Scholars what are your thoughts?

Tfw even White Mage looks more interesting to play than Scholar.

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

Tfw even White Mage looks more interesting to play than Scholar.

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If worse comes to worse, you'll still be accepted in raids and such.
WHM isn't touching savage...

In general, it's just a damn shame what they've done to AST. Doesn't make any sense tomorrow them this powerful to the point where AST/AST is seriously being considered

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

If worse comes to worse, you'll still be accepted in raids and such.
WHM isn't touching savage...

In general, it's just a damn shame what they've done to AST. Doesn't make any sense tomorrow them this powerful to the point where AST/AST is seriously being considered

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Oh I'll sure as hell am going to be accepted in raids because I'm going back to maining Paladin now, LOL. I ain't touching Arcanist with a ten foot pole. I'm only gonna level WHM for when I wanna do expert roulettes on a healer. One would think I should go AST, but it makes me feel dirty, hahaha.

I took my scholar out and did a couple roulettes earlier this morning and I could not keep my tank alive for anything. It didn't matter whether he did regular pulls or giant pulls I just could not keep him alive. Then for some reason EOS kept dying and I couldn't even keep her alive because it was the choice between keeping her alive and letting the tank die.

I used to have no issues whatsoever in any content through level 60 roulette but today I could barely keep my tank alive in snowcloak normal and in darkhold normal.

Something needs to be changed back because right now Scholars are absolutely horrible and there's no point to me even trying to use mine.

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Originally Posted by Dresdel

I took my scholar out and did a couple roulettes earlier this morning and I could not keep my tank alive for anything. It didn't matter whether he did regular pulls or giant pulls I just could not keep him alive. Then for some reason EOS kept dying and I couldn't even keep her alive because it was the choice between keeping her alive and letting the tank die.

I used to have no issues whatsoever in any content through level 60 roulette but today I could barely keep my tank alive in snowcloak normal and in darkhold normal.

Something needs to be changed back because right now Scholars are absolutely horrible and there's no point to me even trying to use mine.

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I have trouble believing it's that bad, so I'll give a level 60 roulette a try and see how it goes.

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Originally Posted by Dresdel

I took my scholar out and did a couple roulettes earlier this morning and I could not keep my tank alive for anything. It didn't matter whether he did regular pulls or giant pulls I just could not keep him alive. Then for some reason EOS kept dying and I couldn't even keep her alive because it was the choice between keeping her alive and letting the tank die.

I used to have no issues whatsoever in any content through level 60 roulette but today I could barely keep my tank alive in snowcloak normal and in darkhold normal.

Something needs to be changed back because right now Scholars are absolutely horrible and there's no point to me even trying to use mine.

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Isn't the gilgamesh slogan "git gud scrub"? Funny

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Originally Posted by Dresdel

I used to have no issues whatsoever in any content through level 60 roulette but today I could barely keep my tank alive in snowcloak normal and in darkhold normal.

Something needs to be changed back because right now Scholars are absolutely horrible and there's no point to me even trying to use mine.

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I hate to say it but I think the problem is you or the tank, I have played scholar for almost all my duties today and the only issues I've had with keeping people alive is managing MP while resurrecting entire parties in Dun Scaith. I'm no expert but I believe Selene's support is much more useful than eos' healing. Yes there are many issues with scholar currently but the only thing that changed in terms of the players healing output is cost and that can be loosely circumvented through the use of aetherflow and energy drain. Not to mention you don't have as much to do DPS wise so healing should be a Non-issue currently. maybe your gear was broken?

Maybe we need a "Consolidated SCH Feedback Thread" like the WHM one so that we can build up our Salt Gauge. Even if Stratagem and Union are way better than anticipated, this doesn't seem like a recipe for fun.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Maybe we need a "Consolidated SCH Feedback Thread" like the WHM one so that we can build up our Salt Gauge. Even if Stratagem and Union are way better than anticipated, this doesn't seem like a recipe for fun.

