RIP Customization

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Originally Posted by Joe777

We did have The Keeper's Hymn to remedy such mistakes though.

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I don't understand your argument anymore. You're saying that putting stats outside of primary stat (And potentially BLM with a few in PIE if not a Dunesfolk) is a mistake that warrants remedy. That's not customziation ;_;

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

I don't understand your argument anymore. You're saying that putting stats outside of primary stat (And potentially BLM with a few in PIE if not a Dunesfolk) is a mistake that warrants remedy. That's not customziation ;_;

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If the stat did nothing for that job then yes it was a mistake. For Tanks there was STR, and for any other role there was VIT. Any stat beyond those was basically a wasted point, again unless you liked Piety as a magic user.

GOOD I am pleased that is has been removed. It was a load of nonsense

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

Most people put points into their main stat anyway. It looks like whoever designed it had intended us to have more points than we were getting, while setting a max stat cap so we could hit maybe a main stat and then choose extra health, mana, etc. Instead we just got enough points to keep up with the cap.

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It's a relic from 1.0, it was time to get rid of it.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

If the stat did nothing for that job then yes it was a mistake. For Tanks there was STR, and for any other role there was VIT. Any stat beyond those was basically a wasted point, again unless you liked Piety as a magic user.

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For tank there's VIT ever since it has been changed and for others no need VIT there's food and heal who of course take care of their team mate health before dpsing, right.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

If the stat did nothing for that job then yes it was a mistake. For Tanks there was STR, and for any other role there was VIT.

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Tanks would spec STR when it mattered and VIT was the wrong way to go about it. VIT was only specced at cutting edge world first clears of Savage content where you couldn't survive without it. Even then- that's not customization. That's a shoehorn. You HAD to spec Vit, it wasn't a choice. And then after 1 week everyone would go back to main stat.

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Originally Posted by Dustytome

Most people put points into their main stat anyway. It looks like whoever designed it had intended us to have more points than we were getting, while setting a max stat cap so we could hit maybe a main stat and then choose extra health, mana, etc. Instead we just got enough points to keep up with the cap.

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that is why it existed in 1.0 and why it worked for 1.0

in 2.0 + with how the system was made, it did not fit, it should of been removed in 2.0 along with the cross class system. They are doing it now because they finally realize it or was finally able to.

Good riddance. Everyone came down on you hard if you didn't just slot how you were expected to anyhow.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

that is why it existed in 1.0 and why it worked for 1.0

in 2.0 + with how the system was made, it did not fit, it should of been removed in 2.0 along with the cross class system. They are doing it now because they finally realize it or was finally able to.

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To me, it feels like;

• there was a transition from 1.x to 2.0 keeping some of the familiar with class combinations dovetailing into certain jobs
• 2.x to jumping straight into jobs in 3.0 with MCH, DRK and AST
• 3.x into 4 we do away with multiple classes to qualify for a job, classes are really not needed at all now.

Jobs are now advanced versions of the initial class, making class more of a tutorial into the job which you qualify for at lvl 30. Removing the multiple class requirements made cross class skills pointless, but role skills means that everyone in their role has access to the same basic tools of the trade. It feels to me like this was always on the cards from the start, but they did it slowly, perhaps so that they could initially keep some of the trappings of FFXIV 1.x?

Well, I don't think that 35 extra points will make any difference really. I've never understand why still exist on 3.0 launch.

Their really no choice in this game anyways if other stat actually did something for are jobs perhaps keep it. Materia is it not really a choice aither should revamp that system or get rid of it too imo /shrugs

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Originally Posted by odintius

Their really no choice in this game anyways if other stat actually did something for are jobs perhaps keep it. Materia is it not really a choice aither should revamp that system or get rid of it too imo /shrugs

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The main stats are at the cap anyway if you don't use crafted NQ gear. So materia is about secondary stats. Saying materia give no choices is therefor like gears with different secondary stats give no choices. So we should also remove all secondary stats.

Please, it was a false sense of customisation to begin with. Look up any Piety DRK thread or any like it and tell me honestly it was real.

