Allow MSQ Fast Track To Latest Expansion

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

I also don't get this hate for jump potions. It is a win win for everyone. <skip> This only allows the game to grow because it keeps the revolving door of MMORPGs turning. People leave MMORPGs all the time but you don't want to make it difficult for new players taking their place to join.

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I very much doubt people are going to sign up for a subscription MMO because it now provides the option to pay extra to skip a huge chunk of it.
Skipping portions of the story isn't a major problem, charging people extra to do it is though.

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

More growth and money for the developers means more and faster content for everyone.

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Content patches have stayed roughly the same size and been delivered at roughly the same rate for the entirety of the games life after relaunch, both before and after the cash shop, and despite the shops ever growing size. More money for SE means more money for SE, nothing more, nothing less. No one is doing us a favour by using the mogstation.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

It's amazing the number of times I've seen players say "Oh, I don't like the story in this game at all, so I just skip past all the dialog and cutscenes." If they're skipping past it, then clearly they don't even know what the story is, so how could they possibly decide whether they do or don't like it?

Anyway, if a story jump potion were ever to be added (which I hope it never is), there shouldn't be any story summary. You play through the story and find out what the story is about, or you skip it and don't. Any summary that actually covers the plotline is going to be just as long as that plotline it's replacing, since there's hardly any filler there to begin with.

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As long as it doesn't impact my play experience I don't mind a summary. Something like a 'story so far' thing on the website or something that allowed you to read up summaries in chapters to get up to date would probably be a useful refresher for existing players as well as new players who skip. Such a summary wouldn't eat much into the developers time or cost a great deal. There are actually fanmade summaries already (for example The Lore Train on gamer escape or Ethys Asher's ARR abridged series). However I don't want them to bend over backwards or spend a great deal of resources accomplishing it. I certainly don't want them to draw out my current player investment in the story to accommodate others. If they want to jump in the deep end let them.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

I very much doubt people are going to sign up for a subscription MMO because it now provides the option to pay extra to skip a huge chunk of it. Skipping portions of the story isn't a major problem, charging people extra to do it is though.

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I am not really sold on the model they are offering. Frankly I don't really see a need for a lvl Jump potion at this point for example. I also think that it would make more sense to include a story jump potion if it was introduced with an expansion set as part of its cost rather than selling it separately as for the most part only people buying an expansion would need it.

I can however see an argument for charging for a story job potion outside of an expansion set. The existing concept of a story Jump potion is to jump you to the start of the current expansion. Currently the existing story structure does act as a blocking mechanism for a lot of RMT and bots since it actually requires a degree of playing and money investment to access the higher areas. This is probably why they chose to include HW with the expansion set rather than the base ARR game.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Content patches have stayed roughly the same size and been delivered at roughly the same rate for the entirety of the games life after relaunch, both before and after the cash shop, and despite the shops ever growing size. More money for SE means more money for SE, nothing more, nothing less. No one is doing us a favour by using the mogstation.

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This isn't entirely true. As a rule trying new stuff is almost always more resource consuming than sticking to what you already are doing. In addition to that we are getting some pretty major and costly infrastructure upgrades. Note that the EU datacentre didn't become a thing until the cash shop became a thing. They even outright stated that the cash shop revenue payed for a good deal of the cost of building the EU datacentre.

Content release quantity is more limited by the availability of staff with the right skill set and experience to be hired rather than the funds involved. SE has been hiring for a while now for FF14.

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Originally Posted by LunaFaye

If you start a new character and skip everything and only focus on MSQ and dungeon unlocks, you can get from 1-60 and even gear in ilvl 230-260 gear within 2 weeks, and that's when playing only 4 or 5 hours every day. Done it with alts lately and it isn't big a deal. With potd even faster if you chose to do that, but then you will have to back track and do MSQ/Job Quests and unlock quests, which will most likely take much longer than just rushing through with skipping.

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I don't think it's as trivial as you make it out to be, for a variety of reasons.

(1) Most people won't skip everything and purely focus on MSQ and dungeon unlocks. Not to say they can't, but most won't. Forcing players into a choice between taking reasonable amounts of time and stopping to smell the roses even a little bit isn't appropriate.

(2) Most people returning from lengthy breaks aren't as familiar with the process as you are. That's going to add time.

(3) Even by your (exceedingly conservative) estimate, you're still talking (4.5 hours/day on average) * (14 days) = 63 hours. Many people can't devote 4.5 hours per day to the game, though; if they're playing, say, 10 hours a week, it's over a month and a half JUST to get through the Heavensward story and gear up to i230 / i260. That's ridiculous.

