SCH pet glamors?

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Originally Posted by Miscreant

I don't think Scholars should have the Carbuncles though, if we did it would be really hard to tell who is a Scholar and who is a Summoner at first glance and would just lead to confusion.

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That's actually a good point ^^"

The fairy aesthetic was never for me, but i do enjoy the scholar healing style, i'd have loved to use a carby instead.

They could even be different colors than the SMN carbuncles. Like a dawn carbuncle and a dusk carbuncle. that match eos and selene's color palates

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Originally Posted by GMERC

Go ahead and use a Glamour Dispeller on everything you wear, too. After all, it doesn't do anything to your basic skill rotation, so it's totally worthless. Don't forget to remove any dyes you have applied to your outfit or weapons, too. Worthless!

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Pet =/= Gear

I haven't read all the posts on this topic but sch should be able to glam their fairies too. Maybe not as carbuncles but perhaps something like an angel or as birds.

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Originally Posted by AmalonStar

I haven't read all the posts on this topic but sch should be able to glam their fairies too. Maybe not as carbuncles but perhaps something like an angel or as birds.

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Why should they ? not trying to troll you or anything but the reason for SMN to have glam is the non addition of new Egi because game balance / SE not having new ideas (maybe ?)
The glam is SE's way to make it up to SMN after saying they would have new Egis but finally no.
What would be the reason for SCH ? besides fairness of course

It doesn't make sense lore wise though. While SCH are Arcanists and can summon carbuncles.

The SCH's fairy are actual familiars and not the same aether engineered beings as Carbuncles. Wouldn't make sense to reform the appearance of them.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

It doesn't make sense lore wise though. While SCH are Arcanists and can summon carbuncles.

The SCH's fairy are actual familiars and not the same aether engineered beings as Carbuncles. Wouldn't make sense to reform the appearance of them.

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They are beings of aether with a "mind" attached to the scholar soulstone. The soulstone is what makes Lilly. Not her aetheric body. You ever notice you summon eos with wind and Selene with earth? They represent astral and umbral. Not even the aether you use to construct her matters. Just her memories. Her mind. The soul stone. A form is consequential.

Just give scholars a different set of colors of carbuncles from smn. No confusion. Then give palette swaps later for the fairies.

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Originally Posted by Celef

Why should they ? not trying to troll you or anything but the reason for SMN to have glam is the non addition of new Egi because game balance / SE not having new ideas (maybe ?)
The glam is SE's way to make it up to SMN after saying they would have new Egis but finally no.
What would be the reason for SCH ? besides fairness of course

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The reason is quite simple, it's the same reason why people want to glamor their gear. With smn able to glam their egi's now, it just adds that much more into being able to glamor their fairies.

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Originally Posted by AmalonStar

The reason is quite simple, it's the same reason why people want to glamor their gear. With smn able to glam their egi's now, it just adds that much more into being able to glamor their fairies.

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So basically it's about look right ?
So here is my question again, what about the others glam SMN will have ? should SCH be abble to have them although it's against the lore ? (not talking about Carby but the others glam they'll add)

Altouhg i like your idea of angel and birds, i'm afraid it might make things more complicated than now, woth people wanting SCH glam and vice and versa :/

There are an awful lot of uninformed people posting in this thread. For those clearly unaware, the reason we have the egi-glamours is because Yoshi outright said they will not give SMN any new egis because they couldn't be bothered to balance more than three pets (plenty of other MMOs have pet classes with more than three pets so please don't try to pretend it's a valid excuse).

With regards to SCHs, it makes no sense for them to ever call anything other than fairies. ACNs and SMNs create aetheric constructs from arcane geometries which can take any form they can imagine. SCHs literally ask their fairy friend to come help. The only glamours SCH could ever get for their pets would be new outfits for the fairy... which is missing the fact that SMN is only getting these in the first place because the devs abandoned the original plan for the SMN job to have more pets. The egi-glamours are not a 'nice extra feature' to show special favour to SMN players; they are a massive apology to SMN players because the devs decided to not give us proper pets.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

SMN is only getting these in the first place because the devs abandoned the original plan for the SMN job to have more pets. The egi-glamours are not a 'nice extra feature' to show special favour to SMN players; they are a massive apology to SMN players because the devs decided to not give us proper pets.

