Rebalancing Suggestions for 4.0

No changes to system needed if marcos would be reworked to .0X of a second.

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Originally Posted by pizzatiem

I don't usually go on to the forums so I wouldn't have known better. I don't know this person at all I don't have any context on them to come to the conclusion that they were being sarcastic. I'm glad to hear it was sarcasm.

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Well the level of stupidity in the post should've been enough for you to guess that it was sarcasm. I don't know this person at all either.

MCH and BRD are still mobile. All you need to do is flick the Minuet or the Gauss Barrel off when you're avoiding AoEs or repositioning if you want to still run and gun. If you aren't dodging, then there's no need to be mobile when you're DPSing. People really do complain too much about Wanderer's Minuet and Gauss Barrel giving cast times. WM and GB are 30 percent damage buffs that are constant and have very short recast times. You are being awarded an extra 30 percent in damage the entire run (minus what little auto-attack does) for just standing still, that's it. No waiting a minute for Ley Lines to be ready. No building up Greased Lightning for one Tornado Kick. No stacking Aethertrails to go into Dreadwyrm and then have to wait for Aetherflow to be off cooldown. Flick WM/GB, stand still and shoot. You guys got it easy.

honestly the only thing i think they really need to do is a really big skill pruning/merging
there's a lot of stuff that's just extra buttons and a lot of stuff that could be merged by converting into traits

one of the few things wildstar did super right was the limited action bars. I know ffxiv can't trim it down to 10 buttons but they could certainly knock off a lot

certainly a big chunk of the 1-2-3 combos could be turned into traits. There's literally no reason to ever go back a step since it costs more tp for less damage

as a fairly simple example paladin could have 6 buttons trimmed down to 3 doing that

[fast blade] [savage blade] [rage of halone] [riot blade] [goring blade] [royal authority]
could very easily be turned into
[fast blade -> savage blade -> rage of halone] [riot blade -> goring blade] [royal authority]
with no impact to anything but number of buttons required

I find it funny people are using PLD, the job with the least buttons to press, as the example for trimming down buttons.

"Yeah, PLD only has to use 3 buttons to do Rage of Halone... but what if they only needed 1?????"

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

Did you miss the memo where all abilities on all jobs will be made easier? Basically the complexity they brought with 3.0 jobs they think that was a bad idea and they're going to "basics"

So it's not out of the realm for OP to ask for everything that just makes their job easier.

However i dislike that future but it doesn't seem there is enough people wanting to keep the jobs that complicated.

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If "easier" was the wording they used, I'm actually rather worried. I'd hate to think that the numerous different optimal Monk openers across different skill speeds, for instance, might get compressed, or that we'd have fewer oGCDs to play around with. (Except perhaps those as obviously 'just there to be there' as Power Surge, etc.)

But, if it's a matter of just making it easier to fit them all on our bars, I'll all for that.

For instance, one of the things I'd most like to see is simply slot-sharing. If two abilities are mutually exclusive by some condition, be it stance (Inner Beast - Fell Cleave), range (Quick Nock - Wide Volley), or proc (Fang & Claw - Wheeling Thrust), then you can put them in the same slot. This could include all toggles as well, such as swapping Oaths or Poisons. Ideally, this would be on by default, but you can still separately bind them as before.

The other possibly improvement would just be the obvious compression of combo lines into as few slots as possible, 2 for Dragoon, 3 for Ninja (SE - GS, SF - AE, DE, AC) and Monk (BS, DK, AotD - True, Twin, 1IP - SP, Demo, RB).

P.S. I wonder if we could ever compress our PvP abilities down into Adrenaline bar-fueled sort of Dark Arts-esque variations of our normal skills?

P.P.S. I also honestly hope also that we might eventually seem some macro reworks in order to make them more useful, but also more accessible. I know I'm splitting hairs at this point, but I imagine it would feel a lot better to just, on the actual Actions & Traits page, pick 'create Series' and start tossing abilities into it, to bind with automatic step-by-step tooltip matching and the GCD shown, so you can single-click a full combo and insert oGCDs at will between, without the added delay of current macros. I doubt I'd make much use of the feature myself, but I'm sure quite a few people would like it.