YAY! As a Scholar and Summoner I hated how I had to switch the atributes or divide them.

Scholars and summoners rejoice!

Customization? FFXIV has never been about stat customization. There was little to no choice to begin with. Attribute Points were a false sense of diversity since there was always 1 best choice.

WOW, this is great for SMN and SCH :D

When I read posts like OP I think customization might not be a good idea for players.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

If I read the patch notes correctly the bonus Attribute Points have been removed, meaning we all will have the exact same stats as certain jobs. Sure it was a small thing but I liked my additional max HP :( Saved me from wiping on more than one occasion in fact.

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It wasn't really much customization to begin with. That said, I wish rather than eliminate the system wholesale, they'd strengthened it to really provide the customization that much of the community desires.

I think the only class that had freedom with the stat was BLM and putting into Piety to ensure MP was optimal range during rotation vs melding it into the gear. Either way, I say its a good change and will help out the SMN/SCH from having to keep buying those resets.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

If I read the patch notes correctly the bonus Attribute Points have been removed, meaning we all will have the exact same stats as certain jobs. Sure it was a small thing but I liked my additional max HP :( Saved me from wiping on more than one occasion in fact.

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Agreed in principle, but in practice it was an illusionary choice. For every class/job there was exactly one best way of spending the points - anything else was just gimping yourself pointlessly.

I'm glad they took that away. Now people are incapacitated from attempting stupid builds, and the rest won't have to allocate one main stat every level.

They should have just changed it to secondary stats instead. At least then there wouldn't be a completely terrible choice (there would still be a "correct" one though) and it would be a small amount of customisation.

Maybe give 2 points per level or something.

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Originally Posted by Felis

The main stats are at the cap anyway if you don't use crafted NQ gear. So materia is about secondary stats. Saying materia give no choices is therefor like gears with different secondary stats give no choices. So we should also remove all secondary stats.

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Yep don't see why they shouldn't it not like its a choice in which you chose for those secondary stats either for whichever (insert job) here. The way the gear is designed for each role its like the devs alrdy knew which materia that people are most likely going to use to begin with for each particular piece and in most cases can't even max those out just by looking at the meld #'s they offer.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

To me, it feels like;

• there was a transition from 1.x to 2.0 keeping some of the familiar with class combinations dovetailing into certain jobs
• 2.x to jumping straight into jobs in 3.0 with MCH, DRK and AST
• 3.x into 4 we do away with multiple classes to qualify for a job, classes are really not needed at all now.

Jobs are now advanced versions of the initial class, making class more of a tutorial into the job which you qualify for at lvl 30. Removing the multiple class requirements made cross class skills pointless, but role skills means that everyone in their role has access to the same basic tools of the trade. It feels to me like this was always on the cards from the start, but they did it slowly, perhaps so that they could initially keep some of the trappings of FFXIV 1.x?

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my guess is that was the goal but it was not achieved. That was the feel I got when I started 2.0, "Oh they are trying keep some 1.0 ties but this does not fit the game well" The reason I thought that so soon was ffiv 1.0 was built on the idea of making your own class basically. So when that was taken away then jobs get even less, it lost its purpose and trying to shoe horn a remembrance became pointless, same with the stat points.

So are these attribute points just being taken away, and now we're all essentially that much weaker? Or will they just be weaved into our main stat automatically, during leveling?

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

So are these attribute points just being taken away, and now we're all essentially that much weaker? Or will they just be weaved into our main stat automatically, during leveling?

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You'll essentially be weaker at 60 when you log in, but you'll level and get new gear that will more than compensate.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

You'll essentially be weaker at 60 when you log in, but you'll level and get new gear that will more than compensate.

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Wow that's disappointing. :<

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Originally Posted by Roda

Wow that's disappointing. :<

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Why? You'll hit for probably less than you'd actually notice if you didn't know this tidbit and will get stronger as you go.

