Please do something about mentor roulette instant-leaves

I think mentor roulette needs adjusting. I shouldn't be put in someone's expert or lvl 60 roulette unless it's someone's first time in that instance

I seriously do NOT understand people's problem with Brayflox's Longstop. I have never had a problem with it. Is it because its long? I don't know, I hate AV far more than Bray, and I never leave the dungeon as tank. The 30 min spent waiting for the penalty, is the time could be spent finishing dungeon and getting glamour.

I LOVE Brayflox's Longstop, because of the Infantry glamour set (only wish it was also for discipline of magic as well - would have made killer RDM glamour).

I always leave in-prog on for mentor roulette, but lately I just get Dun Scaith or Wiping City at the last bosses. Sometimes I don't have to do anything at-all because you get people who start the fights without ready checks.

So, on the flip-side there are some inconsiderate people on the other end. It's not my loss.

But the ARR extremes sync'd I have stuck it out until we clear, and everything has been cleared these past few weeks with half or more getting achievements. Odin, Titan Ex, Shiva Ex, etc.

Just make any dungeon worth 5 mentor roulette credits. If it's the same 1 credit as 2 minute guildhest or 5 minute story trial, obviously some people will leave and will do something else or afk for half hour. Same issue with extreme trials, usually it 3-4 wipes and disbanding (on Chaos at least) and Mentor gets NO CREDIT even if he tried to teach people. So more and more mentors instaleave extremes now.

@SuperZay That's not a bad idea. Given the time differences between things you can run through the roulette (a hest vs. Dun Scaith in progress on the very first boss) it doesn't make sense that they'd all give you the same bonus. There are already systems that bonus you differently depends on content ran (Relic and Anima).
I'm not sure what they can do about Extremes tho. They have no way of knowing who tried to teach and knows the instance vs. a lot of Mentors who get into an ex trial and keep quiet - you're lucky they even know the fight themselves, not to mention willing to share that knowledge. They'd be getting the same bonus as mentors who actually tried to teach, and too often I go into an Ex in progress, only to find out some Mentors have been there from the beginning but it is I, after 20 minutes, who actually explains mechanics to the first timers.

Also a bonus for actual first-time clear would be nice as far as roulette-count go.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

They'd already get a penalty if they left the duty, realistically what else do you want them to do? If they were actually there as part of mentor roulette (you don't know for sure) then maybe the leave option should be removed for that particular roulette, but I can see that being abused/people refusing to do whatever until kicked (but at least you could report for non-participation then).

At the end of the day though, leaving a duty someone doesn't like is something both mentors AND non-mentors do.

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If a mentor leaves like this; just remove their mentor status for 1 month.

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Originally Posted by Capriana

I seriously do NOT understand people's problem with Brayflox's Longstop.

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The boss loot from Brayflox is part of the fast track gearing process, which means people grind it. Boy, is it a grind too. Dungeon is lengthy, there's a hard wipe pull that people constantly trigger, all three bosses have frustrating mechanics for the sake of having mechanics, etc. It's just not a fun dungeon to run, even without the burnout from grinding it.

At least it isn't Aurum Vale though.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

all three bosses have frustrating mechanics for the sake of having mechanics, etc.

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There are actually FOUR bosses: pelican, 2 drakes, eft and dragon. A half hour slog.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

If a mentor leaves like this; just remove their mentor status for 1 month.

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Sure we should do that, but we also should ban a whole account for 1 month, if it's a non mentor. You know for the balance of things, because god forbid somebody did have an actual reason to leave, while we're still assuming it's the dungeon itself and that's the only valid and truthful explanation.

Punishing who got kicked out is something better to not do, because you will punish even the people that got kicked for silly reasons, or no reason other than the lulz of doing it (the latter, if I recall correctly, is called "different playstyle" !).

Just because a person has their frown equipped doesn't mean they're doing mentor roulette. They not even be a pve mentor in the first place. More importantly mentors aren't personal servants. Them leaving a dungeon shouldn't be any different than another player leaving a dungeon.

So, I queued for mentor roulette yesterday. Zone in and it's Steps of Faith. It was me and two other people, a sprout and a WHM in ironworks gear. Two dps zoned in and out while I stood there asking FC mates to join and let them know what roles were needed. At last the party fills up and we start the duty.