In short, your tossed-off 2 week figure is relevant for people who know exactly what they're doing, aren't spending idle time on other tasks, and have significant amounts of time to devote to FFXIV. If all gamers fell into this category, I'd agree that the storyline setup is rather appropriate. Given this isn't the reality, though, I think jumping potions are needed at this point for SE to combat the grind.

Those same people that want to skip everything and go straight to "end game" will find out that there not much of end game and not exciting for long and will be the same one that will quit after only playing a couple months. So either way those people are going to quit anyways.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

(3) Even by your (exceedingly conservative) estimate, you're still talking (4.5 hours/day on average) * (14 days) = 63 hours. Many people can't devote 4.5 hours per day to the game, though; if they're playing, say, 10 hours a week, it's over a month and a half JUST to get through the Heavensward story and gear up to i230 / i260. That's ridiculous.

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It's like MMOs are meant to be a time sink, and the time sink we have these days is nothing like the days of old (in other MMOs) where leveling to max level took months.

Honestly if people don't like the idea of time sinks in an MMO then why play an MMO. Seems pretty counterproductive to me.

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus_Mercy

I don't like the idea of people outright SKIPPING the story. The story is the whole point of FFXIV. It's the very meat and potatoes of the game.

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I keep seeing this line of argument, and I cannot see how anyone can come up with this conclusion?
This is an MMO, and the object of the team is to get you to keep logging in via any one or all of the systems in place to do so, like dailies/weeklies, achieves, progression, rep grinds and so on... Now the MSQ is won-and-done so to speak, so by its very definition, not possible to be one of those systems to keep you logging in month after month.
I am sure there are people that only play the game for the MSQ, but its hard to believe that's the focus of the game.. It makes no sense. :confused:

For some games like ESO where the story is trash I'd completely agree. However I must say that such an impimentation would seriously be cheating players out of the story.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

I don't think it's as trivial as you make it out to be, for a variety of reasons.

(1) Most people won't skip everything and purely focus on MSQ and dungeon unlocks. Not to say they can't, but most won't. Forcing players into a choice between taking reasonable amounts of time and stopping to smell the roses even a little bit isn't appropriate.

(2) Most people returning from lengthy breaks aren't as familiar with the process as you are. That's going to add time.

(3) Even by your (exceedingly conservative) estimate, you're still talking (4.5 hours/day on average) * (14 days) = 63 hours. Many people can't devote 4.5 hours per day to the game, though; if they're playing, say, 10 hours a week, it's over a month and a half JUST to get through the Heavensward story and gear up to i230 / i260. That's ridiculous.

In short, your tossed-off 2 week figure is relevant for people who know exactly what they're doing, aren't spending idle time on other tasks, and have significant amounts of time to devote to FFXIV. If all gamers fell into this category, I'd agree that the storyline setup is rather appropriate. Given this isn't the reality, though, I think jumping potions are needed at this point for SE to combat the grind.

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I based it on the OP's question/suggestion. I don't think that his returning friends are not even falling in the non casual category, that would be the category you're trying to explain here, because if that would be the case the OP probably wouldn't be worried about his/her friends returning and trying to be ready for the expansion, if they would just play 10 hours a week. As well as he/she mentioned returning, meaning that they will know what they are doing, or the OP knows how the game works and can lead his/her friends in the right direction. I wasn't talking about players that just started for the first time and I was also not telling these kind of people that they should be skipping everything.

But to go with your example, even it it then would take a month, that's faster then we have done it. There was no exp bonus and such things, and it actually was a grind compared to today's leveling. And while I mentioned that I am not against the potion (if you would have not quoted half of the sentence), it's still not necessary or as high priority as you are trying to make it sound like. IF his/her friends would return now, they be not only geared, but having multiple characters till stormblood and wouldn't have to hope that this potion gets released way later down the line, if even at all.

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Originally Posted by Lambadelta

It's like MMOs are meant to be a time sink, and the time sink we have these days is nothing like the days of old (in other MMOs) where leveling to max level took months.

Honestly if people don't like the idea of time sinks in an MMO then why play an MMO. Seems pretty counterproductive to me.

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It tends to be more about doing the stuff the people you socialise are doing than having an issue with a time sink. MMOs are fundamentally a social game platform and the levelling process can feel very much like a single player game with a chat function. Doing treasure hunts or running dungeons or raids for loot with friends is always more entertaining than doing it on your own or with a pug of strangers.

