I don't see the grand picture. Help me understand.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

@DocMog

I can't sight it, but I recall Yoshi-P saying something about materials droping off bosses in raids which would be used by crafters to make rare gear. (incentive to raid)

The omission of enfeebling spells obviously will be reworked into a new mage job. Yoshi already said the lack of caster types will be addressed by one of the first new jobs being a mage. How do you make that mage unique? Make them the enfeebler.

Self-combos might not be a great for party play, but it opens the door to implement group combos down the road. Yoshi already expressed interest in doing that.

I agree the lack of a water based attack spell is weird for a FF game. That it breaks the elemental wheel. Maybe you're being to rooted in what you think XIV should be. I can guarantee you it's not an oversight by the devs. Just because they haven't spelled it out for us doesn't mean they don't have a plan.

Speaking of plans. Is it better keep giving us info on future plans (like the FFXIV ver. 2.0) so we can play that /wait game? Or is it better to give us info on things to be implemented in the near future like "next update"? So maybe "skill chains" are 3-6 months out. Should they let us know now, so we can bitch and complain for the next 6 months? What if that system needs more time to develop? What if the system just dones't work out? I'd rather know about stuff to be issued in the next update, thats 100% going to make it in.

If you want the big picture heres a link:
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...ser/index.html

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Thank you!

A serious answer.

It's nearly impossible to coordinate chains with a group of 8, and battle speed of XIV and how frequently each front line class will launch off a WS

Can't really see a reason to complain, if you focus you can create greater damage by yourself.

As far as the issues brought up by OP, the only one direction i can't really accept is crafted armor being on par with dungeon drops. No matter how it's explained, i don't like it personally but i'll deal with it and hope they reconsider

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

I dont think:

because if innovation was what people wanted, FFXIV wouldn't be where it is now. FFXIV started "too far outside normal MMO's rules" and for that, its paid dearly.

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I don't know about you but I'm pretty sure the huge numbers of people who quit right after launch didn't do so because they thought "I can't take all this innovation". Crippling lag in all menus, terrible UI, stats that mean almost nothing, ridiculously poor design in basic game tools like party search and markets... The game wasn't rejected because it was too far outside the way other MMOs work but because it was a half-baked unplayable mess.

Innovation just for the sake of being different is bad but a game that doesn't come up with original ideas or combine existing ideas in new and interesting ways won't have a player base. Looking at how the game has changed over time with any objectivity nobody could say there have been no mistakes and there obviously will be some in the future but so far the master plan has managed to transform a pool of toxic sludge into something almost legitimately enjoyable, they might go off the rails at some point for now and until proven otherwise, I'll trust that they actually have a pretty good idea of where they need to go. Of course some prefer to react like our friend friend Kiote who has seen the future and knows that 1.20 will bring the rapture and the end of days.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

The "like it or gtfo" mentality will get you nowhere. So, thanks for that.

Rather than make coherent arguments to support your opinion, you resort to this?

Childish really.

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Except I'm not telling you to get out. I'm just giving you some advice. The changes are going to happen. If you're not willing to first give the changes a try before complaining about them, then you're going to be very frustrated for a long time with this game.

I've given coherent arguments. If anything you haven't given me anything other than saying the same things over and over again or talking about different points than the ones I've made. So please don't resort to an ad hominem by calling me childish.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

I need some help community, where is this game going?

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A few questions:

Do you feel that the additions in each patch resulted in a net positive change for the game (gameplay, content, entertainment, fun, etc)?

Do you feel that any of the changes that you were preemptively concerned about turned out to be not that bad? (for example, you were very much against the removal of the stamina bar. Do you still think that it has resulted in a net negative effect for the game now that you have played the game without a stamina bar?)

Is the outline of the relationship between DoW/DoL/DoH he elaborated on in this post:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...683#post439683

something you agree or disagree with?

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

How do you make that mage unique? Make them the enfeebler.

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This was just an idle thought I was having on the uniqueness of classes/jobs. With the new breakdown, CNJ/WHM will fill the healer role, THM/BLM will be the nuker and a potential third job (ACN/RDM?) could be an enfeebler.

What other potential unique mage roles are there? Buffer? Summoner?

See, I could reply to each of the questions, but my answer might change after 1.20. I can't say, Largely because I don't know what's going to change tomorrow, for the better or worse. Ill try to answer though for how things are currently.