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Hmm.... SMN has 3 pets, SCH has 2 'pets'. SMN feels hard done by because they won't have more than 3 pets, which apparently required an apology and developer time to develop an entirely new Ei glamour system; but Sch still only has two 'pets'. SMN get all high and mighty saying that they deserve this and SCH does not, and still SCH has only 2 fairies that they can bring forth.

So you already have more flexibility and variety than SCH, but because SE decided they would not extend that, you get an apology in the form of an exclusive glamour system? And you wonder why SCHs are questioning this?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

And you wonder why SCHs are questioning this?

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Well... yes, it's a system designed to give more summons to the Summoner job without having to balance them. That's basically its entire purpose.

I mean, more fairies is not a topic that really comes up very often, but people haven't shut up about Summoner pets and Summoner reworks for 3 years now. Scholars didn't want this, they're for the most part very happy with their chosen job. They only want it now because someone else has got it, & on top of that it doesn't even really make much sense lore wise for SCH.

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Originally Posted by Mature

I main Smn and this is something totally worthless.

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I main SMN and this is what I've been looking forward to for the longest time. It's literally my favorite thing the entire patch. Does it change my rotation? No. Is it perfect? No. But I know it will have to be changed. When Shiva-egi is introduced and you use Summon III, she (under the current system) would use attacks with fire animations. I know they won't let that fly. Ideally I would like Carbuncle's original Glittering Ruby to return (to conceal Contagion), but Carbuncle's Shockwave animation > Carbuncle's Backdraft animation.

I have the sneaking suspicion that this was pushed back to the last patch before the expansion because there will be a dramatic change with the battle system changes. Whether that means we won't see any more egis in favor of another system, who knows. But you can tell the current system is incomplete and will need tweaking in the future.

But in the meantime, having my old FFXI traveling buddy is literally the best thing ever. :)

After reading all the comments, all i can say is a) the feature is indeed the way SE wants to compensate smns bc of the lack of actual summons b) schs , yeah they were acns but midway they became healers , does carbucle can heal? No, hes a DD , so unless u wanna become a full DD again theres no sense for a sch using carbucle and c) yes sch should get glamours but should be limited to fairies only different colors, males, elemental fairies , nature fairies, etc

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Hmm.... SMN has 3 pets, SCH has 2 'pets'. SMN feels hard done by because they won't have more than 3 pets, which apparently required an apology and developer time to develop an entirely new Ei glamour system; but Sch still only has two 'pets'. SMN get all high and mighty saying that they deserve this and SCH does not, and still SCH has only 2 fairies that they can bring forth.

So you already have more flexibility and variety than SCH, but because SE decided they would not extend that, you get an apology in the form of an exclusive glamour system? And you wonder why SCHs are questioning this?

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SCH was never intended to have more than two fairies and the devs never promised more than that. SMNs were outright promised Leviathan, Shiva and Ramuh egis but the devs then changed their mind when they realised it would be too much work to balance. The egi glamours are to compensate SMNs for that change due to the job not feeling like the series staple that can summon all of the elemental summons.

It's that simple.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Hmm.... SMN has 3 pets, SCH has 2 'pets'. SMN feels hard done by because they won't have more than 3 pets, which apparently required an apology and developer time to develop an entirely new Ei glamour system; but Sch still only has two 'pets'. SMN get all high and mighty saying that they deserve this and SCH does not, and still SCH has only 2 fairies that they can bring forth.

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It's like saying "I'm a bard and i want tourettes because the MCH has and I don't", the 2 classes are different, have a different gameplay, you can't compare the number of pets xD
I don't want to be rude at all but if you wanted more than 2 pets you should have chosen SMN and not SCH ^^"

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Originally Posted by Celef

It's like saying "I'm a bard and i want tourettes because the MCH has and I don't" [...]