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

far behind on the MSQ that it would take quit a grind to catch back up.

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And then?

There will be still a grind as they are far behind with gear progression, whoich would be mandatory to upgrade before they can start over into the expansion.

As seen before at the release of Heavensward, the quests will get additional gear rewards to finally be ready for entering the new areas.

And as the Heavensward MSQ is done very fast compared to the ARR ones, this will be the fastest way to get ready for Stormblood.

I really think SE needs to take out the chunk of no point filler quests between the end of ARR and Heavenward. They are extremely boring and I dread when fellow new FC members and friends happen to get to that point in the MSQ. It needs to be shortened...If they add a story skip potion and a level boost potion I think its only fair to package it with the next expansion after SB so that as a veteran I can story skip an alt & level boost on another server. The people who want to see the story will see the story but the new players who don't often just stop playing altogether and not come back. There are also players who skip all story and dialogue like I do since I enjoy the other content of the game and I feel the MSQ takes me away from that. I usually listen to the voice acted bits though but if it is not which is majority the game then it doesn't hold my attention. I listen to podcasts to kind of keep up with whats going on in the story instead. So in a way, I kind of see both sides of the potion debate.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

I very much doubt people are going to sign up for a subscription MMO because it now provides the option to pay extra to skip a huge chunk of it.
Skipping portions of the story isn't a major problem, charging people extra to do it is though.

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You would be very surprised. I mean, look at the sheer amount of money people sink into mobile games.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Those same people that want to skip everything and go straight to "end game" will find out that there not much of end game and not exciting for long and will be the same one that will quit after only playing a couple months. So either way those people are going to quit anyways.

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Not necessarily. Some players only care about gameplay yet will spend an absurd amount of time playing it. I know plenty who jump into Savage pugs constantly or level multiple jobs to try something different yet they don't give a hoot about story.

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Originally Posted by AureliusDraconium

I really think SE needs to take out the chunk of no point filler quests between the end of ARR and Heavenward. .

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This necessitates massive rewrites, new animations and coding. Attempting to Frankenstein the remnants together is no small feat. And that doesn't even cover what would be deemed "filler." I'll say the entire Company of Heroes arc is a boring slog yet maybe someone fancied parts of it. I know a few people who hated the Ishgard politicking with the exception of Haurchefant scenes. Likewise, I know others who liked 2.1-2.3 whereas many consider awful. Putting all that aside, cost is the biggest hurdle. The devs are given a budget. Any adjustments to old content comes out of those resources, thus we'll inevitably lose new content for amendments none of us will ever see unless we make an alt. At least a skip potion solves without impacting veteran players.

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

I have friends who would be interested in coming back for the new expansion but will not because they are so far behind on the MSQ that it would take quit a grind to catch back up. I really think this is a oversight in the expansion process of this game compared to other MMORPGs. A new expansion is bringing people back because they are interested in the content of that expansion but instead they get stuck in dead ghost towns of previous content and once they finally catch up everyone is in the new expansion content is done with it.

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Here we go again...

http://i.imgur.com/4MQjZrZ.jpg

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Originally Posted by AureliusDraconium

I really think SE needs to take out the chunk of no point filler quests between the end of ARR and Heavenward.

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So picking up tea and helping Tataru with trying different professions. Less than a dozen quests out of the 100.

The rest? It's all relevant. It's all building on past events and toward future stories. Even the hide and seek with the Doman kids which helped establish the kind of ruthless environment they came from (the life or death hiding obfuscated as a game for the benefit of the children) several years before we're actually headed there.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

So picking up tea and helping Tataru with trying different professions. Less than a dozen quests out of the 100.

The rest? It's all relevant. It's all building on past events and toward future stories. Even the hide and seek with the Doman kids which helped establish the kind of ruthless environment they came from (the life or death hiding obfuscated as a game for the benefit of the children) several years before we're actually headed there.

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I think what Aurelius means is that this background information needs to be delivered through other means, either through side story quests or implicit throughout the currently relevant events.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Not necessarily. Some players only care about gameplay yet will spend an absurd amount of time playing it. I know plenty who jump into Savage pugs constantly or level multiple jobs to try something different yet they don't give a hoot about story.

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Yes there are but there also known to be plenty of people that are "patch subbers" or w/e you want to call them. They rush through all the content and then say there nothing to do is what I was getting at. But I guess as far as OP friends if someone has already played the game and they unsubbed for w/e reason, those reason they unsubbed are still going to be there cause not like XIV has changed much up.