Instead of making Gauss Barrel not add cast times, add a seperate attachment called Quickdraw Grip:

-15% damage dealt
+30% skill speed
+5% crit chance
+20% chance to trigger Split Shot and Slug Shot's additional effect.

Gauss Round morphed into Rapid Fire Round
90 potency x stacks of ammunition (450 max.)
Additional effect: Removes damage reduction caused by Quickdraw Grip (5s)

Ricochet morphed into Bullet Hell
250 potency
AoE
Additional effect: Targets hit by this take 10% more incoming damage (10s)

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

I find it funny people are using PLD, the job with the least buttons to press, as the example for trimming down buttons.

"Yeah, PLD only has to use 3 buttons to do Rage of Halone... but what if they only needed 1?????"

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It's just an example for the whole combo system. I agree that it's currently quite clunky and basically uses an unnecessary number of buttons. The devs should take inspiration from Blade & Soul, where you have a crapton of skills per class but only limited to 14 fixed keybinds (both clicks, 1 2 3 4 Z X C V, tab, F, Q and E, and there's even a backdash skill bound to pressing S twice), most skills replace other skills for a short time when conditions are met and it works beautifully since some classes can sometimes have up to 6-7 skills on the same button, but with such a refined condition system that it just works perfectly.

@JustPlainLucas

It only took me seconds to adapt to the ranged casting stances, and as a day 1 MCH main, it really doesn't bother me. I was never the run-&-gun BRD before that anyways, and most content doesn’t require such constant movement of me. Some does, and there are times where dropping the stance in necessary, but consider this:


Wildfire IS my timed stance, in a way. If I want to really deal high damage, I have 15 seconds to do so; no refreshes, no resets, and if an enemy jumps/resets, I completely lose out on that. Timing is everything. That's not the time to drop my stance and with it, my damage and access to some of my most potent skills. Also, as a correction, WM/GB is a trade: 30% more damage but at the cost of auto attack. And let's not forget that we (BRD and MCH) are-yet-aren't "support". The moment we render said support for the party, we are effectively dropping our own DPS. DRGs suffer no penalty for Battle Litany (and never should), MNKs pay no price for increasing heals with Mantra, both very useful party support skills. No, they're not as crucial as MP/TP regens or Requiem/Hypercharge, but it does effectively make the idea of a DPS decrease for renering party support a bit contradictory. All jobs offer some sort of support-like compliment to another. BRD and MCH are just the only ones that take a hit for it.

This is all old salt being brought up once again, and I do hope the devs have taken note. Much like the idea was to balance the tanks by not nerfing WAR but buffing PLD/DRK to perform (roughly) on even footing, I would love it if the same consideration were taken for the physical DPS as a whole. Don't look to nerf ranged so that they don't outperform melee. Being at range hardly excuses us from damage or mechanics designed to hit an entire party, however we generally have lower defense and hardly much to mitigate with anyways. Please note: This is not me saying we must have the defense of a melee dps, but it is me saying they ought to try to even out performance at the highest levels of both types of DPS. If it means slightly more or less complexity, I'm willing to try it, so long as it's worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

I find it funny people are using PLD, the job with the least buttons to press, as the example for trimming down buttons.

"Yeah, PLD only has to use 3 buttons to do Rage of Halone... but what if they only needed 1?????"

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Yeah it's crazy how many buttons warriors have to use to do Butcher's Block. It's gotta be at least five times higher than paladins. Wait, no, it's also three. What was I thinking?

Are you trying to say that paladins, in 3.0, use a single combo? Because warrior has exactly 2 extra buttons on-gcd over paladin right now and dark knight has one extra on gcd. I am, of course, not counting AOE since those aren't rotation stuff.

Warrior would be 111 Butcher's Block, 121 Storm's Path, 122 Storm's Eye, 3 IB/FC, 4 Fracture.
Dark Knight would be 111 Power Slash, 121 Soul Eater, 122 Delirium, 3 Scourge
DRG 111 Chaos 222 Full 4 Heavy 5 Phleb 6 Fang/Wheeling depending on direction
NIN I honestly don't remember. Setup should be very similar to DRK.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Because warrior has exactly 2 extra buttons on-gcd over paladin right now and dark knight has one extra on gcd.

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It's almost as though PLD has the least of the 3.