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SCH is so boring now. Honestly casuals ruin everything. If they found SCH so hard, go play an easy mode class like WHM.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Maybe we need a "Consolidated SCH Feedback Thread" like the WHM one so that we can build up our Salt Gauge. Even if Stratagem and Union are way better than anticipated, this doesn't seem like a recipe for fun.

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ROFL how is union good? its a 10yalm range, fairy needs to stay really close to the target, like cover. Complete garbage.

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Originally Posted by Azell

ROFL how is union good? its a 10yalm range, fairy needs to stay really close to the target, like cover. Complete garbage.

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Never said it was good. My expectation is that it will be crap.

Allowing for the remote possibility that it could have some unforeseen benefit is my nod to the fact that I'm not 70 and haven't actually tried it.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

If worse comes to worse, you'll still be accepted in raids and such.
WHM isn't touching savage...

In general, it's just a damn shame what they've done to AST. Doesn't make any sense tomorrow them this powerful to the point where AST/AST is seriously being considered

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White Mage won't be excepted? It has better MP management and damage. In combination with Astrologion who is Nocturnal, at the moment I think WHM is better to have than Scholar. 180 second Benediction, 60 second assize, Terragramaton uptime feels like all the time, good raw healer. What are you going to bring a SCH for? 2% extra critical raid? Less efficient shields than Noct Ast? Give me a break, WHM looks way better to me at the moment. Only when they fix this travisty I will main Scholar again.

As many people already mentioned, SCH feels weaker, especially underwhelming compared to both other healers (Adloq costs more and shields for less than Noct Benefic, really SE? :l ), but most important of all, boring. Our new DPS rotation is so bland that so many people's favorite, most fun job became a very dull, slower one.

While we all have yet to reach level 70 content and see how the full powered scholar will be like, from the looks of it, and when experiencing level 60>= content, it's safe to say the class got butchered to a very unpleasant spot.

I hope SE can do something to fix it and make it fun again!!

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

If worse comes to worse, you'll still be accepted in raids and such.
WHM isn't touching savage...

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And yet my co healer (who is IMO one of the best SCHs in Europe) is levelling WHM first. Strange that.

Of course SE can do something to fix it, they took it apart in the first place, they can put it back together. However when or if, we do not know yet.
Could this be another case of BRD-They broke my job back in the 3.X series? Are we to wait 2 years for our beloved SCH to be restored to full working order? Who knows :)

While i cannot understand the Bane nerf, i actually feel sch's still pretty good. Actually way better than whm. I Just got Broil II and damn it feels good. Also stratagem coupled with litany and other's buff will be far greater than 2% raid dps increase. And sch's personnal dps is almost as high as Whm's btw. Exco' is great, i use it pretty much everytime. :)

I'm only level 61 right now, but so far I can feel the nerfs they did to Scholar and it makes me wonder what was going through their minds when they proposed it. Playing with only 2 dots just isn't as fun,especially with that whole 80% damage nerf. Losing out on things like Miasma II just hurts. I ran Sohr Kai earlier and I couldn't even help push the moogles out of the revive circles.

The nerf to Aetherflow seems ridiculous (10% seriously...?), and I kind of wish E4E hadn't become a role action, but that's more of a personal pet peeve. Overall SCH right now just feels weaker. It reminds me of AST back when HW just released and frankly, I'm hoping that through the lifespan of 4.0 they do some tweaking, because this just feels all kinds of awful.

I can probably deal with the nerfs maybe but why they did have to nerf the poor fairy? she did nothing wrong

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

DPSing, especially in solo content, is utterly boring now. The main thing I loved about SCH was the complex interaction between healing & DPS. If I wanted brainless I'd have gone WHM. >_>

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Don't want to be mean but where did you saw complexity in running around 100% in cleric letting the fairy do the healing? .___.

Leveling as a SCH is ridiculously slow now. Glad I got my chocobro to lvl 20 to help kill mobs faster.

Do smn and sch still share exp? Or have they separate them in SB? : O

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

SCH is so boring now. Honestly casuals ruin everything. If they found SCH so hard, go play an easy mode class like WHM.

