I might get hate or banned but hey w/e

the glorious FFXI or otherwise known as ppl mistake massive time investment for a difficulty

That was a great article and everything that person said was very true. Unfortunately FFXIV wasn't made with community being its first thought. I think it tried but it didn't work.
Which is one thing i really hate about XIV.

I will always remember walking near the entrance of the city of Jeuno and seeing all those players standing out side sealing items from their personal shop. Said it once and will say it again Abysea killed FFXI. what the hell was they thinking.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

...and if finally lights turn OFF ,i hope SE will let players play a offline version of it , with trusts u can really solo tons of content :)

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Once the servers finally close and the game ends for good they'll be making a semi-multiplayer version for phones. Using the same assets (possibly clean them up), trim whatever they'll consider fat, and release it as a standalone title with multiplayer functionality. That way the core of the game will continue to exist.

Here's the reddit that I believe is keeping the most track of it:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxi/commen...obile_updated/

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Originally Posted by Sparktacus

I'm really not sure why Abyssea was so hated but I know its a popular opinion. I rejoined after a big break right into Abyssea and I loved it. It finally made things easier to solo, AF3 was reasonable to achieve, and there were so many fun items to hunt for so when I logged in I had plenty of stuff to do. Though VW was there too and, well VW was amazing in every way.

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Is there still a great community in FFXI? I haven't been back there in so long as it is I don't think my Imac can run it so i will never get a chance to replay it.
I also remember when i went in to Dunes it was empty as hell.
I think with so many MMORPGs out now trying to go back to that game would be like walking through a desert. It would be a complete wasteland.

We all acknowledge that FFXIV has problems, both on the dev side and on the player side. However, begging for the game to be like FFXI is just never going to happen, period.

Nor does it solve anything at all, me wishing that FFXIII was more like FFIX because I am utterly biased doesn't fix the reasons for why FFXIII sucks.

Not trying to throw hate at FFXI or the OP but... there was just a really huge thread that finally died that was all about FFXI. And now... well here's another one xD. As I said though you, the OP probably never knew about this thread but any who..

I was brought into FFXIV first and I absolutely love his game. I love the speed, the movement, the ability to play solo, the ability to kill squirrels and ladybugs alone, and etc. Probably because I'm ignorant but it just seems like based off of boss fights I've watched, you move so slow in FFXI that I'd probably fall asleep or my eyes would fall out/melt..

I dislike the idea of having to group up for everything because the world is THAT dangerous. FFXIV being a "pick-it-up-and-play" game is one of its strong points in my opinion. Because all of the people who don't want that hassle can well.. pick it up and play! The stories I've heard about FFXI and it's server communities make it seem like(in my PoV) that servers are kind of like massive cliques. Where if you don't know anybody you don't get anywhere... But I can be wrong lol. Never touched the game myself..

I seen many leave ffxi longggg before Abysea. Wouldn't say that's what killed it, many enjoyed Aby as much as any other content, myself included. ;)

Time killed the game paired with se NOT hearing requests of their customers until things were too late but meh ...everyone has a different opinion no one is completely right nor wrong.

I like ffxi still, never stopped paying for my sub since day 1. I see recent qol changes as a great things that they should have been added yearsssss ago...not as a "shell" of its former self at all.
Its glory days however are over, just gotta accept that, I think wows glory days are numbered as well for numerous reasons....such is the natural way of any game. Welcome to reality.

I enjoy wow too and only stopped my sub once temporarily in 10+ years due to extremely poor developer decisions, but back in there now too.

Rift, Tera...they all have some fun aspects for me.

There is no supreme , ultimate, perfect game in existence, never has been. I never am blinded to think that way.
I dabble and enjoy a few games at any given time as to not become "obsessed" with one in particular as I think ppl turn a bit "odd" when that happens lol You can be loyal to a game (as I have been to many) without it needing to be the "end all be all of ones existence and every other game better copy it to a tee or else its garbage!"

Nostalgia is very high for me in ffxi and wow. I recognise it as such.

