Slight Monk rework

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Originally Posted by Vorx

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Deliruim does not overwrite DK and never has, while I could bring up evidence of it I think it would be in vane. If you're interested in looking it up yourself do visit fflogs and check for parties with monk and drk in it and look at what happens when delirium is applied if DK is up.
Also you're not even properly discussing the shortcoming of monk but looking at turning it into a class for dummies. You have no facts to prove your reasons either but mostly because you feel like it or adjusting it to the lowest lowest common denominator where class balance doesn't even matter. What monk needs isn't removal of positionals nor addition of ranged attack, their personal DPS is nowhere near the issue, they just have no useful utility.

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Originally Posted by Krindor

Deliruim does not overwrite DK and never has, while I could bring up evidence of it I think it would be in vane. If you're interested in looking it up yourself do visit fflogs and check for parties with monk and drk in it and look at what happens when delirium is applied if DK is up.
Also you're not even properly discussing the shortcoming of monk but looking at turning it into a class for dummies. You have no facts to prove your reasons either but mostly because you feel like it or adjusting it to the lowest lowest common denominator where class balance doesn't even matter. What monk needs isn't removal of positionals nor addition of ranged attack, their personal DPS is nowhere near the issue, they just have no useful utility.

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And you can take your insults else where thank you. I said i won't get into this Dark remove stuff, you people seem to be here to derail stuff more then discuss.

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Originally Posted by Vorx

And you can take your insults else where thank you. I said i won't get into this Dark remove stuff, you people seem to be here to derail stuff more then discuss.

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He hit you with a fact and an intellectual argument.

FACT: Delirium has never overwritten DK. If you are noticing an "overwrite" than it's because your opener and rotation are messed up...which in any case is a major loss of DPS...no bueno.

ARGUMENT: You have no facts to support your suggested changes.

You need to support your suggestions otherwise what you write can't even be considered an opinion. Especially when you are insisting that your views on DK vs Delirium are correct when it has been evident since the release of DRK that DK was never removed by delirium.

You people.. we're meant to throw ideas around here but all of you try to come in here to act like your the world's best elites while offering nothing to it yourselves. From all the post i've seen from most of you all you seem to be here for is to talk down to everyone. Where's your suggestions, here's your "perfect" solution since you all seem to be so great and know it all?

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Originally Posted by Vorx

You people.. we're meant to throw ideas around here but all of you try to come in here to act like your the world's best elites while offering nothing to it yourselves. From all the post i've seen from most of you all you seem to be here for is to talk down to everyone. Where's your suggestions, here's your "perfect" solution since you all seem to be so great and know it all?

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People left their perfect solution in your thread, "raid-wide DPS utility contribution."

It's even on the first page of your thread, both pros and cons...no ones going to attach to a skill like you did with a ranged attack, all people expect is that MNks will get some kind of unique raid DPS contributing move at some point.

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Originally Posted by WeekendSoja

People left their perfect solution in your thread, "raid-wide DPS utility contribution."

It's even on the first page of your thread, both pros and cons...no ones going to attach to a skill like you did with a ranged attack, all people expect is that MNks will get some kind of unique raid DPS contributing move at some point.

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So offer your take on what should be fixed instead of just coming here to talk down to people because YOU THINK you know more.

Not sure if it's already been suggested here someone once brought to mind a neat idea that I think would offer both raid offensive and defensive utility. Reworking mantra to instead spread your current fist buff to nearby targets for mantra's duration. Either 5% damage to all, 10% damage reduction to all, 10% movement increase to all nearby. In order for this to work mantra would have to be taken off the cross system, with Stormblood being the perfect time to experiment doing so.

Don't get why you're catching feelings when you're clearly in the wrong here.

Like Krindor said, MNK's issue is not their positionals (all melee Jobs have at least positional), or not having a ranged attack (no-one cares about Throwing Dagger and whatever DRG has). Furthermore, MNK is the easiest melee to play as it is. They don't need to be dumbed down any further, which is what your suggestions would amount to.

