The New Chat Restriction in The Feast

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

OP is from Balmung, which is Aether. As someone who is also an Aether healer, I can say that healing queues have slowed down significantly this past week, and melee are now getting instant queues. Also, due to how easy it is to climb this season, unranked/bronze players are having a longer wait time to find games since most anyone who cares is diamond/plat/gold by now.

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Ahhh I see, I had no idea Aether ques were so bad ....

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Originally Posted by Vejjiegirl

Ahhh I see, I had no idea Aether ques were so bad ....

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Well, they're not. Healer queues just simply are not instant anymore.

Even yesterday, on Thanksgiving, I did not wait more than 15 minutes for a queue. The most I have ever waited this season was 23 minutes. The queues now are typically in the 5-9 minute range for healers, and can still occasionally be instant during peak hours.

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

What? Your opinion was as follows

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I don't work for SE. I can approve this update as much as I want but it's not going to change the fact that it's unlikely to get implemented.

I'm obviously not referring to myself with you writing off other's thoughts. I'm usually not the type of person who likes to spend an unnecessary amount of time writing paragraphs on forums, so I just stated my approval of the update then saw your ridiculous contradiction. That's all.

Also, weren't you going on about something regarding not usually responding to people lioe me since I'm a troll who doesn't want to discuss the topic? Speaking pretty well for yourself here bud considering you quoted nothing relevant to my thoughts. Yet another sweet, sweet contradiction.

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Originally Posted by Bahati

There should be severe punishment for those who are harassing others, not a massive censorship for all PVP players. I would love nothing more than to see people banned from PVP indefinitely for the sort of unbelievable things they feel perfectly comfortable writing in party chat. You can't play respectfully, you can't play at all.

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Most toxic people do get banned (3 strikes and it is permanent) already. Sometimes for something minuscule they typed in chat... like "ur dumb". In many of these cases it's overboard.

If people are getting upset for a lack of heals in 8v8, they should help heal. I have done a bit of 8v8 and I have a high chance of being the only healer. When a lot of the better players are also queued up... and on the enemy team, it is not easy to solo heal. The better players usually do not flame as they know the odds were already stacked against them. Ignore the flaming, take the game in as it was given to you and try your best next time with that info.

If you have played a little 8v8 and Frontlines, queue up for 4v4. It's on average a lot better this season as a new player. You *should* be matched with people semi new.

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IMO, parsing through 'toxic' chat still has some useful information. "Why didn't you burst the WHM with me when I was LB'ing?" New players cannot learn much when they queue in with mutes. Yes the mode is simple, but even at the top end there are things people miss.

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Originally Posted by Sorazure

I don't work for SE. I can approve this update as much as I want but it's not going to change the fact that it's unlikely to get implemented.

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I'm not sure how it's even possible to think this way. Why would they show it off in the live letter and then not implement it? SE has never done that before. As for your assurance that they listen to the community and changes will be made...

It took them nearly 3 years to get rid of PvP's GC restrictions.

Three. Years.

Square could've just muted people who are too toxic, but that requires GM's and money to implement. Much much easier to just mute everybody, even though no PVP game ever has done such a thing, even extremely toxic games like League has never done a global mute haha.

This is just sad. I don't know if it's just the dev team being out of touch with pvp or if they are doing this to save money.

In my opinion it would be better to just do nothing. If people have really been getting that upset over chat in Feast they can literally turn it off themselves.

Very glad to hear about this. I try, but I'm not a very good PvP player and every match has resulted in at least one person screaming at me to the point of making me wonder why I'm bothering. As important as being able to communicate is, it doesn't work if people are constantly breaking the game rules and harassing other players. So to me this is a welcome change and might actually make it less stressful and more enjoyable for those of us that are on the receiving end of the hate.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

even extremely toxic games like League has never done a global mute

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They gave us the option and so every match I play starts with /mute all

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

They gave us the option and so every match I play starts with /mute all

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so its not like this thing at all, thx for confirming

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

Very glad to hear about this.

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This is an honest question, Scott. Most of us know who you are and why you even queued up for PvP this season in the first place. It's clear that once the announcement was made that the minion you wanted would be made available to everyone, you stopped playing The Feast.

Are you saying you would have kept playing (and losing almost every match) in an attempt to get better if your team wasn't always flaming you?

I don't think this is censorship any more than disallowing graffiti on buildings. They are just dropping a feature from their content because it wasn't working (people ruining it with frequent harassment). You will have the new macros to issue strategy commands to players on your team in a way that can't be used for harassment. I think this will make it much more enjoyable to a larger audience than just the thick-skinned community who currently plays a lot, because now you can just play without fear of abuse. If anything, it will make people better players because enjoying a mode means doing it more and getting practice. Harassment just made people quit. Actual constructive advice during matches was rare and you don't really have time to explain all the intricacies of the mode during a fight anyway. The no-chat rule will apply to both teams so it's not like anyone would be at a disadvantage. So I hope this adjustment is successful and they don't listen to the vocal minority here lol.