I don't expect ffxiv to be a copy of either, but I do think its wise of se to grab certain tidbits that other games have done exceptionally well....which sadly they are not fully embracing yet.

ie/ Housing, wardrobe /dyes from Rift, WOWs catch up mechanics for new xpacs/players, addition of add ons OR an huge revamp to current ui options, the gorrrgeous gear designs/textures and fluid animations from Tera, and the vast amount of variety of outdoor content from ffxi and gear lasting in value a tad longer then it does currently, just as a few examples. Just an opinion.

Maybe with time and hopefully increased resources they can add or improve some features in the future to match the quality of the other games. They have done some things just right, but definitely a lot of room to improve, I do hope they see that. ;)

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Originally Posted by MistyMew

I seen many leave ffxi longggg before Abysea. Wouldn't say that's what killed it, many enjoyed Aby as much as any other content, myself included. ;)

Time killed the game paired with se NOT hearing requests of their customers until things were too late but meh ...everyone has a different opinion no one is completely right nor wrong.

I like ffxi still, never stopped paying for my sub since day 1. I see recent qol changes as a great things that they should have been added yearsssss ago...not as a "shell" of its former self at all.
Its glory days however are over, just gotta accept that, I think wows glory days are numbered as well for numerous reasons....such is the natural way of any game. Welcome to reality.

I enjoy wow too and only stopped my sub once temporarily in 10+ years due to extremely poor developer decisions, but back in there now too.

Rift, Tera...they all have some fun aspects for me.

There is no supreme , ultimate, perfect game in existence, never has been. I never am blinded to think that way.
I dabble and enjoy a few games at any given time as to not become "obsessed" with one in particular as I think ppl turn a bit "odd" when that happens lol You can be loyal to a game (as I have been to many) without it needing to be the "end all be all of ones existence and every other game better copy it to a tee or else its garbage!"

Nostalgia is very high for me in ffxi and wow. I recognise it as such.

I don't expect ffxiv to be a copy of either, but I do think its wise of se to grab certain tidbits that other games have done exceptionally well....which sadly they are not fully embracing yet.

ie/ Housing, wardrobe /dyes from Rift, WOWs catch up mechanics for new xpacs/players, addition of add ons OR an huge revamp to current ui options, the gorrrgeous gear designs/textures and fluid animations from Tera, and the vast amount of variety of outdoor content from ffxi and gear lasting in value a tad longer then it does currently, just as a few examples. Just an opinion.

Maybe with time and hopefully increased resources they can add or improve some features in the future to match the quality of the other games. They have done some things just right, but definitely a lot of room to improve, I do hope they see that. ;)

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Funny thing is so many people have stated some of the things that you have stated time and time again. I don't SE will ever listen till its to late when it comes to this game. I'm looking forward to the next exp pack. It takes a long time for things to change. But people keep bringing these issues up and SE seem to be ignoring it completely. Don't Know how much longer I will continue to play this game. As it is i only come on for the MSQ that's the only thing that I find interesting about this game. If it wasn't for that and the amount of time i've put into this game. I would of left time ago. LOL is spend more time checking whats been posted on here than I do playing the game in my mind that's really bad.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

I played it and was fun, but vastly prefer solo friendly gameplay to old school games that require grouping to do anything.

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So go play a RPG, not a MMO .... What is the point in playing solo on a ONLINE GAME.... -_-

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

Once the servers finally close and the game ends for good they'll be making a semi-multiplayer version for phones. Using the same assets (possibly clean them up), trim whatever they'll consider fat, and release it as a standalone title with multiplayer functionality. That way the core of the game will continue to exist.

Here's the reddit that I believe is keeping the most track of it:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxi/commen...obile_updated/

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yeah i know that ( i played grandmasters and is fun as hell!), but FFXI reboot is only android / ios.....if the game was released in PC aswell....then that would be cool.

FFXI is still "unique" , there is no game like that anymore , even when now u can have trust and arent "forced" to group , there is nothing close to that and probably never will :(

https://j.gifs.com/jR4PnY.gif

I disagree with the notion that Abyssea killed FFXI. If anything it revitalized it. FFXI was already an old, old game by the time Abyssea came along. Folks were already getting very tired of the horrendous grinds in the game. When Abyssea was added it was something completely new, that had never been seen in the game before. The progression system there was unique: Defeat special NMs to acquire superpowered buffs that only worked in the Abyssea zones. Use those buffs to defeat even stronger NMs to get still stronger buffs. And the exp system was totally overhauled in those zones, as well - important, because not a lot of folks would have been happy with the idea of progressing from level 75 to 99 in the same way. Given the enormous amounts of exp required for each level past level 50, there needed to be a shortcut - and Abyssea's experience system provided one.