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Originally Posted by Sailysium

Not sure if it's already been suggested here someone once brought to mind a neat idea that I think would offer both raid offensive and defensive utility. Reworking mantra to instead spread your current fist buff to nearby targets for mantra's duration. Either 5% damage to all, 10% damage reduction to all, 10% movement increase to all nearby. In order for this to work mantra would have to be taken off the cross system, with Stormblood being the perfect time to experiment doing so.

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I could see that, be interesting if nothing else. Plus with RDM being added i feel it may get cross skills others don't. Remember an RDM is a jack of all trade so there might be some cross skill unique to just them.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

Don't get why you're catching feelings when you're clearly in the wrong here.

Like Krindor said, MNK's issue is not their positionals (all melee Jobs have at least positional), or not having a ranged attack (no-one cares about Throwing Dagger and whatever DRG has). Furthermore, MNK is the easiest melee to play as it is. They don't need to be dumbed down any further, which is what your suggestions would amount to.

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If anything the removal of the positioning would allow it to keep decent damage output and keep people from kicking them all together.

The positional bonuses are part of why MNKs personal DPS is so high. Remove that and then you'd have to nerf MNKs DPS in order to keep the Job balanced. So then you get a Job that provides no offensive utility, whilst providing potentially lower damage than the ones that do.

So what just accept half damage due to being force to evade an attack? Basically as it stands now you either take an attack but keep damage or give up half your damage to move outta the way. Sorry but that seems like something that needs reworked.

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Originally Posted by Vorx

So what just accept half damage due to being force to evade an attack? Basically as it stands now you either take an attack but keep damage or give up half your damage to move outta the way. Sorry but that seems like something that needs reworked.

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If you're bad at the Job, maybe.

The challenge in playing melee classes is being able to maintain as much uptime as possible whilst dealing with mechanics. Vast majority of fights are scripted so the same 'hurdles' are going to come up at the same points, every time. Your job is to learn how to handle those moments, not ask for the job to be dumbed down. Practice makes perfect.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

If you're bad at the Job, maybe.

The challenge in playing melee classes is being able to maintain as much uptime as possible whilst dealing with mechanics. Vast majority of fights are scripted so the same 'hurdles' are going to come up at the same points, every time. Your job is to learn how to handle those moments, not ask for the job to be dumbed down. Practice makes perfect.

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Thanks elite, problem is the skills not the player. You could be the best Monk ever but if you have to dodge something the bonus fad on their own, you have no choice. And its not like you can't, most of the expansion runs have massive dodging involved, if you just stood there you'd be dead and a burden for the healer. My suggestions would lower your over all DPS yes but you'd be able to keep decent damage output going while giving the Healer less to focus on, and the output wouldn't even be that big of a chance. at best you'd do about the same as a Nin.

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Originally Posted by Vorx

Thanks elite, problem is the skills not the player.

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You're the only one here complaining about MNK positionals, so I'm inclined to think the problem is you and not the Job having positionals.

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You could be the best Monk ever but if you have to dodge something the bonus fad on their own, you have no choice.

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Which isn't unique to MNK.

If you have to dodge something but can still hit the target, you still hit the target. It's that simple. If you can't hit the target at all, then you time it so you disengage during the GCD (where you wouldn't be able to attack anyway), then go back to the boss at the earliest opportunity. If you're struggling to maintain uptime in fights, then the problem is you not the Job.

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Originally Posted by Vorx

So what just accept half damage due to being force to evade an attack? Basically as it stands now you either take an attack but keep damage or give up half your damage to move outta the way. Sorry but that seems like something that needs reworked.

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Job asks for pre-planning and/or risk, making it more exciting --> must be fixed?

Well once again the elites ruin ANOTHER post.. To the people who were in here at the start thank you, we had some decent discussions but of course "these people" had to try and one up everything.
I stand by what i said that Monk needs major reworking but i'm so tired of these self described know it alls, was hoping for a decent discussion but i see this is impossible..

Sounds like you just wanted a thread of people agreeing with your weak ideas and soothing your ego.