Hate to say this but I agree fully with this change...

Do I like it? Nope. I rely on chat a lot as a White Mage to let everyone know who I am sleeping, but it is very necessary to get new people with thin skin inside PvP without ruining the experience for them. All it takes is one person to ruin PvP.

I'll admit, I was toxic during season 1...and wish there was a barrier like this to prevent me from being that way due to risking my account with all of the work I've put into it achievement wise.

Maybe they will surprise us with this feature being efficient in callouts that we currently do already. I say wait before hating. Never know what they might dish out to us.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

The no-chat rule will apply to both teams so it's not like anyone would be at a disadvantage.

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The disadvantage will come in the form of job balance. There are several jobs (PLD WHM BLM) which require communication and cooperation with your team to succeed. Taking ability away from the players and putting it in SE's hands it scary, to say the least, because SE does not understand the game as well as their players do, and some core commands are sure to get missed.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

it will make people better players because enjoying a mode means doing it more and getting practice.

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I don't think this is a case. It's still not enjoyable to lose 90% of your matches because you're bad. The only difference here is that now nobody can tell you that you're bad...During a match.

I will literally unsub and quit this game if they do this. What a joke. Beyond what Stefan posted, the PvP crowd is a community. Communities talk to each other. Being muted and not even able to engage with that community is horrible, and it will feel like a solo game. No thank you.

How will I tell my 4 minute 10 stack tank to go kill himself on the other team? There is no way that macro will ever be implemented.

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Originally Posted by TiramisuMacaron

How will I tell my 4 minute 10 stack tank to go kill himself on the other team? There is no way that macro will ever be implemented.

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Suggesting your fellow team member should -die-?! Toxic!

On a serious note, that's an example of a specific call I expect will not make the cut, which is a really big shame considering there's maybe lik 5-6 tanks out there that actually know when to do that based off their own intuition.

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

My proposed alternative solution:

Keep this "feature" and only apply it to those that are to receive punishment for their toxicity. This way, there is justified punishment for those people, as the previous punishment (permanent bans) is extremely harsh given the context of the situation. The goal would then be for them to realize that communication is key to success, as they will have a difficult time playing in The Feast without being able to communicate with their team.

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Be it a lack of manpower or a unwillingness to police toxic people, the devs always seem to shy away from straight up suspending/banning arseholes. Back when people purposely threw Feast matches to get tomes, nothing was really done about it. I get that policing any one feature is a large task, but even if it took time, it would be much better to get rid of people who harass others not just silence everyone.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Be it a lack of manpower or a unwillingness to police toxic people, the devs always seem to shy away from straight up suspending/banning arseholes. Back when people purposely threw Feast matches to get tomes, nothing was really done about it. I get that policing any one feature is a large task, but even if it took time, it would be much better to get rid of people who harass others not just silence everyone.

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I can say with absolute certainty that toxicity has been and will continue to be policed harshly. It's the only thing they really do police in PvP, since cheaters/feeders/etc. are almost never dealt with.

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

I can say with absolute certainty that toxicity has been and will continue to be policed harshly. It's the only thing they really do police in PvP, since cheaters/feeders/etc. are almost never dealt with.

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That's good to know. Shame they don't go after feeders with the same vigor.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

Square could've just muted people who are too toxic, but that requires GM's and money to implement. Much much easier to just mute everybody, even though no PVP game ever has done such a thing, even extremely toxic games like League has never done a global mute haha.

This is just sad. I don't know if it's just the dev team being out of touch with pvp or if they are doing this to save money.

In my opinion it would be better to just do nothing. If people have really been getting that upset over chat in Feast they can literally turn it off themselves.

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I'd lean more towards out of touch. If I recall, they've admitted to not having a whole lot of experience with PvP. Considering a lot of their features go against what you see in WoW, Overwatch or LoL, they don't really seem to have a good grasp on how to motivate people who aren't usually as interested in PvP. The whole mount and minion thing only further hammered that point.

Chiming in to agree that this is a TERRIBLE idea. Yes there is toxicity in Feast but there is toxicity in any ranked PVP, regardless of what game you go to. That is something that should be handled by, as Stefan suggested, muting players who repeatedly abuse/harass their teammates. To make it even easier, add a report system available at the end of a match to report someone for using abusive language and investigate/mute based on the reports received. Would that report system itself be abused? Probably! But the "Report as RMT" system made a huge difference and there are GMs to investigate the reports (and a false report could count as a strike towards the submitter).


