[Spoiler] Support Papalymo for 4.0!

"Sometimes... dead... is better!"
-Pet Sematary

Honestly, if they just bring him back as a villain's hollowed-out handpuppet, that would be the best use of a lalafel ever.

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Originally Posted by stanrir

well if thats the case we should bring back Yda too and get rid of this Lice that has taken her place!

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We never knew Yda. Even 1.0 players only would have seen the real Yda in echo visions. To the WoL the Yda they have always known has been Lyse. Same character. It is just a name change and she decided to stop wearing her sister's hat. You cant bring back a character that has never been here.

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Originally Posted by Atlaworks

This implies Minfilia was ever useful.

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Whenever people say this I find myself saying the same thing. They clearly don't understand the value of good management in an organisation. Realistically since Minfilia left the Scions are far less efficient and organised. Everyone is in touch but they are all pretty much off doing their own things. Its more like a loose collection of associates with a shared goal than an organisation now.

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/...s-dead-jim.jpg

Nothing you can do!

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Whenever people say this I find myself saying the same thing. They clearly don't understand the value of good management in an organisation. Realistically since Minfilia left the Scions are far less efficient and organised. Everyone is in touch but they are all pretty much off doing their own things. Its more like a loose collection of associates with a shared goal than an organisation now.

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This implies the Scions were ever organized.

Why do you guys assume Papalymo is dead?

Have you not learned from 1.0's Dalamud and Bahamut? :P

[spoiler] Papalymo will be O11 Boss as pawn of Omega!

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Originally Posted by Atlaworks

This implies the Scions were ever organized.

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They were very organised. Each Archon worked with Minfilia to co-ordinate with each other and ensure everyone had the resources they needed. There was also quite a lot of support behind the scenes, gathering information such as hiring scholars to measure Aetheric levels around Eorzea, organising bodyguards for those scholars, tracking information on the movements of crystal shipments, monitoring beast tribe activity, maintaining dialog with the separate city states, dealing with bureaucratic issues and insuring that scion agents had access and authorisation to operate in areas they needed to work in and sending the lesser scions to deal with minor situations which didn't require an Archon or the WoL's attention. Those people hanging around the Waking Sands and Rising Stones weren't just there for window dressing. They were active scion members.

The best Managers are the ones who handle most of the stuff so you never even have to know about it and can just get on with your job. Where did you think the info on the Aetheric spike in the Twelveswood that indicated that King Moogle Mog had been summoned came from? How many forms has the WoL ever had to fill in when working for the Scions within City State territories?

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

It was bad enough that they killed everyone off just prior to 3.0 only to SURPRISE THEY ALL SURVIVED later. Let's not keep doing that same stupid thing. It cheapens deaths as a plot device and ruins the story.

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But the only person with a dead scene at the end of 2.5 was the Sultana.
I don't know why people thought they died instead of just went missing.

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Originally Posted by Mysticales

Ok, well just thought Id put a thread up since we do not know WHAT 4.0 has in store for us.. however I would like to cast my vote to not kill off Papalymo! I mean if we can have Minfilia stay around.... Not to mention Thancred

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I have not finished the 2nd part of the 3.5 story yet, but is Minfilia already back from her travel to the other world?

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Originally Posted by Belhi

They were very organised.

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Weren't organized enough to keep Livia sas Junius from kicking their shite in.

Personally... I miss Ilberd, he was interesting villain with short lived antagonizing period, but effective and memorable. I miss Teledji Adeledji, he did so much damage in such short time and it was nice seeing enemy of another enemy, I miss... alright, sort of miss Lahabrea because dang it, he was our villain, ours to take, not that old man's target. I want my kill, he did kill steal and I'm salty about it. I miss Regula cause the moment we saw somewhat gray painted 'villain' and they got offed. I miss having interesting villains that stay for longer than a patch scenario, villains that make me want to see what their next move is, will they change, will they get worse, will they redeem, some that are less magical and more personal driven. (not counting Laha obviously) So no, I don't miss Papalymo. I rather had all these others lived longer to see them do more. What would the scions do beyond react as if I'm hardly there and sending me to fetch quests? Paps was one of my more liked scions but I'm not heartbroken over his death. I rather not have his sacrifice be cheapened with a miracle return.

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Originally Posted by Atlaworks

Weren't organized enough to keep Livia sas Junius from kicking their shite in.

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That was because the Scions were betrayed from within by a Thancred possessed Ascian. It was an extremely ballsy move by Garlemald. The guards at Vesper Bay didn't even see the attack due to Ascian assistance.

Whoever done Coil, knows what it can happen with certain spells.

Wasn't it pretty explicit that the spell Papalymo used killed him?

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Whoever done Coil, knows what it can happen with certain spells.

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The ritual in that case failed before it was complete.

Papalymo completed his ritual.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

However, Papalymo's death doesn't signify anything that important to the narrative or the plot. Papalymo's death pales in comparison. Its wasted potential. He wasn't developed enough, and we didn't have enough investment in him emotionally to be strongly affected by his death.

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And THIS is what I am talking about. In 1.0 he seemed to have more of a role. More story and participation that was oddly lost when we got to 2.0. Now its like he finally has something going and then instantly is "gone"
Think about it. He KNEW that wasnt Yda. He also knew he was helping Lyse with the Ala Mihgo stuff. yet we get no details on this or possibly him helping her even more.

Now for everyone who says "Let the people stay dead". If that was the case. Everyone shouldve stayed dead from the end of 1.0. =p

Hell, with everyone else being allowed to "come back" somehow if they were part of the main cast. I just felt Papalymo should be allowed the same chance here.

