Pugs in DF Can't do A12

I will say just bad luck. I did this one like 10 times in this two weeks, and always was a clear (not at first try on all, but a clear in the end).

I think A11 is the hardest one. And that one it is tru I got some abandons. Last phase can be a bitch. But not on A12.

Is not really hard at all.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

9 different groups, 9 different vote abandons (after 2-3 wipes each).

Every group so far has gotten past the tank Lb3 mechanic, but after that every group has wiped shortly after, constantly.

What happened to making content approachable for casual gamers? one person even asked if it was on savage ( he wasn't even joking).

Don't tell people you plan to make content more accessible then make content that isn't accessible.

Not even going to que for my 10th run, because I know in my head, it's just going to be another vote abandon.

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Sounds like it might be a personal problem. The fight itself actually isn't that hard, it just hits like a truck! That being said, I do kinda wish it hit harder to justify all the tanks I see in 100% tank stance. The fights easy with a bit of situational awareness.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Sounds like it might be a personal problem. The fight itself actually isn't that hard, it just hits like a truck! That being said, I do kinda wish it hit harder to justify all the tanks I see in 100% tank stance. The fights easy with a bit of situational awareness.

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What if it had a mechanic where if you were in DPS stance and had aggro... it'd use a special move (no cast time, cannot be avoided etc) that hit for 500 octodecillion true damage? Would that work for you?

Just pugged it moments ago for a friend.
Went smoothly. We only had one healer, too!

This time around Alex fights are much much easier than the last patches, with some better ilevels its gonna be a total faceroll. No nerf needed.

From what I've seen, everyone seems to have a problem with the Sacrament right after the Timestop. Myself included, it took a couple of lasers to the face and back for it down on me he's going to do that everytime. And the game designer's saw that coming too and showed it to us in the cut scene before hand too. The don't stack with a green arrow mechanic gets picked up pretty quickly, but I repeatedly see people not moving out of the way of sacrament again and again.

Cleared my first run in a pug..../shrug

You just have really bad luck. We've died a few times, but as long as you don't have a braindead group, you will be fine.

Ive been doing it with friends. As healer or dps. In the end any problems with alex is mechanics once ppl learn it healing\staying alive is easy. If they dont it can be a nightmare to heal depending on the amount of hp lost.
Probably best to make macros if u want a easier ride. For say pre spread out or stack, etc.

I've had the same Encounter with A12 Normal as I did with A8 normal and A4 Normal. Hit or miss on the group's ability to clear, but more consistent clears as the content is out longer. The same can be said about A11, A7, and A3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngOR...e=youtu.be&t=9
^
Everyone when they pug A11-and A12 and have bad healers that's basically what I think when i'm about to die since half the time I don't get healed because the healers are dead xD,But I still clear em so it's not bad.

Heya!

I can't count how many times I have found parties not able to do their job because they got carried on their clear or they were just new.

I understand that there are people who are new to the fight or don't know mechanics. What I can't understand, for the life of me, is why people like to waste their breath and fingers to insult, alienate and ignore said players.

Most of the times we wipe and somebody doesn't know mechanics, people get passive-aggressive, their manners become bad and the new player can only feel bad for...being new?

If you see elementary mistakes, always think the party has to start from scratch, explain basic mechanics and try again until you are able to do it, with patience and teamwork.

You don't just help the players like this; they will respect you, thanks to you they know something new, and in doing so you might even give them inspiration to help others. In short, you don't just help a player, but the community as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Izularia

Sounds like bad luck, tbh. There are indeed groups not capable of the fight, but most of the time people succeed after 1 or 2 wipes.

Give it time. As soon as people own good gear, DF groups are going to do the fight with ease.

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Gear isnt issue when a person can do it as 235.

A12 is the easiest fight for me as a Healer. Sure I wiped the first time because I didn't do the time stop mechanic correctly, but every time after was basically faceroll.

I had far more trouble with A11 and even A10.

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Originally Posted by HungryHippo

Gear isnt issue when a person can do it as 235.

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Sure, but higher level gear does make it a lot easier. DPS checks more easily met, damage not as punishing, makes mistakes more easily survivable and recoverable.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

How easy is A12:

- No one-shot mechanics. Even if you get hit by something, it's not gonna kill you, you also don't get any debuff from getting hit.

- Nothing to dodge. Compared to A11, this fight is very dragoon-friendly.

- Lame DPS check. You only have one DPS race part: the winged adds. And even if you fail it, it's not gonna kill you. Very very easy compared to A5, A7, A8, A11, and many other casual bosses that failing DPS race = wipe.

- Very forgivable. A mistake of players will not wipe the party. Maybe not for the green signal & gathering part but that's as easy as a cake walk.

