Is something ever gonna be done about that?

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Originally Posted by sauceykitten

And what if they have healed the same way every single game and still suck at healing, how do you prove intent?

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You can't, if they heal the same every match. If they didn't say anything and heal consistently the same then the people who posted the names are in the wrong. Probably the reason SE objects to naming.

Part of the problem is SE do4esn't have a real community interaction. A dev/mod should post inquiries and say why X happened or didn't happen. They don't have to use names they have paint as well. Instead we just get general anger and hate because nothing is resolved in the players base eyes, which I agree. I don't care about the sanctity of Feast, but I am also not a fan of SE supposed community team/interaction.

I'm worried the inaction on SE's part is just either an inability to 1) collect data or 2) determine how badly this is breaking the limits of cast speed in feast. Or just an unwillingness to set a precedent, despite the statements from Yoshi P.

Allowing cases like this to linger as long as it is just encourages more cheaters that they won't be punished - it empowers other exploiters with a feeling of security (false or not). Can SE not just set a proper example of this blatant cheating and act on it?

Actually you can still post if you aren't subscribed, you just don't log out of the forums.

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Originally Posted by BHGlobbd

Actually you can still post if you aren't subscribed, you just don't log out of the forums.

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I've unsubscribed multiple times and hell, I've even been subscribed but hadn't logged into FFXIV for over 14 days. Basically, any time I've been inactive from FFXIV for 14 or so days, I have been unable to post on the forums (and yes, this is even when always being logged in. It kicks you out and will refuse to log you in until you touch FFXIV again. Doesn't matter which character you log in as).

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

Both are used by players of XIV, to execute a means which said user deems acceptable, and Square-Enix really doesnt do anything about.

So, i'm pretty sure as long as you can justify using a parser, these people can justify using what they are.

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Except Yoshi-P is perfectly fine with people using Parsers, just so long as you don't post your numbers and/or harass people with them (because you will get thrown into Gaol and maybe even banned).

OP has shown us a player outright cheating in a PvP setting, which is actually giving them an unfair advantage over others. This is way worse than the evil Parsers.

Not sure how any of you are defending these actions can still consider yourself well informed.

You cannot cast that fast with leylines alone at i150 sync, and the player in question has been publicly outed in the past for doing the exact same thing. It's really not hard to understand if you have the facts in front of you.

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

It's really not hard to understand if you have the facts in front of you.

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https://puu.sh/ubuKq.png

Wait, people are taking PvP seriously? :O

Jokes aside though, that 'investigation' appears to be quite sloppy.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Basically, any time I've been inactive from FFXIV for 14 or so days, I have been unable to post on the forums .

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Yes, so if you or anyone else is still trying to imply, I am unable to post, even though I said I got 14 free days recently, which means I was able to log into XIV, without being subscribed, leads to the fact, I am able to post here. So to say I'm paying money just to post on the forums, but not play the game is ridiculous.



I mean literally, i'm posting (see?) and I have clear inactivity in XIV for the past 5 months (via achievements) minus a 14 day period.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

you don't post your numbers and/or harass people with them (because you will get thrown into Gaol and maybe even banned).

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The development team turns a blind eye to it, as they have with PvP cheaters so far.

They are *not* "ok with it."

People who parse *constantly* harass/bash/ridicule players who often times even do quite respectable damage, but for whatever reasons they feel the need to cut them down.

And Square-Enix does not take action against these players. (Because that takes resources, and man power, and they seem to lack enough to deal with this issue.)

If you feel or pretend otherwise, you, are hurting the numbers/subscriptions for XIV, and clearly dont care.

To me there is no difference in
cheating in PvP, and preventing another player from enjoying the game who isnt cheating,
than
using parses, bashing other players, kicking them from groups, and outright harassing them, and preventing another player from enjoying the game who isnt parsing.

Turning a blind eye to something like this is "being ok with it."

It benefits the user at detriment to others.

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

Turning a blind eye to something like this is "being ok with it."

It benefits the user at detriment to others.

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Then they are ok with the PvP cheating, as its apparently been going on for months and months.

Thus, leads right back to my initial point.