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WTF? You're blaming casuals for this? You need to get your facts straight, because the devs for the longest time have been keeping their eye on how OP SCH was, and even stated that they did not like how much they, and even the other two healers were spending in Cleric Stance. It is pretty clear that they were not content with the meta prior to 4.0. SCH right now, feels more like SE's pure healer than WHM. And we are all finding out that it is every bit as boring as we thought it would be.

Difficulty of a job is also subjective. I think I can count with the fingers on one hand how many tanks have dropped on me while playing SCH. The fairy was always there to back me up if I derped, and especially if I went into Cleric when I shouldn't have. As WHM? I can pave a road for miles with the bodies of dead tanks. This game punished me much more playing WHM without question since there is no safety net when I screw up. That is why taking away the DPS aspect of SCH and giving the most powerful shields to AST just makes it a really boring job to play.

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Originally Posted by Dastev

As many people already mentioned, SCH feels weaker, especially underwhelming compared to both other healers (Adloq costs more and shields for less than Noct Benefic, really SE? :l ), but most important of all, boring. Our new DPS rotation is so bland that so many people's favorite, most fun job became a very dull, slower one.

While we all have yet to reach level 70 content and see how the full powered scholar will be like, from the looks of it, and when experiencing level 60>= content, it's safe to say the class got butchered to a very unpleasant spot.

I hope SE can do something to fix it and make it fun again!!

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We shouldn't have to suffer through 9 levels to get to that point. It should be fun and enjoyable to take your favorite job through new content. However for SCH, even that destination looks gloom. If the eventual over-gearing content remains, will SCHs feel like they are contributing anything when the healing requirement plummets? If EX/savage becomes the only place they even feel viable, what about the players who love SCH but have no interest in endgame?

I'm not disagreeing with you. I am only expressing a major concern that I think most players have right now, especially considering SE isn't well known for giving back what they take away.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

WTF? You're blaming casuals for this? You need to get your facts straight, because the devs for the longest time have been keeping their eye on how OP SCH was, and even stated that they did not like how much they, and even the other two healers were spending in Cleric Stance. It is pretty clear that they were not content with the meta prior to 4.0. SCH right now, feels more like SE's pure healer than WHM. And we are all finding out that it is every bit as boring as we thought it would be.

Difficulty of a job is also subjective. I think I can count with the fingers on one hand how many tanks have dropped on me while playing SCH. The fairy was always there to back me up if I derped, and especially if I went into Cleric when I shouldn't have. As WHM? I can pave a road for miles with the bodies of dead tanks. This game punished me much more playing WHM without question since there is no safety net when I screw up. That is why taking away the DPS aspect of SCH and giving the most powerful shields to AST just makes it a really boring job to play.

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I'd have been fine if they just halved Embraces potency, or just changed everything to the new PvP form (pet heals, when you heal as well). That's the thing, I expected nerfs to hit SCH's ability to keep DPSing, not the DPS gameplay itself, with no changes to the low-risk healing style. In fact, the changes they did is just poor design.. it's spite-development, wildly swinging the nerf hammer, rather than coming up with a solid design where the OP parts are toned down, but things stay rewarding and engaging in their own style.

I also got triggered by SE stating they balanced everything around level 70 play, with jobs not balanced to the content, and you should just try it out when you get there:
1. We have level sync in this game, so not everything is at level 70, even after you reach that point
2. All levels should have a fun and rewarding kit, jobs need to be balanced towards already existing content, otherwise it hurts early game, which is really important for bringing in new players to the game. Would you pick up an MMO if someone tells you, it's clunky and boring at the start, but it gets better later on, when you expect to play for a month or more before even reaching that point?

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Originally Posted by Vulcwen

I'd have been fine if they just halved Embraces potency, or just changed everything to the new PvP form (pet heals, when you heal as well). That's the thing, I expected nerfs to hit SCH's ability to keep DPSing, not the DPS gameplay itself, with no changes to the low-risk healing style. In fact, the changes they did is just poor design.. it's spite-development, wildly swinging the nerf hammer, rather than coming up with a solid design where the OP parts are toned down, but things stay rewarding and engaging in their own style.

