Red Mage Gear - DoM or DoW?

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

I would rather all classes have original sets so they keep their identity. Get rid of DoW and DoM please SE.

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that would be nice, and require them to design 20x more armors, which isn't going to happen, since they are already copy-pasting armors cross-role, and recoloring old gear.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

since they are already copy-pasting armors cross-role, and recoloring old gear.

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Neither of which are bad things.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

it's a caster job, why would it use dex??

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Because a lot of gear that was given to BRD/MCH suits RDM's aesthetic incredibly well (WoD aiming set, for example).

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mages need to be in melee range for raid mechanics (stacking) so they should get def boost then? not gonna happen.
there's no danger in being in melee range unless you're tanking, and RDM isn't tank, so they don't need def boost.

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This entirely hinges on how the mobility skills we saw affect gameplay. If the mobility skills are along the lines of Elusive Jump/Repelling Shot, then you won't be using them much and can afford to not have any bonuses to defense or mitigation. If the gameplay of the job is built around getting to range to cast spells because of some bullshit mechanic that makes those spells full potency at range, that's another story.

Hmmmm....
Logic dictates that it'll share gear with other DoMs.

But can you imagine the aesthetic of it. RDM don't usually have the same aesthetic as other casters. So either they make a new type of gear to match their own aesthetic outside of artifact, or they just make them share DoM gears and don't care about the aesthetic because glamour.

Or they make future shared DoM gear more varied for the sake of aesthetics.

For some reason they refused to comment when asked. Maybe they don't quite have it worked out yet

So what if RDM has a diff aesthetic to the other casters?

SMNs have had to deal with sharing gear that suits BLMs appearance wise, and likewise SCHs with WHM, MCH with BRD, DRK with the other tanks, etc. RDM is unlikely to be the exception here. Like the other Jobs they'll get their AF gear and beyond that will share Caster gear like SMN/BLM do, regardless of design.

I suspect it will have its own line of equipment the way Ninja does. Those saying it will share "caster" equipment with Black Mage and Summoner fail to see that Red Mage is both a caster AND a fighter. From that angle, the idea that it will share the same equipment as them is nonsensical.

I am just guessing it is DoM type.

Everything now is just a opinion until the actual release anyways.

Guessing it's main stat is INT?

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

So what if RDM has a diff aesthetic to the other casters?

SMNs have had to deal with sharing gear that suits BLMs appearance wise, and likewise SCHs with WHM, MCH with BRD, DRK with the other tanks, etc. RDM is unlikely to be the exception here. Like the other Jobs they'll get their AF gear and beyond that will share Caster gear like SMN/BLM do, regardless of design.

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because RDM has a different combat style *supposedly*
They weave in and out of melee range as they do spells and skills.
Robes just aren't suited for that kind of combat style.

BLM and SMN have similar aesthetic since they are both mainly turret casters. Even if SMNs are less so.
But I can see them taking the easy way out in just not caring about aesthetics outside of AF gear.
Because again, glamours.

All the XIV Jobs have a relatively different combat style to each other within their respective roles. The whole melee deal will simply be a thing that helps distinguish RDM in XIV, (like DRK with MP management, AST with Cards, SCH with fairy etc), not something to warrant giving it its own separate Caster loot table.

Similar to how Ninja got it's own when released, Red Mage will very likely get it's own gear line post 50 (or possibly 60) and be added to the existing casting gear prior to that. The only thing I wouldn't be sure of is if their class specific line would start at 50 or 60. Probably 50 if I had to guess. I.e. 50/60+ gear would be a melee/caster hybrid look of light leather slash cloth with INT as a main stat, and anything lower level than that would be glamour available to ACN/THM.

I personally think it would be best if RDM were classed as a melee. Now we're going to have 3 melee competing for two dps raid spots and 5 non-melee competing for the 2 other raid spots, and still only 3 jobs with a melee LB.

Stat-wise it should use INT or STR because we already have 3 DEX users. On the other hand it could use DEX and share gear with NIN. After all, they are both agile and fast jobs who utilize magic and wear leather. :rolleyes:

My guess is that it will use INT as its main stat and have its own DoM gear set, while Samurai fills the melee dps void and shares gear with DRG.

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Originally Posted by GMERC

Neither of which are bad things.

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it's ok as an added bonus (glam items) but not as a main "attraction" for highest level gear.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Because a lot of gear that was given to BRD/MCH suits RDM's aesthetic incredibly well (WoD aiming set, for example)..