Now, without chat in Feast, communicating strategies will be difficult. Yes, SE will be providing us with premade macros to communicate with but will they cover the spectrum of the current macros? Will we be able to give new PVPers feedback with those premade macros? I would hope so but I also seriously doubt it will be enough. I've seen some really great communication macros beyond what is 'normally' used in PVP (e.g. specifying the tank/melee/healer/ranged to pick up medals vs a generic "Get medals!" macro, recast macros for Purify/Attunement, etc). And I honestly cannot see a way to give proper feedback to a new person without normal chat, as I seriously doubt SE will include an auto-translate that says "Tank should switch in to tank stance and avoid picking up medals once they hit 4 stacks."

from what i can tell you can still use auto translate options plus will get added pvp translations/command like actions (looked like maybe things along "focus this" that also might put an icon on the focus.) The idea to allow it at start is nice though, give ppl the opening to strategize. I would be more against this if FPS games didn't already use systems like this and those are pretty fast paced. Well have to see it in play however and i really hope they give a grace period before an actual season starts like with it implemented. (admittedly i don't pvp much in ff 14 but i would have loved this system in wow lol)

HAHAHAHA

oh god

HAHAHA

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

I can say with absolute certainty that toxicity has been and will continue to be policed harshly. It's the only thing they really do police in PvP, since cheaters/feeders/etc. are almost never dealt with.

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The amount of people getting reported must have been huge to implement this. I don't know how punishment is handled but it hasn't been enough to deter the general masses.The biggest thing for me, is this is probably the easiest fix. The option to disable individual players might have been more work. Disbaled chat and an icon of shame (like the new player leaf) seems more fitting to me.

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

Are you saying you would have kept playing (and losing almost every match) in an attempt to get better if your team wasn't always flaming you?

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Well yes... It's demoralising enough to lose, it's even worse when your own team throws non-stop insults at you.

No one deserves to be insulted/harassed, especially when the games own rules forbid it. I've never personally reported anyone in the feast for harassment, but that's mainly because the "paperwork" to do so is ludicrously long and I'd be there all day if I did that with every match (so naturally the people never get a warning about their conduct so keep on doing it...)

Silencing the chat stops the problem immediately.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

Silencing the chat stops the problem immediately.

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So you can relish in your ignorance.

What in the actual hell is going on here?!

How are we supposed to play in a party-coordinated game mode with objectives when we can't communicate with our team? I understand that they wanted to reduce the amount of toxicity in chat, but seriously?! This shoots several jobs in the foot and completely murders any sense of tactical play. It was hard enough to get Dps to coordinate with my stuns when I could use a maccro to count down the healer stun resist timer. How the heck am I supposed to trust them to burst a target down now that I can't even talk to them? Not to mention that this kind of change will only encourage maccro spamming of whatever pre-set options they come out with. Meanwhile, they still haven't addressed matchmaking, pre-seasons, qualifiers, or any number of other things that would prepare new players for ranked participation ... very impressive.

Seriously, it is nauseating that someone is actually getting paid to exercise this level of stupidity.

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Originally Posted by Animosite

So you can relish in your ignorance.

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I wish that wasn't the case, but my own experiences have demonstrated that other players don't really offer helpful suggestions and will either be silent or very aggresive. So as such there isn't really anything to relieve such ignorance (in game anyway) and if the only thing being spoken is negative, it might as well be blocked.

Of course that's not always the case and I have met a few kind individuals who took the time to offer some pointers after the game and I appreciate they would not be able to if muted, but these people are so few and far between...

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

So as such there isn't really anything to relieve such ignorance (in game anyway) and if the only thing being spoken is negative, it might as well be blocked.

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Why not just have a tab that has party chat hidden? You'll still see it afterwards if you check the party chat but at least its not going to be tilting you mid-match.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

Well yes... It's demoralising enough to lose, it's even worse when your own team throws non-stop insults at you.

No one deserves to be insulted/harassed, especially when the games own rules forbid it. I've never personally reported anyone in the feast for harassment, but that's mainly because the "paperwork" to do so is ludicrously long and I'd be there all day if I did that with every match (so naturally the people never get a warning about their conduct so keep on doing it...)

Silencing the chat stops the problem immediately.

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then grow up and disable your chat window in pvp instead demanding mute mandtory mute function


for f*** sake its like some people are 12 years old here and cant social interact with other human beings even through the internet

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

The amount of people getting reported must have been huge to implement this. I don't know how punishment is handled but it hasn't been enough to deter the general masses.The biggest thing for me, is this is probably the easiest fix. The option to disable individual players might have been more work. Disbaled chat and an icon of shame (like the new player leaf) seems more fitting to me.