I also got triggered by SE stating they balanced everything around level 70 play, with jobs not balanced to the content, and you should just try it out when you get there:
1. We have level sync in this game, so not everything is at level 70, even after you reach that point
2. All levels should have a fun and rewarding kit, jobs need to be balanced towards already existing content, otherwise it hurts early game, which is really important for bringing in new players to the game. Would you pick up an MMO if someone tells you, it's clunky and boring at the start, but it gets better later on, when you expect to play for a month or more before even reaching that point?

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Exactly! In my last post I expressed the same concern for pre-endgame content. Combat should be engaging in ALL content. PLDs shield oath is a testament to this. 3.0 PLDs had to suffer 10 levels without their defensive stance while the other two tanks had theirs (and in a way, healers having to heal them did too). Changing it to 30 FINALLY is an admission that it was senseless decision to make it lv40, and you'd think that they have learned their lesson. Now this burden falls on SCH, assuming they don't get booted right out of the meta, which is a distinct possibility.

I would also think that balancing content outside of endgame would only help balance it at endgame. You have a foundation from which to build off of that brings a sense of familiarity that would help bring more of the casual gamers into this content. If this is a goal of the devs, they're taking one step forward, and two steps back.

I have mained Sch since 2.0. I never thought I would like it since it was nowhere near the Scholar I (still) live in FFXI, but, I ended up playing it all the way through to Stormblood.

But, now? No way. The class's identity has been stripped. We were the preemptive healers. Shield them before they take damage, use buffs to further prevent, and then leave fairy on it until we are needed while we do the other half of the job and throw out as much Dmg as we can.

This carried into 3.0, but we got some AoE "emergency" heals (much appreciated in Nidhogg trial) that completely rounded out the class. I could help the DPS with trash, push Dmg onto the boss, and still keep my party healed. This was a fun play style since I was constantly finding something to do.

With Bane, the removal of dots,and everything else, it's just not fun anymore.

I'm definitely not saying that Sch didn't need some nerfs, namely fairy potency (she is there to allow us time to dps, not be the main healer), but completely gutting our AoE was not needed.

This class is was clearly meant to be more complex (just like Sch in FFXI) than other healers. It did not need a simplification for everyone to be able to pick it up and master it instantly. There are other classes for that. (Not saying this to be "pro gamer here" or w/e, because I definitely know I can't Ninja. Just, not every class is for everyone.)

So, as a previous long time Sch main, I will be enjoying Rdm for now.

Keep in mind I'm level 61 (stuck at the MSQ wall, loool), but I'm already mourning scholar. I started as a white mage, and decided to try out scholar to use in Second Coil of Bahamut. I fell in love, and it has been my main ever since.

However, just playing the solo content and doing a round of Gubal (Hard), I am utterly bored. I feel like my damage is minuscule, and I run out of mp very fast. I suppose it'll be a learning curve, but I am seriously considering switching to AST just so I can feel useful again.

I will still take it to 70 to see if it gets better. But I am not very hopeful.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

After playing SCH in some dungeons, I can say the job has become terrible boring.

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I don't want to complain to much but...
Yeah, i must agree with that, unfortunately, for all the points everyone said... =/

My thoughts on SCH now are that AST now looks infinitely more appealing. I can understand why they decided to nerf us, but they just seemed to go overboard. To top it all off, they didn't really give us any exciting new tools as far as I'm concerned.

We get yet another situational spell on an arguably needlessly long CD that again uses a stack of Aetherflow (just make everything cost a stack of Aetherflow at this point, SE. You know you want to do it.). A fifteen second buff which, while a very good buff, is fifteen seconds long on a one hundred and twenty second cooldown. And to round it all out they gave us, a pet class, one new ability for our nerfed pets that -and granted I haven't been able to use it for myself yet- seems situational.

And then AST is over there with all their buffs and cool new shit.

Overcompensated is the best way I can describe anything about these balance changes.

Actually what I hate too is that they tried to homogenize all healer.
But scholar doesn't work like a whm and astrologian.