Nevermind that materia with a stat already present in your gear = +0% when melded.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

You'll essentially be weaker at 60 when you log in, but you'll level and get new gear that will more than compensate.

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From 60 and up I expected the new content and gear would be balanced to expect that. But I was more thinking about the leveling experience from 1-60, where those points will make more of an impact.

Ahh, I doubt we'd really notice the difference while leveling.

As stated, the only players that benefitted were the bleeding edge world first teams, and now that we're about to rapidly outgrow and outgear the content that was tailored to include the addition of attribute points, we won't feel any sort of nerf at all.

It was also stated in the notes that exp in being boosted in general, and that the starting city-states will start selling level 50 gear and Ishgard level 60 gear to help push newer players forward.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

If I read the patch notes correctly the bonus Attribute Points have been removed, meaning we all will have the exact same stats as certain jobs. Sure it was a small thing but I liked my additional max HP :( Saved me from wiping on more than one occasion in fact.

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Meld vit on accessories and get the same effect as putting stats into vit.

I'm glad they're gone. Now I won't have to constantly be switching points between Mind and Intelligence for SCH and SMN.

Anyway haven't we said in Novice Network multiple times that your attribute points went into your main stat, Joe? Putting them into Vitality was gimping yourself, my dude.

All this effectively did was remove one chore and fix the SCH/SMN issue.

You never had an actual choice in how to allot these unless intentionally gimping oneself.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

So are these attribute points just being taken away, and now we're all essentially that much weaker? Or will they just be weaved into our main stat automatically, during leveling?

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I believe they increased the amount of stats your class traits give you to even out. I think with the numbers you actually end up with 36 instead of 35 extra points from traits now, so you're actually ahead 1.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

The reason for waiting to remove illusion of choice is to get rid of noob traps (I/e wide volley spamming brds)

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Well, get ready for their popcorn cone to only hit half the mob because they aren't standing close enough or for them to switch directions and shoot it off nowhere instead because they don't have to cast anymore. The only real disadvantage to wide volley is additional TP.

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Originally Posted by savageink

Well, get ready for their popcorn cone to only hit half the mob because they aren't standing close enough or for them to switch directions and shoot it off nowhere instead because they don't have to cast anymore. The only real disadvantage to wide volley is additional TP.

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They'll learn positioning, and the second is mechanically very difficult to pull off even when trying to - you either turn toward the mob you're trying to hit anyway (if the option to automatically face the target when performing an action is turned on) or can't use the ability, and once it's pressed even if you turn your character around the attack hits the area you were facing...in other words, the pack of mobs. The only way you'll face the "wrong" way is by targeting an enemy in the wrong spot and attacking them...which goes back to proper positioning, which they'll learn.

I think that depending on how much you were trying to push into content, there were potential situations that warranted the extra health, regardless of whatever people here are saying. It honestly wasn't a big deal, since they made stat swapping absurdly cheap at some point. I actually carried around 99 Keeper's Hymns for such things (although they mainly got used on arcanist for obvious reasons). I am no raider but I remember fights in the past where a temporary VIT allocation enabled me to survive where I hadn't been before. A lot of people seem to like to forget that dead DPS do no damage and dead healers do no healing.

As long as the devs avoid those kinds of situations from here on and they actually make those raid busters reasonably survivable by the non-tanks (maybe with VIT melds on accessories or something) this hopefully won't be as much of an issue in the future. For a while though, melds were not even possible on most dungeon-tier gear, meaning the options for surviving raid busters that you couldn't otherwise survive were rather slim -- it was either reallocate stats, or outright wear VIT accessories, and either way you'd be giving up your job's primary stat. The former option, however, didn't require you to go out and obtain more gear you might not already have had.

Eh, attribute points were always pointless, as you typically just put them in your main stat, and they were just annoying for people who wanted to play both SMN and SCH.

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Originally Posted by Azper

Attribute points represented one of many illusions of choice.

I'm glad they're gone.

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Exactly this. A useless feature just for the shake of "customisation". Yes it was an illusion and confused newcomers leading them to allocate the points towards the wrong stats.