SE made this game AST only, why?

I don't see it, WHM still is more powerful O.o has no one stoped and looked at HOW it works yet, other then a hand full of us...? -_- Like they said try it 1st if you can't see it, you will soon.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

You fail to mention how paladin can just as well do content as the other tank roles, creating just a bit of a false scenario, or at least a misleading one. It's not that paladin needed it, but content was certainly easier on other jobs. Yet, it was nowhere near impossible to do it on a job that would require better resource management or simply higher execution to do it.

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And here is the crux of their argument. The playerbase will generally slide towards the path of least resistance. If it's easier to do it with a different job, they will push people towards that job. Whereas the JP players likely accept the jobs people come with and work with them to get the clear, generally speaking NA players will ask for you to either change to that specific job (say DRK instead of PLD for Heavensward), or you won't get to go. Again, path of least resistance.

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Originally Posted by Hazuki87

I don't see it, WHM still is more powerful O.o has no one stoped and looked at HOW it works yet, other then a hand full of us...? -_- Like they said try it 1st if you can't see it, you will soon.

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Can you please explain how WHM is more powerful?

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Originally Posted by Rymm

I thought AoE damage was getting nerfed across the board for most classes/abilities?

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The nerfs to AoE potency was something that mainly impacted DPS jobs. In fact, both White Mage and Astrologian had their AoE damage buffed. White Mage can now use Assize every 60 seconds (previously 90) and Astrologian gained the ability to deal 200 potency of AoE damage every 60 seconds with Earthly Star. Scholar is the only healer that got their AoE damage reduced and by no small margin. Even without any direct change to Bane, Scholar still would have received a nerf due to Bio no longer existing as a separate DoT.

For the most part I don't have an issue with the Scholar changes and believe there is some overreacting going on, but I do think the change to Bane was a horrible idea.

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Originally Posted by Blueyes

The nerfs to AoE potency was something that mainly impacted DPS jobs. In fact, both White Mage and Astrologian had their AoE damage buffed.

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So basically, Scholar got shafted due to its class link to Summoner? Great, just great lol.

I'm not sure how in the world they'd think making the WHM's level 70 ability dependent on a 20% chance proc from an ability they're not even going to be spamming all the time was a good idea.

You're probably not even going to get a chance to use it even once against normal dungeon bosses in most cases.

Could this have something to do with the fact that Healer Dps now scales of Mind, ultimatively meaning that a Sch would have nearly the same dmg output as a Smn, despite beeing healer class?

I dont know, but adding in the removal of Attributes... this looks to me like they had to somehow balance the potential damage a Sch can do when comparing him to the Smn.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

If it's easier to do it with a different job, they will push people towards that job.

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And if it's easier to do with a job rather than a class, they will push people towards unlocking a job. Even if the content can be cleared with a class. And truth be told, the same goes for suboptimal rotations and stat setups (if we had any).

It's a fairly consistent process of urging people to please be as beneficial to the group as possible and it extends to pretty much any statistical advantage. And if you cannot fight that at one level, you need to fight that as a whole and that means creating a culture where people are fine with carrying people.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

And if you cannot fight that at one level, you need to fight that as a whole and that means creating a culture where people are fine with carrying people.

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Not an easy thing to do, though apparently Japan has this kind of culture.

The sustain part was a very odd choice, especially with Summoner and titan-egi (rip)

Maybe they want to encourage us dissipate the fairy before she actually dies (which is another sign that summoner and scholar should absolutely be seperated!).

Who needs a pet on a pet class anyway...

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

Could this have something to do with the fact that Healer Dps now scales of Mind, ultimatively meaning that a Sch would have nearly the same dmg output as a Smn, despite beeing healer class?

I dont know, but adding in the removal of Attributes... this looks to me like they had to somehow balance the potential damage a Sch can do when comparing him to the Smn.

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No you would use cleric stance which swapped mind with INT and got a 10% bonus damage

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

No you would use cleric stance which swapped mind with INT and got a 10% bonus damage

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But cleric is now lost, no?
Which means, that the Sch would have Good Heals and the same Dps as a Smn, simply because his Mind is now equal to the Smn's Int... or am i forgetting something?

Edit: "lost" in terms of "not longer needed for putting out damage"

You can now Heal and Dps at the same time on a scholar. If his damages scales with his Mind, just like his heals, he would ultimatively be as good as a Summoner - just with a healing pet.