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the same can be said for most gear, most of which are role locked.
HA fending armor looks great on DRG for example....can't do that.
HA healing gear would look awesome on nin (assassins creed:ish look) can't do that.
it would be nice if they could just remove most of the restrictions, and it would be awesome.

it would be absurd to put RDM in ranged gear, for that; i hope they just make less of the boring robes+pointy hat, and make caster gear that looks good on both BLM/SMN as well as RDM - also they will probably continue to make gear where casters/ranged share look anyway.
with glam system, it doesn't really matter what the gear actually looks like anyway.

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Originally Posted by hagare

because RDM has a different combat style *supposedly*
They weave in and out of melee range as they do spells and skills.
Robes just aren't suited for that kind of combat style.

BLM and SMN have similar aesthetic since they are both mainly turret casters. Even if SMNs are less so.
But I can see them taking the easy way out in just not caring about aesthetics outside of AF gear.
Because again, glamours.

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robes aren't suited for any kind of combat, it's just an annoying unrealistic gimmick.

Redmage must be DoM (Mage).

Classes using STR:

• Monk
• Dragoon
• Samurai (?)

Classes using INT:

• Blackmage
• Summoner
• Redmage

Classes using DEX:

• Bard
• Machinist
• Ninja

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

Redmage must be DoM (Mage).

Classes using STR:

• Monk
• Dragoon
• Samurai (?)

Classes using INT:

• Blackmage
• Summoner
• Redmage

Classes using DEX:

• Bard
• Machinist
• Ninja

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For stats, yes, that is very likely what the case will be and is nicely balanced. But that list breaks down when used as an argument for equippable gear which is what the question is about. The STR and DEX gear sets both already have 2 separate sets each.
1. DRG (maiming)
2. MNK/SAM? (striking)
3. NIN (scouting)
4. BRD/MCH (aiming)
5. BLM/SMN (casting)

I suspect that RDM will get its own "6. RDM (fencing)" rather than become part of a "5. BLM/SMN/RDM (casting)" set. Caveat: low level gear, and thus low level glamour items, will be more general, obviously.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

For stats, yes, that is very likely what the case will be and is nicely balanced. But that list breaks down when used as an argument for equippable gear which is what the question is about. The STR and DEX gear sets both already have 2 separate sets each.
1. DRG (maiming)
2. MNK/SAM? (striking)
3. NIN (scouting)
4. BRD/MCH (aiming)
5. BLM/SMN (casting)

I suspect that RDM will get its own "6. RDM (fencing)" rather than become part of a "5. BLM/SMN/RDM (casting)" set. Caveat: low level gear, and thus low level glamour items, will be more general, obviously.

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there's specific reasons for them having different sets.
DRG has it's own set, cause it has more plate-oriented sets, unlike other melee jobs.
NIN is dex based, unlike other melee jobs.
since RDM should obviously be int, there's 0 reason for them to not share gear with BLM/SMN. actually there's a good reason for them to share caster gear....loot bloat...we DO NOT NEED MORE SETS TO ROLL ON IN DUNGEONS AND RAIDS - are we supposed to get a new set for every new job? i pointed out DRK as an example earlier...there's just 2 sets that fit them, so should they get a "darkness" line of gear for that too?

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Originally Posted by Radacci

there's specific reasons for them having different sets.
DRG has it's own set, cause it has more plate-oriented sets, unlike other melee jobs.
NIN is dex based, unlike other melee jobs.
since RDM should obviously be int, there's 0 reason for them to not share gear with BLM/SMN.

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You just argued in favour of RDM having their own look for gear. Red Mages in every incarnation from the main series wear leather and chain type armor unlike other casting jobs.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

loot bloat...we DO NOT NEED MORE SETS TO ROLL ON IN DUNGEONS AND RAIDS - are we supposed to get a new set for every new job?

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This is a more valid argument in favour of stacking armor types. The other side of that argument, however, is loot meaningfulness. Are we supposed to easily gear multiple jobs with a single drop? E.g. Blue Mage will very likely be coming at some point (even possibly instead of SAM - that's still not 100% settled) and that would easily share a set with RDM. Having 4 mage jobs rolled into the caster set would make gearing all 4 simultaneously very easy. And really, we are talking at this point about only 7 current distinct set lines counting fending and healing too. The addition of one to make it 8 isn't exactly what I would call a bloated loot situation given that there will soon be 15 jobs.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

robes aren't suited for any kind of combat, it's just an annoying unrealistic gimmick.

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Oh please. Thematically, BLM and SMN are fine with robes since they don't move when casting.

And their combat stye doesn't require a lot of movement.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

E.g. Blue Mage will very likely be coming at some point (even possibly instead of SAM - that's still not 100% settled) and that would easily share a set with RDM.