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So much wrong information. -_- Fortunately others have already itemized your errors.

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Originally Posted by Heliantheae

From what I've seen, everyone seems to have a problem with the Sacrament right after the Timestop. Myself included, it took a couple of lasers to the face and back for it down on me he's going to do that everytime. And the game designer's saw that coming too and showed it to us in the cut scene before hand too. The don't stack with a green arrow mechanic gets picked up pretty quickly, but I repeatedly see people not moving out of the way of sacrament again and again.

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Timestop Sacrament needs players panning the camera and planning where to run while time is still frozen. There's good time to telegraph it when you know and start to look and then you need to start moving ASAP. That said, that Sacrament mixed with gravitational floor circles can be very cruel at times.

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Originally Posted by SpiritMuse

Sure, but higher level gear does make it a lot easier.

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Egh, the one time DPS checks weren't met in my groups was when every other DPS was doing less than half my damage and I had to jump !3! times in the isolation phase, finding the mobs at 48%-37% and 11% respectively. That's on my monk, who's only i235, so I can't even crack this up to me just having superior equip.

I dunno. With i260 I only need to jump twice there? Yaaaay!

The way I see it, it's just a lottery of whether you get a good group or a bad group. And the bad groups tend to be lost causes, with but few exceptions. I don't think gear is going to help there, unless it will allow my healers to stand in every every sacrament and get away with it.

Sucks, but I only farm Alexander through DF and I've never had to vote abandon aside from my very first A12.

<_< Makes ya wonder about the real issue here...

FYI I tested it out a while ago, but if for some reason you can't dodge the Sacrament beam after time stop, clipping on top of Alex is actually a dead spot to dodge the beam

A11 is worse from my experience

OP I sympathise. I really wish I'd experienced some of the good luck I'm reading about in this thread. Tried A12 for the first time today, three separate DF groups, many, many wipes. Tanks and heals dying all over the place. This much wasted time is not my idea of fun gameplay.

I've only had maybe two vote abandons out of the couple dozen times I've run A12. Heck, one of the clears was 7-manned because one person AFKed for the whole fight. Which, if a DF group can 7-man A12 before Alex even announces his enrage, I think it's just fine.

I didn't experienced that at all. Every DF group I ran the turns with (A9-12) went very smoothly and that's very surprising to me, knowing how badly midas and wc have been. Maybe it's the data center or the time, I did see a slight performance drop as I was running it on sunday because I was that bored, compared when running it right after reset. But in all it wasn't that bad and we didn't wipe once. Did we have dead healers/dps/tanks? Yes we did and it happens, gotta love smn raise tho :)

I would just suggest trying it on other days, maybe even right after weekly reset or form a pf group and see if that's less of a hassle for you.

In an 8-man you can bring a few of your own players to ensure things go smoothly. Bring the MT, one healer, and at least one DPS and you won't have to gamble.

Unlike Weeping City, which has a Savage-level price tag for weekly casual tokens that you can do very little about.

Just experienced one group who couldn't handle A12, didn't get item myself when we did run with FC-members so tried to get it before we start doing some more Sophia Ex..

Two warriors; saw 0 berserks during whole fight - Monk kept dashing straight into sacrament and died multiple times during fight, both healers running out of MP all the time. :(

Don't really feel like going back there before I can persuade some of FC members to ease it.

I've had a completely different experience. Mostly had one shots. Save for the first time, which was a two shot.

If you're a good healer you can carry pretty much any group through A12, just make sure to remind everyone of the important mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

9 different groups, 9 different vote abandons (after 2-3 wipes each).

Every group so far has gotten past the tank Lb3 mechanic, but after that every group has wiped shortly after, constantly.

What happened to making content approachable for casual gamers? one person even asked if it was on savage ( he wasn't even joking).

Don't tell people you plan to make content more accessible then make content that isn't accessible.

Not even going to que for my 10th run, because I know in my head, it's just going to be another vote abandon.

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*sigh* Ok FINE. You people win. I'll say it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ps2vkmscor.jpg

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

9 different groups, 9 different vote abandons (after 2-3 wipes each).

Every group so far has gotten past the tank Lb3 mechanic, but after that every group has wiped shortly after, constantly.

What happened to making content approachable for casual gamers? one person even asked if it was on savage ( he wasn't even joking).

Don't tell people you plan to make content more accessible then make content that isn't accessible.

Not even going to que for my 10th run, because I know in my head, it's just going to be another vote abandon.