If you are ok with parsing, you cant exactly be against pvp cheating.

That logic is flawed lol.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

If you are ok with parsing, you cant exactly be against pvp cheating.

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>Measuring your DPS and actively cheating are the same thing

It's time to stop.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

If you are ok with parsing, you cant exactly be against pvp cheating.

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Quite Funny, I have something against Cheaters in PvP / PvE but I don't care if someone Parses. Why?

Because I somehow play my Astrologian without getting insulting by others with my Playstyle.
So I assume the Issue is not the other Players but it seems like the Issue is that they do not tolerate your Playstyle.

Getting Kicked out due of playing on ones own is allowed. Adjust your Playstyle and People won't even bother to insult you as you ain't a bad/lazy Player anymore.

If you get Insulted or Harassed, I would think twice why that would happen, sometimes the People that complain about stuff or don't care are the Players that are extremely bad at playing their Job.

#INB4 Parser Discussions

Clearly, no one is going to respond with substance with which I could even pretend to converse with, so yes, it is time to stop.

Also because i'm probably around my last few hours of my registered log in counting.


I am completely baffled that people who parse, not only dont care that people quit because of their attitudes, and treatment of others, but also "like" that people quit because of them.

Seriously, not even capable of conversing/holding a discussion. I was naive to think I could actually *reason* with anyone.



Just a last tidbit of information, I used to do endgame in 1.0 and 2.x, and there *were* people who players said "dont do such and such fight with such and such player" and i was perfectly capable of getting those players into my parties, that i was leading and helping them get their clears. I farmed skirmish with one such player, and helped one clear turn 5 before echo was introduced. So no, its not a matter of *my* "bad/lazy" playstyle, but the treatment of those who have different play styles.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

Clearly, no one is going to respond with substance with which I could even pretend to converse with, so yes, it is time to stop.

Also because i'm probably around my last few hours of my registered log in counting.


I am completely baffled that people who parse, not only dont care that people quit because of their attitudes, and treatment of others, but also "like" that people quit because of them.

Seriously, not even capable of conversing/holding a discussion. I was naive to think I could actually *reason* with anyone.

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Your contributions to that discussion have been "everything you say is wrong unless you agree with me"

Yeah I totally want to keep you around to converse with.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

snip

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But there is a difference and it's sad that you claim there isn't one. One helps you and others improve by using what's in the game (changing your rotation to see which does more damage). The other is outright cheating as it's using a third party tool to change your stats to unrealistic levels. They are not the same and if you continue to claim they are, then it's pointless arguing.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

People who parse *constantly* harass/bash/ridicule players who often times even do quite respectable damage, but for whatever reasons they feel the need to cut them down.

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Hyperbole (and even if they did constantly harass players, then they were have been given a temporary/permanent ban. SE takes harassment reports very seriously). I will say, though, that if I see a BLM/player performing badly and they choose to ignore advice given to help them improve (informing a BLM that they should not be spamming Tier III spells, a SMN to use DoTs for two examples), I will kick them. They might be having fun doing a bad rotation, but I and possibly the other two/six party members would not be.

I'd also like to say I don't get harassed by those who do parse, nor have I ever been kicked (without reason, anyway. I have only been kicked once in FFXIV overall and that was because I got into an argument with a WHM). I was told back in the Gordias days that I needed to improve, but that was about it. I guess that means I'm a decent player.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Hyperbole (and even if they did constantly harass players, then they were have been given a temporary/permanent ban. SE takes harassment reports very seriously). I will say, though, that if I see a BLM/player performing badly and they choose to ignore advice given to help them improve (informing a BLM that they should not be spamming Tier III spells, a SMN to use DoTs for two examples), I will kick them. They might be having fun doing a bad rotation, but I and possibly the other two/six party members would not be.

I'd also like to say I don't get harassed by those who do parse, nor have I ever been kicked (without reason, anyway. I have only been kicked once in FFXIV overall and that was because I got into an argument with a WHM). I was told back in the Gordias days that I needed to improve, but that was about it. I guess that means I'm a decent player.

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And that's the kind of thing you don't really need a parser to figure out.

