Samurai Weapon: Nodachi or basic katana

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Recurring abilities are one thing, but role and stats wise, Samurai have always been more of a parry-counter class with high counter damage but equally high evasion and parry. And not to mention tactics samurai which is basically a support class.

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No. I had to look up the Samurai's appearance in all FF games before I posted that to make certain. Zeninage/Giltoss, Shiradori/Blade Grasp and "Iai" Instant kill abilities(single and multi-target) are the most commonly reoccurring abilities for the job. The Samurai is often one of the most devastating Heavy Frontliners along side the Dragoon because it has exclusive access to the slightly weaker but higher crit rate Katanas.

The Swordmaster of Bravely Default and Bravely Second is the only time the Samurai has focused on devastating Counter Attacks.

It'll be the big one as everyone wants to be this guy...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped.../Sephiroth.png

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Originally Posted by ErikMynhier

It'll be the big one as everyone wants to be this guy...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped.../Sephiroth.png

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You know with Samurai out and the new FFVII remake this outfit will come out (with the hairstyle that has constant clip issues of course).

But they cant make samurai a tank...if they did that...ALL the two handed heavy weapons would be tanks, which is silly. I actually have a few friends who wont play FFXIV because none of the DPS have the insane large swords/axes like in most games.

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Originally Posted by Keramory

You know with Samurai out and the new FFVII remake this outfit will come out (with the hairstyle that has constant clip issues of course).

But they cant make samurai a tank...if they did that...ALL the two handed heavy weapons would be tanks, which is silly. I actually have a few friends who wont play FFXIV because none of the DPS have the insane large swords/axes like in most games.

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If "silly" stopped SE we wouldn't have flying turtles and Yo Kai Watch. We left logic behind about a year ago.

That said I hope SAM is a dps as I would rather have a Nero inspired warhammer user or RDM as a wildcard tank.

Every eastern job introduced so far is a melee DPS. By the lore of the game world it's self, adding SAM as a DPS would mean the Ala Mihgan and Doman had no class or job that specialized in defense (small wonder they both fell to Garlemald...) The very essence of Bushido (as with Chivalry) was honor and service the idea of a Samurai lining up behind the target instead of engaging face to face breaks many of the icons we as fans have all grown up with. Even stated above by a detractor...

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Stop with the SAM tank. YoshiP already said SAM, if implemented, would definitely be a DPS. I doubt he would reneg on that. They won't get a spear or a bow, those exist already as arms for other jobs. Katana has been the premier Samurai weapon in every FF game and XIV will be no different. The only thing that I wonder about though is that attacking from flank or rear is unusual for a Samurai because they're all about fair-and-square combat/bushido honor etc. but all dps have positionals, but rear attacks are not a Samurai's style really.

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To that end, what gear are all the pro DPS SAM people envisioning for the job? Do you really expect to steal heavy Tank armor from DRK, PLD, and WAR? Are Samurai not supposed to use gear already themed for them once they hit 60?
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/cb1dae51f2e/


What many here forget I think is the subject is a real world historical Warrior culture, a nations pride (very much romanticized). Asking for it to be bastardized it for the sake "need sword DPS!" looking cool but having none of the responsibilities of Tanking says alot.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

To that end, what gear are all the pro DPS SAM people envisioning for the job? Do you really expect to steal heavy Tank armor from DRK, PLD, and WAR?

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we already have a dps in heavy armor: Dragoon. and i think it's time that the dragoons have to share their gear with another class too, like everyone else xD

My vote is for one normal sized Katana. SAM will be flashy enough with the weapon effects and animations I am sure. Why do we have to needlessly complicate things? I'd just be happy to HAVE the job.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

To that end, what gear are all the pro DPS SAM people envisioning for the job? Do you really expect to steal heavy Tank armor from DRK, PLD, and WAR? Are Samurai not supposed to use gear already themed for them once they hit 60?
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/cb1dae51f2e/

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I'd say the ranged and tanking Law sets are equally appropriate for Samurai, I'd go with the ranged set just because I'd prefer a more cloth base Samurai, given the Bushido style Samurai is done to death, while I rarely see the Ronin style done... Muramasa is perhaps the only game I can think of off the top of my head that did, and I loved the crap out of that game for it... Much more aesthetically pleasing to have a nimble Ronin, than a clunky Bushido, IMO... Heck, wouldn't we be Ronin by default? I can hardly see the Warrior of Light serving a Lord to get funding for ornate armors... Eorzea can always have its own lore I suppose, we're technically not Paladins, after all...