My point is that if youre going to demonstrate simplification, maybe using the most simple class and dumbing it down further isn't the best way to go. It makes you sound like you want the game to be literally press 1 -> 2 to win. If you think the dev team for XIV is competent enough to make general content with mechanically challenging difficulty that puts merit into an overly simple rotation (3 button combos are simple enough, I do not understand why we're going with 2 now), then I have a bridge to sell you.

I'm not saying it can't be done, right - Blade and Soul is a good example of a really small button layout with a ton of situational skills due to automatic skill switching. But that's not happening in XIV unless Bahamut returns from his grave and turns everything to ash again. I think we should think in the confines of our simplest jobs atm - PLD, MNK, and WAR. We realistically shouldn't need to get simpler than those 3.

In the interview you can see that Yoshi-P thinks that the difficulty of Midas lies in the fact that you have to juggle a lvl 60 rotation with all the mechanics in each floor. Now, personally, if the hardest content is going to be Midas-tier and we're forced to press 1 and 2 for max DPS then I no longer see the point in raids as you've essentially flushed out anyone with skill beyond smashing their face against the keyboard.

I know there's button bloat, but look at PLD right since we're using that example so often - literally 6 buttons for all their combos. I play on a standard keyboard with a 2 button mouse, anything and everything for PLD fits on there perfectly, from CDs to it's oGCDs. That is why it's the worst example, it's literally "Yeah, yeah, PLD, simple class, but what if we went even further? What if we made it so a small baby could play PLD?"

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

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I don't see the difference in difficulty/complexity between pressing 1 2 3 and 1 1 1 for using a combo, especially with a 2.5 sec pause between them. You just have to use unnecessary keybinds that could be used for more interesting new skills instead. It doesn't change the complexity of the job whatsoever since the combos in this game are incredibly dull and are basically just one skill spread into 3 GCDs. If the game was action-based and if you had to press buttons quickly, then yeah, 1 1 1 would be much easier than 1 2 3. But that's not FFXIV's case.

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

words

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Right, so, here's the only realistic way I could accept 111 and 121 and blah blah blah blah: If 3, 4, 5, and 6 all become similar conjoined combos. If we're getting rid of the 123 system just for the sake of more "+5% damage", "deals 500 unaspected potency", "deals 50 potency over time for 30s", etc then I don't see the point. If anything at all is the problem, right, and I'm fairly certain I remember this from the interview, it's actually the oGCDs/buffs/etc that need to be toned down. I really severely doubt it has anything to do with GCDs being too overwhelming.

I play on a standard m/kb as well and everything for every class fits on there fine. Turns out, every class gains abilities at about the same rate and they all have roughly the same number of buttons to press (except for pet classes, who might want a couple extra).

However, just because everything fits on there now doesn't mean it will in the future. It also doesn't mean the current combo system is a good one. Finally, 123->111 isn't dumbing down if 2 and 3 don't do anything on their own anyway because there's no execution requirements to speak of. These aren't chain combos in a fighting game.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

It's almost as though PLD has the least of the 3.

My point is that if youre going to demonstrate simplification, maybe using the most simple class and dumbing it down further isn't the best way to go. It makes you sound like you want the game to be literally press 1 -> 2 to win. If you think the dev team for XIV is competent enough to make general content with mechanically challenging difficulty that puts merit into an overly simple rotation (3 button combos are simple enough, I do not understand why we're going with 2 now), then I have a bridge to sell you.

I'm not saying it can't be done, right - Blade and Soul is a good example of a really small button layout with a ton of situational skills due to automatic skill switching. But that's not happening in XIV unless Bahamut returns from his grave and turns everything to ash again. I think we should think in the confines of our simplest jobs atm - PLD, MNK, and WAR. We realistically shouldn't need to get simpler than those 3.

In the interview you can see that Yoshi-P thinks that the difficulty of Midas lies in the fact that you have to juggle a lvl 60 rotation with all the mechanics in each floor. Now, personally, if the hardest content is going to be Midas-tier and we're forced to press 1 and 2 for max DPS then I no longer see the point in raids as you've essentially flushed out anyone with skill beyond smashing their face against the keyboard.