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Well it worked for Gauss Barrel... >_>

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Well it worked for Gauss Barrel... >_>

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See, proof to never asked for what the others have, you might get it and regret it xD

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Originally Posted by Celef

It's like saying "I'm a bard and i want tourettes because the MCH has and I don't", the 2 classes are different, have a different gameplay, you can't compare the number of pets xD
I don't want to be rude at all but if you wanted more than 2 pets you should have chosen SMN and not SCH ^^"

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ROTFLMAO! Bard and MCH are completely separate and different jobs. SMN and SCH both develope from Arcanist. The situation is undeniably different.

You're not being rude, though you are deliberately avoiding the obvious truth of what I said.

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Originally Posted by Luna_Braska

After reading all the comments, all i can say is a) the feature is indeed the way SE wants to compensate smns bc of the lack of actual summons b) schs , yeah they were acns but midway they became healers , does carbucle can heal? No, hes a DD , so unless u wanna become a full DD again theres no sense for a sch using carbucle and c) yes sch should get glamours but should be limited to fairies only different colors, males, elemental fairies , nature fairies, etc

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Traditionally carbuncle is a healer type, how about carbuncles healing ruby ability?

Scholars can't have carbuncles as glamour for Eos/Selene because the fairy is a living being, carbuncle is not. it is just a "construct" made by aether, it have no life. That's why summoners can subtitute ifrit/garuda/titan-egi for carbuncles.

Well not on ffxiv, plus as i said it wont make sence for a sch to use other beings beside fairies, which i'd love to have! as a smn but i cant bc sch healing its not for me so i just get over it ; . ;

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Originally Posted by AmalonStar

Traditionally carbuncle is a healer type, how about carbuncles healing ruby ability?

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What?
FF V - casts reflect on the party
FF VI - casts reflect on the party
FF VIII - casts reflect on the party
FF IX - has 4 forms:
- Ruby > reflect
- Diamond > vanish
- Emerald > haste
- Pearl > shell
FF XI - this one could heal
FF XII: Revenant Wings - this one could heal
FF XV - only appears when playing on easy mode, heals Noctis when he falls to critical
FF Tactics, Tactics Advance, and Tactics A2 - casts reflect on allies

Carbuncle has rarely been a healer.

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Originally Posted by MOthe

Scholars can't have carbuncles as glamour for Eos/Selene because the fairy is a living being, carbuncle is not. it is just a "construct" made by aether, it have no life. That's why summoners can subtitute ifrit/garuda/titan-egi for carbuncles.

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That life is just as artificial for selene/eos. She is memories attached to the soulstone. Her body is a construct as well.

Think of it like this:
Carbuncle is a robot made of common metals by a modern process. No capacity to learn.

An Egi is a robot made of alien and common materials. No capacity to learn.

A fairy is a robot made of common materials. Has a deep capacity to learn through soulstone as a memory bank.

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Originally Posted by MOthe

Scholars can't have carbuncles as glamour for Eos/Selene because the fairy is a living being, carbuncle is not.

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Technically, a fairy is just an aetherial construct plugged into a soul stone. It is capable of independent action, but carbuncles have proven to be the same (See Tataru, see Mor Dhona girl, probably more).
Unlike our anima (or even Zeta), fairies don't purposely get instilled with will, personality or even sentience, so whatever will they have is likely residue from previous users. This is very much like Egis, which also share "personality" traits from the original primal whose signature is used in the summoning process.

That said: The real argument here obviously is that the anima should not be able to be discarded, glamoured or unequipped. Because that's just rude towards it.

(to OP) Mmmm... The only reason Scholar summons anything is because it was tied to Arcanist. A summoner is the job that summons a diverse group of creatures.
They could change that, of course. They need to just split the role into two jobs already.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Technically, a fairy is just an aetherial construct plugged into a soul stone. It is capable of independent action, but carbuncles have proven to be the same (See Tataru, see Mor Dhona girl, probably more).
Unlike our anima (or even Zeta), fairies don't purposely get instilled with will, personality or even sentience, so whatever will they have is likely residue from previous users. This is very much like Egis, which also share "personality" traits from the original primal whose signature is used in the summoning process.