The white mage struggled (they got the achievement when we cleared) and it was a heck of a mess, lots of deaths because adds were not being gathered up and cannoned down, but we cleared.

Yet there aren't any threads talking about this kind of duty, where a mentor stays, gets the party filled, and helps people clear it because it's just not outrageous enough. People come to the forums to complain, not to talk about what's going well.

If someone leaves, that's their option. They already get a penalty. Be grateful they're not turning off their system and forcing you to kick them instead.

SE already did something against this: the 30 minute Duty Finder penalty. I dont think SE can do more then that, if they introduced harsher penalty then those players will just force the party to kick them out. They will either pretend to be disconnected and wait till they are kicked or just not do anything and wait till 1 player leaves or they themselves are kicked from the group.

People are still doing this, I joined Brayflox Normal few days ago and I noticed that after the first boss the tank was disconnected. We waited for him to return, then when he logged back in he gets disconnected again. I have seen this tactic before, so I started to get suspicious of his actions, but I decided to give him the benefit of a doubt and we waited 5 more minutes for him. After the 5 minutes, he logged back in and started to ask us why we havent kicked him, we told him that we understand that sh*t happens. Just as we thought the dungeon run could continue, the tankj leaves the group. I have seen his name before and checked on Lodestone to confirm that the tank does play on my server. So after the dungeon run, I confronted him and asked what happend. He confessed that he wanted us to kick him, but everytime he came back online, he saw that we didnt kick him out. The reason why he wanted to be kicked: the two DPS players (who were newcomers) did not meet his standards when it came to dealing damage. Because of him, we wasted more then 15 minutes. I called him a twat and reported him.

So in other words, douchbags will be douchbags.

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Originally Posted by Capriana

I seriously do NOT understand people's problem with Brayflox's Longstop.

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If people play poorly, particularly where wandering around is concerned, it can take forever, plus it has four boss fights, where most dungeons have 3. And it has mechanics that make it hard for at least SCH healers (design flaw of no good cure for them at Brayflox level max).

If people wander, like in Stone Vigil and Aurum Vale, it can get really bad fast...especially with a truly new healer who could feel overwhelmed. None of the fights are hard, minus maybe the eft's AE since it can be hard to see and Aiatar's poison AE mechanic? Beyond that, don't wander around, stay on the tank, do your job. Not a tough gig really. If you wanted to clear the place out for loot, yeah...that would take a while because of the side encounters with goblins, the jungle coeurl miniboss, the entire swamp area, etc. You could turn it into a huge pain, but I never have. For early dungeons, I hate Brayflox less than Tam Tara and Cutters, for sure.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

So after the dungeon run, I confronted him and asked what happend. He confessed that he wanted us to kick him, but everytime he came back online, he saw that we didnt kick him out. The reason why he wanted to be kicked: the two DPS players (who were newcomers) did not meet his standards when it came to dealing damage. Because of him, we wasted more then 15 minutes. I called him a twat and reported him.

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yeah he disconnected so he wouldn't get the penalty. He just assumed everyone would have left the instance and it would be over and he would return to the world out of it, but you guys bucked the trend. I commend you for that. :)

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Originally Posted by Laerune

I called him a **** and reported him.

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But you can be reported for that too.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

There are actually FOUR bosses: pelican, 2 drakes, eft and dragon. A half hour slog.

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The first "boss" isn't an actual boss, it's just a glorified trash pull within a designated arena that has some basic mechanics. For comparison, look no further than the Ultima fight in Dun Scaith (formerly the succubus).

Best and only thing to do in that situation is /moonliftdance. Stupid situations require stupid dances.

Well one thing to note is that if your doing a mentor roulette, your just filling in slots for the other people but as a teacher arn't you? By selecting mentor roulette you are basically saying "I will do my best to teach and educate this run" while the other 3 may have just qued up for Satasha NM for the first time. So I feel you should probably get a stricter punishment for abandoning that run, even if its nothing more than the full 90minutes, weather you abandon, "d/c", or get kicked. If its a real emergency, then 90 minutes is a small price. Granted I am also on the same side who would rather not see mentors get any reward but the joy and satisfaction of being able to help, a shiny mount shouldn't be the reward for wanting to help people.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

My crown has a hammer on it, so it sure isn't for helping people with battle classes.