You claim MNK needs reworking because of positionals yet had nothing to say about the other melee Jobs that also have positionals. Should they have theirs removed too to be like MNK? Should every melee Job just be the same then? Why should MNK be the only Job that get its 'problem' removed but the other ones have to keep theirs? Is it because it's the only Job you play so you want the easy mode status given to it for your sake?

The reality is, your minor personal problems with MNK is not the same as, nor in line with, the wider problem with the Job (within the raiding meta; outside of that it's fine). You would most likely struggle just as much on DRG and/or NIN because the fundamentals of MNK are also found in those Jobs. MNK just has the easier time of it, in comparison.

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Originally Posted by Vorx

Well once again the elites ruin ANOTHER post.. To the people who were in here at the start thank you, we had some decent discussions but of course "these people" had to try and one up everything.
I stand by what i said that Monk needs major reworking but i'm so tired of these self described know it alls, was hoping for a decent discussion but i see this is impossible..

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The elites are the only ones who balance matters to, on the lowest level it won't matter, the ones that block monk from joining see, "oh all the elites avoid monk therefore it must be bad"(Which is quite funny because unless it's speed running or prog we don't care about comp). It's not like the mid tier and lower thinks for themselves when it comes to this. Also just an fyi I'm one of the people who has done the most theorycrafting on monk and made tools for it to help with testing stuff out.

A decent discussion won't work when the only thing you do is say this lowers half my DPS without any numbers to support this. Here's some grade school math for true strike: 150/190 = 79% or a 21% damage loss from missing a positional. So even if you were missing every single positional you would still only lose out on 21%. It was the same with the ranged attacks. In the whole of the current tier there is ONE case where you would use a ranged attack, that's one time in over 20 minutes of encounter time. A proper discussion requires you to provide enoung facts to support it.

I wouldn't support any of these changed, removing positionals removes the flavor of the job and adding a ranged attack is simply just a waste of dev time. Reason why I'm not trying to come up with any new ideas is because of the new jobs coming in. If we say that the current skill setup stays the same and the only addition is the new classes. If RDM were to have piercing and some other utility, you would then have monk instead of dragoon as their personal DPS would be higher than the DRG dps + battle litany.

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Originally Posted by Krindor

The elites are the only ones who balance matters to, on the lowest level it won't matter

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It is not only the lowest lvl, it is more like 95% or even higher number... For all these people a real good monk will contribute as much raid dps as any other "just ok played" class with raidbuffs.

Most important factor for raid dps is "individual player skill" and not your "group comp". Once you can play the job perfectly adjusted for every fight, you can start thinking about your group comp.

But who is gonna admit that they cant play their classes to the max. ? If you don't have healer and tanks in dps stances almost all time, you wont kill anything much faster anyway.

I think you forget that all classes lose dps when they have to start moving around, also throughout the fight all dps will balance out to some degree. It has nothing to do with the reason as to why Monk is left out. The only reason they are not wanted is that they are a selfish class and offer nothing to the party except raw dps.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

The only reason they are not wanted is that they are a selfish class and offer nothing to the party except raw dps.

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But isn't that what you want? You describe them as selfish but what about people going in meta comp just to push their personal dps by getting boosted by other classes? Wouldn't that be selfish too?
For the majority of partyfinder grps and most of statics, it will make no difference. They cant make use of it anyway. You/Many just damn a class for reasons that are only important for very few %.

Balancing classes could be way worse if you compare it with other games. There will always be a group constellation that will be slightly superior, even with stormblood. You just have to keep the gap between other constellation small, you cant get the impossible of perfect balance unless you make a boring game.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

But isn't that what you want? You describe them as selfish but what about people going in meta comp just to push their personal dps by getting boosted by other classes? Wouldn't that be selfish too?
For the majority of partyfinder grps and most of statics, it will make no difference. They cant make use of it anyway. You/Many just damn a class for reasons that are only important for very few %.

