you for Ballad/Paeon/Minuet.

They might ask for Refresh or Tactician if they are running low on MP/TP, or the tank might ask for Palisade or Nature's Minne if a big hit is coming up.
All of those are instant cast buffs now though. They don't decrease your dps, so if a group asks for them you just make sure you're in range, hit the button, and continue on.

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Originally Posted by Furious

There isn't a benefit to not moving when you don't have cast times.

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Well, there can be... In the case of mechanics where spacing is important or if there are raid target line aoe's that you don't want to aim at party members.

Examples:
1) In the Zurvan (extreme) fight, after the boss goes up for soar, 6 players get targeted with an AoE that is unavoidable, and you want to stand still with correct spacing until after the AoE hits, then you move out of it.
2) Or how about Anchag in Amdapor Keep. The arena you fight in is quite small. In this fight the boss targets dps with 2 different AoE's. But you don't want the AoE's to hit the statues around the arena and you don't want the AoE's that target you to hit your healer. So this is another case where it's MUCH better to stand still and position the AoE's correctly than it is to move out of them quicker.

I'm 64 and so far I am enjoying bard again

I feel like I'm playing a different class than what people have been saying in this thread.

I really tried to play BRD in HW and it ruined that class for me. The changes they made are fantastic and when things are proccing I do absurd amounts of damage. I would like it if my songs buffed me but in NO WAY do I feel weaker just the opposite. Switching between the styles of play between the songs is fun the people who "just stand still" should probably try pushing buttons while moving. You don't need to stop your DPS when you are avoiding aoes in dungeons or re positioning for aoe pulls.

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Originally Posted by Bardo

Well, there can be... In the case of mechanics where spacing is important or if there are raid target line aoe's that you don't want to aim at party members.

Examples:
1) In the Zurvan (extreme) fight, after the boss goes up for soar, 6 players get targeted with an AoE that is unavoidable, and you want to stand still with correct spacing until after the AoE hits, then you move out of it.
2) Or how about Anchag in Amdapor Keep. The arena you fight in is quite small. In this fight the boss targets dps with 2 different AoE's. But you don't want the AoE's to hit the statues around the arena and you don't want the AoE's that target you to hit your healer. So this is another case where it's MUCH better to stand still and position the AoE's correctly than it is to move out of them quicker.

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And how is it that you get to the correct spacing when you are targetted with said skills?

DAMMIT, I KNOW THIS ONE

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Originally Posted by Escadora

This is my favorite iteration of Bard, no questions asked. I love it, once you hit 68 you really start to feel the power behind the use of EA in conjunction with ballad/minuet/paeon. Pitch Perfect FEELS AMAZING. I can't wait until I hit 70 and get refulgent arrow. Barrage + Refulgent arrow will be monstrous damage. We have 30/30 dots with no cast times, so multi-dotting is a dream. Dropping multi dots while in ballad, or even paeon is a beautiful thing in AOE situations. (RoD spam in ballad, QN spam in paeon with reduced cast times - you should not run out of TP due to tactician + invigorate)

All around i'd give bard 9.5/10 right now. Would probably say its perfect if they changed the way some of our songs work on ourselves.

This version of Bard makes me so happy. Mad props to the dev team for their work on Bard. They really killed it with this job.

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Having hit level 70, and farmed the hell out of Susano for the last two days. I can say that in my opinion Bard has a definitive spot in a raid environment. Our raid utility is unbelievable.

Also, i'm hovering around 2k Crit, and 900 DHR atm, and the amount of repertoire procs you get is insane. While in Minuet I constantly have multiple L3 PP procs within one Minuet duration. I've seen crits as high as 11k with level L3 PP (i301). Refulgent arrow + barrage procs are delicious especially if you crit the barraged refulgent arrow. Still strong if you don't have Barrage available too. Bards are nasty atm.

I started FF14 during 2.0's launch and I've always mained BRD from the very beginning since I absolutely loved its high speed run-and-gun/party support gameplay (low damage be damned), and also because archery (or guns, when bows aren't available) is my preferred fighting style in RPGs.

Heavensward then came and killed my beloved job, replacing it with the awful Bowmage. Sure it had high damage, but its gameplay was absolutely atrocious. It completely went against the fundamentals BRD was built on, it had little to no skill synergy, and it was just frustrating and clunky as all hell.

Due to my love of BRD, I forced myself for a time to get used to Bowmage, but it was no use. I hated Bowmage because it was not an archer; it was a spellcaster, which are my least favorite classes in RPGs. It was the Bowmage that made me leave FF14 for two years.

So now Yoshi-P realized how big of a mistake Bowmage was, and apologized by giving us the 4.0 Bard. What can I say? I came back to FF14 just for this new Bard, and I have no regrets. No doubt, the 4.0 Bard, or should I say Super Bard, is the best incarnation of this class to date in FF14's history. Everything about it is so fun, fluid, invigorating, and most of all, it remains faithful to BRD's 2.0 origins.

So here's a heartful thanks to Yoshi-P for giving us this wonderful new version of the class. Welcome back, good 'ol Bard. Farewell, Bowmage, and good riddance. You are a mistake that should never have happened!

I have three major gripes:

1.) Quick Noct?! Why are you making us stand in mobs? Wide Volley was superior albeit its higher DPS cost.

2.) Troubadour not effecting us. It's a party wide safety buff...but stops at us...now the healer must give is special attn/extra heal.

3.) I've had farts that lasted longer than the new "Foes".

Every job thread in the forum had it's gripe. Let us all be patient and wait for a few updates to roll in. I'm sure the dev team are still collecting data on the performance of each job. Changes takes time and is not an overnight work. But my only gripe for now is Foe's, I hope is not working as intended as mana dries up too fast :o

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Escadora

Also, i'm hovering around 2k Crit[...](i301)

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Hmmm... that's pretty much impossible, I'm at 306 ilvl and around 1500 crit