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What happens when they add a hammer class :P

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Filling queues is the point of the Leveling Roulette. But the point of Mentor Roulette is to have more of the people in duties be those who are willing to actively help mentor anyone needing it.

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Mentors will also gain access to Duty Roulette: Mentor, which assigns players to duties that are struggling to fill party member slots.

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Originally Posted by Tremara

The whole systems relys of the help of other ppl aka Veterans/Mentors. As a reward they get some glamour/mounts/the pleasure to help. If you increase the penalty Veterans/Mentors may think it's not so tempting anymore if they have to leave and get a 90mins penalty.

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Filling queues is the point of the mentor roulette, yes you will get people with bonus or leaf status but not all the time. Which is why I agree with the above quote. People that leave are defeating the object of the roulette. If you don't want to mentor any possible dungeon on the list then don't do the roulette.

The whole fault of mentoring in NA servers (maybe EU, don't know) is that it hinges heavily on people not being selfish. That's the only reason mentoring fails outside of the JP servers, for the most past. NA and EU don't work on something that is simply honor-based.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Filling queues is the point of the mentor roulette, yes you will get people with bonus or leaf status but not all the time. Which is why I agree with the above quote. People that leave are defeating the object of the roulette. If you don't want to mentor any possible dungeon on the list then don't do the roulette.

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I could be mistaken but I think you have a higher chance to get into a queue if there're first timers, or sprouts/flowers in that instance, than you would other instances. I certainly get more first timer bonus from that roulette than anything else I run.
Either way, even if it is just to fill queues, Mentors are still, by definition, expected to help newer players with the game, so way I see it, actively teaching an instance is expected of you even if it's not explicitly stated in regards to that specific roulette. That's what you're supposed to do as a Mentor regardless of where you are, after all.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

I could be mistaken but I think you have a higher chance to get into a queue if there're first timers, or sprouts/flowers in that instance, than you would other instances. I certainly get more first timer bonus from that roulette than anything else I run.
Either way, even if it is just to fill queues, Mentors are still, by definition, expected to help newer players with the game, so way I see it, actively teaching an instance is expected of you even if it's not explicitly stated in regards to that specific roulette. That's what you're supposed to do as a Mentor regardless of where you are, after all.

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Mentors will also gain access to Duty Roulette: Mentor, which assigns players to duties that are struggling to fill party member slots.

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http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...d0980ac2b5a39c

I am only going by the update notes of 3.2 and the description. Everyone else who adds it's for first timers, novices etc are just surmising.


That's why I said

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"If you don't want to mentor any possible dungeon on the list then don't do the roulette.

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I can only go by the 50 odd runs I did when Nidhogg was relevant, as I got sick to death of getting that instance every time and it going horribly wrong. Quite a lot of the runs there was no bonus.

Queue the mentor roulette, text says, is going to reach "struggling to fill" parties so the worst have to be expected.

Whatever is wrong with those parties, the mentor may give help but when met with "I play as I want" answers, Mentor may judge the party doesn't want (or need) a Mentor and oblige them.

Just up the leave penalty. 30 mins is way too short, needs to be more punishing. 2 hours imo

I agree the leave option should be removed in dungeons since a lot of people leave if someone is new the dungeon if I get something I don't like and there's new people in it I still stay and teach the new people the dungeon raid or trial

If you remove the "leave" option people will literally turn the game off.

People already do that now if the party rejects a move to abandon.

Sometimes the mentor, with the greater amount of experience running content, can assess the situation is bad enough a particular group isn't going to clear. The majority remains hopeful and rejects the vote because they don't know what they don't know.

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Originally Posted by ClaireRefield

I agree the leave option should be removed in dungeons since a lot of people leave if someone is new the dungeon if I get something I don't like and there's new people in it I still stay and teach the new people the dungeon raid or trial

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No, leave has to stay an option. I know its frustrating when people leave because someone is new or doesnt like the dungeon, but thats still prefered over them demanding to be kicked, faking a DC (and hoping for a kick then) or just afk'ing/doing nothing to contribute to the dungeon at all. If someone leaves you can at least look for a replacement at once and the person who left gets their penalty as punishment (if someone gets kicked they dont get the penalty).
But it also has to be an option so people can get out of abusive situations or parties harrassing them (without having to shut the game down completly).