So our potencies got cut by half (fey illymination, aetherflow), because cross role abilities.
It has no sense. Scholar was fine with its initial toolkit...

Having lucid dream with aetherflow because aetherflow alone isn't enough anymore.
No need for largess however, but fey illumination is now at 10%.

And then of course, rip dots and aoe...
Adloquium at a higher cost, i don't understand why they made this choice? That was free to add more mp.

The new skills are great. Really.
But what I don't like is the removal and the change of all these little skills that made scholar so fun, awesome to play and unique.

I don't get it...

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

Actually what I hate too is that they tried to homogenize all healer.
But scholar doesn't work like a whm and astrologian.

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This. It feels like they took our active class and told us to sit in a corner. "Be more like your siblings, scholar! Stop being unique!"

So...how's summoner this patch? >_>

I just love that so many people feel the same way I do. And with my deepest sincerity, I'd like to apologize to all those who made SMN threads in this same regard. We just want the Job we've grown to love back.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

So...how's summoner this patch? >_>

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Awfully boring as well.

But hey, you get to summon Bahamut!!!!!11!1!1!

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Originally Posted by Eloah

I just love that so many people feel the same way I do. And with my deepest sincerity, I'd like to apologize to all those who made SMN threads in this same regard. We just want the Job we've grown to love back.

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Frankly, I'd be surprised if anyone genuinely liked the changes they made to Scholar at all

i cant believe it today was first time have gotten to play since early access started and i am really upset . i have been playing an sch since i was able to get it and now i cant even heal through a moderate boss fight . had been doing great in the past.

Scholar was a technical class. With the dumbing down of the class, can we still call it scholar?

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

So...how's summoner this patch? >_>

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

Awfully boring as well.
But hey, you get to summon Bahamut!!!!!11!1!1!

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Already played one on lvl 70 yet? : o

But well seems to be halfcutted opinions over there most player are sad bout loosing Dot management and aoe dmg some on the other hand said the flow with trance is more fluent and more frequent cause of shorter aetherskill cds - both sides agree it's more or less bout (ruin-)burst dmg loosing the priority system as well... no reports bout the utility side yet, but well it's just day 2 let's see bout that later...

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Originally Posted by Neela

Already played one on lvl 70 yet? : o

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No, but I played it in lvl 60. Believe me, the class doesn't change much if at all from 60 to 70. The mini burst from summoning Bahamut at lvl 70 does very little to change the class because you don't really do much else than pressing the same buttons you would be pressing anyways with an added Enkindle Bahamut twice.

Actually, the more SMN's level increases, the more boring it becomes, since you have to refresh Miasma III and Bio III even less due to their increased length, and with having the same duration, you'll always refresh them both at the same time. You're going to find yourself pressing the Ruin button over and over, sometimes pressing Ruin III, and you'll pretty much be able to set and forget the DoTs with Tri-D.

Even with the addition of Ruin IV, there's no proc we need to be mindful of because it automatically replaces Ruin and Ruin III. SMN's DPS rotation was as stripped of depth as SCH's in terms of GCD usage. Sure, there's more oGCDs to press, but even then, the CD reduction on Fester and Painflare, coupled with DWT resetting Tri-D's cooldown, made it so there's even less decision making behind playing the job. IMO, SMN is arguably the easiest DPS to play now. They just added the visual flare of Bahamut becoming manifest, which is cool, but... eh.

The change to Contagion is interesting, and in pure paper more beneficial than what it was before, specially because extending Miasma III and Bio III by 50% would be lol. But with how unresponsive Garuda is, it's more of an annoyance than a boost. You have to make her time it before you use Tri-D within DWT, but you only have one GCD to use Tri-D because you'll be busy spamming Ruin III after. So if Garuda takes her time (as she usually does), you'll end up with unbuffed DoTs. If you decide to do it early, you'll end up with an unbuffed Deathflare. Contagion should have a duration of 20s to offset the lack of AI responsiveness, but this is more a QoL issue than anything else.



TL;DR: yes, SMN's DPS is also as boring and superficial as SCH is, but without the added responsibility of healing.