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I just had a thought that maybe this is why they specifically declined to talk about Red Mage gear. I.e. It is to be a gear set shared with Blue Mage, and they didn't want to give out any accidental information or hints about the Blue Mage job being the second job in Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

For stats, yes, that is very likely what the case will be and is nicely balanced. But that list breaks down when used as an argument for equippable gear which is what the question is about. The STR and DEX gear sets both already have 2 separate sets each.
1. DRG (maiming)
2. MNK/SAM? (striking)
3. NIN (scouting)
4. BRD/MCH (aiming)
5. BLM/SMN (casting)

I suspect that RDM will get its own "6. RDM (fencing)" rather than become part of a "5. BLM/SMN/RDM (casting)" set. Caveat: low level gear, and thus low level glamour items, will be more general, obviously.

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It very likely is not going to happen, sorry to disappoint you. They already got a ton of flack for bloating the loot table with Scouting gear. Also by your logic, why doesn't DRK use their own set? Or MCH? Or AST? Where is my Jacket of Shooting?

People can do mental gymnastics all you want in attempts to justify it having it's own set, but it is confirmed as a ranged caster. It is a DoM. Common sense says they are put into Casting gear.

Also for future jobs, how is SE going to accommodate more gear sets for other new jobs in the future? You have to think what is actually practical over what seems cool in your head.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

They already got a ton of flack for bloating the loot table with Scouting gear.

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I swear to Halone, Return to Ishgard had better have a token system.

I've already listed several practical considerations if you go back and read. E.g. RDM and BLU. SAM has a place to share with either MNK ot DRG depending on whether they prefer the eastern look or the tankier plate look for it.

As for DRK (and AST) not getting its own look... that can probably be explained by the relative populations of tank and healer archetypes. Putting all the tanks (and healers) into one loot group of 3+ jobs favours playing more than one or two of those archetypes because you'll have several of them well geared by virtue of gearing one. Limiting dps to one or two per gear set encourages playing different archetypes since you won't automatically have a bunch of dps jobs well geared because you geared one of them. In short, it's a subtle way of nudging players to be more likely to play the less popular tank and healer archetypes.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

You just argued in favour of RDM having their own look for gear. Red Mages in every incarnation from the main series wear leather and chain type armor unlike other casting jobs.


This is a more valid argument in favour of stacking armor types. The other side of that argument, however, is loot meaningfulness. Are we supposed to easily gear multiple jobs with a single drop?

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Yes, you are, because that's the whole point of this games Armory System, as part of it's selling point (i.e how you can play/switch between multiple Jobs on one character).

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E.g. Blue Mage will very likely be coming at some point (even possibly instead of SAM - that's still not 100% settled) and that would easily share a set with RDM.

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So the Job (SAM) that was in serious contention with DRK as the 3.0 flagship tank is less likely to appear in XIV over the Job (BLU) that Yoshi has stated on 2 occasions as not being suitable for XIV's environment? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

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Having 4 mage jobs rolled into the caster set would make gearing all 4 simultaneously very easy.

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So what. This is already a thing with the current Tanks and Healers, as well as NIN/BRD/MCH (right side loot). Also, again being able to gear multiple Jobs of the same role is part of this game's design. If anything, making RDM share Caster loot would not only encourage existing Casters towards picking it up, but also the reverse with new players that pick up RDM and later on become curious on how the other Caster Jobs play.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

I've already listed several practical considerations if you go back and read. E.g. RDM and BLU. SAM has a place to share with either MNK ot DRG depending on whether they prefer the eastern look or the tankier plate look for it.

As for DRK (and AST) not getting its own look... that can probably be explained by the relative populations of tank and healer archetypes. Putting all the tanks (and healers) into one loot group of 3+ jobs favours playing more than one or two of those archetypes because you'll have several of them well geared by virtue of gearing one. Limiting dps to one or two per gear set encourages playing different archetypes since you won't automatically have a bunch of dps jobs well geared because you geared one of them. In short, it's a subtle way of nudging players to be more likely to play the less popular tank and healer archetypes.

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The categories exist to begin with so the system isn't bloated. The reason Scouting even exists is because the developers believe that a DEX based melee can be it's own category that multiple jobs in the future can branch off of. How many jobs do you plan on putting in Fencing gear? Why not just have job specific gear? I am sure that wouldn't be a huge damper on their resources.

I don't get this argument. What does it matter in which group Red Mage gets plugged in. If you're not glamouring the Pimp hat and jacket 24/7-365 until Yoshida flips out and dumps this game, why bother playing Red Mage. Though don't get your hopes up that Red Mage artifact gear will be released with the disk, cause that's not gonna happen. So just suffer for a while.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

You just argued in favour of RDM having their own look for gear. Red Mages in every incarnation from the main series wear leather and chain type armor unlike other casting jobs.

