does any other tank here like making healers work hard?

Why not DPS on Healer? Honestly after healing Expert I don't know why you wouldn't DPS. Just standing there waiting for the tank to lose a bit of HP is just silly. If the enemies hit harder then sure stick on healing but they hit like pillows :/

I think you may need to do Hall of the Novice because even they say if everything is fine tank/dps full hp and most adds almost dead don't be afraid to throw out some damaging spells.

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Originally Posted by Remus

Why not DPS on Healer? Honestly after healing Expert I don't know why you wouldn't DPS. Just standing there waiting for the tank to lose a bit of HP is just silly. If the enemies hit harder then sure stick on healing but they hit like pillows :/

I think you may need to do Hall of the Novice because even they say if everything is fine tank/dps full hp and most adds almost dead don't be afraid to throw out some damaging spells.

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This is how I've always felt about it as well. I think a lot of it has to do with many healers don't realize how much their DPS contributes especially their AoE spells. If you can shed 20 seconds or so off each pull by just throwing out a few AoE's that can add up to several minutes saved in the run.

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Originally Posted by seraf

This is how I've always felt about it as well. I think a lot of it has to do with many healers don't realize how much their DPS contributes especially their AoE spells. If you can shed 20 seconds or so off each pull by just throwing out a few AoE's that can add up to several minutes saved in the run.

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Added DPS can also do things like helping Melee with TP Issues. Instead of letting them floor their TP and swap to single target, you help DPS and the mobs die before it gets to that point.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

How would one even make a healer "work hard"?

If there's a lot of incoming damage on the tank, healers just spam cure/benefic II, maybe with a regen or cooldown in between. If that counts as "hard work", every melee DPS that spams their first spell, keeps up "one" DoT and throws a cooldown every now and again is "working hard" as well >_>

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How? The same way you make a car work harder by pushing on the accelerator while climbing a hill. You don't notice. All you're doing is hitting the gas, but that engine that pushes those 2 tons of steel and fiberglass on an incline would tell you different if it could.

Just because a healer is spamming physick/cure doesn't mean they are not working hard. If they have to use every gcd on cures, it means the tank is taking a shit load of damage, and it means they have to 'work harder' to keep them up. A healer isn't working hard when they have to DPS. They DPS when there is nothing else to do. Do you even play this role, or are you just someone who pushes the gas?

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Originally Posted by Zojha

How would one even make a healer "work hard"?

If there's a lot of incoming damage on the tank, healers just spam cure/benefic II, maybe with a regen or cooldown in between. If that counts as "hard work", every melee DPS that spams their first spell, keeps up "one" DoT and throws a cooldown every now and again is "working hard" as well >_>

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Unless you're talking about doing stuff overgeared/overleveled which does not require anything but spank things until they drop dead, I can tell you as a WHM, than when the team is barely equipped about Ilvl requirement for the dungeon, than when the tank has just pulled a giant pack of monsters and is flirting with death every seconds that spamming Cure I does not work but I have to use all these skills:

- Regen
- Presence of Mind
- Divine Seal
- Cure I
- Cure II

Eventually:
- Shroud of Saints
- Benediction
- Swiftcast
- Medica II

Optionally if there is melee DPS that are eating damage around as the same time as the tank:
-Cure III
-Medica

And if there is hard debuff mechanics or Warrior pacified you can add Esuna to the list.

(I've purposely only included ARR Actions from level 1 - 50)

If the healer is not going to dps and help make the run faster I'll give them something to do

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Originally Posted by Zojha

How would one even make a healer "work hard"? -snip-

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Well, no, we end up using 4-5 different spells or more, with varying order of use and with specific timing if we don't want to waste mp.
When you dps as a healer it's "leisurely"; but when you heal a tense situation, to me at least, it means the tank's hp is getting to under half within 2-3 seconds. If you mess up one skill it might kill the tank. I've healed tanks before where I was spamming the skills you mentioned and either their health was steadily going down or I was seeing my mana getting dangerously low with no escape in sight. (more of a dps problem/cds not being used problem I guess) On average though it's not hard healing if your gear is good.
So yeah it's more like if your dps would wipe your raid by not doing the optimal rotation, or not using instant skills while being forced to move.

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Originally Posted by Lone-wolfe-02

Don't think even big pulls can truly make a healer work hard not in these dungeons.