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sounds like horrible luck.
i only ran creator in DF, and vote abandon maybe 2-3 times in total, between getting all the tokens for each floor, for 2 weeks.

the only way to make it more approachable to casuals, is to not have any mechanics...or someone will always complain it's to difficult.
i was even in a pt for aetherochemical whatever lv 60 dungeon, and wiped on last boss, until the 90min timer ran out.
this is the last floor of lv 60 RAID easy-mode, people should be able to handle such simple mechanics, at this point, or what have they been doing up until this point?

Welp seeing that this thread was made the devs are already discussing how to nerf it as we speak. 3.45 "please look forward to it."

9 different groups, 1 common element: You.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

this is the last floor of lv 60 RAID easy-mode, people should be able to handle such simple mechanics, at this point, or what have they been doing up until this point?

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Getting carried.

I have more failed A11 than A12 runs.

We'd usually lose in A12 because a DPS didn't enter the Timegate, or people are incorrectly placed during the markers.

In A11, people die from all sorts of things. Sadly, there are mechanics there that resembles Shiva's ice circles. However, there are players who were carried in Shiva Ex once and never went back, so they don't know how to handle A11's Optics mechanic. Some people don't Focus Target so they know when to hide during Propeller while Optics are exploding. AND... Some people get lucky in some runs where some mechanics are skipped, and then they join a run with no skipping and don't know what to do.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

What happened to making content approachable for casual gamers? one person even asked if it was on savage ( he wasn't even joking).

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As a casual, I am disturbed by this question. I was NIN main, and recently became PLD main. My first run in A12 as release, it wasn't difficult to understand what was going on. From what I saw, people struggle with learning from their own mistakes, or don't pay attention to HOW they dodged an attack the first time.

That said, after three wipes with huge progression, we cleared A12 in DF. In fact, most of my clears are 90% done in DF. The other 10% is stuff that requires a PF.

I've entered twice, both solo in DF. First had 2-3 wipes before the clear, second had one wipe before clear.

If you're going 0/9, you should consider going in at a different time, to get a better pool of party members.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

9 different groups, 9 different vote abandons (after 2-3 wipes each).

Every group so far has gotten past the tank Lb3 mechanic, but after that every group has wiped shortly after, constantly.

What happened to making content approachable for casual gamers? one person even asked if it was on savage ( he wasn't even joking).

Don't tell people you plan to make content more accessible then make content that isn't accessible.

Not even going to que for my 10th run, because I know in my head, it's just going to be another vote abandon.

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Sounds like a case of bad luck.

My first time in there; first week of new content, one shot it with no problems or wipes in DF. Second week my first time in there spent 45 minutes wiping with no clear and VA'd it. Second time in there of week two, wiped a few times, but cleared it.

You just got really unlucky with DF.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

In A11, people die from all sorts of things. Sadly, there are mechanics there that resembles Shiva's ice circles. However, there are players who were carried in Shiva Ex once and never went back, so they don't know how to handle A11's Optics mechanic.

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I have the dissagree with your shiva statement. I can FLY though shiva EX no problem. Never die .. even solo healing it back then. There are alot of other things going on during that part of the fight. There's lazers. There's the pray right before it. There's the constant burning. There's getting behind the generators ... which for SOME reason my character sticks to like she's made of magnets instead of going around. Why i cant run THOUGH it is beyond me. So before you go around assuming people were just carried only because they struggle with a certain point.. Idk maybe realize that sometimes stuff happens. And as a healer you're really over whelmed in that fight. I'm sure it will get better as I get more gear

Figured there would be a thread here.

Did this twice, wiped three times before abandon.
As far as I can see, it's a very DPS and Healer intensive fight.

Crazy thing is I have no problem with the mechanics, I did GOD AWFUL with Brute Justice compared to this. I've found myself taking a hard Prey to the face and with my healing and defensive cooldowns on a timer, I've found myself unable to get healed (or maybe I'm just too far for the healer since many are more prone to AOE heal?) before Alex does another one of his undodgeable raid wide aoe. I have noticed that people do die left and right sometimes which seriously hinders DPS as a whole, I'd hate to have to heal that fight, it must be hair pulling.

My DPS has been pretty high, first one to tear down adds in the later phase to help out the others as well as taking the semi holy guys down by myself. I think my FC tank parsed me and had no complaints there, but I feel that I could of done more to help... I usually don't use STR potions on normal raids, just food so perhaps I should just bring those to help with a clear. It's a fun fantastic fight, it's a shame people are struggling. What does more harm than good is that DF would give us like two Bards and two PLDs which might of hurt our second attempt.

@OP It's Turn 5 all over again.

I had a couple of fails my first run, embarrassing ones tbh but since then its been clears every run on Chaos.

IF we do fail, which happens sometimes but followed by a clear, its that healers are not picking up healing people after splash damage or things that are unavoidable. Leading to death when something else goes off.