I know there's button bloat, but look at PLD right since we're using that example so often - literally 6 buttons for all their combos. I play on a standard keyboard with a 2 button mouse, anything and everything for PLD fits on there perfectly, from CDs to it's oGCDs. That is why it's the worst example, it's literally "Yeah, yeah, PLD, simple class, but what if we went even further? What if we made it so a small baby could play PLD?"

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Your missing the point entirely, the basic combo is only a small fraction of what each job does.
It's just a sample of how they could trim down necessary buttons because it's getting crowded. It's not a matter of making the game any easier

for monk it would just be a matter of putting the back skills and side skills on same button and auto toggle based on stance
that would cut 6 buttons down to 2(8 down to 3 if you include the aoe) but would not change the necessity of remembering where in the stances you are, how much duration your various buffs/debuffs have, what side of the mob you need to be on, etc etc. In fact monk is a rare case of almost being able to do it already with a macro since most of them are disabled out of stance
the only problem being that "all stances at once" buff but there is always a way to workaround

warrior could have it's combo skills trimmed to [heavy swing -> skullsunder -> butcher's block] [main -> storm's path] [storm's eye] to cut down buttons without really changing anything
and inner beast/fell cleave steel cyclone/decimate could be combined and toggle by stance like equilibrium already does

The combo thing works exactly the same for all jobs that use combos, you just need to add 1 key for each fork in the tree it's not rocket science

bard could have the bloodletter and rain of death just be toggles on heavy shot and wide volley, lots of people macro it that way already anyways, and why have quick knock and wide volley? they pretty much do exactly the same thing except wide volley eats up tp faster, when they changed the aoe skill procs for bard they also made having them as separate skills kind of silly
and wind bite/iron jaws could easily be extensions of venomous bite to the tune of "additional effect venom; additional effect: if target is affected by venom instead causes windbite; additional effect: if target is affected by venom and windbite refreshes both durations" the timing needs and usage remain exactly the same but all of a sudden 3 keys get trimmed to 1, could even have it alter potencies to match the current ones as additional effects tend to alter those anyways

literally every job has space to do that so it's not eating up so many keyboard resources without really changing how the job plays at all.
a few would need tweaks to work like black mage but black mage already uses far less buttons than most jobs so it wouldn't need as much love to condense it

do you really want the game to end up like WoW where every job had like 50 buttons of crap cluttering up everything and making the game feel more tedious than exciting?

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Originally Posted by Nihility

do you really want the game to end up like WoW where every job had like 50 buttons of crap cluttering up everything and making the game feel more tedious than exciting?

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yet now every class has between 10 and 15 buttons in WoW, after all the revamps they did

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

Did you miss the memo where all abilities on all jobs will be made easier? Basically the complexity they brought with 3.0 jobs they think that was a bad idea and they're going to "basics"

So it's not out of the realm for OP to ask for everything that just makes their job easier.

However i dislike that future but it doesn't seem there is enough people wanting to keep the jobs that complicated.

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It feels like they dumped all of the fun mechanics and battles for an extreme focus on our rotations, DPS, and rushing through everything.

I'm just gonna say, I think MCH/BRD are fine as is and that includes the Gauss Barrel and Wanderer's, the cast time is not as big of a deal as people try to make it out to be.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Stuff like tempered will though... can't remember the last time I used that. The skill could be deleted, or its effects chucked on Sentinel. Nothing of value would be lost.

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Temper Will is useful against knockback or pull mechanics like in Shiva EX or similar.

Having more fights designed that made situational skills actually useful (because pretty much every boss is immune to sleep and stun) would definitely help diversify fights. Having a boss that you need to stun or sleep to prevent certain mechanics, or a tank that needs to Tempered/Holmgang to prevent positioning nightmares is such a basic way to expand the diversity beyond the current "DPS, dodge, position, repeat" that many mechanics ultimately are currently. This would bring value to otherwise niche skills, improve fight dynamics, and do so without bloat or neutering anything.

I'd really like SE to consider making our interaction with our abilities more intuitive and engaging.

Take a look at how games likes Blade and Soul, Aion, TERA, and ArcheAge deal with limited space for a lot of abilities. For example, let's say Ability 1 can trigger Ability 2. Instead of pressing '1' and then '2', Ability 1's icon changes to Ability 2, so the player only has to press '1' again. If this is used for multiple abilities, it means we can actually get a wider range of abilities to use from all of the space that's left over.