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This. Even when a tank pulls everything possible I still just use a lustrate or two with maybe an adlo and just go back to dpsing.

I normally just Holy before the tank gets hurt. Easy life.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

If the healer's not DDing, s/he has extra time to throw out the one or two extra heals that the tank will need without a tank stance on.

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I'm referring to the fact the hate can be stripped away from the tank that's being stubborn over a healing not dpsing.

As long as you're using cooldowns to mitigate damage properly then go for it. I get a kick out of the times I can out DPS the DPS as a healer. Those AoEs are awesome.

Good tanks will be stance dancing and causing minimal impact to the healer while doing so anyway.

I can't remember the last time I tanked a boss in an Expert in Shield Oath/Grit/Defiance and my healers are still able to go ham on DPS if they really wanted to (and should be!).

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Originally Posted by Gemina

-Tears-

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Never wiped because a lack of healing. The dungeons are easy enough for a SCH to don't cast a single heal, but that depends of the tank and the number of mobs pulled, of course. And we aren't talking about Savage, I hope you know that.

No need to be that salty for a silly joke.

So Im wondering if a gear is a factor here lets say your a healer wit 150 or below gear, should tanks expect u to heal like a healer that has 230 plus gear , sometimes people do use the dungeons for leveling not just for tomes.

As someone who mains PLD, but also plays everything else including all the healers, I will say that whether or not anyone has to work hard depends entirely on how the group approaches the dungeon and how much work each player is willing to do. If the approach is tailored to the gear that everyone has in terms of the pull size and everyone uses all of the tools at their disposals (mitigation CDs, damage CDs and healing CDs) then no one should every really have to work that hard.

It's when you have players who don't consider the under geared tank or healer, those who don't use their cooldowns, DPS that doesn't do positionals or straight up omits whole parts of their rotation where you need to put in extra work. Consider your party, do your part and things should be smooth. Ignore all of that then you should expect that someone is going to get the extra stress on their shoulders.

As a Healer,Tank, DPS player I find this to be a bit disrespectful of the players who have dedicated their time to learn healing. When you group up, you are supposed to be a team, not an individual, and when you make life hard for one class that will trickle down to the other players in the group which eventually causes wipes, toxic behavior, and a bad time for everyone. Then all that leads to is the blame game, Healer didn't heal enough, Tanks pulled to much..or the classic DPS isn't doing enough damage. I for one am grateful SE put in mechanics that can nip this kind of mentality in the bud on some instances. However I really don't see the point in going into a dungeon or raid with this kind of mentality. Had one 60 Hard mode where I was DPSing, and the tank was in such a rush that he didn't wait for the healer to catch up to the main boss fight. Thankfully I was able to heal somewhat as DPS so that we beat the boss.

I like it when tanks do big pulls, so long that they know what they're doing. I love to DPS as healer, my significant other plays a tank and he just does things so well that we become lawnmowers. The thing that would make me work hard as a healer is when the tank is actually a moron.

I dealt with a tank who didn't have Provoke in Sohr Khai and that was absolute hell since he kept taking on more than what he could handle. Aggro would go straight to me and he didn't mitigate damage properly and so on. I will be pretty vocal about a tank doing it wrong and certainly was right then. That is "working hard".

It's also dependent if the DPS are fast enough too. You can be a great healer and tank duo but if the DPS you're with suck- your mana/TP reserves won't last forever unless you have a BRD to sing.

I heal and tank as main myself and actually prefer that the tanks do big pulls and rarely ever have any issue keeping the tank or anyone else alive. On the flip side, I expect healers to be able to do the same when I tank. I've found that if the healer has a hard time keeping up it's usually because they're under geared and just can't push the needed potency to keep us alive.

You're creating an incredibly stressful situation without the input of your party. First thing you need to do is find out if the healer is comfortable with big pulls, not just pull big because you want to make them "work hard". It wastes everyone's time if the party has to find out the healer can't handle big pulls when everyone wipes.

This made me laugh because I had a WHM in my old FC that also has NIN, and she likes to go on NIN and intentionally fight tanks for mob aggro because "It keeps them on their toes! Someone's gotta make them work for it, or they get complacent." XD Sometimes I think she leveled a DPS just for this reason LOL.