One downside to Abyssea that I will admit is that it encouraged sloppy playstyle among players. Ninja subjob, once practically a defensive requirement for all DPS, disappeared almost overnight - not because it wasn't useful, but because in Abyssea you didn't need it. Healers had practically infinite MP thanks to the superbuffs, and the DPS superbuffs meant that monsters tended to die too fast to inflict much damage anyway. Players got accustomed to playing without NIN shadows to protect them - and then often got spanked outside of Abyssea when the healers had to actually ration their resources.

The road to 99 did have another undesirable effect, but that wasn't related to Abyssea at all: Paladin became the only viable tank, and White Mage became the only viable healer. Healers gained Cure V and Cure VI, pretty much the only way to cure effectively against high-level notorious monsters, and all the other jobs that had filled in to heal up to that point did not receive anything comparable. SE greatly relaxed the requirements on Relic weapons, and this allowed Paladins with Aegis, the ultimate shield, to become commonplace. Monsters were tuned accordingly - and soon Aegis Paladins were the only tanking class that could handle the damage.

Abyssea was something completely new to FFXI. While I wouldn't necessarily want to see Abyssea in FFXIV (though, really, Diadem is suspiciously similar) this game really could use something new. It's tread the same, safe formula for long enough!

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

It always amazes me how people love and praise XI for it's challenges and hardships, and then we have XIV where nobody wants to be bothered with a grind at all; so everything gets dumbed down.

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Ya but it not the XI players QQing, it the new age gamers/kids

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

It always amazes me how people love and praise XI for it's challenges and hardships, and then we have XIV where nobody wants to be bothered with a grind at all; so everything gets dumbed down.

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I will admit, I do not take on the challenging content for XIV like I did with XI head on, though when I did things like going after my carbuncle mittens or dragon staff, these were things that I had some sort of value. I was able to hold onto them for a long time. This is where both games could learn from each other to make something in the middle.

Say for the carbuncle mittens, in the land of FFXIV you got the offering in a dungeon that's guarded by a mini boss spawned. You can either duty finder it, or ask a set of friends to help you get it real quick. You and FC mates team up and go in, gather the spawn item.

Now you need a group to spawn the NM, gather your team of 8 by the classic design of asking for help through your FC. Your friends might schedule something or you might have enough demand to make it a week night event. You grab your mittens.

Now comes the problem of you having this one item you will need or will benefit you for a long long time. Since we don't have gear switching, why not make it an ability that can be spirit bonded and added to future gear. Since prepet cost means nothing in this game, so making this something else such as Radiant Shield : + 10s duration..but that's just thinking off the top of my head.

You're right though, I sometimes think about how people, including myself, talk about XI but don't realize how good we have it in XIV.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

This game is not FFXI-2, though it very much used to be. We got FFXI-2, it was called FFXIV 1.0. It didn't work, so they tried something different. If you want to compare games, compare those two :P

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You know you're right, I was taking time to look at the 1.0 abilities yesterday and here is an example, archers had an ability that let your weapon skill become a LoS ability. That would have been wonderful to add in. Rather than spamming quick nock you could make venom bite a line of sight attack, or when blood letter is triggered. Or there was a gladiator ability that made your sword shine and deal light damage, and put blind on the enemies around it. In large pulls, a longer blind would help I the long run.

Or the MDR ability that made any mob casting stop. Say, again in a large pull or group of 3 where everyone decides to AoE at the same time..every now and then you can stop them.

But also one thing I think I notice not just from XI to XIV but 1.0 to 2.0 is the lack of debuffs (Paralyze, Blind etc...) or anything that could be seen as preventive Blind for instance causing the mobs to miss the tank so they take less damage..

