Why do people want SAM to be a tank!?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SonyTriple

https://media.giphy.com/media/ddd0HBTakik00/giphy.gif

Samurai/Shogun def needs to be a tank tho.

---

I never want to be taken seriously, reason why I have that sig in the first place, there's a reason why I'm named Pinkie pie.
http://www.asciify.net/ascii/thumb/4...ce-nospace.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Derio

Because dps is already getting a new job and tanks need more variety. We only had 2 to choose from before DRK showed up. Compare that to the options dps have

---

I am damn sure more Tanks took advantage of going DRK than Dspers dropped their main for machinist.. I might go so far as to say I think Machinist is the least played Dps and quite possibly the least played class.

I don't want samurai to be tank.

I would say it would be a waste, so does my cousin he said, just because it had tanking ability in FFXI doesn't mean it should be a tank.

third eye maybe not even a skill in ffxiv

IF SE are releasing 4 new jobs then sure, make SAM a tank for all I care but if it's 3 then one of each class is not the best idea. Tanks and healers are the least played classes, even in a 4 man party half of the party is DPS. If we follow this trajectory then in a few more expansions time we will have a bunch of healers and tanks that never see the light of day. Most people play DPS and as a personal preference and content is designed around needing more DPS than the other roles. This is why we have 3 tanks, 3 healers and 7 DPS as of right now.

If SAM is to be released then I'd like to see it as a melee with enough AoE ability to compete with BLM and SMN, at least it would feel like something different then. The next tank I would like to see would be some kind of mage tank (maybe BLU) instead of SAM which I can't see adding too much to the variety of tanking given the lore and aesthetic style of the Samurai. If we get another healer then I'd like DNC which uses TP to heal instead of MP, a bit like the FF11 version but obviously it would have to work with the FF14 meta. In FF11 DNC was also a good casual content tank due to it's obnoxious levels of self healing which kept it alive and generated plenty of hate but I don't think it would work like that in FF14 so melee healer would be the best fit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artemiz

IF SE are releasing 4 new jobs then sure, make SAM a tank for all I care but if it's 3 then one of each class is not the best idea. Tanks and healers are the least played classes.

---

Counter point: Most DPS players are happy with their class and have no interest in swapping to something new. Machinist is nowhere near as popular as Ast or Drk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jomoru

Counter point: Most DPS players are happy with their class and have no interest in swapping to something new. Machinist is nowhere near as popular as Ast or Drk.

---

That's just an over generalisation that you cannot prove and can easily be applied to both healers and tanks too. My main is PLD, I didn't jump on DRK and I probably wouldn't jump on SAM if it was a tank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jomoru

Counter point: Most DPS players are happy with their class and have no interest in swapping to something new. Machinist is nowhere near as popular as Ast or Drk.

---

Loving DRG so far. But if I find a job that can tear me away from him, I'll probably change.

Bard becomes a samurai at level 70 and loses all songs.

Probably because....

Tanks want to play something new as much as you do.
Flavor to tank roll even more.
And to help with the abysmal queue times when Red Mage is released.

Yes, I know you can level up in Palace of the Dead. You won't get a feel for you job and learn it properly in there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

Bard becomes a samurai at level 70 and loses all songs.

---

Except Wanderer's Minuet.

For reasons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

Bard becomes a samurai at level 70 and loses all songs.

---

Well, samurai can use bows in real life so I kind of buy what you're saying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artemiz

That's just an over generalisation that you cannot prove and can easily be applied to both healers and tanks too. My main is PLD, I didn't jump on DRK and I probably wouldn't jump on SAM if it was a tank.

---

No, no it can't. A higher percentage of Tank players play DRK than DPS players play Machinist. Same with AST for healers. The Repeat I've consistantly gotten from the people I play with(which is only anicdotal so I take it with a grain of salt) is Machinist is too similar to Bard, those who didn't like Bard don't find Machinist filling in the gaps, those who DID like bard already leveled Bard and were "Well I already leveled Bard"

So the idea that a new DPS class will intrinsically be more used is flawed, it has to be sufficiently different from the other 8 options.. and they've shown that to be difficult so far with potential for failure. This would be PROFOUNDLY compounded by putting out more than one Dps class at the same time trying to both balance them with the current setup along with making them feel sufficiently different than someone feels the effort to level them vs continuing with what they have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hagare

Loving DRG so far. But if I find a job that can tear me away from him, I'll probably change.