Not all gear has to suit the Jobs aesthetic though, that's primarily what artifact gear (quest/Mythology/Esoteric) is for... I mean, Law gear had a decidedly Doman feel to it, yet I wouldn't say the scouting set particularly fitted Ninja all that well, and good like finding ranged gear with a engineer vibe to it... SE can do whatever they please though, but I do seem to recall Yoshida mentioning that he is pretty much on the same side of the fence as me, preferring a cloth based Samurai to a heavily armored one... It's not entirely his choice to make though, if the developers think a counter based parry tank is the way forward, that's what we'll get... Personally I'd rather mix things up and adapt Blue Magic into a form of counter based tanking... Dark Knight and Warrior have already kinda taken a parry route anyway...

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Originally Posted by ErikMynhier

If "silly" stopped SE we wouldn't have flying turtles and Yo Kai Watch. We left logic behind about a year ago.

That said I hope SAM is a dps as I would rather have a Nero inspired warhammer user or RDM as a wildcard tank.

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Was there any logic in final fantasy games? I doubt. Final Fantasy was always about those crazy, magical, un-imaginable, sci-fi, surreal, world that we could play in, mech, futuristic, primals, ect..flying turtles and yo-kai watch fits in this, even though it doesn't fit with games lore, anything is possible in a final fantasy game.

As for SAM being a DPS, i highly doubt it. As back when ninja was released, they wanted to release SAM at the same time but it was still a work in progress (which mean it was a TANK), and they decided not to, because they had already release an oriental class and they felt it would be 'weird', or something like that.

But eh, not that i care if it goes DPS or not, my queue time are never long since i play healer/tank mainly ^^.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

No. I had to look up the Samurai's appearance in all FF games before I posted that to make certain. Zeninage/Giltoss, Shiradori/Blade Grasp and "Iai" Instant kill abilities(single and multi-target) are the most commonly reoccurring abilities for the job. The Samurai is often one of the most devastating Heavy Frontliners along side the Dragoon because it has exclusive access to the slightly weaker but higher crit rate Katanas.

The Swordmaster of Bravely Default and Bravely Second is the only time the Samurai has focused on devastating Counter Attacks.

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No.

In FFT Shirahadori is an absolute evasion skill, basically broken OP evasion that can get as high as 97% chance to evade any physical attackGiltoss is always a high damage skill but since it wouldn`t be aplicable to FFXIV doesn`t have a say in this discussion.
In FFXII Samurai has a high crit rate yes, but also is a high evasion off-tank.
The grand dad of the Samurai class is the Swordmaster from Tactic's Ogre, high evasion tank class with counter damage capabilities.

Even if you want to consider some of the main series part of the "job" like cyan from FFVI or Sauron from X as a "samurai". They are broken OP as characters by their own writing, as a class, the only instances worth to check are:

-FFV: DPSish.
-FFT: Support.
-FFXII: Off-tank and DPSish.
-FFXI: lol.
-Tactics Ogre: Off-tank and brutal counter damage. (out damages anything with counters...)
-Bravely Default: DPSish.

If we get SAM our way, it will probably be like WAR, high HP tank with "m8 u fkn wut" burst damage when needed.

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Originally Posted by Tint

we already have a dps in heavy armor: Dragoon. and i think it's time that the dragoons have to share their gear with another class too, like everyone else xD

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Except MNK and NIN.

But the WOL can be a paladin, though there seems to be lore that makes it different than the sultansworn, somehow

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

But the WOL can be a paladin, though there seems to be lore that makes it different than the sultansworn, somehow

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That was my point; We can't be a Paladin that serves the Sultan, which is pretty much the only thing a Paladin is meant to do, thus we're Free-Paladins. If they want Samurai to be a Bushido, they can do something similar... We're not going to serve a Lord in any real sense, quests might go the same route as Ninjas 50-60 quests, but that's a temporary arrangement and we can take up Samurai in the same honorary way we took up Paladin if needs be...

Still, I'd rather not... Blue Mage makes for a more unique counter based tank, and I find Bushido are overdone in popular culture... I'd much rather see a DPS Ronin... Heck, now that I think about it, this whole thing just makes me sad that we never got Job specializations... They could give us a talent tree sort of thing for Jobs, with the routes determining role... Then we could have Samurai (Bushido) as a tank, and Samurai (Ronin) as a DPS, can apply that to other Jobs that "should have been X", like Dark Knight, too... Slap a Convert style skill on there, give it Blood for Blood... Very much the traditional imagining of the Job...