Do I believe that the additions in each patch resulted in a net positive? Gameplay, content, entertainment etc..
Yes, but not because of the improvement to any system in particular. Any content, even in the old system, would still be entertaining and fun. Simply because it is new content if for no other reason. So the new systems have no influence on my perception of how fun the game is. (with the exception of removing the random SP per kill SP system which was just stupid.) The old system had its flaws, but I still believe it could have been "fixed" instead of overhauled. Right now things are just "different". Old systems or new, the new content in either situation would have "fun and entertaining" because the old system would have had a years worth of development and fixes alongside content.

Do I feel that any of the changes I was preemptively concerned about turned out to be "not that bad"
Yes, they did turn out to be adequate. But I see the time spent on the new systems to be a "side move" I still don't see this game a "substantially better" than it was previously. It still has many flaws, just "different" flaws. For instance, where crafting has become less of a clusterfuk, battle classes and powerleveling is a joke. There is no reward for getting battle jobs to 50 anymore. We took Premium Virtue from fresh made character, to level 50 PUG in less than 24 hours. How is this acceptable? I am not "butthurt" btw about others being able to do this, I am upset that there is no reward for playing this game, and powerleveling at this extent diminishes the reward of playing this game.

Is the outline of the relationship between DoW/DoL/DoH he elaborated on in this post:

Yes. It should have been that way from the start.

I do not think the game was perfect before, but I do think that remaking this game twice is VERY ballsy. They are doing this game over again from scratch rather than following a guideline set by previous MMO's or even fixing their original system with input from the community. I could be wrong, but personally, I fix my cars when they break instead of buying new ones every time I get a flat.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

because if innovation was what people wanted, FFXIV wouldn't be where it is now. FFXIV started "too far outside normal MMO's rules" and for that, its paid dearly.

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Honestly I think it had more to do with there being absolutely nothing to do in the game (and really there still isn't). People probably would have been more forgiving of the mechanics back then if there was actually something to do other than grind.

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Originally Posted by Madruk

Honestly I think it had more to do with there being absolutely nothing to do in the game (and really there still isn't). People probably would have been more forgiving of the mechanics back then if there was actually something to do other than grind.

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Also a good point.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

Speaking of plans. Is it better keep giving us info on future plans (like the FFXIV ver. 2.0) so we can play that /wait game? Or is it better to give us info on things to be implemented in the near future like "next update"? So maybe "skill chains" are 3-6 months out. Should they let us know now, so we can bitch and complain for the next 6 months? What if that system needs more time to develop? What if the system just dones't work out? I'd rather know about stuff to be issued in the next update, thats 100% going to make it in.

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We're essentially playing that wait game whether they give us info or not. What we're experiencing is the gradual changes to herald the coming of 2.0. Most everything we do in the game right now will be obsolete by next year so if you came back after a 10 month break you wouldn't miss out on much.

THM Mag. 3 O Deals ice damage to target. Chance to inflict Heavy.
THM Mag. 4 O Self AoE Deals ice damage to all enemies within range. Chance to inflict Bind.

I can tell you where it's going; it copying wow. if you've never play wow thm mag 3 is frost bolt and thm magic 4 is frost nova staples of the mage class. They also specialize in fire and ice spells.

I have a question about the revised actions and traits. Will they completely replace the current actions and traits we have?

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Originally Posted by Griss

When seeking guidance on the direction you are heading, its best not to ask the horses pulling the cart. Most of the time there trying to pull it in multiple directions.

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New deity (Found it!)

Just wanted to point out the wisdom in these words. Aside from spelling mistakes, of course. ;)

I have to say I'm in the same boat. First they say they want to give classes their own identity and find the ff feel. Then they divide the elemental magic between both/all magic classes 50/50 and refuse to make them resemble whm blm jobs in their pre job state. What is it SE that you're doing?! You say you want to put the focus away from the leves (yay!) but then as a replacement you include "quests" that are carbon copies of them? Which is it? You can't have it both ways without losing quality accross the board.

I like Mogs post. It's like a game of chess, what's your move SE?

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Originally Posted by Seif

I have to say I'm in the same boat. First they say they want to give classes their own identity and find the ff feel. Then they divide the elemental magic between both/all magic classes 50/50 and refuse to make them resemble whm blm jobs in their pre job state. What is it SE that you're doing?! You say you want to put the focus away from the leves (yay!) but then as a replacement you include "quests" that are carbon copies of them? Which is it? You can't have it both ways without losing quality accross the board.

