New Player Got Kicked During Lost City of Mhach BY A MENTOR

Did the mentor explain? Was it acknowledged that they were new? Was there warnings on what was being done wrong and how to correct it? How many wipes did it take?

If he was warned what he was doing wrong, and continued to do it, then they are beyond a Mentors help and are just holding back the alliance in such a fight. You need more details about what actually happened, all you did in your OP was sketch around it to purposely villainize the Mentor.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I was just playing Lost City of Mhach, and watched as my friend got kicked out of a raid for not understanding how Ozma works. The person that kicked them out was a mentor of all people. I tried to explain to them how wrong this was, and yet all they did was stand there silently. They knew what they did, and they seemed to not care. This kind of behavior needs to stop. Do people not want an active player base? How are we going to do that if people treat each other this way? It makes no sense.

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This isnt just mentors this is the player base of this game in general period stop blaming stuff on mentors only

"Lost City of Mhach" It's Weeping City of Mhach.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Mentors, like forum moderators are best left out of conflict amongst other players. This is not their role to participate in, or instigate by any means. I am not saying they can't vote. I am saying they can't initiate it.

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I guess we just disagree on this part :x

I believe Mentors should defend the group against harassment and part of that would be to vote kick. Depending on the level of the offense then kindly asking first for the offending player to cease their attacks on the party (or specific member in the party) is fine, but if they continue then any person in the group mentor or not should be able to initiate vote kick. Should be zero tolerance of that sort of behavior.

Especially if the group has other new players in it. They might be unaware of the vote kick system and some people might just up and leave to get away from the offending player thinking there was no way out of the situation besides that (I've seen this happen; a veteran player started harassing a sprout for some mistakes they made and the sprout didn't even say anything back, they just left the group) and this leaves me feeling so bad for the new player and angry at the harasser. So I still believe Mentors should remove those kinds of players.

I hate using the vote kick system and I rarely ever do, but I have used it in Mentor Roulette due to either new players harassing/insulting the party, or a veteran player harassing the new players who are trying to learn.

One time a veteran player even tried to vote kick out a sprout because they had trouble healing Aiatar (Brayflox) because it was their first time healing it and we wiped. I ofc said no and so did the rest I guess because the vote didn't pass. The rudeness came out after the vote kick didn't pass and they started attacking this poor new healer. I kicked him immediately. We got a replacement and we beat Aiatar second try. The healer thanked me for defending her and giving her a chance to learn to heal the fight properly.

I think it would be good to teach new players they don't have to accept verbal harassment and that the vote kick system is there to remove players who try to abuse others in chat.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

But some are saints. From the time I've spent here, I would consider you one of them, among several others.

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Well no human is perfect. We all have our issues and our bad times. Some players are really nice and almost always nice, but my main point was not that there are no saint-like players but the fact that definitely not every one is so nice so having tools to prevent harassment is kind of needed for any player mentor or not.

I am glad you appreciate me and I always like seeing your posts...you have this sweet kindness that I enjoy reading. I am not a saint though :x I try my best to always be kind and considerate, but I have my bad moments of frustration just like most others.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I've never known you to have a defeatist kind of mentality towards the community in general like you speak here. It is the reality. I know it is. But those who push positive influence in the community like you so often have, need to continue to push.

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Yeah that was my point. That it is the reality of it so denying it or hiding it is not going to get us anywhere. The internet is the internet and there will always be some people on it that are just out to harass others and make others have a bad day. It is unfortunate...and while I still push for positive community those kinds of people will still be there. All you can do is remove them from the party so that the players being harassed can continue to play in a fun environment instead of being verbally harassed.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

This has rarely happened for me, but the fact that it does happen indeed does warrant a step back to look at the repercussions.