I'll touch on some of the OP questions, even though I'm not one of the developers.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Re: Fluid Aura

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Utility skills shouldn't deal damage. This is also why knockbacks, stuns and silences no longer deal damage. It's more a parity thing and one that I feel makes sense.

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Re: Aetherflow nerf

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Likely to make MP conservation a thing for healers. Or did we forget all the jokes about how AST and SCH have infinite MP and WHM didn't?

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Re: Adloquium nerf

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This I'd bet is to make you use Adlo more sparingly. Basically, "don't spam it unless you actually need it", which would tell me they're trying to make you focus on throughput via direct heals rather than shields.

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Re: Bane nerf

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This is probably to dissuade people from AoE spams.

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Re: Virus, Sustain, Miasma II

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Virus was basically split between other roles. Sustain was kinda there, though I will agree that removing it hurts SMN more than SCH. Miasma II was there for semi-utility and was mostly useful in PvP (where skills are now set in a specific way, so it becomes moot either way).

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Re: Embrace nerf

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Again, they seem to want healers to focus on healing throughput. Nerfed faeries means you'll have to spend more time casting Physic. Assuming this works, it'll kill the jokes about how the fairy is the real healer.

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Re: Shadowflare change

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I'm assuming this is either more focus on the utility part of things or simply allowing SCH and SMN to use it at the beginning and then move on to their individual rotations of heals/damage spells.

Basically, what I'm getting out of the changes is "you had your fun pretending you were a DPS, now get in there and start healing".

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Originally Posted by Duelle

This I'd bet is to make you use Adlo more sparingly. Basically, "don't spam it unless you actually need it", which would tell me they're trying to make you focus on throughput via direct heals rather than shields.
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On SCH? What?

Think whms will be fairly great as dps bursts, I mean they where before but with cleric dancing gonzo and assize now 60s and can be reduced further with lilies, they'll be doing some pretty decent dps while more than comfortably healing everyone. Really only major iffy is that lilies and indulgence are still cure and cure II based, really at the very very very least cure III should also benefit while still keeping it to the cure spells, really need some kind of aoe heal that works with such.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Basically, what I'm getting out of the changes is "you had your fun pretending you were a DPS, now get in there and start healing".

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And unless the enemies are made to hit way harder (as in say, 5x harder), such that you need to focus on healing and not having time to weave in DPS, most people will still pretend to be DPS or be kicked for it...

Let's hope even trash mobs hit like trucks at 9001mph then...

Nice, SE did not give us a new healer to play with and they made sure we don't want to play the actual ones (cause yes, I know my classes and I know how to read an ability list)
"But don't worry we saw that healer tends to still play healers after HW" Yeah, well one more going to DPS for SB as you sure made me wanna stop healing

Hoo boy, I'm gonna miss bane.

But, I'm seeing that the issue is that SE wants healers to heal and not play DPS with some side heals. We all saw this coming with White Mage, but it's clear Scholar is getting the same tweaks. Oh well, I guess I'll all three healers again and pick a fave after again. I need them short queues.

(White Mage doesn't look so bad now :/)

Jesus... the xpac is only out for a few hours and already people are whining about everything. Ffs give it a chance. Get to max level and learn the class how its intended before u start complaining. People are acting like spoiled brats who didn't get all stuff they wished for. This is very disrespectful to the developers, too >.< Ok i'm done. *end rant*

Around the same or slightly better pure heals than the "pure healer" and best buffs in the game. Confessions still useless and lilies next to useless.

6/5 would level AST again.

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Originally Posted by xLucia

Jesus... the xpac is only out for a few hours and already people are whining about everything. Ffs give it a chance. Get to max level and learn the class how its intended before u start complaining. People are acting like spoiled brats who didn't get all stuff they wished for. This is very disrespectful to the developers, too >.< Ok i'm done. *end rant*

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You have acces to all the infos now.
Can't believe I had to remove my eye for an eye to get a cure.....I'm a fucking healer ! Why can't I cure people by default ?!