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this is what ive been saying the whole time.

how is it a more defined role if CNJ/WHM can nuke, buff and heal? and with so little spells THM/BLM is hardly a glass cannon/mage DD at all.

I think the vision is pretty simple. The foundation of the ability system in this game is completely rotten. A new foundation is needed, and they have chosen a simple foundation upon which to build. We don't need 25-40 skills per class to have interesting combat. What we need is fewer, more useful skills that can be used together in solo and party situations. I look at the ability list and I see most of what is good about the current system with less trash.

Here lies a bit o' speculation Debuffs are gone, not because the devs don't think they're important, but because we want our job system now (and they want it now. It needs to have some time in the wild before 2.0 is released). THM was going to necessarily lose the debuffs before the job system came out. The next class will almost certainly be the debuff class, but it's not ready yet. I think the Devs made the decision to implement class changes and the job system sooner rather than later, then fill that debuffing gap when the new class is ready.

I see a vision. It hasn't so much been announced, but I think that if you use a little imagination and read a little between the lines it starts to become clear. But hell, this is just me, and I have been wrong many, many times.

Edit: Spacing

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

this is what ive been saying the whole time.

how is it a more defined role if CNJ/WHM can nuke, buff and heal? and with so little spells THM/BLM is hardly a glass cannon/mage DD at all.

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I don't know how THM/BLM will work out. I do know that in the past FF games BLM hasn't had access to all the elements, so it's not that much a stretch for that to be the case in this game. In regards to CNJ/WHM, I think it's an interesting twist. Looking over the new abilities, I wouldn't be surprised that in a party with a PLD and a BRD a whm might not have to spend all his time healing. Giving a WHM some offensive ability will allow it some flexibility to give some burst damage here and there. They also have stated that some stats will be able to be moved around, so in this case maybe a person can make their whm a capable offensive mage along with healing. Is that a bad thing? If anything I feel like that's giving it more of the CNJ ethos.

It's written in it's description: "Conjurers are a casting class known for their specialization in healing and defense-enhancing magic. They also possess some skill with elemental magic, granting them a degree of offensive ability, and can put single targets to sleep, providing a valuable source of control. White mages are powerful casters whose talents enable them to fully restore the HP of all party members in a mere instant. Beyond healing, they can also apply their MP towards attack magic, granting them extremely powerful offensive abilities."

If you look over the class adjustments, it seems like the developers thought long and hard about how to solidify each class while also having them compliment each other. But idk maybe I'm alone.

I was praying to use spells like barfire and reflect. You would time them so you don't get destroyed by aoe's.

i think SE is overworked, for every mistake they fix they are making another 3. sounds like they plan on rewrapping the spells maybe later in a new class or a cap raise, either way i don't like it. a year b4 needed to debuff? long time. i can only assume 2.0 will have them again and they better make them very important, they were my favorite parts of mage classes.

There are no "Bar" spells, no "En" spells, no "Ga" spells (curaga I guess.)
Classes that should clearly have skills associated with them (like posted above) do not,
We are getting drake and gobbue mounts before colored chocobos..

What's going on SE?

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Originally Posted by Issac

New deity (Found it!)

Just wanted to point out the wisdom in these words. Aside from spelling mistakes, of course. ;)

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Spelling and punctuation my arch nemesis has foiled me again.

I have to admit even I'm a little skeptical of the removal of pretty much all DoT's and Enfeeb spells. I'm not even primarily a mage and when I read it my jaw dropped. I get that they -might- be saving it for a new class for the future, but honestly I don't want to hang on the fence waiting on a "maybe". Enfeeble spells have been a stable in the FF series since..well, pretty much ever. And now they are removing them until -after- 2.0? I agree, I'm not seeing where they are going here.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

There are no "Bar" spells, no "En" spells, no "Ga" spells (curaga I guess.)
Classes that should clearly have skills associated with them (like posted above) do not,
We are getting drake and gobbue mounts before colored chocobos..

More confusion on what SE is doing.

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again the ridiculous mounts are another wow rip, don't know if you read my post on the page before this.

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Originally Posted by Anon

again the ridiculous mounts are another wow rip, don't know if you read my post on the page before this.

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WoW rip? FF mobs as mounts is a WoW rip? not sure is srs

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

WoW rip? FF mobs as mounts is a WoW rip? not sure is srs

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In wow you can ride creatures found in the wilds of azeroth... oh look we can ride things found in the wilds of hy..what ever it's called or eorza.

Don't really care who they ripped.