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The fairy exists in some capacity regardless of the player character. The quest journal makes it pretty clear, the fairy slept for 1500 years within the stone, she seems to be the exact same entity as she was over millennia ago and even remembers her previous owner. In comparison the Summoner stone provides no such inate summoning capability, you have to go and summon tiny primals and enslave them to your will.
Considering it displays much more independent thought and action than any other summon forcing it to inhabit the body of a carbuncle, if it's even possible, seems almost cruel. The game stubbornly refuses to give us the option to be bad guys ;).

Edit: Journal quotes.

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Originally Posted by Journal

However, Alka Zolka had not anticipated the appearance of an otherworldly creature, one which seemingly burst forth from a crystal you found with the tablets.

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Originally Posted by Journal

He notes that the Soul of the Scholar should have imparted to you a far more diverse repertoire of spells, and concludes that the cause may be your faerie's fifteen-hundred-year slumber.

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Originally Posted by Journal

Based on the reactions of your faerie, Alka Zolka concludes that each is a distinct individual with her own thoughts, feelings, and memories-- an exciting discovery, to be sure,

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Originally Posted by Journal

As Alka Zolk prepared to deliver the final blow, your faerie inexplicably came to the tonberry's defense, providing it with ample time to escape.

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Originally Posted by Journal

Alka Zolka is thrilled by the resemblance you bear to the Nymian scholars of eld. He is not alone in his excitement, as your faerie also appears to approve of your new raiments.

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Originally Posted by Journal

Like his fellow Nymians, Surito was driven mad by his fate— until you returned with his dear companion Lily and cleansed him of his rancor.

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How about the fairy riding carbuncle? lol

Although I think it would cause significant confusion on what carby was what between SCH and SMN, if it was just carby (no change from ACN, add some difference will help - like color, or a fairy riding it :P). Imo SMN due to its own history through the series, needs the glamours, but I could see it being nice for SCH I just don't think the priority level is anywhere near. Perhaps you can unlock boy faries or outfits like you can in that FF mobius game. Still hoping SMN gets a little bit more FFXI/all the other FF games like summons (of course not fill the screen big, but better than magical guinea pig lol).

So imo, SCH getting any regular color carby would be just too confusing (different color or change it somehow perhaps), but it could be neat for them to be able to do some customization. Just keeping in mind that once is unique, do it twice and it's a precedence and so any new pet class will probably use this event (if it happens) to argue for their own customization if SE doesn't supply them out the gate.

FF Mobius fairy:

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/...20160808175203 http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/...20160808181435

Much pixels, very wow :D. (Mobile game + google searched images hehe)

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Originally Posted by Jandor

The fairy exists in some capacity regardless of the player character. The quest journal makes it pretty clear, the fairy slept for 1500 years within the stone, she seems to be the exact same entity as she was over millennia ago and even remembers her previous owner. In comparison the Summoner stone provides no such inate summoning capability, you have to go and summon tiny primals and enslave them to your will.
Considering it displays much more independent thought and action than any other summon forcing it to inhabit the body of a carbuncle, if it's even possible, seems almost cruel. The game stubbornly refuses to give us the option to be bad guys ;).

Edit: Journal quotes.

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You haven't actually proven anything against her claim, if anything you strengthened it. Lilly hibernated within the box with her soul stone. The moment Lilly dies (unsummoned) you construct out of aether, another vessel for her. Kinda like you uploading all your memories and personality to a cloud memory bank. You die in a knife fight because your cousin Rickey forgot to sharpen the blades. That damn Rickey. But it's alright, because the boys back at the lab have made you a new body and uploaded your last memories into it from that cloud storage. You died, but you're alive know, completely knowledgeable on events up to the point where you died! Are you immortal? Kinda. You'll keep learning that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

You haven't actually proven anything against her claim, if anything you strengthened it. Lilly hibernated within the box with her soul stone. The moment Lilly dies (unsummoned) you construct out of aether, another vessel for her. Kinda like you uploading all your memories and personality to a cloud memory bank. You die in a knife fight because your cousin Rickey forgot to sharpen the blades. That damn Rickey. But it's alright, because the boys back at the lab have made you a new body and uploaded your last memories into it from that cloud storage. You died, but you're alive know, completely knowledgeable on events up to the point where you died! Are you immortal? Kinda. You'll keep learning that's for sure.