See here's the thing about Ffxiv and ffxi. In ffxi the world was bigger then YOU. Yeah you became a hero but if you traveled carelessly even as the highest levels there were creatures out there who could murder you. It humbled the hell out of you. In this game, you just herp derp around without a care in the world at almost any level let alone endgame. I think these perspectives greatly influenced the games

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Originally Posted by Keramory

See here's the thing about Ffxiv and ffxi. In ffxi the world was bigger then YOU. Yeah you became a hero but if you traveled carelessly even as the highest levels there were creatures out there who could murder you. It humbled the hell out of you. In this game, you just herp derp around without a care in the world at almost any level let alone endgame. I think these perspectives greatly influenced the games

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^ this right here.

This game needs to be waaaaaay larger and waaaaay harder please. The fun about XI is lots of stuff could kill you no matter the level.

This game is not FFXI-2, though it very much used to be. We got FFXI-2, it was called FFXIV 1.0. It didn't work, so they tried something different. If you want to compare games, compare those two :P

I agree with people saying the game needs to be harder, less cookie cutter and formulaic, and have more lasting rewards, but mechanically and design wise, this is nothing like FFXI and should not have any comparison (otherwise we get mechanics forced in for nostaligia sake that are nothing like people remember)

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

This game is not FFXI-2, though it very much used to be. We got FFXI-2, it was called FFXIV 1.0. It didn't work, so they tried something different. If you want to compare games, compare those two :P

I agree with people saying the game needs to be harder, less cookie cutter and formulaic, and have more lasting rewards, but mechanically and design wise, this is nothing like FFXI and should not have any comparison (otherwise we get mechanics forced in for nostaligia sake that are nothing like people remember)

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And again, the reason it didn't work wasn't because it was FFXI-2 but because most people's computers couldn't handle the processing power required.

Edit: As an added note, the FFXIV as you know of now wouldn't even exist if legacy players never help keep 1.0 alive for everyone else.

I wouldn't mind a more dangerous world (I even called for that in some other threads), but in general, at least to me, I nearly instantly dropped FFXI after trying it, because it was NOT FUN.
It was horrible, confusing and unfair. I never met any nice and helpful person in my 2 weeks with the game and threw it into a corner full of frustration after a while.

I really like the concept FFXIV has going for it:
I can play the game like a single player FF game and then, when I'm done with the story,
I can have those hard, bonding fights where we laugh and die together with people of my chosing.
It's called a static and raid content :rolleyes:

Way better than having to trust my life with some random stranger I sure as hell won't like in the long run.

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Originally Posted by MaeIsMean

It wasn't so much that I disliked the idea of subjobs and how that whole thing worked, it's just that you couldn't be a "real" WHM without also spending an assload of time leveling up a subjob that, frankly, I didn't give a crap about at the time. It felt like a really artificial way to keep me playing.

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The same can be said for leveling 2 additional jobs to get the appropriate cross class skills in XIV.

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

It always amazes me how people love and praise XI for it's challenges and hardships, and then we have XIV where nobody wants to be bothered with a grind at all; so everything gets dumbed down.

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Challenge means something completely different between the two games though.

FFXI's challenge was primarily in how inconvenient things were, rather than the actual battle content being difficult. That's not to say that all the fights were completely devoid of difficulty, but you could reasonably expect to get through even the toughest mission battles in less than a dozen attempts. The vast, vast majority of them wouldn't take more than two or three attempts.

In FFXIV, it's not unusual to put in over a dozen attempts on a given fight in a single sitting, and not be at all surprised if you don't advance your group's overall progress by even a single phase.

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Originally Posted by Niqote

I also think people remember it with a rose tint.
One of the big drawbacks of XI was that it took you hours to do ANYTHING progressive. You were so dependant on the community.
Nothing is perfect. I remember some amazing TP burn parties, but I also remember hunting/fighting the claim bots for that 8 legged bastard for my Husbands Joyeuse.
My favourite was soloing the SMN fights. These fights seemed to make everyone heart beat increase when soloed XD

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LOL, my wife and I camped Charybdis 1 week straight to get that damnable sword! I also remember camping Shikigami Weapon for days to get Yingyang robe. Running around Ro'maeve casting spells to make an invisible NM appear in the middle of a high level zone where mobs aggroed magic was an experience!

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Originally Posted by Ibi

Challenge means something completely different between the two games though.