People need to be allowed the choice to get out of dungeons if they want to - at a cost, which is the penalty that is already in place, but forcing people to spend their time with content they dont want to do (wether thats because of the content or the people they get paired with doesnt matter) cant and shouldnt be the solution. Removing the "leave"-option will make things worse, not better.

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Originally Posted by ClaireRefield

I agree the leave option should be removed in dungeons since a lot of people leave if someone is new the dungeon if I get something I don't like and there's new people in it I still stay and teach the new people the dungeon raid or trial

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Even if they removed the leave option (which they would never do), people would just log off or go afk till you kicked them if they didnt like the dungeon

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus_Mercy

Even if they removed the leave option (which they would never do), people would just log off or go afk till you kicked them if they didnt like the dungeon

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they could add an afk reason toggle which adds the same punishment during a kick. but of course that depends on people not lying.

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Originally Posted by savageink

they could add an afk reason toggle which adds the same punishment during a kick. but of course that depends on people not lying.

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It'll never happen. It's just not realistic to even consider.

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus_Mercy

It'll never happen. It's just not realistic to even consider.

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lol! most of this stuff will never happen. doesn't mean it can't be considered.

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Originally Posted by savageink

lol! most of this stuff will never happen. doesn't mean it can't be considered.

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Putting the power to not only kick players from a group, but to also inflict the penalty on them in the hands of players is a non-starter. It's not worth considering or suggesting because it would never happen. I often /facepalm when I see people make suggestions like "scrap <system I don't like> and rebuild it like <rants on with overly complex system>". If someone is going to make a suggestion for something in an MMO, they need keep it within the realm of things the devs would reasonably consider. Otherwise they're just making noise.

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus_Mercy

Putting the power to not only kick players from a group, but to also inflict the penalty on them in the hands of players is a non-starter. It's not worth considering or suggesting because it would never happen. I often /facepalm when I see people make suggestions like "scrap <system I don't like> and rebuild it like <rants on with overly complex system>". If someone is going to make a suggestion for something in an MMO, they need keep it within the realm of things the devs would reasonably consider. Otherwise they're just making noise.

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nice to know that your opinion of what is worthwhile is exactly the same as the devs. I'll be sure to run everything past you in the future.

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Originally Posted by savageink

nice to know that your opinion of what is worthwhile is exactly the same as the devs. I'll be sure to run everything past you in the future.

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I can't claim that my opinion is the same as the devs. I can only go by two decades of experience both playing games and helping develop some. There are certain things that are just not realistic to ask for in an MMO. Like asking for a button that gives you enough gil to hit the cap. Or a button that auto demolishes another player's home so you can take it. Asking for the devs to give players the power to inflict the dungeon penalty on others is equally unrealistic.

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus_Mercy

I can't claim that my opinion is the same as the devs. I can only go by two decades of experience both playing games and helping develop some. There are certain things that are just not realistic to ask for in an MMO. Like asking for a button that gives you enough gil to hit the cap. Or a button that auto demolishes another player's home so you can take it. Asking for the devs to give players the power to inflict the dungeon penalty on others is equally unrealistic.

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Yawn! You're seriously going to go all in on the BS? The first two are fake ridiculous examples. Players are given options to give penalties to other players all the time. What do you think a kick is? Or reporting for RMT? To not put it in the "realistic" ballpark, just makes me think you are one of the AFKers trying to protect yourself. And don't think that telling me you played video games for 20 years impresses me. I have shoes older then that.

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Originally Posted by savageink

Yawn! You're seriously going to go all in on the BS? The first two are fake ridiculous examples. Players are given options to give penalties to other players all the time. What do you think a kick is? Or reporting for RMT? To not put it in the "realistic" ballpark, just makes me think you are one of the AFKers trying to protect yourself. And don't think that telling me you played video games for 20 years impresses me. I have shoes older then that.

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You are free to think what you like.

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus_Mercy

You are free to think what you like.

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That's all I was asking for in the first place.

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Originally Posted by savageink

That's all I was asking for in the first place.

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You're free to have an opinion and he's free to tell you what he thinks of your opinion. Thats pretty much the underlying reality of debate.