---

Presumably you'd want something that plays ALOT different from any current options because if not you'd just stick with Dragoon, or would you be happy with Dragoon basically refluffed with a giant sword and called Samurai?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artemiz

That's just an over generalisation that you cannot prove and can easily be applied to both healers and tanks too. My main is PLD, I didn't jump on DRK and I probably wouldn't jump on SAM if it was a tank.

---

If you look at the official census data though, dark knight was undeniably the most successful of the 3 Heavensward jobs. It's seen the largest increase in population compared to both ast and mch and is the highest percentage of tank jobs leveled despite being locked behind an expansion.

That says a lot.

If it's a tank class then I'm going to be pissed b/c they were deciding on DRK or SAM to be the tank class in Heavensward and ultimately they decided to go with DRK as the tank class since the setting for Heavensward wasn't right for SAM and on top of that Yoshida already said he sees SAM as more of a DPS than a tank. If it's a tank then I would've wished they would've just added it in Heavensward like they originally wanted and made DRK a 2 handed DPS class instead.

Also, SAM has always been a DPS class in all the FF games. I know that doesn't apply here as we saw with DRK getting the twist of becoming a tank in this game when they also have always been a DPS class in other FF games, but in all honesty I've always seen SAM as a hard hitting 2 handed DPS class.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiyashi

If it's a tank class then I'm going to be pissed b/c they were deciding on DRK or SAM to be the tank class in Heavensward and ultimately they decided to go with DRK as the tank class since the setting for Heavensward wasn't right for SAM and on top of that Yoshida already said he sees SAM as more of a DPS than a tank. If it's a tank then I would've wished they would've just added it in Heavensward like they originally wanted and made DRK a 2 handed DPS class instead.

---

Just because they picked one for the Tank in Heavensward doesn't mean the other one automatically becomes a DPS. It's more logical to assume that after they implemented one, that the other would be the next tank.

Quote:

---

Also, SAM has always been a DPS class in all the FF games.

---

You're absolutely wrong, but ok.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiyashi

but in all honesty I've always seen SAM as a hard hitting 2 handed DPS class.

---

But not someone with a 2 handed Axe?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuperGandhi

But not someone with a 2 handed Axe?

---

Man, what a great tanking weapon axe is amirite? With it's inferior speed and maneuverability over a sword as well!
It can't possibly be a DPS weapon with it's sheer impact power over any other weapon class save for hammer right?

It's like tanks are completely incapable of doing any "hard hits" or "powerful strikes". All they seem to do is just stand there and hold their weapons up to perpetually block or parry.

It's not like tanks, especially in this game, are quite possibly the most badass role.

It's not like they're the guys literally in the front doing mortal combat with several giant dragons, pagan gods and time-travelling fortresses; shrugging off giant sky piercing death-beams and returning the pain with powerful cleaves/eating souls/unleashing their spirits from inside(I tried).

Oh but clearly, Samurai, the eastern warrior that thrives in honour and practices the art of war as their craft are more fitting as the role that strikes from the rear and falls flat on their face as soon as anything threatening so much as breathes in their direction. Who would've known?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiyashi

If it's a tank class then I'm going to be pissed b/c they were deciding on DRK or SAM to be the tank class in Heavensward and ultimately they decided to go with DRK as the tank class since the setting for Heavensward wasn't right for SAM and on top of that Yoshida already said he sees SAM as more of a DPS than a tank. If it's a tank then I would've wished they would've just added it in Heavensward like they originally wanted and made DRK a 2 handed DPS class instead.

Also, SAM has always been a DPS class in all the FF games. I know that doesn't apply here as we saw with DRK getting the twist of becoming a tank in this game when they also have always been a DPS class in other FF games, but in all honesty I've always seen SAM as a hard hitting 2 handed DPS class.

---

Honestly I don't think a melee dps was likely to be added in HW and with RDM we probably won't see one in Stormblood. Melee dps are already the most common available job. They were bound to fill out the others first.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jomoru

A higher percentage of Tank players play DRK than DPS players play Machinist. Same with AST for healers.

---

There's other reasons for this...

1. DRK fights for MT with PLD, and in a lot of situations you're better off with DRK because of the higher DPS they can push. DRK are also better in any instance that deals high magic damage to the MT.

2. AST is brokenly OP so of course a lot of healers are using it. It has nice aesthetics, but a raiding party is strongest with SCH+AST right now. Also cards.