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Recurring abilities are one thing, but role and stats wise, Samurai have always been more of a parry-counter class with high counter damage but equally high evasion and parry. And not to mention tactics samurai which is basically a support class.

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my samurais in tactics only get hit by magic, sometimes. Blade grasp and 100 bravery make you dodge everything in that iteration, its sick lol

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

my samurais in tactics only get hit by magic, sometimes. Blade grasp and 100 bravery make you dodge everything in that iteration, its sick lol

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Lion war got it nerfed by only having max 97 bravery, so NPC always had minimun chance of 3%... Broken as f**k. Again, is the game with Orlendau so... LEL.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Lion war got it nerfed by only having max 97 bravery, so NPC always had minimun chance of 3%... Broken as f**k. Again, is the game with Orlendau so... LEL.

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oh yeah, grinded my butt off to unlock DRK in that version, holy crap was that one character i spent 40 hours on broken as hell lol

you mean this guy?:

http://i45.tinypic.com/v4p45e.png

Most broken character in final fantasy series, ever.

SAM will likely be DPS and be put on maiming gear. Do you know how ridiculous it would look for SAM to wear the heaviest and thickest plate armor with a thick visored helm? Ugh.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

SAM will likely be DPS and be put on maiming gear. Do you know how ridiculous it would look for SAM to wear the heaviest and thickest plate armor with a thick visored helm? Ugh.

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No more than Machinists having outfits that look like Jesters.

With that said, There are still some viable Glamors that would fit or at least be close to the Samurai's aesthetics regardless.

• The best choice would be the Amatsu gear, but for obvious reasons that is not an option available to most (when SAM does become a Job)
• The Yasha/Asuran gear is influenced by Japanese aesthetics (though Fending is closer) but it might not be a perfect fit, as the aesthetics of Samurai are different from that of say...Ninja (Before anyone asks, the type of Monks that XIV takes inspiration from for MNK came form Tibet, and martial arts films).
• For the Headpieces. The Heavensturn event ensures that they will never want for a more shogun apperance (though the Animal aspect might be a constender) A few of which are even aviable on the MB

In addition once the class is in the game, we might see the following

• Finally we will likely see 2nd tier Tomestone artifact Armor, which is supposed to be iconic to the Job
• Lastly, despite the earlier comment ribbing on the Ramie Set, as a precedent, SE has taken some precaution to have vanity armor for NIN and MCH, having them with a Thief Outfit and and a Cowboy outfit (more leaning to the gunslinger side than the engineer side), So it seems likely that some Crafted sets (be it locked to Maiming or simple Glamour Outfits) would be fitting for SAM, and who knows, maybe it will in general lead to some Maiming Gear becoming more distinct from Fending Gear

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Unfortunately, Samurai throughout the FF series used 2handed katanas. There isn't a single instance of a Samurai class or character using 2 katanas. Edge doesn't count because he was a Ninja, and his katanas were shorter. Also, Dual wielding large weapons like Katanas is impractical, albeit stylish. Yes, we know Musashi did it but it was only effective for dualing and just because one guy did it and wrote a book about it, doesn't make it efficient.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJBEDxh0RQw

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Cyan, Genji Glove.

I'm just going to point out that we don't have a class that uses Maces yet. We could easily get a tank or dps that uses a two hander or one hander mace as a weapon :)

Just to be specific I am referring to the Kanabō.

Kanabō and the other related types of these club-like weapons were constructed out of heavy wood, or made entirely from iron, with iron spikes or studs on one end. One or both ends of the wooden type clubs could be sheathed in iron. Kanabō type weapons came in all sizes and shapes with the largest ones being as tall as a man and a two-handed weapon while the smaller lighter ones were primarily one-handed and the length of a forearm. The shape could be that of a baseball bat with a thick heavy end tapering towards a slender handle or they could be straight all the way from the handle to the end, with the shaft being round or multi faceted

Tbh, the kanabo was probably much more efficient at killing stuff than a katana. Kinda lacking a smashing damage tank. Dual Wielding kanabos even.