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Could be argued that it's insulting to restructure someone outside of their memories though, like I get that we're using the stone and her presence inside so perhaps its feasible you can "overwrite the code" that she provides you - and change the shape she desired. But yeah, that's like me asking to be formed into a manderville man and instead you decide a flaming shaved snurble would be much cuter.

I think it'd be best if SE keeps the faeries as faeries in some aspect, find her brother you can use, she gets bored of her outfit and you get her a new one, she thinks your carby is exceptionally cute and wants to ride it, I dunno - but I think it'd be best if they stay explicitly faeries. Or at least until new things are added to scholar, maybe you don't always only use faeries. But SMN stuff is more of a personal construct you create with someone else's power (through lore) and the faeries are not a personal vessel but something outside of you that you help power. SMN forcing change is like carpenter forcing a tree to be a chair, SCH forcing change is like beastmaster making a manticore mate with a moogle XD (slight hyperbole but yeah lol).

Well SMN was disappointing in 3.0 and made many people drop the job to include myself. Though it wasn't the only job that 3.0 left a bad taste in players mouth. Egi glamour was SE's consolation prize for not adding new summons to FFXIV's pet job. There was also demand to let players summon carbuncle again because many felt it was a better designed pet over the Egi.

As for SCH, I wouldn't mind the pet glamour system being extended to the job and there are many iconic healer summons they could use.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

You haven't actually proven anything against her claim, if anything you strengthened it.

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I'm not sure how. It was claimed that fairies are just constructs the same as any other, but the game outright says they're a "distinct individual with their own thoughts, feelings, and memories."

Carbuncles have thoughts, feelings and memories sure, but nothing from before you summon them. If a back up does exist of your carbuncle it exists in you, not independent on you like the fairy.
Basically, carbuncles are extensions of your will, the fairy is not. Which seemed to be the main claim to me.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

ROTFLMAO! Bard and MCH are completely separate and different jobs. SMN and SCH both develope from Arcanist. The situation is undeniably different.

You're not being rude, though you are deliberately avoiding the obvious truth of what I said.

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Agreed they develope from ARC but then they become 2 differents class, as different as MCH and BRD or even BLM and NIN for example ^^"
I'de say even more regarding they do not even have the same role in the team.

That's why i agree with you they should both be abble to use Carby as glam but Carby only (speaking of shared glam, not against SCH having his own like you suggested). The issue lies beyond that.
What if SE agrees to make a shared Carby glam but won't add exclusif glam to SCH ? won't they be asking for the SMN one's then ?
If so, what shoud SE do ? Give SCH SMN glam while the job has nothing to do with Egi at all ?
(they explained why we could carby-glam, if I glam my Garuda as Carby, it's still Garuda's essence I summon with another appearance in mind)

Could you explain me the ROTFLMAO please ? english not being my mother tongue I learn everyday ^^"

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Originally Posted by Shougun

How about the fairy riding carbuncle? lol

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that would be the best comprmis ever and would make me go back to SCH ! xD

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Originally Posted by MOthe

Scholars can't have carbuncles as glamour for Eos/Selene because the fairy is a living being, carbuncle is not. it is just a "construct" made by aether, it have no life. That's why summoners can subtitute ifrit/garuda/titan-egi for carbuncles.