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From what I can gather, its not even about "harassment reports" least not in a "we had so many we will do this" Apparently was more of the harassment reports making them go through chat logs and seeing it used for macro'd commands and toxicity... hence why i think it might still let you use macros and all auto translate. I could be wrong though :P

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Originally Posted by Kaitoo

for f*** sake its like some people are 12 years old here and cant social interact with other human beings even through the internet

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Well, if people could just remain civil and act like mature adults, SE wouldn't even have considered something like chat restriction in the first place. They did that because far too many people for their liking could not and they felt the amount of effort required to police these people disproportionate.

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Originally Posted by Gumbercules

hence why i think it might still let you use macros and all auto translate. I could be wrong though :P

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They most likely will not allow macros, because you could just write your nasties into those. At the very best, they'd allow full auto-translate macros, but that would require a check I doubt they'd program extra.

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Originally Posted by Kaitoo

then grow up and disable your chat window in pvp instead demanding mute mandtory mute function

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Hey this is nothing to do with me. I never suggested it, nor pushed for it. I'm just agreeing with it after SE already announced it.

I'm only posting in this thread so that other players (and SE) can see there are players who agree with this decision (and why). Not asking, or expecting, anyone to agree with my opinions, only stating what they are.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

I wish that wasn't the case, but my own experiences have demonstrated that other players don't really offer helpful suggestions and will either be silent or very aggresive. So as such there isn't really anything to relieve such ignorance (in game anyway) and if the only thing being spoken is negative, it might as well be blocked.

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Only that's not the case.

They might be part of the minority, but some players actually talk shop in PvP. Some have custom maccros which actually serve a purpose for the team. Some people do strategic call-outs. Some people offer constructive criticism. Even if what they say is harshly worded, there's a purpose to it. The first step to fixing problems is admitting you have one. Players who make mistakes will NEVER fix those mistakes if they are not told that they are making them. Sure, people don't have to be mean about it, but they also don't have to be blind and deaf.

It's not just an issue for harassment, either. Top-end players don't get high in the rankings by only using chat for negative comments. Burst coordination, CC coordination, healing and mitigation call outs, buff call outs, strategy, stack counts, priority targets and mana requests are all things that are regularly seen in chat. Throwing in a few place-holder maccros is not an adequate replacement for actual communication when there are this many things to consider, especially in solo-queue where parties are random.

Yea in soloq you really have to just look for burst indicators and stun when you see them. IR on monk, botd on drg, suiton on ninja, hawk eye on ranged, raging on caster. Advice I would give you in game if I could chat ;3

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Well, if people could just remain civil and act like mature adults, SE wouldn't even have considered something like chat restriction in the first place. They did that because far too many people for their liking could not and they felt the amount of effort required to police these people disproportionate.

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The effort of you disabling your own pvp chat is too big? And the mature thing here is to disable it for all people, even if they dont want it?

all righty then

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Originally Posted by Alysanne

Pot meet kettle.

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are you not the one who was talking about wine? go do that pls, you have no business in grown up stuff

Scott is entitled to his opinion, but he can turn chat off already if he doesn't want to listen to chat. It would be a hindrance to his team, but at least other people would be able to chat.

In WoW, people just went to extremes to harass people. They would create alts and send tells to the person after a match. This isn't stopping harassment, it is just crippling a community that already has it rough.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

Hey this is nothing to do with me. I never suggested it, nor pushed for it. I'm just agreeing with it after SE already announced it.

I'm only posting in this thread so that other players (and SE) can see there are players who agree with this decision (and why). Not asking, or expecting, anyone to agree with my opinions, only stating what they are.

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yeah i read your post, and they are implying that this is the best thing ever even if you could do this before for yourself

so you finding good that other players get robbed of free choice of communication even if you could do this long before

again: alrighty then

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Originally Posted by Kaitoo

are you not the one who was talking about wine? go do that pls, you have no business in grown up stuff

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The irony in someone arguing against this decision being the perfect example of why it should be implemented.

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Originally Posted by Kaitoo

And the mature thing here is to disable it for all people, even if they dont want it?

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No, the mature thing is to not rage in the first place, but rather take a step back, a deep breath and a break when you get angry. Which you should probably do right now because you are not being particularly mature.

Disabling chat is just the easy way out, that has nothing to do with maturity and all to do with cost/time efficiency.

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Originally Posted by Februs

some players actually talk shop in PvP

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For what it's worth, I thought you made some good points and I do see that blocking the chat will be genuine hindrance for some players. I also accept that my experiences probably give me an extremely skewed view of the overall picture.

Perhaps one day I'll see it from your side (although probably not if SE does block chat...)

Or people can just take the time to learn the game. SE does nothing to tell or force them to play at even a basic level. The vast majority of the, "negative comments" comes out from people not having a single clue about what they are in, doing, and/or their class.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

No, the mature thing is to not rage in the first place, but rather take a step back, a deep breath and a break when you get angry.

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Teen rated game. Everyone could be below 18 here.