I mean we need more blunt damage users its kind of weird that monk is the only one still, but I dont really see it going to a final fantasy samurai, if that makes sense to you, maybe something else though

A geomancer/red mage/blue mage are potential candidates for a blunt weapon.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

SAM will likely be DPS and be put on maiming gear. Do you know how ridiculous it would look for SAM to wear the heaviest and thickest plate armor with a thick visored helm? Ugh.

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Like they did in ffxi and nobody cared?

Ironically you say they'll share maiming gear yet the overwhelming majority of maiming gear in Heavensward shares it's appearance with fending gear so you're arguing against the very same thing you're proposing.

One of many of your whack arguments in this thread though.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

I mean we need more blunt damage users its kind of weird that monk is the only one still, but I dont really see it going to a final fantasy samurai, if that makes sense to you, maybe something else though

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Honestly. I just said it for the sake of having something other than a sword be mentioned.

i could see maiming or fending gear honestly, just not cloth gear or leather, again im talking about the FF samurai aetsthetic, not any rorouni kenshin or zatoichi or yukata/hakama even if historically those could be exceptible

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

i could see maiming or fending gear honestly, just not cloth gear or leather, again im talking about the FF samurai aetsthetic, not any rorouni kenshin or zatoichi or yukata/hakama even if historically those could be exceptible

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And yet yoshi's idea of a dps samurai is the robe wearing iaido master as he's specifically stated. Not even yoshi p sees an armored samurai as a dps, so if they add samurai and it's true to how samurai look in past Final fantasy games (armor+helmet) then it'd be a tank.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

And yet yoshi's idea of a dps samurai is the robe wearing iaido master as he's specifically stated. Not even yoshi p sees an armored samurai as a dps, so if they add samurai and it's true to how samurai look in past Final fantasy games (armor+helmet) then it'd be a tank.

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doesn mean it has to be a bad tank though, i could see bloodletter like procs and a high dps potential in them as one, giving warrior a run for its money. More of a reactive tank with procs, i could see that being hella rewarding to play

Well, the typical FF Samurai would be a DPS in Fending gear... That's most likely not gonna happen, tanks kind of need their gear.

But to make an unarmored Samurai styled DPS class, could easily base it on this... http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Parivir_(Tactics_A2)

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Well, the typical FF Samurai would be a DPS in Fending gear... That's most likely not gonna happen, tanks kind of need their gear.

But to make an unarmored Samurai styled DPS class, could easily base it on this... http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Parivir_(Tactics_A2)

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Good read, they could possibly do this for a dps then sorry never played any of the advanced tactics games so i was unaware

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

Good read, they could possibly do this for a dps then sorry never played any of the advanced tactics games so i was unaware

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There's a bunch of good classes they could bring over from the tactics advance games, but the thing is barely anyone played them so nobody knows of them....

Naginata c:

reminds me of those cool akira kurosawa movies. It was always a katana and a wakizashi

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Originally Posted by Sciwolf

reminds me of those cool akira kurosawa movies. It was always a katana and a wakizashi

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You know I was also thinking of something similar. Why not a class that dual wields different weapons. I mean for us ninjas, our pair of daggers are classified as one wepon forever preventing me from carrying different knives in my hands.
So why not give a class offhand weapons?
Katana and Wakizashi, Katana and Kanabo, Kanabo and Wakizashi

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Originally Posted by Balipu

You know I was also thinking of something similar. Why not a class that dual wields different weapons. I mean for us ninjas, our pair of daggers are classified as one wepon forever preventing me from carrying different knives in my hands.
So why not give a class offhand weapons?
Katana and Wakizashi, Katana and Kanabo, Kanabo and Wakizashi

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As I understand it, it was explained that it was an issue with balance of two different weapons and the need for twice work being involved in gathering the two different weapons. It was decided that the design of the PLD classes ( the need to gather the Sword and Shield separately) was not something they felt was fair. This is why the NIN job was not allowed to use different weapons and instead uses it's paired daggers/ short swords.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

As I understand it, it was explained that it was an issue with balance of two different weapons and the need for twice work being involved in gathering the two different weapons. It was decided that the design of the PLD classes ( the need to gather the Sword and Shield separately) was not something they felt was fair. This is why the NIN job was not allowed to use different weapons and instead uses it's paired daggers/ short swords.

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Oh. :( Well it does make sense from a gearing up standpoint. Although if they reall wanted they could still sell it in a set. Like naming them: Pair of samurai swords or pair of samurai weapons. So still technically one main hand weapons but two distinct ones visually.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Well, the typical FF Samurai would be a DPS in Fending gear... That's most likely not gonna happen, tanks kind of need their gear.