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Well there are more situations that would cause problems. I've even seen 4 mentor dungeon parties when doing mentor roulette (rare but still...the fact it could happen which could end up wasting people's play time sorta seems bad) which means there would be no one able to remove any other player for afk/offline/harassment. That wouldn't work in my opinion :/

The situation which I described already too where 3 mentors and a regular player. If the regular player ends up afk, offline, or harassing someone then none of the mentors can remove them. Or if one of the mentor players ends up afk, offline or harassing someone only the regular player would be able to kick and his vote kick could possibly be on cool down if they had to use it within the last 3-4 hours in another duty.

Other situation that I've seen very often and most common is 2 mentors and 2 regular players. If Regular Player A ends up offline, afk, or harassing someone then the only player available that could kick would be Regular Player B (and vice versa). If Regular Player A or B just got out of another duty where they had to vote kick an afk/offline member then their vote kick will be on a 4 hour cool down and be unable to kick too. So then again you are stuck with a AFK/Offline/Harassing player that no one can remove.

I know player's vote kick is usually not on cooldown, but when you end up having to rely on only one player to be able to kick the chances of not being able to kick goes up since while you are very unlikely to have 3-4 players all with their vote kick on cooldown...sometimes you may have 1-2 players that have used it recently. It might end up falling on those 1-2 players that happened to have used it and no one else has the power to initiate it because they happen to all have mentor status on.

In general my lack of agreement on removing Mentor vote kick ability is mostly just the technical aspect of it. The fact it could cause players to waste time is what makes me disagree the most. The only other aspect is just my opinion that I think Mentors should defend the group against harassment and vote kick is a tool to use to do that and totally justified even if you are a mentor or not.

I would have initiated a VK for not knowing mechanics on an instance that can have catastrophic consequences for literally the ONLY mechanic a dps has to pay attention to.

And I would have initiated a VK on you as well for crying about it.

It's not the mentors' fault. It's the special snowflakes that want to be carried, or are just too lazy to look up a vid.

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Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

I would have initiated a VK for not knowing mechanics on an instance that can have catastrophic consequences for literally the ONLY mechanic a dps has to pay attention to.

And I would have initiated a VK on you as well for crying about it.

It's not the mentors' fault. It's the special snowflakes that want to be carried, or are just too lazy to look up a vid.

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Watching a video should not be the standard. Also, at this point, one person should not cause an entire alliance to die.
It there's a mentor in a party, it is their responsibility to explain mechanics when asked. They let you know this when you sign up to be one.
So yeah, if you want a smooth run, get a full party. New players have the right to enjoy the game as well.

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

Watching a video should not be the standard. Also, at this point, one person should not cause an entire alliance to die.
It there's a mentor in a party, it is their responsibility to explain mechanics when asked. They let you know this when you sign up to be one.
So yeah, if you want a smooth run, get a full party. New players have the right to enjoy the game as well.

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At no point did the OP say anything about his friend asking for help with mechs. And since the OP was coaching them then it's really their fault they were kicked since OP wasn't explaining it well.

As a mentor, I'm not going to hold up 22 other players to explain something. I'm sure there was more than one wipe caused by the player, but again, the OP hasn't said anything to that point. Just blamed a mentor for a VK they have no idea who initiated.

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Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

As a mentor, I'm not going to hold up 22 other players to explain something.

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Then sorry, but you really shouldn't be one in the first place.
Explaining mechs doesn't really take up that much time.

Again, if you want a smooth run, get a full party. Or leave and eat a penalty.

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

Then sorry, but you really shouldn't be one in the first place.
Explaining mechs doesn't really take up that much time.

Again, if you want a smooth run, get a full party. Or leave and eat a penalty.

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Why are you so focused on "get a full party"? You can have anyone in any alliance mess up stuff, full party or no.

And to that point let's blame the other 22 people in the raid that didn't pipe up to help the one player.

Unfortunately, too many people treat mentor status like an achievement and are only after the reward it provides. They usually have little interest in actually helping other players.

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Originally Posted by Watachy

I like how the word "elitist" is used here. "OMG a silent mentor, u elitist idiot you're a shame omg omg mentor is baaaad booouh"

You're ridiculous, besides mentors and newcomers there is human beings, if mentors don't wanna use the novice chat that's all up to them.
You have no obligations, that's the way this system has been designed.