Balancing classes could be way worse if you compare it with other games. There will always be a group constellation that will be slightly superior, even with stormblood. You just have to keep the gap between other constellation small, you cant get the impossible of perfect balance unless you make a boring game.

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Totally disagree if I wanted to have a metta class I would main one of the other dps classes. Yes I would like Monk to bring something extra to the table buffs/debuffs/increase X anything to be honest. You also say it would make it boring but how is it exciting to see every groups in PF asking for the same thing. You also say it only matters to a small %, yet if this was true we wouldn't see multiple parties in PF asking for the same classes.

Related to the issue regarding positionals while dodging mechanics.... Monk really is at a little more of a disadvantage here than the other melee jobs because while ninja and dragoon have positionals, you can always on those jobs do things that don't require the positional while dodging the mechanic. For example, in A11s as a ninja, I take the opportunity while dodging the left/right sword to refresh DOTs. It's rarely an issue for monk, the only thing I can think off right offhand is scrapline. In PvP there's a skill that temporarily removes all positional requirements. Maybe that could be added to monk for PvE so you can keep up your damage output during longer mechanics.

However, that won't really fix the problem that monk needs good raid utility. There are two ways to fix this: give them a skill that buffs the party beyond just mantra, or add more jobs that deal blunt damage to make Dragon Kick more viable.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

You also say it only matters to a small %, yet if this was true we wouldn't see multiple parties in PF asking for the same classes.

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The ones excluding any non-meta class and aren't trying to accomplish something special are simply meta sheep. It won't have a significant effect if they are meta or not, they're still not getting anywhere close to where the people who can utilise meta gets. One example of where the meta is important is a A10S skip that was a boon and couldn't be accomplished without meta comp before echo, that is, skipping the blighted mechanic in p1. Some other noteworthy is increased difficulty in killing A11S pre limit cut. But post echo except for groups that are trying to push times, a simple farm group or clear group running a meta comp or not wouldn't matter. The only thing might be the want for ninja but monk/drg are interchangeable.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

You also say it only matters to a small %, yet if this was true we wouldn't see multiple parties in PF asking for the same classes.

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But that is the community who got it wrong and not the dev's. People just think it matters, it actually doesn't for them. xD Only because many do it, doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.
If you give monk synergy with other classes, we will have a different class asking for buff(what will probably happen anyway).


Monk is a fist-fighter, in my opinion shouldn't get range skills(lore doesn't fit), we got a lot to do during downtimes, formshifting&meditating usually that takes up most gcd. If they remove slash/piercing/blunt resistences and just unify it, or create a different system for it, maybe vulnerability stacks or something, it would matter less what class you play aslong as you have a resistence down/vulnerability up buff it adds up for dmg for everyone. They wanna simplify it for addon, this could be a way, though again, taking away the individuality from classes doesn't make them more appealing, you are going to lose your "fun" when everybody can do the same. There is a urge for specialization in rpg.

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Monk is a fist-fighter, in my opinion shouldn't get range skills(lore doesn't fit)

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The lore does fit as Chakra could be based off meditation similar to how it worked with boost in XI. Although I am not 100% sure if it is needed or not, as it is only very rare times you would use it i.e a monk/pug party in Palace.

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However, that won't really fix the problem that monk needs good raid utility. There are two ways to fix this: give them a skill that buffs the party beyond just mantra, or add more jobs that deal blunt damage to make Dragon Kick more viable.

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Funny thing is they don't even need to go that far. All they would need to do would be add slashing and/or piercing damage onto certain weapons. It is stupid that claws are classed as blunt weapons.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Funny thing is they don't even need to go that far. All they would need to do would be add slashing and/or piercing damage onto certain weapons. It is stupid that claws are classed as blunt weapons.

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I feel like that wouldn't really work. Let's say I'm using those monk weapons that look like you're holding two rapiers and they do piercing damage. Well, now you do dragon kick, but that doesn't put a piercing damage debuff on the enemy, so that fancy new weapon actually does less damage than your old blunt weapon unless you bring a dragoon along with you. I think it adds too much chaos into the raiding groups. Say the Sophia weapon was blunt damage so you're good with your raiding group, but then the Zurvan weapon was slashing damage, so then you have to have a NIN or WAR in your raid group or you lose DPS.