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I don't know why people are bringing lore into this, lore can be manipulated, and there are a billion scenarios I can think of that make fairy glamour viable (I posted earlier about aetherial masks to hide Lily from suspicion/danger, ala allied beast quest 2.x). The point is that mechanically, SCH uses the same pet system as SMN, and has not been given access to something that would serve the job well (and with the system now in place, would not be difficult to expand upon). We might have different pets, but in the lore my SCH is still attuned to the aetherial signiture of carbuncle, and could easily use it as a mask for lily (my buttons even still have carbuncle on them)

I didn't buy the egi glamour lore anyway, "just think about another primal while summoning your egi and its aetherial signiture will be changed" really square? If that works then SCHs lore can easily be expanded upon (as I said, same logic applies to an aetherial mask, which is something that already exists within the game lore).

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I don't know why people are bringing lore into this

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Because it will probally be SE's excuse to not bring it and we all know that ^^"
They can't clearly say "we don't have time" because they found it for SMN or "We are affraid some players might want more" because it's not commercial at all to suggest your clients are never satisfied with what they get ^^" (which is true, but a secret xD)

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Originally Posted by Seniade

What?
FF V - casts reflect on the party
FF VI - casts reflect on the party
FF VIII - casts reflect on the party
FF IX - has 4 forms:
- Ruby > reflect
- Diamond > vanish
- Emerald > haste
- Pearl > shell
FF XI - this one could heal
FF XII: Revenant Wings - this one could heal
FF XV - only appears when playing on easy mode, heals Noctis when he falls to critical
FF Tactics, Tactics Advance, and Tactics A2 - casts reflect on allies

Carbuncle has rarely been a healer.

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Just made my point there, while not in every game carbuncle does using healing magic but as you've also pointed out carbuncle uses other support magics too.

Either way sch fairy can still get glamor's either use carbuncle with different colours or they can use other lore type beings like forest nymphs or things like that. There is a wide array of glamor ideas they can use for sch.

Carbuncle for SMN self-buffs (or party buffs, DPS have party buffs, too)!

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Originally Posted by Celef

Could you explain me the ROTFLMAO please ? english not being my mother tongue I learn everyday ^^"

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Certainly, it's a much more emphatic version of LOL( Laughing Out Loud).

ROTFLMAO is normally thought of as "Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Ass Off". It's an old abbreviation from the days of the internet before Forums such as this were common, and instead Usenet newsgroups were king. There were no emoticons or emojis to use, and people came up with all sorts of abbreviations to use as short hand, and shorten posts. ROTFLMAO can convey things like I fell out of my seat because I laughed so hard, or I was rolling on the floor laughing uncontrollably, that kind of thing. It's exaggerated of course, like most Internet abbreviations...

I was laughing because MCH and BRD are so completely separate that I could not see the similarity in position to SMN & SCH, which do share their primary root class.

I used ROTFLMAO instead of LOL because I wanted it to be more emphatic about being amused by the comparison.

As it happens I agree with both you and Shougun about the faerie riding a carbuncle as a SCH glamour, or something along those lines. I like Eos and Selene, a visual make over for each of them that retains their basic appearance/personality would be great. I just don't buy into SE spending a significant developer effort on SMN only to 'apologize' to SMN for Egi not meeting player expectations. A several have pointed out the underlying mechanics of Egi and Faerie are identical in most respects, so extending the system to cover SCH with glamours specific to Eos and Selene would be fairly straightforward for SE, and would certainly make better use of the time spend developing 'pet' glamours.

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Originally Posted by Averax

The fairy aesthetic was never for me, but i do enjoy the scholar healing style, i'd have loved to use a carby instead.

They could even be different colors than the SMN carbuncles. Like a dawn carbuncle and a dusk carbuncle. that match eos and selene's color palates

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That is a neat idea, and what is his name summoned a ....

a grey/black one to catch an arrow

How do spoiler tags work here?

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Originally Posted by AmalonStar

Just made my point there, while not in every game carbuncle does using healing magic but as you've also pointed out carbuncle uses other support magics too.

Either way sch fairy can still get glamor's either use carbuncle with different colours or they can use other lore type beings like forest nymphs or things like that. There is a wide array of glamor ideas they can use for sch.

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that works too, i just do not like giving SMN only them and ignoring SCH

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

[spoiler] ----[/spoiler]
How do spoiler tags work here?

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[hb ] [/ hb] (removing the space in the brackets of course)

boop.