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When signing up to become a mentor you agree to be actively participating as a mentor and helping new players and now returning players.That means if you have a first timer in a dungeon or a new player asks a question directly to you or in the novice chat, you answer questions to the best of your knowledge often times other mentors are quicker in the novice chat giving an answer than others but at least partake a little in the chat rather than everyone looking at your name in the mentor list and wondering if you have your chat turned off. It was all stated during your application process what is expected of mentors to be doing especially if you have your crown showing by your name all the time.

Now I'm not saying all mentors that are quiet in the NN are elitist or full of them self, and not all mentors in the NN have turned the chat filter off so it doesn't show but I'll guarantee the ones that became mentors more so selfish reasons have likely have done this so they don't have to see it probably not all of them but a very large majority have.

Now on those defending ppl kicking newer players from newer content sometimes it simply happens with no warning at all from your party off it, for example back when the city of Mhach was first released when I found the time to have first done it myself I got kicked from it while trying to learn the mechanics of it. Not a single person had said anything to me about anything during that run, next thing I knew I had been booted I got booted a few times while trying to learn the mechanics of that raid and no one explaining anything to help knowing I was new to it and trying to learn the mechanics. I can understand kicking someone that has been told numerous times what the mechanics are and how to avoid extra dmg but there are alot of players that simply kick others out without saying anything or trying to help for their own selfish gain.

Edit:

I actually just double checked what the dialogue said when you sign up as a mentor, becoming a mentor YOU have CHOOSEN to volunteer your time and knowledge with new and returning players. You're supposed to turn your mentor status off if you're focusing on your own things in game having it set as on you're expected to do the role you had signed up to be doing.

Doing frequent raids, I've come across 2 kinds of people:
-Those not reading the fights
-Those reading the fights

One of them is an asset, the other one is a liability. If the guy got kicked, the whole party most likely voted him out.

people act like mentor status is something special. honestly it's a joke.
it shouldn't be a joke but it really is. it's far too easy to get it.
and let's face it people who behave badly don't change when given a crown, They often get worse.
Many mentors get a bigger ego because of this status rather than actually being a mentor they think they should be treated like royalty.
here is an example of one Mentor in Weeping City: I had an AST with mentor status try to say s/he knew what they were doing when they were in party with a SCH they refused to swap to Diurnal Sect and demanded the SCH stop using their shields, even though the SCH was a much higher ilvl.

my point being, your friend got kicked by an impatient player you implying that mentor status changes the level of patience might work if achieving mentor status taught patience, it does not.

This will not change because this game like all others that cater to the casual crowd promotes impatience and laziness on some levels.

please note I am not saying ALL Mentors. I know quite a few really good players who are happy to teach anyone and have mentor status. all of them agree with me that mentor status is far too easy to get though.

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Originally Posted by AmalonStar

You're supposed to turn your mentor status off if you're focusing on your own things in game having it set as on you're expected to do the role you had signed up to be doing.

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it automatically turns it back on if you end up in an instance with a leaf. not sure if there is a way to stop this or not.

Bottom line is people will get kicked mentor no mentor. Those people will complain on the forums mentor no mentor. Business as usual, except for the recent sale...

OP and mentor threads,

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6ozs...RfAQ/giphy.gif

I hope the mentors who get abused by new players start posting about it soon too.

TBF, I'd do the same.

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

Then sorry, but you really shouldn't be one in the first place.
Explaining mechs doesn't really take up that much time.

Again, if you want a smooth run, get a full party. Or leave and eat a penalty.

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Eh, if people just click yes to the ready check and don't speak up, they have it coming.

I've seen bad on both sides to be honest,when I was new I had a mentor that was overly rude to me. As soon as we loaded in the dungeon,he gave me a hard time, after I ignored him for a while he started picking on my gf who also ignored him he was rude the whole time though. I was in another dungeon run and I was leveling my dragoon.... (insert your dragoon jokes here... you good? Alright) anyway we had a tank who would not use flash the mentor suggested he use flash only to get this response "you're not my dad" "and "You don't pay my sub." He never used flash the entire run. My point in bringing these dungeon runs up is because it's not just mentors being rude,there's rudeness on both sides.