I know a BLM is doing sub-par dps (not sub-optimal... sub-par) if I see them spamming blizzard spells or spamming tier-III spells and then I check them and they're wearing 2 str rings, a dex neck, and no belt. Yeah.. they're not pulling their weight. I don't need a parser to make that determination.

Where I DO need a parser to help me is when my raid is failing a dps check and I need to figure out why so we can fix it.

At no point is examining a piece of information and then doing math with it the same or even close to artificially altering my character's stats in order to gain a competitive advantage. They aren't even close to the same thing and attempting to equate the two behaviors is akin to saying that jaywalking and murder are the same thing. It's a ridiculous comparison.

Precisely.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

But there is a difference and it's sad that you claim there isn't one. One helps you and others improve by using what's in the game (changing your rotation to see which does more damage). The other is outright cheating as it's using a third party tool to change your stats to unrealistic levels. They are not the same and if you continue to claim they are, then it's pointless arguing.

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Well I am not supporting the person. You could as easily say they are the same in that they A) violate ToS B) give players opportunities other players don't have. They would also both be flagged in someway if the game had an actual cheat detection software. Is the end result the same no, but they definitely slip closer to one side then the other.

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Originally Posted by Stormrider

A) violate ToS B) give players opportunities other players don't have.

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A) Loosely. If you don't mention you're using it and don't post the numbers in XIV chat, then it's pretty much fine. B) Yes and no. If a PS4 player has a friend on PC and they ask (on Discord or something) for their friend to check their numbers, then they're good. SSS is also kind of a place to test if your rotation is good or not. If you can beat the "Soul of the Creator Savage dummy," then your rotation must be pretty decent (in my opinion, anyway). If not, then you may as well look up a guide to see what you could change.

I just see it as being unfair/insulting to lump people who use parsers to improve themselves with people who are shamelessly cheating.

This discussion went from zero to

http://i.imgur.com/E4ADD3y.jpg

after just a few ppl showed up. And not surprisingly its the same people who turn all the posts they contribute to into this type of post.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

A) Loosely. If you don't mention you're using it and don't post the numbers in XIV chat, then it's pretty much fine. I just see it as being unfair/insulting to lump people who use parsers to improve themselves with people who are shamelessly cheating.

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I am not saying they are cheaters. They just fall on the same side of the cheating line. One is closer to not cheating while one is way out. But they still both equal cheating. The whole don't mention, don't ask is because the game doesn't have an anti cheat tool built into it. I believe others have posted the exact line of where the parse is an illegal tool. Does it not directly read game code? But maybe I am wrong and all it does is paste chat numbers into a calculator. I don't use it so I am not sure exactly how it interacts with the game.

I wouldn't really say cheating line. Third Party line would work better, as that is all the two have in common. They weren't made by SE, however one is just showing you numbers (and if you harass someone for low numbers, then you will be punished for it), while the other is changing numbers/data (bots use them all the time).

Leave it to the OF to have people actually thinking parsing is as bad as speedhacking.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I wouldn't really say cheating line.

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I use the word cheating if you consider violation of ToS cheating. I also get that people who go over the speed limit don't consider that breaking the law either. Is the line defined by ToS we agree to or is it what we consider morally acceptable?

I am fine either way I have only seen a few people ever say some numbers about dps in chat. They were quickly vote kicked and we moved. Since I initiated I know no action was taken. All three runs went better after they left. But I chalk that up to everyone enjoying themselves more to any actual dps change.

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Originally Posted by pushin_tin

Leave it to the OF to have people actually thinking parsing is as bad as speedhacking.

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Do be fair here, it's pretty much one guy.

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Originally Posted by Stormrider

I use the word cheating if you consider violation of ToS cheating. I also get that people who go over the speed limit don't consider that breaking the law either. Is the line defined by ToS we agree to or is it what we consider morally acceptable?

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I'd mostly lump it into the 3.X area (harassment, disruption, etc) rather than the 2.1 area (cheating/botting), since Parsers are okay to use, just so long as you don't brag about using them, nor use them to harass players. There's a reason players will always ask for an in-game parser, even if there will never be one.

When are SE going to do something about people who aren't even subbed to the game chipping in here with details of their life story