What class needs a buff or nerf?

Also nerfing jobs is not the way to go about it like they have done. Other things can be tweaked instead of doing so.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

Bard really should have had a Ley Lines-type system http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Rain-of-Death

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Careful what you wish for, as mechanics seem to follow wherever leylines is placed no matter were, lol

I do however agree with your points

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WM or not BRD is still the easiest class to play

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As if Bards don't have to carefully plan cooldowns, constantly watch for and correctly react to BL procs, and aren't beholden to an 18s timer that knocks them for hundreds of potency if they mess up. Maybe if you're okay just doing passable damage that people will let you get away with you can just naively do whatever, but maximization on BRD isn't substantially easier than it is for MCH or any other job.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

Bard really should have had a Ley Lines-type system instead of importing a limitation directly from Machinist with none of the interesting mechanics to work around said limitations.

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You say you want this, but you don't want this. And upon reading your description of the whole standing still to do more damage thing, we really already have that. WM can be instantly turned on and off with only a short cd before turning off a second time, so plan your movement accordingly. Also feint is a skill if you are really concerned about double-weaving ogcd skills and don't have an ss proc!

I understand you don't like WM, but your pseudo-ley lines example wouldn't do much to change it other than eliminate a simple button press to turn off and on WM. As to the rest of your proposed changes, most of it is turning bard into machinist without wildfire. You can just play machinist, you know! I play both as well, especially since gear is shared now aside from weapons.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way, specifically with it's first two combo shots, the left hand on the character looks so awkward.

I wish they had used a pose for Mch like the elvaan from XI.

http://www.ffcompendium.com/jobimage...raelvaan-c.jpg

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http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/im...Machinist2.jpg

Also it makes more sense to have your gun held down until you shoot. It would look silly running with your arm like that. A lot of the animations for MCH are similar to Elvaan's from FFXI already.

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Originally Posted by Bow_Arrow

I think MCH is too much overpowered.
Especially in A6S and A7S, MCH do much better than other DPS excluding MNK.

Does anybody else think that MCH needs a nerf?
(or, other DPS needs a buff)

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You mean are we actually worth a damn now? If you are an equally skilled/geared MCH against the 3 melee/caster DPS, you will ultimately be behind them by the end of the fight. Of course depending on the fight also. MCH have arguably the highest burst in the game (Wildfire), and then its all sustaining your DPS from there. RNG also being a heavy factor on where our DPS lies.

People have been requesting jobs like MCH and BRD better catch up to melee/caster in terms of DPS, and now that we are in that state, now some people want us back to being way behind.

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Also, WM is never going away. Its a thing for BRD's now. Instead of some of you wanting it to completely go away, why not offer criticism on how you can make the system work. WM is clunky, but it can be great if proper feedback is given to it.

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Originally Posted by AxelDH

Machinists don't have to keep mashing buttons between casts for random bloodletter procs. They don't have as many issues with clashing, like when Empyreal Arrow, Bloodletter and Miserys End all come off cooldown/proc at the same time, and you don't know which to use first!

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This can be a stressful occurrence but it doesn't have to be! Simply put: He who hesitates is lost. Hit the first one you see for the most part, because hitting something is better than hitting anything else late. I believe probably the standard choice is me>bl>empy. I could be wrong but emp will clip into your next gcd by a small fraction of a second at least with my crappy sksp. Someone correct me.

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Originally Posted by AxelDH

I'd definitely say that the difference in difficulty between the 2 classes isn't enough to justify the current gap in their DPS performance!

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While I don't really want to say that the current difference in damage is really wide enough, I could get onboard with most of this statement.

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I could be wrong but emp will clip into your next gcd by a small fraction of a second at least with my crappy sksp. Someone correct me.

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Emp clips into your next GCD whether you weave something else with it or not. A good rule of thumb is to double up on BL+ME, or EA+BL unless BL procs during EA in which case you sit on it. BL+SW is usually also okay but sometimes you don't need to rush SW. Sometimes depending on the fight and the point in the fight you might need to be willing to IR+BL. Or to force Flaming Arrow at all costs. Regardless you'd ideally like to avoid triple-weaves (or most non-Barrage doubles with EA) as they incur a ~0.75s penalty instead of a ~0.5s one. But sometimes you just have to. Plan plan plan.

(To be clear I did mean without weaving an extra attack after Emp like you indicated, Sana)

So nobody really has the sksp to have a non-clip emp on a hardcast weaponskill during WM (obv. meaning excluding ss proc or feint). Good to know. qq my sksp ;-; Well... It used to be in the 400s.

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Originally Posted by Eydir

Just give Cleric Stance an "accuracy boost" finally like with the tank stances. Give it when activated an increased chance to hit. That's the buff I want to see since I don't see the return of accuracy in healer gear except when melded into.

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This would open up 3 slots on your gear(5% accuracy off of 600 is 30). Everything else would still be accuracy melded. Main healers would still miss. Tanks got a bonus 5% chance to hit, because they have to hit from in front, instead of the lower accuracy cap from the rear. Tanks don't really get free accuracy. In dps stance they still need to reach accuracy caps, as everyone else and from the front they still have to stack more.

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Originally Posted by Tsilyi

(To be clear I did mean without weaving an extra attack after Emp like you indicated, Sana)

So nobody really has the sksp to have a non-clip emp on a hardcast weaponskill during WM (obv. meaning excluding ss proc or feint). Good to know. qq my sksp ;-; Well... It used to be in the 400s.

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To bring it to an extreme, say your GCD somehow drops to 2.00s (w/ the help of an AST or something). Your cast time isn't reduced by the full .5s, only a portion of it. I'm not sure if it's two-thirds or 60%, but let's say the latter. Now your cast is 1.2s, and your oGCD window is 0.8s. Still can't fit an EA, and EA still clips 20% of a GCD.