Well, if Samurai is being added in Stormblood, and SE follows the standard of adding 1 of each role as a new job, and with RDM being revealed and shown to us as a DPS, then Samurai could either be a tank, a healer, or not included in this expansion. I can't say I would want it to be a Healer as I'm not sure that makes sense. It could be a tank, but that does give us 3 sword tanks. It could also be saved for a future expansion, but would that annoy people wanting to play Samurai really badly?

It feels like, "Tank, or bust," at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vexander

snip

---

hehe yeah in any case this go to be a stormblood

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FallenWings

Man, what a great tanking weapon axe is amirite? With it's inferior speed and maneuverability over a sword as well!
It can't possibly be a DPS weapon with it's sheer impact power over any other weapon class save for hammer right?

It's like tanks are completely incapable of doing any "hard hits" or "powerful strikes". All they seem to do is just stand there and hold their weapons up to perpetually block or parry.

It's not like tanks, especially in this game, are quite possibly the most badass role.

It's not like they're the guys literally in the front doing mortal combat with several giant dragons, pagan gods and time-travelling fortresses; shrugging off giant sky piercing death-beams and returning the pain with powerful cleaves/eating souls/unleashing their spirits from inside(I tried).

Oh but clearly, Samurai, the eastern warrior that thrives in honour and practices the art of war as their craft are more fitting as the role that strikes from the rear and falls flat on their face as soon as anything threatening so much as breathes in their direction. Who would've known?

---

https://media.giphy.com/media/7rj2ZgttvgomY/giphy.gif
Bless you for this post.

Why do people want SAM to be a DPS?!?
Why not a tank?!?

Why do people want SAM to be a tank?!?
Why not a DPS?!?

Why does no one want SAM to be a heal?!?


What about leaving the devs do what they want with their game and just enjoy it instead oh whining all the time?!?


Why add Viera?!?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FallenWings

Legendary post

---

I agree 103%

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VanilleFang

There's other reasons for this...

1. DRK fights for MT with PLD, and in a lot of situations you're better off with DRK because of the higher DPS they can push. DRK are also better in any instance that deals high magic damage to the MT.

2. AST is brokenly OP so of course a lot of healers are using it. It has nice aesthetics, but a raiding party is strongest with SCH+AST right now. Also cards.

---

Except the trend of "Best job = most played" isn't followed when it comes to AST and MCH. You say AST is "brokenly OP" and yet it's still the least played healer. And MCH is likewise the least played DPS job, despite the fact it's capable of doing more damage than BRD, yet there is twice the number of BRD's than MCH. DRK is more complex than PLD from a mechanics/rotation perspective and yet it's the most played tank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FallenWings

Man, what a great tanking weapon axe is amirite? With it's inferior speed and maneuverability over a sword as well!
It can't possibly be a DPS weapon with it's sheer impact power over any other weapon class save for hammer right?

It's like tanks are completely incapable of doing any "hard hits" or "powerful strikes". All they seem to do is just stand there and hold their weapons up to perpetually block or parry.

It's not like tanks, especially in this game, are quite possibly the most badass role.

It's not like they're the guys literally in the front doing mortal combat with several giant dragons, pagan gods and time-travelling fortresses; shrugging off giant sky piercing death-beams and returning the pain with powerful cleaves/eating souls/unleashing their spirits from inside(I tried).

Oh but clearly, Samurai, the eastern warrior that thrives in honour and practices the art of war as their craft are more fitting as the role that strikes from the rear and falls flat on their face as soon as anything threatening so much as breathes in their direction. Who would've known?

---

I love how you just sideways called all DPSes and Healers cowards for being forced to play within the game's designs. Like...really, that is what your post is doing, you just called everyone who isn't a tank, a coward and dishonorable. It's also funny how other tanks are just showering you with praise for this post when you should be getting called out by everyone. It's rather disgusting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StarRosie

I love how you just sideways called all DPSes and Healers cowards for being forced to play within the game's designs. Like...really, that is what your post is doing, you just called everyone who isn't a tank, a coward and dishonorable. It's also funny how other tanks are just showering you with praise for this post when you should be getting called out by everyone. It's rather disgusting.

---

This. Is healers should be given credit, since we are helping with doing damage, as well as keeping you tanks alive. Without us, you would be dead in those fights against dragons, gods and fortresses. We decided whether you live or die.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StarRosie

I love how you just sideways called all DPSes and Healers cowards for being forced to play within the game's designs. Like...really, that is what your post is doing, you just called everyone who isn't a tank, a coward and dishonorable. It's also funny how other tanks are just showering you with praise for this post when you should be getting called out by everyone. It's rather disgusting.