They've said it more and more that FF14 is beginning to transition towards more unique and challenging content to keep the game fresh. Maybe on top of enhancing the way we engage with our abilities, we could see a return of elemental weaknesses/strengths/etc, or maybe lowering the GCD from 2.5 to 2, or 1.5.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

I find it funny people are using PLD, the job with the least buttons to press, as the example for trimming down buttons.

"Yeah, PLD only has to use 3 buttons to do Rage of Halone... but what if they only needed 1?????"

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It works well in Aion to keep skill bloat down, no reason it couldn't work here too.

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

yet now every class has between 10 and 15 buttons in WoW, after all the revamps they did

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exactly, because it got way out of hand
Wouldn't it be better if ffxiv tried to keep it reeled in before it has to do a gigantic revamp of every single class?

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Originally Posted by Norleas

Instead of making Gauss Barrel not add cast times, add a seperate attachment called Quickdraw Grip:

-15% damage dealt
+30% skill speed
+5% crit chance
+20% chance to trigger Split Shot and Slug Shot's additional effect.

Gauss Round morphed into Rapid Fire Round
90 potency x stacks of ammunition (450 max.)
Additional effect: Removes damage reduction caused by Quickdraw Grip (5s)

Ricochet morphed into Bullet Hell
250 potency
AoE
Additional effect: Targets hit by this take 10% more incoming damage (10s)

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I like this thematically.

Idk if this was suggested or not yet. But making the MCH turrets follow, similar to sum/sch. That would help maintain the turret buffs so they are more equal to brd.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

No changes to system needed if marcos would be reworked to .0X of a second.

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I wish I could plus 1 more then once. That would fix all my issues.

For SMN and SCH, just remove the need for all the different buttons to have your pet manually attack/cast and consolidate them into four abilities whose effect is determined by the current Carbuncle/Egi/Fairy. These names are clunky, but you get the gist, I hope:

Alpha Tactic: standard auto-attack/heal
Beta Tactic: the stun/knockback/regen/debuff heal
Gamma Tactic: the AoE attack/regen/buff
Delta Tactic: the AoE buff/Contagion/Silence/whatever Eos' 4th ability is (not a big SCH player since 3.0).

That just condensed the 12 SMN pet and 8 SCH pet abilities to a max of 4 shared among the Egis and Fairies, assuming you also have their auto-attack hotbared (which I don't know why you would, but I'm not a big SMN/SCH player, so feel free to correct me on that).

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Originally Posted by Mysteltain

For SMN and SCH, just remove the need for all the different buttons to have your pet manually attack/cast and consolidate them into four abilities whose effect is determined by the current Carbuncle/Egi/Fairy. These names are clunky, but you get the gist, I hope:

Alpha Tactic: standard auto-attack/heal
Beta Tactic: the stun/knockback/regen/debuff heal
Gamma Tactic: the AoE attack/regen/buff
Delta Tactic: the AoE buff/Contagion/Silence/whatever Eos' 4th ability is (not a big SCH player since 3.0).

That just condensed the 12 SMN pet and 8 SCH pet abilities to a max of 4 shared among the Egis and Fairies, assuming you also have their auto-attack hotbared (which I don't know why you would, but I'm not a big SMN/SCH player, so feel free to correct me on that).

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Scholars and Summoners don't suffer from these. They are compartmentalized within themselves and can be isolated onto different hotbars.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Scholars and Summoners don't suffer from these. They are compartmentalized within themselves and can be isolated onto different hotbars.

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True, but on controller it's been a nightmare to get everything for SCH and SMN to fit on three cross hotbars (two standard and an expanded hotbar). Admittedly, limiting myself to three per job is a personal preference, but those two jobs do have the largest amount of ability bloat if one wants to manually control their pets.

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Originally Posted by Mysteltain

True, but on controller it's been a nightmare to get everything for SCH and SMN to fit on three cross hotbars (two standard and an expanded hotbar). Admittedly, limiting myself to three per job is a personal preference, but those two jobs do have the largest amount of ability bloat if one wants to manually control their pets.

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I run my SCH with 5 hotbars + extended, but when each fairy is out I'll use only 2 + extended, until I need to switch out or resummon, then i will use my back 5th hotbar, so I may have 5 hotbars, but I only actively access 2 + extended on each fairy. :O

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Originally Posted by Sylisto

Idk if this was suggested or not yet. But making the MCH turrets follow, similar to sum/sch. That would help maintain the turret buffs so they are more equal to brd.