White Mage is clearly going through some growing pains, but it's been my job of choice since 1.0 beta. I'll stick with it unless I find I'm having a problem once I've reached 70 and tested everything. The level 70 skill looks annoying (too much RNG and keeping track of crap on people is not my forte since my vision sucks) but thin air, the new shield replacing stoneskin, stone iv and the cool downs from the lillies all look like things I'll enjoy. Only time will tell.

Don't count to much on the lilies, those things seem to proc as often as the Behemot FATE :/

The lily mechanic is trash. This is because it's not just use of Cure and Cure II. It's *heal* from Cure and Cure II. Whereas sch gauge and ast gauge both depend on things they actively use. They need to change this to a percentage that any heal will contribute to the lily gauge. Otherwise they're telling us we need to ignore our 7 (forgot Cure III, but then don't we all, haha) other heals that can heal if we want to benefit from this mechanic. For myself, it's going to remain ignored. Regen has been one of my bread and butter spells since I was a sprout whm. Cure and Cure II are not our bread and butter.

Lilies just need to be better. 3 lillies only cut down asylum by 20sec, from 90 to 70, sure its cool and all, but when you also use tetragram and other healing abilities, it just doesn't seem like they thought of lillies at all.

What they should do is make it so, lillies increase healing by 5%,10%,15%, using an ability that cost a lilie(s) only reduce 1 instead of 3, while still retaining the maximum effect of lower cooldown.


But that's just me.

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Originally Posted by RubenSnizzle

What they should do is make it so, lillies increase healing by 5%,10%,15%, using an ability that cost a lilie(s) only reduce 1 instead of 3, while still retaining the maximum effect of lower cooldown.

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I'd like this as well. I've suggested the second part, but the first part sounds nice as well. Personally I'd like some spell speed in there as well.

SCH is SO PAINFUL, (even worse then I thought it would be) I have no DPS, it made a 15-20 min DF into 30, back when I had bad DPS on wall, I could contribute enough where I was not running out of MP because the fights take so damn long, and this is with using lucid dreaming, the same thing happened on the niddy MSQ (ilevel 200 entry) I had to ask BLMs for that mp thing.

WHY nerf DPS so much.? so you can make the game fit for 70 cap? they did not do any testing what this does 1-60?

I do 2 dots, bane, and pretty much nothing after that (though I did try broil etc) and I just ... frustrated I can't do anything.

Bane + Shadow Flare is approximately the equivalent of casting Gravity four times over the course of 30 seconds. It's not quite as bad as you're expressing.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

SCH is SO PAINFUL, (even worse then I thought it would be) I have no DPS

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If you wanted a DPS class, maybe you should have not chosen a healer.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

If you wanted a DPS class, maybe you should have not chosen a healer.

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If I knew SE would gimp SCH to dirt I would leveled AST on my alt, so this is a way to make me buy a level potion now?

SCH is not fun anymore, there is NOTHING to do.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Also they kept deployment tactics as is but made eye for an eye a role class that we do not have room to take?
WHY?!?!!??!!!?!? where is the testing?!!?!!!!

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lul getting on game made me forget about this gem

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Originally Posted by Hamada

SCH is not fun anymore, there is NOTHING to do.

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You forgot the "for me."

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

That's on the players for thinking that the meta they formed is the only true way to play the game and try to force the developer to conform to their ideals.

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The devs birthed the DPSDPSDPS meta with Gordias and, to an only slightly lesser extent, Midas. As long as they continue to think DPS checks are primary mechanics, it will be meta.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

If you wanted a DPS class, maybe you should have not chosen a healer.

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Part of me is highly (and blindly) anticipating a significant change to the healer's role in the meta. Assuming the changes really are an attempt to move player mentality away from DPS, it'll be necessary for them to up the importance of healers in combat. I'd imagine the aggressive nature of people on the forums about it being "necessary" to DPS as a healer may have sparked these changes. I'm hoping that's not all they're going to do to make such a stance (again, if that is the case), but then again, half assed efforts aren't foreign here lol.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

These are choices made by a player to be optimized, because it is simply not required as per design. The issue is stemming from efficiency being enforced by other players as design. This is SE sighing and caving because players do not listen. You know, those kids that throw tantrums to get what they want and get it because parents are tired of dealing with it (or some other excuse). You fail to mention how paladin can just as well do content as the other tank roles, creating just a bit of a false scenario, or at least a misleading one. It's not that paladin needed it, but content was certainly easier on other jobs. Yet, it was nowhere near impossible to do it on a job that would require better resource management or simply higher execution to do it.