This thread isnt about what is happening with everyone else in the story or about how people "Manage to stay alive".
Its just a thread I wanted to do as a fan of a Lalafel who started to grow on me finally during the MSQ after awhile.. and felt it ended way too soon so trying to see if more agree to bring him back so the Devs know what the public would like to see in this regards. :)

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Originally Posted by stanrir

well if thats the case we should bring back Yda too and get rid of this Lice that has taken her place!

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Speaking of that... Who do you think may have been sitting on the Throne in that last CS...? ;)

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Originally Posted by Mysticales

This thread isnt about what is happening with everyone else in the story or about how people "Manage to stay alive".
Its just a thread I wanted to do as a fan of a Lalafel who started to grow on me finally during the MSQ after awhile.. and felt it ended way too soon so trying to see if more agree to bring him back so the Devs know what the public would like to see in this regards. :)

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We don't need a 2nd Nanamo.

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Originally Posted by Felis

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I have not finished the 2nd part of the 3.5 story yet, but is Minfilia already back from her travel to the other world?

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Honestly said. When they first announced her as Mother basically... and then kept her around. I kept asking myself.. "What has she REALLY done in the story? Every other character did something with me. Even fight? I havent seen Minfilia fight... yet she leads us...?"


As for her coming back from the world. I keep thinking she went to the world that was lost known as 1.0 and that is what she is working to fix.

Maybe we get a "Wings of the Goddess" type expansion where we return to the doomed world of the past and work to solve hat.

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Originally Posted by Mysticales

And THIS is what I am talking about. In 1.0 he seemed to have more of a role. More story and participation that was oddly lost when we got to 2.0. Now its like he finally has something going and then instantly is "gone"
Think about it. He KNEW that wasnt Yda. He also knew he was helping Lyse with the Ala Mihgo stuff. yet we get no details on this or possibly him helping her even more.

Now for everyone who says "Let the people stay dead". If that was the case. Everyone shouldve stayed dead from the end of 1.0. =p

Hell, with everyone else being allowed to "come back" somehow if they were part of the main cast. I just felt Papalymo should be allowed the same chance here.

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I'm pretty sure there's a fallacy involved in "If Papalymo can't come back, everyone should have died in the Calamity". Think you might be a little attached.

He's already dead. Undoing it now would be a Nanamo situation all over again. It'd make the whole sacrifice he did completely worthless, make what it represents worthless, and throw one hell of a spanner into Lyse's entire motive. And what for? Stockholm Syndrome? Just let him die, geez.

Dude dead let him stay dead please.

I'm all for him coming back! I want my little buddy!

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Originally Posted by Felis

But the only person with a dead scene at the end of 2.5 was the Sultana.
I don't know why people thought they died instead of just went missing.

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Because it was plainly designed to make you think that. For instance, Y'shtola talks about being entombed with Thancred for all eternity. This is clearly a suggestion that they will not make it out alive. Yda and Papalymo are clearly exhausted at the end and say they're being overwhelmed. They keep putting on a brave face, but it's obvious they can't keep going for much longer. Despite this, there's no sign of an end to the enemy reinforcements. Minfilia makes a huge speech about how she's basically staying behind to make sure you can escape. This is clearly sacrificial talk.

A couple of them surviving would have been no big deal. It could have even been a pleasant surprise and another twist. However, everyone surviving (unless you don't want to count Minfilia as Word of the Mother)? It's pretty lame. They built up that entire end, which was really good and a bold move for a video game, just to immediately turn around and undo it. What's worse, it was basically an expectation that everyone had survived from the moment you found Y'shtola.

I don't like NPCs dying, much less the Scions so yeah, bring back Papalymo!...

Lyse (former Yda) will be so happy they will marry and be happy together forever more!... :o

Dead Potato is Dead.... throw him in the dead Lala pile and move on...

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/comp...s-20467082.jpg

I dunno, his revival would really, really cheapen the plot, especially in terms of Lyse's character development. We already saw how much outrage there was when it turned out Nanamo survived, and that was for a side character. Papalymo is a major one in comparison.

The only way I see Papalymo surviving WITHOUT ticking off 75% of the player population is if a Phoenix-type situation happened to him, as in he got tempered by Shinyru and we have to defeat him in the Bend of Time.

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Originally Posted by Mysticales

And THIS is what I am talking about. In 1.0 he seemed to have more of a role. More story and participation that was oddly lost when we got to 2.0. Now its like he finally has something going and then instantly is "gone"

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His role during 1.0 was to be the serious one in the Papalymo/Yda team.
He and Yda showed up in the Gridania part at the start of the stoy, and then vanish after the last Gridania story (lv 15 or lv 18) until the last story quest.

Yea, whats sad is the 2.0 playerbase never got to see Papalymo get manhandled and carried under Ydas arm as they ran away.

That was awesome lol.

But even if I entertain the thought about "Let him stay dead". How about not right now? I mean even Ysayle had more going on before she died. More backstory, lil more overall completion. Papalymo... like you said, vanished after the Grid MSQ stuff, came back in a lil, wasnt till this 3.x area that he is seen some more, then some questions havent been answered, wham "dead"?

Also to all the Tarutaru haters.. Just remember.... Those "Potatoes" can and will kill you in your sleep. =D

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/b...20130921_6.jpg

(Yes I study with them as an Elf... someone has to raise the Lalafel army...)

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Originally Posted by Mysticales

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Both Papalymo and this topic are dead. I don't know why you insist on otherwise.