---

Whew, that's a bit of a reach to try and get offended. Their point is valid in that DPS roles stand either from afar or attack from behind. They never said anything about the actual people playing them, eesh. If you're looking at a role that's appears the most heroic, it's clearly the tank role, they face the enemies head on, and suffer/sacrifice themselves for the reast of the party. Samurai are steeped with fantasies about honor and servitude which is befitting for a role as a tank. Most people would consider it a rather dishonorable thing to attack an enemy from behind while they're otherwise preoccupied fighting someone else.

Again though, they never insinuated DPS players were cowards, that's on you if you're gonna go through the mental gymnastics to come to that conclusion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LadyKairi

This. Is healers should be given credit, since we are helping with doing damage, as well as keeping you tanks alive. Without us, you would be dead in those fights against dragons, gods and fortresses. We decided whether you live or die.

---

Tanks and healers have a symbiotic relationship. Without Healers, tanks would eventually die to the damage, but without tanks, healers would become red smears on the ground. So while healers may decide whether people live or die, without the tank everyone would die.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LadyKairi

This. Is healers should be given credit, since we are helping with doing damage, as well as keeping you tanks alive. Without us, you would be dead in those fights against dragons, gods and fortresses. We decided whether you live or die.

---

Everyone thinks their job is most important lol. No one should be "given credit" in an MMO where all roles are needed and equally important.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shippuu

snip

---

I'm sorry, I wholly disagree. I understand their overall point, get that perfectly fine, and there is some merit to it. And yeah, I'm probably taking it a little personally, but there is absolutely a sideways insult towards non-tank players in there.

Quote:

---

Oh but clearly, Samurai, the eastern warrior that thrives in honour and practices the art of war as their craft are more fitting as the role that strikes from the rear and falls flat on their face as soon as anything threatening so much as breathes in their direction.

---

You honestly don't see that as calling DPS and Healers dishonorable and cowards for doing what our roles are built to do? Cause if not, then I'm not the one doing mental gymnastics. But no, how about I just sit there and take the hit, or strike from the front and take all those tankbusters and cleaves! Yup, mhm, now I'm an honorable Monk right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StarRosie

I'm sorry, I wholly disagree. I understand their overall point, get that perfectly fine, and there is some merit to it. And yeah, I'm probably taking it a little personally, but there is absolutely a sideways insult towards non-tank players in there.



You honestly don't see that as calling DPS and Healers dishonorable and cowards for doing what our roles are built to do? Cause if not, then I'm not the one doing mental gymnastics. But no, how about I just sit there and take the hit, or strike from the front and take all those tankbusters and cleaves! Yup, mhm, now I'm an honorable Monk right?

---

I mean, sure?

All I'm really doing is romanticizing a role that people often assume is just a meatwall, and showing them what they really are. The vanguards. The hero. The frontline fighters.

By the definition of those words, you don't respect 'cheap blows' or people who choose to fight someone who is severely disadvantaged do you?

The DPS role is filled with those that strike from advantageous points or range. They avoid direct confrontation or damage.

I'm merely stating a truth of the matter. The ninja(or archer) which is probably the greatest representative of an agility fantasy, is never seen going to be "taking blows" or "fighting head on" because it's frankly not and has hardly ever been their thing. They're master assassins which deal powerful blows on your weak spots without you even knowing. Their armor choice, weapon choice, heck their whole principle of fighting is that.

At the same time, that's the appeal of the ninja.

They're not Knights. And knights are not ninjas.

So yes, they're simply not prepared or equipped to take a death-beam to the face. That's not what they're here to do. They're here to work with their Knight ally, to defeat the dragon/god/mecha by utilizing the openings their friend is making and dealing deadly damage where their allies couldn't.

So tell me, do you think Samurai(the armored variant that we know and love, not the cloth wearing ronin) is a knight or a ninja?

If it were up to me, I'd frankly have War, Drk, Pld, Drg, Mnk, and Sam all have a Tank AND a DPS option. Because these are the guys that are thematically equipped and skilled to be either role.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FallenWings

I mean, sure?

All I'm really doing is romanticizing a role that people often assume is just a meatwall, and showing them what they really are. The vanguards. The hero. The frontline fighters.

By the definition of those words, you don't respect 'cheap blows' or people who choose to fight someone who is severely disadvantaged do you?