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The correlation you are attempting to draw doesn't make sense. You're essentially equating the playercase to toddlers for... discovering how to play the game better based on existing functionality? Paladin clearing content has nothing to do with this discussion nor does the meta. It's about basic adjustment using the tools provided. If I notice the outgoing damage is comparatively low relative to my defense and HP, why wouldn't I experiment with dropping tank stance? Since you brought up Savage, I'll cite A12S. On Warrior, I could time my cooldowns so I always had Holmgang available to eat Punishing Heat. What use is Defiance in a scenario where I cannot be killed? On Dark Knight, you could do the entire fight without turning on Grit once, even without a Ninja. All this demonstrations is the players responding to low tuned encounters. You acknowledge the flaws... but don't see the issue? Paladin required more from the raid than Warrior or Dark Knight while contributing less. It's human nature people were bias against it. That isn't going to change in Stormblood. In fact, multiple raid discords I am are discussing how viable double Paladin will be.

But again, let's move away from Savage. I queued into 50/60 roulette when the servers were up. What happened? The tank pulled everything and the healer DPS'd. Nothing changed. I would say it took longer, but Dragoon and Samurai are monstrously powerful now.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

If you wanted a DPS class, maybe you should have not chosen a healer.

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And when there is nothing to heal, what do you purpose I do? Uselessly cast Cure every time the tank takes a scratch? Stand idle and wait for some damage? This has been the fundamental problem. The devs won't make content require large amounts of healing or necessary damage mitigation, thus people DPS. You cannot fault the playerbase when they're simply using the functions provided to them.

I just dont understand why they took away the ability to heal our pets with the pet skill..I mean yeah you can heal your fairy with all your other healing skills as a scholar but we summoners dont have that luxury so how exactly do I keep up my pet now? You go around and introduce a new title for those that will do 200 floors solo in PotD yet I question how we are going to survive without being able to keep our tank pet alive? The question "Why?" is very good because I just see no reason to take away this skill. (But keep the one that only helps if you have a healer with you that even heals your pet..)

RIP Bane, but after looking at the new skills available to and the potency mods, I don't feel nearly as salty as I had just a few days ago.

My fairy's heal potency is down, but I can access the new Divine Seal.
My AoE damage is down, but Bio II is still instant, and both Ruins were buffed.
I lost Leeches, but I can equip Esuna on lower levels.
Aetherflow's MP restore is lower, but I now have access to the new Shroud.
And I never have to stance dance ever again and mistakenly have people die from me losing the rhythm since my damage and heal potencies are on the same stat.


I don't feel like I'm in a bad place at all. I just feel like I need to learn to use the new set of tools is all.

DPS need to adjust.

They can't balance healers to save their lives.

And then Yoshi has the nerve to make a joke of the WHM changes and simply tell us to calm down.
He created a fundamentally flawed system (lilies), and in response we have him a near 3000 post topic about why it's bad, and he shrugs it off.

I have no idea who's balancing the healers now, but they need to go.

please explain why spell stacking was also removed.
try to hotkey Bio 1 and Bio 2. wont let you, if you attempt to it auto scales the Bio 1 up to bio 2. so now, not only have they removed over half of what my SCH had to deal damage, your taking what little was left and telling me I cant even use that. When I run WHM I stack Areo 1,2,3 all on a mob. well because thats all we really have except for the pebble we get to toss at them.
so now our damage options are. Bio 2 (lower potency then Bio 1), Ruin 2, Miasma 1.. so do you expect people that are solo playing healers to pick up a brick and hurl it and hope it helps
okay so you tossed in one "damage" options in the role slot.. great, except you pretty much force us to use the role slots for things that should be standard to all healing classes.
so as a SCH prior to this, I could actually kill a mob and not stand there healing myself hoping the dots might kill it before Flares C/D resets

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Originally Posted by weaselwunder

When I run WHM I stack Areo 1,2,3 all on a mob.

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Aero now upgrades to Aero II, just like Bio upgrades to Bio II.

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Bio 2 (lower potency then Bio 1)

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Bio total potency: 240. Bio II: 350.

you missed the point. you can no longer equip all of them on the hotbar. no longer able to stack them on mob.