Honestly Monk doesn't need a ranged attack to fix it, it needs a few quality of life things that every other class has so it isn't such a drain on the party and to have Blunt damage to be folded into piercing or for physical resistance to all be folded into one damage type. The biggest inherent design issue Monk currently has is the lack of an aggro cut and the highest personal DPS, making it harder for tanks to go into DPS stance with a monk in the party. The second one is TP issues, yes Monk does have Purification, but by being tied to Meditation it reduces a Monk's ability to mitigate the damage loss from a boss jump or it forces monk to disengage from a Boss to keep hitting it. It would be like if a Warrior couldn't use Fell Cleave for a full minute every time they used Equilibrium.

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Originally Posted by Vorx

So what just accept half damage due to being force to evade an attack? Basically as it stands now you either take an attack but keep damage or give up half your damage to move outta the way. Sorry but that seems like something that needs reworked.

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Play by Black Mage rules: stand in the AOE, if it didn't kill you, dodging it was optional. I'm not even kidding when I say this. If you communicate well to your healer and utilize your own abilities well, you can mitigate a decent amount of the damage (switch to Fists of Earth before the attack lands, pop Foresight if it's physical) and then you can take care of a decent amount of the damage afterwards with Second Wind and Bloodbath. If that's what you have to do in order to not lose Greased Lightning, it's worth it, and if you've told your healer you'll be taking care of yourself afterwards, especially in a raid environment, then standing in mechanics can, sometimes, be okay.

How about when you build up chakra you can take away TP gain and add " blunt damage to all in range", call it "blunt trauma". Between trauma and chi blast, gives mnk more utility and Dragon kick can be used to give more damage to the raid group not just mnk
You can even make it to as your building up chakra it can hold up your grease lightning stacks making it easier when you're running around.
I don't know not a monk expert I just play it cuz I enjoy it

Really hope SE add some utility for us in SB. Honestly it's kinda sad some "hc" statics/pf parties requiring only NIN/DRG.

Before people ask, this is coming from someone playing MNK, but also other jobs, with speedkill experience.

I've been playing with Krindor this past tier. As he said we are the group that pulled the highest scores with a MNK within the group (hi, me) for a while. Our scores were all the time within the tops (let's say top 10ish, for the record #2 A11S).

MNK is the top DPS in term of raw personal output. I saw "True Strike is the only skill doing damage, rest is just buffs/debuffs with annoying positionals" : MNK has "low" potencies yeah, but actually has the biggest multiplier among all jobs : Fists of Fire + Dragon Kick + Twin Snakes + GL3
Do the maths, then compare with other melee jobs. Not gonna mention enhanced IR, nor Bootshine's 100% critrate.

So you'll ask me "Why everyone don't run MNK then ?"
Because making a MNK worth in speedkilling is hard :
1) Fight mapping : to push mechanics, burst is more worthy than a ramping-up-DPS-truck.
2) Raid utility : falls off under the push category. MNK DOESNT PROVIDE A SINGLE RAIDDPS BUFF. All others "meta" DPS do
3) Aggro : tied to raid utility, if you "optimize" at least a bit, you WANT Disembowel so you'll run DRG/MNK. No NIN means no Shadewalker/Smoke Screen. MNK is the only DPS job with no aggro reducing/redirection (Quelling, Shadewalker, ElusiveJump...) resulting in additional pressure on tanks' and an eventual DPS loss on their end. Or on a dead MNK.

I think these 3 points sum pretty well all the reasons you GENERALLY wouldn't want a MNK in a speedkill group.

Oh yeah, you usually also don't want to take one, because the average MNK is bad : don't take it personally or anything, it's a statement. MNK are often underperforming, see people saying here we are on a bad spot compared to other melees.