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Originally Posted by AureliusDraconium

If they add a story skip potion and a level boost potion I think its only fair to package it with the next expansion after SB so that as a veteran I can story skip an alt & level boost on another server.

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If they did do that pretty sure it would be part of the the more expensive CE version and not the standard version.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I think what Aurelius means is that this background information needs to be delivered through other means, either through side story quests or implicit throughout the currently relevant events.

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Then you get no foreshadowing and instead new issues pop up with no lead-in or establishing set of events. That's amateur story telling at best.

That said, that isn't what they meant. They believe that stuff isn't important and exists solely to pad out how long we play.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I also think that it would make more sense to include a story jump potion if it was introduced with an expansion set as part of its cost rather than selling it separately as for the most part only people buying an expansion would need it.

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I don't think it should ever be sold along with any part of the game itself. If it ever is sold, it would have to be separate, to avoid giving the impression it comes with the game as part of how the game is played. It's definitely not how the game is played and never will be, because it's only a way of avoiding playing the game.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

I don't think it should ever be sold along with any part of the game itself. If it ever is sold, it would have to be separate, to avoid giving the impression it comes with the game as part of how the game is played. It's definitely not how the game is played and never will be, because it's only a way of avoiding playing the game.

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Like it or not, this game will eventually follow the model of others before it. Bundling boosts with the new expac is common for a reason on MMO's once they're so many years old.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

Like it or not, this game will eventually follow the model of others before it. Bundling boosts with the new expac is common for a reason on MMO's once they're so many years old.

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Well this is the same company did made FFXI and don't think XI ever had/has any type of jump or insta-level potion. But even if they do I still say don't count it being part of the standard version, it most likely be with the expensive CE version you know the ones that come with the statue and cost $150+

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Unless your friends only play like one day a week they could come back now and easily have the MSQ finished by the time SB launches.

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That's debatable.

I'm doing that - but I had a head start, I had finished 2.0 before I left the game some time back.

From 2.0 to 3.0 is a lot of quests and dungeons - about 100 quests. And they give enough gear to complete them.

But once you finish 3.0... from there to the end of 3.5.6 (or whatever the current number is), you must reach iLevel 230 before doing some dungeons, but you hit 60 and finish 3.0 at about 142-150 iLevel, IF you ALSO too the time to grind PotD for a kinna iLevel 255 weapon.

You will be blocked pretty quickly into the post-3.0 MSQs unless you do some side tasks to get gear. Hunts, roulette dungeons, etc... and PotD (which gives 60 lore, 30 script tomestones per 10 levels if you go as a level 60).
- That all slows down the ability to do the MSQ.

You need to be a very active player to do all of that quickly and get to iLevel 230 so you can finish the quests.
- And the roulettes... they are gated behind having completed lots of side-dungeons. I unlocked the level 50 roulette. It took me almost all of last weekend to do all of those dungeons that had not been a part of the 2.x MSQ... again doing 15+ dungeons in a day and a half is not something most players will do...
(particularly when half the dungeons are full of people who get rude when they realize you're new and aren't "doing it right". I've had a few cases of healers standing AFK waiting for me to wipe, and in one case the DPS as well, because I didn't do a mechanic the way "the community" does it... without offering any tips or explanations. I have a thick skin, I've been a tank since 2004... but a lot of players will give up when this kind of stuff occurs).
- If that happens in a dungeon needed for MSQ... people might give up 'on the way' through.

You can do it... but it's not easy or 'casual'... you need to sit down every session with a plan in mind for how to get as far through the MSQ as possible that day... including side quests/dungeons for gear to unlock the next MSQ step... If you're sending a friend in right now... help them with some good guides and websites like consolegameswiki or they won't make it by Stormblood launch.

I have never understood the casual/don't want to spend time doing stuff when comes to a mmo I gave always viewed them as a time sink a BIG time sink. To many people impatient these days.

Nope.

This is a game built on the story and the story is IMPORTANT.

You can cut out lots of filler stuff, but not the main story line.

I understand it's a lot of catching up, I'm against the option of catching up. However I do like the idea having access to a story summary. What new expansions should do in the future is provide some content for lower levels to enjoy. I think FF11 did this pretty well. CoP's early missions required level 30. The new jobs in ToAU, WotG, and SoU all had extra jobs accessible to players without requiring story progression. Difficulty of unlocking those jobs varied, but all possible.