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The turrets actually already have an impressive range. And MCHs generally have free reign over where they're placed. Now I wouldn't be adverse to a 3rd turret that's mobile, but the big question is what would it do that the Rook/Bishop don't already do?

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

I run my SCH with 5 hotbars + extended, but when each fairy is out I'll use only 2 + extended, until I need to switch out or resummon, then i will use my back 5th hotbar, so I may have 5 hotbars, but I only actively access 2 + extended on each fairy. :O

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Well, color me impressed, haha! Back in 2.0 I had my SMN and SCH pet abilities compartmentalized, but in a way that clashed with my standard cross hotbar setup. Normally the abilities I have of L2+R2 and R2+L2 are the same for each individual job so that I don't have to worry about using the wrong combination in the heat of the moment. Obviously, that didn't work for SMN and SCH. That lead to me, more often than not, getting the wrong L2 and R2 combination that corresponded to my current pet. I tried other hotbar setups, but found that any more than two, plus a third for items, barring the expanded hotbar, was too much of a hassle for me to tab (quick or otherwise) through.

Admittedly, with a good amount of practice I could probably work something out, but as it stands these jobs just have too many abilities for me to comfortably play with, and at the level I want to, which I feel is most important to me when I run content with others. I want to play SCH and SMN well, but I never really feel like I'm playing them at my best just because of the hotbar management I find myself struggling with. Which sucks because I really like SCH, haha!

Well here's a thought, people don't like casting times on Range classes aka BRD and MCH, so how do we fix that? You can't just give them back mobility without acknowledging that it would imbalance their ability to be threatened by AOE effects while effecting their DPS. It would just give them that edge to pretty much "ignore' mechanics because they have less to worry about.

So here's a thought that came to mind, what makes BRD and MCH unique? BRD is suppose to be Instrumental and MCH has Turrets along with their bullets to manipulate their procs while BRD uses DoT to manipulate it's procs.

So what if the stationary concept to those jobs was based on them using their special abilities, music and turrets.

When a brd plays a song they obtain a similar circular effect like BLM's Ecochain which they have to stay in to keep the effect of the song. When they move out they have x seconds to get back in before the song effect is both negated and reduced back to it's base amount.

For example, take Foe Requiem, let's just say for simplistic sake you activate the song, get the circular AOE and fight, it startsat a 5% boost with a max of 20% let's say, for every 10 seconds you stay on the circle it goes up 1% and you would have abilities that help you manipulate the range and even add new potencies to the song.

Say you could stack another song on top of your current song, that would mean it would be tougher to upkeep, something like 1 seconds lost everyone song, so when you have 2 songs up you star to lose 2 seconds per seond but you are free to remove them as you please.

The main gimmick behind BRD then coudl be a true BRD, stacking their songs to increase their dmg potency as well as buff/enfeeble the battlefield. Some songs could even be from comboing other songs that give you a short burst of perks like Straight Shot guaranteed crit for next 10 seconds or Venom Bite potency double for next 3 seconds. Make the job more reactive, keep the stationary aspect but instead make that stationary aspect a means to enhance the song aspect of the job to give the player a chance to do more with the job instead of being a brd that plays like BLM. The final balance I would add to that concept would be to allow an ability that let's the Brd move their "Tune" to another postion at the cost of half the potency and duration of the "Tune" for content in which you may move around a lot.

As for MCH, it would be similar but more focused on Turrets and maybe even going back to the concept SE originally wanted to do to have more attatchments for the job. The Rook could be a single target DPS with a focus on DoT additions while Bishop could be an AOE with focus on enfeebling. And the MCH would be able to take the turret up three stages with 2 options per stage to customize the Turret to their choosing based on the flow of combat.The two options per would basically be Rook= DPS or DOT and Bishop= AOE DPS or AOE Enfeeble

But in order to upkeep these Turrets the Machinst would need to setup the Turret and then place a Controller to stand by to help augment the Turret, the longer they stand by it the quicker they can upgrade the turret but if they move away from the controler the Turret begins to downgrade one stage at a time til it's back to 0.