The DPS role is filled with those that strike from advantageous points or range. They avoid direct confrontation or damage.

I'm merely stating a truth of the matter. The ninja(or archer) which is probably the greatest representative of an agility fantasy, is never seen going to be "taking blows" or "fighting head on" because it's frankly not and has hardly ever been their thing. They're master assassins which deal powerful blows on your weak spots without you even knowing. Their armor choice, weapon choice, heck their whole principle of fighting is that.

At the same time, that's the appeal of the ninja.

They're not Knights. And knights are not ninjas.

So yes, they're simply not prepared or equipped to take a death-beam to the face. That's not what they're here to do. They're here to work with their Knight ally, to defeat the dragon/god/mecha by utilizing the openings their friend is making and dealing deadly damage where their allies couldn't.

So tell me, do you think Samurai(the armored variant that we know and love, not the cloth wearing ronin) is a knight or a ninja?

If it were up to me, I'd frankly have War, Drk, Pld, Drg, Mnk, and Sam all have a Tank AND a DPS option. Because these are the guys that are thematically equipped and skilled to be either role.

---

I understand that, really I do. I get that you are romanticizing your role because you feel unappreciated (Even though I don't see that. I show many tanks appreciation when I can.) and some treat you like mere meatshields. But I don't agree that tanks alone are 'the hero'. They are one of the heroes.

To answer your ultimate question at the end. Neither and both. Not all Samurai held the same code of honor, to some striking from behind was dishonorable yes, but to others it was smart tactics. This is a very fine line though, it is all a matter of personal honor really.

One issue is also the fact you are making this argument, solely in the context of duties or trials. What about solo content? I never had a knight to hold the Aggro of all the enemies I was fighting during my monk quests, it was just me vs H'raha Tia, face to face, fist to fist. Nor did I have someone to protect me from facing certain story quests. Within the context of duties, yeah, we monks have to strike from the rear or sides but outside of that? We are fighting face to face just as much as a tank.

The other issue is using Ninjas as a comparison, because there are stories and dramatizations of Ninjas as being honorable warriors in their own right, while other stories paint them as dishonorable or slimy. It's all eye of the beholder level stuff.

So when you ask do I think Samurai would be 'honorable' and fight face to face or 'dishonorable' and strike from behind, I say both yet neither. Because it is not up to me, I cannot judge your honor and you cannot judge mine, the only one who can judge ones honor is oneself.

Also to end this, I am sorry, I overreacted a little, I still think that was an unnecessary jab but, I apologize for overreacting and getting mildly heated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

The only way I see them making Samurai a tank is if that becomes their solution to Warrior basically being mandatory for raiding. In that sense, it would be PLD vs. DRK and WAR vs. SAM for whoever you bring. Can't say how exactly I feel about that idea since it doesn't solve the problem so much as just introduces another overpowered job to "balance" it.

---

This. So very much this. SAM as a tank is not a bad thing. A counter attack/third eye tank with tp buff abilities could directly counter WARs place in the meta, as the OT. Because let's face it, this game has never come close to early WoW when it comes to multi-tank encounter design. It is either routine damage splitting, forced tank swapping or adds. We haven't seen any real gifts that require 2 tanks for more than a small portion of the fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StarRosie

You honestly don't see that as calling DPS and Healers dishonorable and cowards for doing what our roles are built to do?

---

As a DPSer myself, I feel that's reaching. I see no problem anything that's been said, and I'm honestly confused about just where the 'insult' is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

As a DPSer myself, I feel that's reaching. I see no problem anything that's been said, and I'm honestly confused about just where the 'insult' is.

---

It's nothing. I overreacted and such, some things spilled over into this and just...yeah. So don't worry about it.

The point being made of SAM being honourable warriors is kind of amusing when you consider that historical samurai used to murder travelling peasants to test their equipment. Just a funny thing I noted. ;P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Konungarike

The point being made of SAM being honourable warriors is kind of amusing when you consider that historical samurai used to murder travelling peasants to test their equipment. Just a funny thing I noted. ;P

---

Pretty much the same thing with knights.
They have been romanticized as protectors so much when in truth most of them were just thugs with armor. xD

I think the idea of "Honorable Samurai" is being a bit stretched here. Think about it. Really think about it. Do you believe that anyone; ANYONE, in the thick of battle (not a one on one, but actual battle) is standing around after killing an enemy combatant and just waiting for their next target to make eye contact? I can't imagine any Samurai doing that and living past that battle.