The reason speedkilling with me as MNK worked for us is simple : if you bring in a MNK, he will usually come instead of your BRD (or caster LOOOOL nice meme™). Given that, you have a simple checklist of points you have to actually validate :
1) Outperform a BRD personal score : this is maybe not sounding hard in itself, but well, some monks already lose their spot at that point :) Don't forget BRD get use from EVERY single buff a meta raidgroup brings in (hi Hypercharge), making them super big.
2) Outperform the fact BRD brings in Foe, so pushes up A LOT your healers' DPS (which is a really important part of your raid DPS, yes, yes)
3) Make the triple melee composition not a burden for your group efficiency, which is the hardest part when it comes to encounters like A11S, but can be really easy on others. People might have to disengage, or you might have to play around placement, but if you make your group cry or die because of it, no MNK is not worth.
4 5 6 7 8 9...) You are a goddamn MNK. If you aren't top among the melees DPS, change of job. You ARE the strongest DPS.

To end on that specific case : I played all jobs we could use on my spot within this speedkill group, DRG/MNK/BRD/MCH. Before we stopped I was running on BRD/MCH, because even with less experience on it, as soon as I had the gear and the CD rotations for each fights more or less down, the raid utility + the fact BRD and MCH are absurdly good at their personal DPS made our runs equivalent and/or faster than with me on MNK.




H O W E V E R.

All this massive wall of text, whether you read it or not, only applies to speedkill. There is NO reason to not pick a MNK within a casual/regular group.
MNK is the highest DPS.
MNK is the easiest DPS to progress on.
MNK has the easiest time (with/followed by NIN) to adjust and play around mechanics to not lose DPS.
MNK shines even (more) on AoE situations.

If people didn't s*ck on the "Delete MNK" meme among raiders/speedrunners (for the reason i linked in the wall of text), you wouldn't see MNK so hated nowadays, with 95% of the said haters not even able to say why they don't want one.
This, and also if MNKs could learn to actually pull their weight, because we see WAY TOO OFTEN MNKs outperformed by other melees, which should N E V E R happen.

Positionals aren't that hard, that's what makes the job fun, that's the one of the part in mix-maxing MNK DPS, but that's not a reason to end being awful.








TL;DR: MNK isn't "bad", far from it. Speedkilling requires to pull your weight, is doable, but is not optimal.
Regular raiding/content shows no reason to reject MNKs. It's all the contrary, a good one would probably help you more than sticking to a said "meta" composition.

TL;DR²: Really, stop s*cking on the "Delete MNK" meme if you don't understand it.

I think I agree with the slight monk rework here. It's already super difficult to hit from the flank AND from the back. And then you have so much downtime running while range DPS can just do dmg it is really unfair.
We have the fist of fire but WHERE is the fire tho? I think you should have something like Fire IV but you can only use it if you have Greased Lightning II because its super difficult to have Greased Lightning III all the time.
That would make Monk so much more enjoyable and people would start playing it more because you can finally do damage now but not per second.

her's a slight rework suggestion..

How do you guys think a lower perfect balance recast would impact monks...

I don't play the class that seriously myself but I feel lowering the recast on perfect balance would allow tornado kick to be a bit more functional. as you could use pb to quickly get back upto gl3 after hitting a tornado kick..

which is something I tend to do in some fights especially those with very high uptime.. but a 3minute recast I think is a bit much...

but I shall defer to those who play monk more avidly than myself for an opinion on this

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Originally Posted by Dzian

here's a slight rework suggestion..

How do you guys think a lower perfect balance recast would impact monks...

I don't play the class that seriously myself but I feel lowering the recast on perfect balance would allow tornado kick to be a bit more functional. as you could use pb to quickly get back upto gl3 after hitting a tornado kick..

which is something I tend to do in some fights especially those with very high uptime.. but a 3minute recast I think is a bit much...

but I shall defer to those who play monk more avidly than myself for an opinion on this

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I think the damage on Tornado Kick itself would have to be increased for that to be effective. Even if Perfect Balance were reduced to a 90-second CD, it would still be worth more potency to de-sync DK and Twin by one GCD and spend 4 out of 5 hits on Bootshine and the last on Dragon Kick, especially whenever BFB would be up and Inner Release on cooldown. With Inner Release is up, True Strike might become optimal instead(?), but only slightly, now that critical strike chance also acts as crit determination; or, at least, that's 15% more potential damage you'd otherwise waste. (The 26.7% potency increase will not otherwise make up for the loss of auto-crit, especially seeing as the auto-crit's damage is increased by almost the same percentage as the other's crit chance, iirc.)

