PSA: Heal people when you raise someone

Well, despite YOU failing at the mechanics and dying, I'd gladly raise you. I need you to smack things for me. However in the time it takes covering up your failure, I have to make sure my number one minion, the tank, doesn't die because you forced me to shift my focus. So excuse me if it took a little time cleaning up your mess, I had other...and frankly more important priorities.

Welcome to the healer forums. =/

If I had to guess, OP was addressing a subset of healers that don't lurk here, and has instead stirred up the healers that already know this and have their priorities in order. So my advice: If you want heals, don't die. If you die, as others have pointed out, make the best out of your 60 seconds of Raise status to accept at time when healers have things in control. And, worst come to worst, pop potions/Second Wind.

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Originally Posted by Ninster

Welcome to the healer forums. =/

If I had to guess, OP was addressing a subset of healers that don't lurk here, and has instead stirred up the healers that already know this and have their priorities in order. So my advice: If you want heals, don't die. If you die, as others have pointed out, make the best out of your 60 seconds of Raise status to accept at time when healers have things in control. And, worst come to worst, pop potions/Second Wind.

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I think this point has been made, but this is a place where many new and inexperienced healers come looking for answers, and his following comments were encouraging the idea that it's always on the healer if you Rez and the person dies after not getting healed—so much so that he feels justified in calling them out. In addition to which he offered misinformation, again putting all responsibility on healers.

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Originally Posted by GeekMatt

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Yup, that. ^^ In my first comment I figured he was talking about some specific instance where the healer didn't notice, or something, but the following comments about what the responsibilities of a healer are were ridiculous, and needed correction for if anyone new came to read. There is no reason that the timing of a raise accept should be on the healer when the person accepting has a full minute window where they can't do anything else but watch the fight to accept it at the right time. The concept is so ridiculous it's hilarious. Do I need to make sure to have the time to type out instructions in the chatbox for you so you know when to accept since you have such a huge timeframe for it? No, as a healer I do not have to memorize mechanics for you. I'm not going to chastise anyone for messing up and dying again, because hey, we're human and not everyone has the game memorized. But no, it is not MY fault you clicked accept after 3 seconds instead of waiting anywhere from 10-50 seconds, and as a result died again.

After rereading the thread, I see where that discussion started and I agree it's the responsibility of whoever needs raising to come back to the fight at a sensible time. I recall during a rough A12 run where the tank had died to a General's Might and it then proceeded to smash my face in as well. The party had finished it off thankfully, and raises went out to both me and the tank. Of course I knew Divine Judgment was coming up so I waited until it was just fired to accept, so I'd be good to go before Alexander Prime came back.

I detested DPSing for a while: I remember the first time someone told me to do it and how utterly disgusted I was. Now I like to squeeze as much out as I can. I'd be sad if they moved DPS away from being a part of playing a Healer via removing Cleric Stance.

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Originally Posted by necroon

I detested DPSing for a while: I remember the first time someone told me to do it and how utterly disgusted I was. Now I like to squeeze as much out as I can. I'd be sad if they moved DPS away from being a part of playing a Healer via removing Cleric Stance.

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wrong thread fam.

Well, I'm not sure what context does the OP have, but while I CAN understand his PoV, I am pretty sure EVERY healer out there knows to do this.

But, the question is whether or not the healer knows how to access the situation of whether a tank buster / heavy aoe is incoming, vs what CDs they have available, etc etc.. in which case, I feel just raging at them not healing isn't the way to handle it. It's unfortunate that this isn't stated in Novice hall, but hey.. you can't expect them to spoonfeed every..single..possible..situation that goes on out there. That's why people say "practice makes perfect".

And of course there's the other point of accepting the raise at the correct time. This is slightly more straightforward and less forgivable since EVERYONE should know mechanics regardless of role, and knowing mechanics means KNOWING when is a safe, or safe-ish time to get up.

I know, OP did mention this is about the person getting up and being unhealed for a good 15-20secs, so I'm just generally speaking here. Us healers know what's going on on our side, DPS/Tanks just need to go beyond their bubble and understand the possible challenges too, or throw that salt away.

My only tidbit to this is that I put much more weight on when I can afford the MP and CastTime/Swiftcast CD to actually perform the raise and much much less on when you should actually be getting up :p

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Originally Posted by Ninster

Welcome to the healer forums. =/

If I had to guess, OP was addressing a subset of healers that don't lurk here, and has instead stirred up the healers that already know this and have their priorities in order. So my advice: If you want heals, don't die. If you die, as others have pointed out, make the best out of your 60 seconds of Raise status to accept at time when healers have things in control. And, worst come to worst, pop potions/Second Wind.

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It's worth noting that a dead player doesn't have to accept the res "when healers have things under control" if you don't throw out the res at a time when you don't have things under control in the first place.

The last time you want to be spending a cooldown and thousands of mana on res is when you're running at full blast in wipe-prevention mode. The timing on throwing out a res is just as important if not more so than the timing on accepting it.

You have no way of knowing with confidence what the person you're throwing a res at has available. They may have already blown self-heals to prevent a death previous to the one that got them, or in unsuccessful attempt to stave off the death that did. While there are exceptions generally speaking you should only throw a res when either
A) You know things are safe and they won't/can't fall victim to AoE damage.
B) You are ready and able to stabilize them when they get back up.

Otherwise you're just investing time and mp into potentially playing a game of whack-a-mole.

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Originally Posted by Sanghelios

Yeaaaa, No. There can be plenty of reasons why a healer doesnt heal you up to 100% asap. One of these reasons can be you, accepting the raise just before raid wide aoe comming up. In the end, complaining about this is just silly.