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Originally Posted by Adire

I hope the mentors who get abused by new players start posting about it soon too.

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I could share a lot of tales about what I've personally seen in DF where mentors were harassed for no reason...would take me 2-3 days to type it all though; not a good use of my time :x

Seen bad apples on both sides. In the end people are going to act like they want to act. A status icon next to your player name doesn't somehow change the personality of the person behind the computer screen and if it somehow does affect a player's personality in a negative way that person obviously wasn't really nice to begin with and likely they would have acted the same way if put in the same situation even without the crown.

Some people keep saying people have a bad attitude as a mentor because the crown inflates their ego or they use it as a status symbol...that's a bit of a stretch. If a simple crown icon can turn an otherwise nice player suddenly into an egotistical rude player who can be very uncooperative and insulting towards others....do you really think it was a tiny picture of a crown next to their character name that did that? I am quite sure it is likely that player just had that personality to begin with :/

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

Did the mentor explain? Was it acknowledged that they were new? Was there warnings on what was being done wrong and how to correct it? How many wipes did it take?

If he was warned what he was doing wrong, and continued to do it, then they are beyond a Mentors help and are just holding back the alliance in such a fight. You need more details about what actually happened, all you did in your OP was sketch around it to purposely villainize the Mentor.

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The mentor barely did anything.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

The mentor barely did anything.

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And you're still not fully explaining the situation that supposedly happened.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

The mentor barely did anything.

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'Barely', So he did do something?

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

What is going on with the forums lately. It feels like people are constantly whining, or posting things they have no idea about. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad, but come on.

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Oh wait, it's you. Troll thread then.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

it automatically turns it back on if you end up in an instance with a leaf. not sure if there is a way to stop this or not.

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The mentor status only turns back on automatically when a mentor does the mentor roulette, other than that when you turn it off it stays off but you're still able to talk in the novice network chat. Personally I think all rewards for the mentor status should be removed and placed some where else, a person that truly wants to help their fellow players do it not for what rewards they can get they do it because they want to. Those are the true mentors.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Soon, people will see that crown and automatically assume he/she is an elitist douche. That's where it's headed.

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And this is why I said "NO" after one of my friends suggested that I should become a mentor. Ain't nobody got the time for that!

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Soon, people will see that crown and automatically assume he/she is an elitist douche. That's where it's headed.

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That's sad because most of us really are out there trying to do good work. You don't hear about us because we're doing what we're supposed to do so nobody thinks to remark on it.

I'm sorry that people are having negative experiences with members of the mentor program but I think the number of actual cases is exaggerated by the forum echo chamber effect. Most of us are just trying to help.

#notallmentors

/thread

But seriously, that was a dumb thing to do. If it were anyone else besides my friend that I was coaching, I'd say we could make it through Ozma with one less person. I don't vote kick unless they're AFK, offline, or purposefully wiping the group. It goes both ways. I honestly don't see the need in getting rid of the mentor system, just make it easier to report mentors but do it in a way that there has to be a thorough investigation into who was at fault. I've been berated for talking about mechs in Titan EX and even copied off the wiki for the gaol part, but someone disagreed with me at every turn and no one got anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Sil3ntxR3qui3m

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This x1000. One time I was giving advice to my cohealer (whm) in Odin. They kept bleeding through their mp due to poor no management, and were telling the bard to constantly play ballad and complained about low dps after we wiped. I suggested to not use cure III on a single person, because it was an aoe and it was a waste of mp. Told them not to spam medica II as well, and they got mad at me and said "mind your own business. I'm black listing you", even though I was just trying to help. We ended up having to abandon. A reminder to not give job advice, even when it's holding the team back.

I never initiate a vote kick. I believe in giving people chances, even if they're berating me.

7 pages later and OP hasn't even tried to clarify any post asking for clarification


*Sees OP's name*


:thinking:

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Originally Posted by Gemina

And this is a big reason why I don't raid unless with 3 or more members from my FC.