FFXI's challenge was primarily in how inconvenient things were, rather than the actual battle content being difficult. That's not to say that all the fights were completely devoid of difficulty, but you could reasonably expect to get through even the toughest mission battles in less than a dozen attempts. The vast, vast majority of them wouldn't take more than two or three attempts.

In FFXIV, it's not unusual to put in over a dozen attempts on a given fight in a single sitting, and not be at all surprised if you don't advance your group's overall progress by even a single phase.

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When you compare the hardest content of both games, XIV wins in my opinion. The raid content is tuned to the max, but is contained within a small bubble concealed away from the sunshine and rainbows of the rest of the game, that is the difference. I don't want them to make the sunshine and rainbows disappear, I want the hardcore bubble to be bigger, with some midcore content scattered about.

I also think that XI's difficult is bad design though, so that might skew my view.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

This game is not FFXI-2, though it very much used to be. We got FFXI-2, it was called FFXIV 1.0. It didn't work, so they tried something different.

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Uhh... No it wasn't. Was I the only person who played 1.0 anymore? The reason Ffxiv failed was because it was no more ffxi then this game was, and it was terrible. In fact what immediately murdered the game was the comparison to ffxi and how almost nothing was similar.

FFXI made me feel extremely rewarded for anything I did, because the value of nearly any item was always high and I didn't have to worry about wasting days or weeks to get a NM drop. Or something else, because you didn't have to worry about future content destroying that piece of gear.

Played FFXI for 4 years, in the early 2000's, just after it was released in North America. Ive played lots of MMO's since then, but ffxi is still the most rewarding MMO I ever played. The MMO landscape took a huge shift with the release of WoW and its huge success. You couldnt design a game like FFXI now and have it do well.

Nostalgia is an amazingly powerful phenomenon

I actually enjoyed 11 for the difficulty, from the moment you walked out the door it felt like you should have a person with you and thus my brother decided to join as well. Granted we played for a few months but I think the best we had to show for it was a level 30 and a level 10 or so of the class we wanted to really play. Granted this was sometime back, don't even remember. One the upside I guess, is suppose to be coming to Mobile so maybe? Then I notice Nexon is having a hand in it.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Making a thread like this is how you make people hate on FFXI.

Have you ever seen someone goes on FFXI forum and make a thread about how XIV is better than XI? If someone does that, they'll be called a troll, or a rude person.

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Because it's incredibly asinine to pick on older things for being old. FFV is so ugly they should've made it look like FFXV.

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

It always amazes me how people love and praise XI for it's challenges and hardships, and then we have XIV where nobody wants to be bothered with a grind at all; so everything gets dumbed down.

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That cause for most the population of XIV, it more general MMO players then XI players.

I do miss FFXI and overall I liked the 10 years I spent there more than the 3 I have spent in FFXIV. Having a challenging overworld, the need to build community relations, and the huge variety of content were all nothing short of amazing. Couple that with the feeling of accomplishment when you did manage to get high end gear that would serve you for years to come and it was beyond words.

That being said FFXI was part of my life because it worked better for that stage of my life. I was in college, working part time, staying up late with no real responsibilities that I had to keep up with. I could devote 40+ hours a week to attending Dynamis, sky, sea, Limbus (Is that what it was called), Salvage, NMs, leveling, crafting and a myriad of other activities because I had that kind of time. Now-days my gaming time is much more constrained between family and work and I can't stay up until 4:30 in the morning on a Tuesday camping an NM. I need to be able to get in for a few hours, make some progress and get back out again. FFXIV is the MMO that I need to fit the stage of my life right now.

Ultimately, it seems to me that FFXIV has evolved from FFXI to serve its customer base from 14 years ago. It is the natural progression of life that your free time becomes more constricted the older you get and FFXIV now meets those requirements so I'm thankful for it.

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Originally Posted by Blackcanary

Is there still a great community in FFXI? I haven't been back there in so long as it is I don't think my Imac can run it so i will never get a chance to replay it.
I also remember when i went in to Dunes it was empty as hell.
I think with so many MMORPGs out now trying to go back to that game would be like walking through a desert. It would be a complete wasteland.