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This... If you accept raise into death more than once in PUG content... you can stay on the floor.

If the game would allow us to be healed as soon as our hp opens up that would help. But healers have to wait which is quite annoying

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

More like don't cast resurrect when everyone is marked with zombification and forgall is casting megadeath.

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You can cast resurrection even then. If the person being raised accepts it before mega death has gone off the problem lies with them not the healer who cast raise.

Generally speaking casting raise before these mechanincs go off is the best thing to do. because typically after they go off healers have quite a bit of healing to do to get the parties hp back up.

Staying with Forgall for example. if you're down i'm going to raise you before hell wind goes off. because i know for a fact that after it hits i'll be to busy mass healing my party to have time to get you up.

if you accept that raise before it goes off then you're a dumbass.

If you accept it after then there's a real good chance you'll get healed by my succor cast

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Originally Posted by Dzian

You can cast resurrection even then. If the person being raised accepts it before mega death has gone off the problem lies with them not the healer who cast raise.

Generally speaking casting raise before these mechanincs go off is the best thing to do. because typically after they go off healers have quite a bit of healing to do to get the parties hp back up.

Staying with Forgall for example. if you're down i'm going to raise you before hell wind goes off. because i know for a fact that after it hits i'll be to busy mass healing my party to have time to get you up.

if you accept that raise before it goes off then you're a dumbass.

If you accept it after then there's a real good chance you'll get healed by my succor cast

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This...

The person being raised has a lot more flexibility of when to accept it than the healer does of when to cast it.

The number of ingame players complaining that "the healer raised me and I died because of an AoE just after! This healer is dumb!" is damn too high.

The healer is the one casting the spell, indeed. But the responsability to press the confirmation button lies into the raised one.

This can be easily interpreted as: it's not the healer that raise you, it's yourself.
And also: it's not the healer who removes the invincibility frames you get after a raise, it is yourself.

People really need to lose the habit of frantically clicking the "Accept" button as soon as it appears. Really. This is dumb and shows how much the players who do that are clueless about what's happening and how the combat is designed in this game.

I'm thinking about my experience... but I do heal ppl who just being resed lol
Even if I didn't heal them in a second the other healer would do that

I even can't catch a chance to cast protect again(yeah I mean matching parties

One thing that a person can do i use potion after being resurrected; at least that's what I do when I'm raised. Since PotD gives HQ potions I have plenty in stock and I am sure their cheap in the MB and an HQ max potion heal up to 2400 HP, so that'll help keep you alive for a bit

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

I know I'm a jerk for this, but if you raise someone and don't heal them and they die to raid damage, and not from standing in stupid, but literally staying at 15% health because the healer wouldn't heal them, I will call you out on it and tell you that next time you need to heal them when you raise them.

I feel like the hall of novice should tell you that when you raise someone, you NEED to heal them ASAP.

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Or you could pay attention and realize that while I was raising you the tank dropped to 30% HP and needs to be saved. Or you could stop accepting the raise right before the raid wide AOE. Do you really think healers are intentionally not healing low health people?

I had an A12 run where the people actively moved away from me when they were supposed to stack on me. After I died, I was resurrected and I waited while taking no actions to draw out the invincibility you get right after you res. I received not one heal until I was killed by Mega Holy. The healers weren't panicking to heal everyone (since people only took damage from aggravated assault and dodged sacrament fine) and the tank was in no risk of dying.
These are the situations OP is referring to and I think it's fair to be a little frustrated when it happens like that. Most people understand sometimes more important things must be done, but dying to pure negligence rubs some people the wrong way.

My hint is: Wait for it.
When I'm raised I immediatelly go to the closest healer and stay behind them like they are my parents, when I get enough life that I won't die in one hit I get out to fight.

As i'm sure many others have said, it's not always an option.

A lot can happen after a raise. And often times when you aren't given a heal after raise, someone else needs it more, like the tank, or the other healer also died and there's massive aoe damage going out.

Also something that happens often, i'm not going to cast the raise when it's most convenient for you to get up, i'll cast it when i can, but that doesn't mean you have to accept it right away. If you accept it right before a heavy hitter AOE attack, i will not pity your death.

This post was nothing but problems from the get go. This is a rule (most?) healers know. Get DPS back to non-lethal heath post rez as soon as possible after making sure no other party members die. It's simple and most healers understand it. Also the players that frequent these sites are usually better because they are researching their class or just trying to cause drama, pointing something out like that is going to cause drama.

You main healer so I have to assume you didn't mean it like it read. What you typed (originally) has many holes and points blame at the healer. As a healer we usually are micro-managing a lot. If we die it usually causes a wipe. We are dodging/healing/dpsing and sometimes (often/all the time) frustrated with dps that can't do damage and do fight mechanics at the same time. If we fail it's completely obvious. When a dps dies regardless of how they were doing it also looks bad on us.

As a smn I try to pick up the rez's that the healer can't or isn't picking up for whatever reason but I won't pretend that I am not always wondering if I caused a healer to waste mp trying to rez the same person I did.. so I make a loud chatlog pre signal before I rez. Of course being smn this means no heals of any worth from me but I do signal so that the healer knows there is a recent rezzed player sitting at low hp. I do at least buff any recent rez with an Eye for An Eye if its available from cd and not already applied the tank.

As dps I try to look at the upcoming aoe on any dungeons I have memorized patterns in and wait for it to pass before accepting the rez but I wonder if I am keeping the healer waiting by not accepting it right away so this does effect my accept/response time.