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If you do an 8-man with a premade of 4 people you could still be kicked. It's not a majority needed, it's only 50%, including the one who started the kick. (Same goes for 4-man, only the kicker +1 needed)

These thread/post....

┬─┬ノ(ಠ_ಠノ) = (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

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Originally Posted by alimdia

7 pages later and OP hasn't even tried to clarify any post asking for clarification


*Sees OP's name*


:thinking:

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Yeah, OP definitely made this whole thing up to get another thread of this going, seems he likes making troll/stupid threads.

The OP has another one of these threads going. Just because someone is wearing the crown doesn't mean they are actively mentoring. If you enter the dungeon in a party with the mentor then I think you can have a valid expectation for help. If it is luck of the draw via DF the mentor has every right to be just another player. But yeah it's starting to look like the OP is trolling.

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Originally Posted by Claviusnex

The OP has another one of these threads going. Just because someone is wearing the crown doesn't mean they are actively mentoring. If you enter the dungeon in a party with the mentor then I think you can have a valid expectation for help. If it is luck of the draw via DF the mentor has every right to be just another player. But yeah it's starting to look like the OP is trolling.

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It's honestly starting to look like a mentor killed the OP's father with the amount of hate he seems to have for them over all these threads.

So I am sitting around the house yesterday and thought I would que up for my level 60 expert roulette. The queue popped and I immediately noticed as soon as I got in there a loud obnoxious and very rude mentor. See this is a unique situation because because not only did I get kick out of the raid for telling them to let me live my life how I wanted. I got kicked out of my house too. My mother called me a noob and said you just had to move the laundry to the left and the dog food to the back. Well I mean I am the type of person that can't just visual this easy mechanic, I needed to practice 100 times or more. Well needless to say my mom unplugged the router and kicked me out! This needs to stop!

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Originally Posted by Malakii

So I am sitting around the house yesterday and thought I would que up for my level 60 expert roulette. The queue popped and I immediately noticed as soon as I got in there a loud obnoxious and very rude mentor. See this is a unique situation because because not only did I get kick out of the raid for telling them to let me live my life how I wanted. I got kicked out of my house too. My mother called me a noob and said you just had to move the laundry to the left and the dog food to the back. Well I mean I am the type of person that can't just visual this easy mechanic, I needed to practice 100 times or more. Well needless to say my mom unplugged the router and kicked me out! This needs to stop!

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Mother systems need to be removed from life! This is why!

Maybe newbies should band up and vote kick mentors right off the bat if this keeps going on (mentors can't be jerks if they're removed). Then it will sort of force SE to address the issue.

To be honest I don't think this would even hurt many legit mentors. In my experience the ones actively mentoring use party finder and don't usually go with randoms from DF.

Yeah, whatever is, let's get to the real point here:
I am working on becoming a mentor, just need to get the 1k dungeons done: I wanted to became a mentor for the DR:mentor since I figured 1 more roulette, more exp for me to level my other classes. So I guess my point is:
I GET A FRIGGIN' MOUNT? HOW? EXPLAIN!

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Originally Posted by ZioSerpe

Yeah, whatever is, let's get to the real point here:
I am working on becoming a mentor, just need to get the 1k dungeons done: I wanted to became a mentor for the DR:mentor since I figured 1 more roulette, more exp for me to level my other classes. So I guess my point is:
I GET A FRIGGIN' MOUNT? HOW? EXPLAIN!

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2000 mentor roulettes, my son.

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

Ozma is a fight that you can wipe the entire raid if you don't know what your doing why couldn't you spend a few seconds and at least explain meteors the rest of the fight its not really a big deal as you always have 1-2 people who die to stuff anyways and you can clear no problem

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Yep, I remember my friend kicking a new tank because he did not say so till wiping on ozma and had several opportunities to help. The breaking point was from his HP, losing LB3 then being toxic to my friend who was questioning them on why they Hped and other things, vote passed easily.