Pretty much the idea is to just create a unique way to have those jobs need to stand still without it being based on their DPS abilities but rather their unique traits. If executed properly I think people would have a lot more fun with those jobs if they really are against the way they currently play.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

Did you miss the memo where all abilities on all jobs will be made easier? Basically the complexity they brought with 3.0 jobs they think that was a bad idea and they're going to "basics"

So it's not out of the realm for OP to ask for everything that just makes their job easier.

However i dislike that future but it doesn't seem there is enough people wanting to keep the jobs that complicated.

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good news, i really prefered coil era, where i can play BLM and offer a decent dps in a raid setting, even clearing T13 with it, when my main was Warrior was fun to do.
but in alexander era, i can't BLM in any of the raids let alone voidark without lousing my enocian too fast.

For Dark Knight:

Give Plunge a new potency of 500, no, 600
Put Plunge on the GCD
Give Plunge a 50% chance of inflicting critical damage
A successful Plunge spreads a highly damaging DoT to surrounding enemies
Every Dark Knight ability now has a chance to end with an instant Plunge

That should do for now.

Scrap the CC system and just give the jobs skills with the effects of those old CC skills.

If you want a CC system in place then actually make an actual CC system where you spend points on skills you normally wouldn't have access to.

Also each player should have "their own" LB meter. It works in PvP it can work everywhere else as well.

so many of the jobs has just become overblown and complicated just for complication's sake. There are a few things they should just drop outright, they are buttons for the sake of being buttons. Cleric stance for instance (link the spells to mind), but the winner has to be ninja's wasp/viper pointlessness. You never want to turn it off, and if the only reason to swap is to use silence or stun. The 20% boost without the "button" and jugulate always stuns, mug steals a tiny HP amount. Just about all classes have similar messy/clunky "skills" and "stances" that should be innate with the job/class rather than adding to button/keybind bloat. Tank stances are also not useful, an emnity reduction skill if you happen to be off-tanking makes more sense.

They also need to give mch/brd back their mobility. HW wiped out a whole type of class/gameplay that needs to come back. Not all ranged need to be casters.

Sadly, they botched blm so badly I see no hope for it. Ley lines should just be a speed buff and not some ground thing, enochian needs a reset like kassastu.

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Originally Posted by Zafrei

Biggest improvement they could make is a pruning of the skills. Merge similar skills and remove obsolete ones. 20+ skill rotations should really be a thing of the past, imo 12 is really the sweet spot for a core rotation, with an additional bar for consumables and situational skills.

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Dear god, please no. Ability pruning can be overdone to disastrous effect. Just look at WoW now. If you level from 1 you can have as much as 8 levels without any new skill and combat boils down to pressing a single button over and over again. Maybe two if you are lucky. What I would instead suggest is abilities that replace older ones. Kinda like how summons work for the two arcanist jobs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

Did you miss the memo where all abilities on all jobs will be made easier? Basically the complexity they brought with 3.0 jobs they think that was a bad idea and they're going to "basics"

So it's not out of the realm for OP to ask for everything that just makes their job easier.

However i dislike that future but it doesn't seem there is enough people wanting to keep the jobs that complicated.

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Maybe I didn't understand correctly but I think what Yoshie-P actually said that the change in difficulty between 2.0 and 3.0 was too big, so for 4.0 they won't throw in completely new mechanics in your face. That doesn't mean the 3.0 changes will be removed or anything. In fact they will most likely not change that much at all, to make sure you don't have to relearn your class every expansion.

My BLM suggestion:
I guess we'll get another 5 skills (62/64/66/68/70)
Keep eno and fire/ice-4, just add 2 high CD buffs and 3 skills we can use during GCD.

Thats it, i like BLM :D

BRD needs to have WM scrapped, AoEs reworked, and song added + tweaked.

As it is Wide Volley has no point, same potency as Quick Nock, but it cost more, for a suggestion I'd make Volley into a placed AoE like Flaming Arrow.

With my suggestion, WM could be removed by making Flaming Arrow work like Fist of Fire works for MNK.

For songs, I'd combine Ballad and Paeon into a single song, remove the enmity that Foes grants, add a debuff for nonmagic based class, and add the songs Jehantel has Voice of Valor, Voice of Fortitude, and Relentless March.