Blue Mage will very likely be coming at some point

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thematically sure, but it would be ridiculous to give them their own line of gear, for only that; as i said, then they might as well give a darkness line of gear to DRK as well, and a savagery to WAR, and maybe Librarian for SCH while we're at it.
they aren't going to add new types of gear, unless there's a practical reason for it...at least i hope so -.- if they add a fencing set, i'll get really triggered.

depends on what role they will be.
it's better to gear 4 similar jobs at the same time, than having to gear 15 separate jobs...you can be any job on one character, so why wouldn't one caster job be able to use caster gear, that all other casters, can? no one has ever complained about DRK sharing gear with PLD/WAR, so why are ppl complaining about RDM sharing gear with other casters, when they are as thematically varied?
we had 6 to begin with, then they added scouting, and fencing next? so when will it end? beast for BLU, cause robes don't fit their looks? blademaster for SAM, cause the other tank/drg gear don't fit them?

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Originally Posted by hagare

Oh please. Thematically, BLM and SMN are fine with robes since they don't move when casting.

And their combat stye doesn't require a lot of movement.

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they are fine with being in sleeping bags too, since they aren't moving a lot, that doesn't mean it makes sense.
ranged don't move a lot either, esp after getting cast bars, so lets stuff them in robes too?

anyway lol, i thought this thread would only need 1 simple reply, but trust the FF community to overly complicate things cause of nostalgia.
just remember Yoshi has been quite adamant about keeping things simple, and dumbing down content for beginners, as well as pruning skill bloat, so it's not unlikely that you'll eventually have 5+ jobs sharing gear.
it's enough with every job having their own artifact armors.

speaking of artifact armors, how many ppl do you actually see running around in thematically accurate glamours? 0,1% of players?
99% of red mages are going to be female miq/au'ra in a variety of skimpy clothing that has nothing to do with RDM theme, so /shrug.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

speaking of artifact armors, how many ppl do you actually see running around in thematically accurate glamours? 0,1% of players?
99% of red mages are going to be female miq/au'ra in a variety of skimpy clothing that has nothing to do with RDM theme, so /shrug.

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Guess I'll be in the 0.01% that does neither with my Red Mage once I main that job.

So here's the can of worms as far as I can see being discussed: Just how much like a caster and how much like a melee will it be as a hybrid?

Defense) RDM should probably have better physical defense than DoM if they're jumping into melee range. It isn't essential, but it'd be a situation like DRG in early 2.0 when it had bad magic defense.

Aesthetics) RDM probably shouldn't do the robed mage look a whole lot. Its not historically restricted to mage armor.

Loot pool/gear sharing) I'd like to easily switch between RDM and BLM (or SMN), but I'm more inclined to think it'll have its own INT-based left side set. More loot in the pool is going to eventually lead to more token exchanges or more drops per chest.

Main stat) Probably INT. All magic except Ninjitsu is either INT or MND. Will it have a stancing/conversion system where it can change effectiveness of certain skills/spells?

Substats) Speeds need to be unified by 4.0 battle system changes, along with removal of accuracy and parry. Or RDM needs to have 1 speed apply to melee and magic.

Auto-attacks) Yoshi mentioned auto-attacks and adjusting damage output for being at range so it isn't penalized by its in/out positional style. A big difference between melees and casters and ranged is their weapon D/auto-attacks/stance which are meant to balance output of their very different attack patterns. Will be interesting to see how they make it work for RDM.

Cross Role Skills/Native utility) Same choices as casters? More options due to hybrid nature? Any of the CNJ healing kit for situational use (Raise, Stoneskin, Cure, Protect)? If it has a utility heal or personal heal, how would it compare to caster Physick or melee Second Wind? Will it inflict one or more damage vulnerabilities, and which? Will its damage be entirely magical? What sort of utility aside from caster debuffs will it bring to the table natively?

Limit Break) Caster or Melee?

8-man slot) Will RDM displace DRG/MNK/NIN offering comparable utilities/damage vulnerability infliction? Or will it compete with casters? Will it be able to fill in function for either slot in most ways (except for LB)?


LB & gear type will be the defining factors I think when it comes to party slot. Who you compete with for gear should be who you compete with for a spot in the party most of the time. LB type is an important factor in party comp as well, given 3 types present in a healthy dps comp, and 4 dps slots available.

That sure is a whole lot of your opinion.

I'm leaning towards casting gear myself.