I'll have to see at exactly what potency this would be the case, but I'd like for Tornado Kick to be viable at the tail of end of CDs and buffs, with both DoTs placed recently enough to last until you return to GL3. It doesn't even have to be a whole 1% dps increase from doing so; it just needs to at least make up for the damage that would otherwise be lost in being faintly more TP efficient when used perfectly.

Just to throw out, for random thought-juice, some other ways Perfect Balance could go, mostly for quality of life changes(?):
:: It could be trimmed into a passive on Fists of Wind, etc., in which you can skip stances at significant mana cost, or on Fists of Fire in which you can duplicate an attack onto other enemies nearby.
:: Perfect Balance could simply make Form Shift, which would be given earlier, a no-animation (or incredibly short animation) oGCD. You can now use 3 keys total for all your weaponskills, which are cycled between stances.
:: Perfect Balance could charge up to 5 hits' worth of "Free Stance" over time, rather than using a cooldown. However, these stacks build faster as the count increases, meaning that it'd be wasteful to pop early (emergency pop for GL, for instance).
:: Perfect Balance provides only 8 seconds of duration, but then grants one hit of "Free Stance" to be used within 10 seconds, slightly reducing irritants of idiot tanks or otherwise loose targets during a final, crucial hit, and allowing for easier timely addition of ToD.

Would it be OP if monk had an ability to AOE your current fist stance to the rest of the party? Obviously with some sort of duration and cooldown.

@Shurrikhan

I thought it might actually increase damage a bit. hiting the high potency tornado quick and then following up with 3 snaps it seemed the loss of gl3 would be for a very minimal time frame.. but it is likely I am wrong that's why I deferred to more experienced monks for an opinion..
but seems youd like to see tornado kick be a bit more useful as well so least I'm not alone in that..

Using mana to skip stances sounds like it could be interesting. expecially with mana being entirely useless on monk in it's present form.

the stuff below that i'll admit confues the hell out of me. posiibly understand it better if I played monk more I guess.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Would it be OP if monk had an ability to AOE your current fist stance to the rest of the party? Obviously with some sort of duration and cooldown.

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Mantra seems a fine candidate. Up the base a bit, and then add that on to the Monk trait. +10% mitigation, 30% movement speed, or 5% damage.

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Originally Posted by Yorukuni

It's already super difficult to hit from the flank AND from the back.

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it's pretty easy to hit from both flank and back.

• Flank does not mean standing 90/270 degrees to the side of the target. Anywhere from 46 degrees to 134 degrees/226 to 314 degrees is Flank.
• Back does not just mean standing 180 degrees behind a target. Anywhere from 136 degrees to 224 degrees is Back.

So all you do is stand at almost exactly 135 degrees. You move clockwise slightly to execute rear positionals, and anticlockwise slightly to execute flank positionals. On average it should take no more than 0.2s to change your positional regardless of a target's size, which leaves you 1.8 seconds to weave your oGCDs. If your position is denied by a persistent AoE mechanic, switch to the 225 degree position instead. If both positions are denied by persistent AoE and the mob is still held in such a disadvantageous orientation, your tank is incompetent; consider MIPing your other DPS or healer instead.

Ranged lack is a problem, but a small one. Easily fixed also by giving monk a wide cone AoE with a high TP cost, very little damage (and no target requirement), but which refreshes Greased Lightning's duration. People can then use that to maintain GL3 between fights by aiming it in a non-mob direction, maintain GL3 within invuln mechanics/enforced range fights but still do little to no additional range dps that would throw off the balance.