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Samurai in Final Fantasy games have a history of supportive and defensive abilities as well as some named characters having straight up tanking abilities (Auron). They have more credibility as a tank job than Dark Knight ever had and yet we still got DRK. DRK often has high attack but low defensive stats while samurai usually have high-ish attack but also strong defensive stats. Hell in some games the Knight class has more attack than the Samurai class. Samurai's identity in past FF games has been a varied one in terms of role meaning they could implement it as pretty much any role if they see fit.

Any argument of "It was a dps in past games!!!" Can be immediately thrown out the window because we have Dark Knight tank and it's a job that had far less merit in past abilities for tanking than Samurai did.

As for Parivir, it's pretty much the only example of that archetype of samura and it's decidedly NOT called a samurai (same goes for Swordmaster in Bravely). So adding samurai in ffxiv as that style is honestly a disservice as that is not the "Samurai" of Final Fantasy. Every iteration of the Samurai job in Final Fantasy bears it's iconic armor and helmet, any samurai-like class that doesn't is specifically not called a samurai (Parivir, Swordmaster, Auron, Mononofu, etc)

SAM not getting Naginatas. Think about it. Lancer Arms includes all kinds of polearms: Spears, Lances, Halberds, Harpoon, Forks and their law weapon is a Naginata. PLD weapons include broadswords, short swords, gladius, longswords, knight swords, bastard swords, scimitars, rapiers. But how many variations of a Naginata could a SAM get to make it fundamentally different from DRG weapons?

DRG weapons make up Polearms from all different cultures. I'm positive if there's near-eastern equipment, DRG woul get a naginata, just how 3.0 gear focus a lot on knightly/medieval equipment with the Halonic/Orthodox gear.

Also, many of DRG's weaponskills involve SLASHING motions (although piercing damage is dealt). Katanas on the other hand are thinner and lighter than DRK weapons and are sheathed at the side rather than the back, therefore you can have iaido animations and such to make them fundamentally different. Naginatas were use almost exactly like glaives were, so there's not much difference in those combat techniques, but katanas were used differently from greatswords, the stance, the grip, the draw cuts, were all different. SAM will not get naginatas, cut it out.

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Samurai in Final Fantasy games have a history of supportive and defensive abilities as well as some named characters having straight up tanking abilities (Auron)

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Nobody in FFX was a single class. Yuna- White Mage/Summoner, Riku- Monk/Thief, Kimhari-Blue Mage/Dragoon, Wakka- Gambler/Ranger, Auron- Samurai/Knight.

Auron's defensive abilities stem from him having abilities associated with Warrior or Paladin, e.g., Break-abilities, Sentinel, Guard, etc.) Not a good benchmark for standard Samurai classes. A better example would be to use FFV, FFVI, FFT, FFXI, FFTA version of Samurai where they get mostly attack abilities but potentially a few defensive here and there (like any other melee class; like you wouldn't call a Dragoon a healer just because they get Healing Breath in FFXI or FFDimensions, therefore don't say Samurai was a tank class because they get Blade Grasp in FF5 and FFT or Third Eye in FFXI).

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Samurai in Final Fantasy games have a history of supportive and defensive abilities as well as some named characters having straight up tanking abilities (Auron). They have more credibility as a tank job than Dark Knight ever had and yet we still got DRK. DRK often has high attack but low defensive stats while samurai usually have high-ish attack but also strong defensive stats. Hell in some games the Knight class has more attack than the Samurai class. Samurai's identity in past FF games has been a varied one in terms of role meaning they could implement it as pretty much any role if they see fit.

Any argument of "It was a dps in past games!!!" Can be immediately thrown out the window because we have Dark Knight tank and it's a job that had far less merit in past abilities than Samurai did.

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Exactly! The people saying it doesn't make sense as a Tank are just being silly and deem it to be only a DPS job.
Now I'm on the pro SAM Tank side but I don't outright say "DPS SAM doesn't make any sense!" I believe SAM can easily fit the role of Tank and DPS. I see both points from both sides, but I cannot understand the people who just outright say SAM can't be a Tank. It just annoys me, they never have valid reasoning just saying, "SAM's don't wear heavy armor!" "We need a sword DPS!" "SAM Tank doesn't make sense!" etc... I won't argue this but can people please understand SAM has a 50/50 chance at both, have an open mind!