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I checked out the free login campaign they had on Cerberus and the entire server only had 500 people playing. As I was running through Sandy I think I saw one other person.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

This game is not FFXI-2, though it very much used to be. We got FFXI-2, it was called FFXIV 1.0. It didn't work, so they tried something different. If you want to compare games, compare those two :P

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Will people stop saying this? 1.0 did not fail cause it was XI-2, it failed cause it was a unfinished game that ran horrible.

13 years ffxi vet I loved that game but ffxiv is its own game can't change the way it is. Best to do is ask for a ffxi - 2 not come to ffxiv and say how great ffxi was.

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

the glorious FFXI or otherwise known as ppl mistake massive time investment for a difficulty

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So true when Dynamis came out. I collected one set of red mage gear (duelist). Two runs a week three hours a run. But closer to five making sure everyone was organized and "No you can't come as THF instead of BLM we need BLMs not your stupid pokey TH knife." Then after listening and explaining to people why so and so got what item. So minimum three hours, twice a week, for 54 weeks to complete one set.

Does that sound fun? Let us not forget the other drops that you competed against a whole server that had one drop at less then 5% twice a week. Does that also sound fun?

Was the social aspect much better yes. But we would need to have every server much fuller and no cross server play. WoW was way more casual then 11 and had decent server communities till cross server play meant, "Screw you all I will never see you again".

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Originally Posted by KenshinHimura

13 years ffxi vet I loved that game but ffxiv is its own game can't change the way it is. Best to do is ask for a ffxi - 2 not come to ffxiv and say how great ffxi was.

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played XI hardcore for 6 years. i have no interest in an FFXI-2, i would play the hell out of an offline FFXI though with Trust party members to go through the story and quests.

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Originally Posted by Tolmos

Nostalgia is an amazingly powerful phenomenon

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The weakest argument against people's enjoyment of a different kind of game is phenomenal.

I think people have rose tinted glasses about the efficacy of the rose tinted glasses speach.

Don't need a XI-2 but the game could use a stronger community and not just enter DF not say anything do the run exit never seen those people again. XIV has a friendlist but for the most part it like gil it pretty useless most the time.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Will people stop saying this? 1.0 did not fail cause it was XI-2, it failed cause it was a unfinished game that ran horrible.

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That's not actually true. There was plenty besides the glitches and performance issues that was heavily criticized about 1.0. Everything from the heavy emphasis on Levequests, the EXP limits (and levequest limits), the extremely poorly designed UI, the slower combat, the lack of direction, and more was heavily criticized about the game on release. Just looking at some of the older reviews of 1.0 (it had a 49 on metacritic: http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/fi...asy-xiv-online ) complain about far more than simply the performance issues/bugs...although there are certainly many complaints about that. Much of the both player and critics disliked the heavy amount of grinding, focusing on killing random mobs and levequests over dungeons and the like. While some of that was improved with patches, it was still never going to be a great success. They had already lost faith in the gaming community. A Realm Reborn being significantly more successful is due to more than just it being "more performance friendly and less buggy". From a game design perspective, it was appealing to far more players.

Back on topic, I can certainly understand the idea. FFXI DID do a much better job at forming a community. The gameplay from a fundamental level required players to group up, and that forced players to make relationship quickly. It also proved significantly less convenient for many to play. If you couldn't get a group up quickly, that might be all you spent your night on. It was a blessing and a curse. Considering my busy work schedule, FFXIV is considerably more convenient. I also much prefer grinding dungeons to random monsters out in the field, but your mileage may vary on that one.

That said, there are certainly improvements that could made to FFXIV to make being social easier. Perhaps more "global" linkshells could be established for each server. For example, there might be a large, server wide crafting linkshell that is accessible through the UI. If every player had access to it, it would be easier to find people to chat with. With a good number of those, chatting with others might be easier. Once again though, designing "social" content can be exceedingly difficult. It's tough to know what will work for people.

As wonderful as XI may sound, I will never understand it's greatness because I've never played the game nor knew of it's existence until I started playing XIV.

I liked FFXI as much as anyone else for the year and a half I played it. Making FFXIV into FFXI is an awful idea. You just have to look at what you deal with with premature hunt pulls and pf/df ex primals to get an idea of how miserable bringing some of those FFXI elements back would be. Making the game more "difficult" "dangerous" or time-consuming won't suddenly improve the community.

Nostalgia is a helluva drug.