Why THOSE before colored chocobos?

uh? troll mode much? to appeal to the fan base they want to steal (wow players) not the ones they already have? (ff fan boys)

Ya'll seem to forget the mob mounts are a POSSIBLE reward for playing through the 7th umbral era.

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Originally Posted by Anon

uh? troll mode much? to appeal to the fan base they want to steal (wow players) not the ones they already have? (ff fan boys)

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Shouldn't they work on bringing back or retaining their current fanbase before trying to steal/persuade/get another?

Idk. Just my opinion on it.

Well here I thought this thread was about spells. Got a little side tracked with mounts but I don't really care if I don't like them i just wont use them but spells on the other hand are being forced upon me and they look like they suck or are plain ripoffs from non ff games..

This game is moving past unbalanced mess of a "game" (past FF's) towards a real game with balanced and actually difficult content requiring gaming skill beyond knowing what mobs to grind to outlevel the boss X.

That's where this game is moving.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

This game is moving past unbalanced mess of a "game" (past FF's) towards a real game with balanced and actually difficult content requiring gaming skill beyond knowing what mobs to grind to outlevel the boss X.

That's where this game is moving.

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I never thought I'd say this but...Betel I a...ag...ree. I AGREE

Well if we're on the topic of colored chocobo's, I'd like to say I'd enjoy the style of breeding FF7 had where it's tiered.

Where 2 Yellow choco's can make a blue or green, and then a variation of those can make a black choco, and then mixing a black choco with a well tamed yellow can make a gold chocobo. It'd be nice to see people who've put a lot of work into it running around with crazy awesome gold chocobos :O

Breeding is coming in a few patches, lets hope its like that.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

No need for bosses if crafted gear is better than boss gear.

/Craft best gear.
/Sit in town with best gear on.

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If you've got the skillz to get rich or die tryin', sure.

It's a competition bud. You are only rich relative to everyone else.

Also not everyone wants to go through the crafting process to get cool shiznits (shocking revelation). Plus the boss gear looks cooler.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

If you've got the skillz to get rich or die tryin', sure.

It's a competition bud. You are only rich relative to everyone else.

Also not everyone wants to go through the crafting process to get cool shiznits (shocking revelation). Plus the boss gear looks cooler.

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Nah man, it was sarcasm.

I agree with you fully.

Oh, and what about Barcher?

/mind blown

Where did that come from? lol

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Originally Posted by Sole

I don't know how THM/BLM will work out. I do know that in the past FF games BLM hasn't had access to all the elements, so it's not that much a stretch for that to be the case in this game. In regards to CNJ/WHM, I think it's an interesting twist. Looking over the new abilities, I wouldn't be surprised that in a party with a PLD and a BRD a whm might not have to spend all his time healing. Giving a WHM some offensive ability will allow it some flexibility to give some burst damage here and there. They also have stated that some stats will be able to be moved around, so in this case maybe a person can make their whm a capable offensive mage along with healing. Is that a bad thing? If anything I feel like that's giving it more of the CNJ ethos.

It's written in it's description: "Conjurers are a casting class known for their specialization in healing and defense-enhancing magic. They also possess some skill with elemental magic, granting them a degree of offensive ability, and can put single targets to sleep, providing a valuable source of control. White mages are powerful casters whose talents enable them to fully restore the HP of all party members in a mere instant. Beyond healing, they can also apply their MP towards attack magic, granting them extremely powerful offensive abilities."

If you look over the class adjustments, it seems like the developers thought long and hard about how to solidify each class while also having them compliment each other. But idk maybe I'm alone.

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i suppose it goes into taste.
you essentially repeated what i just said, CNJ/WHM is a "jack of all trades" which is then by definition not a defined role.

I dont want Whitemages nuking in my party, i want them healing and buffing. if they want to nuke, then they can cross class spells or play solo. WHICH IS EXACTLY what some others are telling us THM/BLMs to do and for us to stop crying about it.

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Originally Posted by Kailok

Well if we're on the topic of colored chocobo's, I'd like to say I'd enjoy the style of breeding FF7 had where it's tiered.

Where 2 Yellow choco's can make a blue or green, and then a variation of those can make a black choco, and then mixing a black choco with a well tamed yellow can make a gold chocobo. It'd be nice to see people who've put a lot of work into it running around with crazy awesome gold chocobos :O

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Yes, I hope it has traits that carry on following Mendelian inheritance. Would make for an interesting project.

Elaborated in here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Want-Your-Fix