Someone mentioned that Blood Weapon should be useable in Grit. I agree, plus i would like some kind of HP restoration outside of grit. Modyfying blood weapon so it restores alos a little bit of hp? Like 2% per hit? You would restore roughly 20% hp outside of grit. i think it would be fair.

PLD can cast clemency in sword oath, making tanking light-busters much comfortable to tank outside shield oath,
WAR has insta Defiance access and only 10 sec penalty on that.
DRK has to use Souleater at least 2 times in a row with Dark Arts of course, to make it comparable to 1200 potency heal of above tanks. That's pretty unfair, escpecially Grit costs shitton mana (as for a DRK 1389 mana is just a lot, escpecially that we loose mana over time).

But i quess 4.0 will bring one stance for DRK, i don't believe Blood Weapon is supposed to be our timed dps stance.
Actually DRK skill palette looks like it was designed for one more stance filling the spot for those skills/effects unable to be used in grit/no-grit.

OUCH!
i am in dps section. Uh, oh. think, yuni, think...

Oh yes, Increasing ninja death blossom is a bit pointless, since doton/katon + death blossom do the job pretty nicely, especially (that's my 3rd 'especially' in here, that starts to sound weird >.>) with invigorate.
So instead i would stay by increasing mudra damage or think about reducing mudra time to 16 sec. that would be a huge (maybe too huge) dps boost making up for all those screwed mechanics with all debuffs you need to use in exchange for Aeolian Edge.

Really, i would appreciate some additional 4 seconds to dancing edge and shadow fang...

yeah the enmity was a partial joke, is getting easier with better gear and melds. I do think that bloodweapon shouldnt be locked from grit, or if it has to be, dark mind and dark dance shouldnt be locked into darkness. idk if this counts as a buff maybe qol.

I agree Nin needs more aoe, just a little boost

The classes that need a buff are:

ninja: aoe is garbage, (being fixed in 3.3) single target could use a slight buff, they are mainly a utility class though.
bard: horrible single target, mediocre aoe (better than nin) utility is almost useless with the content being steamrolled at the end of this patch.
Drk: Bloodweapon is usually useless because it can't be used with grit, really bad design for blood weapon.

those are all the problems I honestly see right now, things aren't that bad, but these issues need correcting, like, yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

Drk: Bloodweapon is usually useless because it can't be used with grit, really bad design for blood weapon.

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...
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Hmmm...
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WHAT?!
Usually useless?!

What are you, casul?!

Don't tell me you are sitting in grit whole fight, regardless of raid/challenge/trial.

Indeed if you need to take Tank-buster on yourself, you use grit.
As well as in opening, to create some hate.
But sitting in grit for a longer time is vicious for you mp pool, so it's absolutely not advised!

While i understand there are fights, when either your item level or healers force you to use grit more often,
you can't say Blood Weapon is usually useless. It is actually only one offensive buff we have (Dark Arts is not a buff, it's a must), that has not only savage TP reduction, but also savage Skill speed increase and savage mp refresh. It is almost a stance itself, thats why i had doubts if we get offensive stance at all! This skill is Savage!

BW isn't useless for the most part. Kind of pedantic to lock it out of Grit though. Just like it's pedantic to lock us out of MP battery skills like Mage's Ballad to have artificial skill ceilings for MP management and gimping a support class's support options. One of the few fights you probably won't have BW is final boss in Vault. Because that guy is mean.

If anything I want to see something happen with DRK in general. It is too reliant on it's healer to get anything done. Plus I hate Living Dead. And the fact all it's progressional skills just work against each other.

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Originally Posted by Yuni_Queen

...
...
Hmmm...
...
...
WHAT?!
Usually useless?!

What are you, casul?!

Don't tell me you are sitting in grit whole fight, regardless of raid/challenge/trial.

Indeed if you need to take Tank-buster on yourself, you use grit.
As well as in opening, to create some hate.
But sitting in grit for a longer time is vicious for you mp pool, so it's absolutely not advised!

!

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I'd like to see you hold agro against my blm for more than 1 second without being in grit, I pull off experienced tanks IN GRIT, so don't tell people to not use their tank stance, I don't feel like tanking for you thanks very much.

it isnt useless, but it really shouldnt be locked out of tank stance, seriously

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

Drk: Bloodweapon is usually useless because it can't be used with grit, really bad design for blood weapon.

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Pardon my ignorance since I don't really dabble with this games mechanics that much but I thought blood weapon was a good off tank skill for bosses and raids keeps your MP up while you spam your Dark Arts stuff, I'm paranoid that I've been playing it wrong and giving everyone a hard time. :c

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Originally Posted by Yasuhiro

Pardon my ignorance since I don't really dabble with this games mechanics that much but I thought blood weapon was a good off tank skill for bosses and raids keeps your MP up while you spam your Dark Arts stuff, I'm paranoid that I've been playing it wrong and giving everyone a hard time. :c

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Thats fine if youre not supposed to use/spam dark arts while in grit also, but you do

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

I'd like to see you hold agro against my blm for more than 1 second without being in grit, I pull off experienced tanks IN GRIT, so don't tell people to not use their tank stance, I don't feel like tanking for you thanks very much.

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Except Yuni said to pull in grit tho to establish hate.
If you're still pulling hate even if they are in grit, then either you are not using quelling or the tanks you describe are not as experienced as you make out.
As long as I quell pre-pull, I can go through a fully buffed opener as BLM and our drk will hold hate. if he see I'm close to taking aggro, he'll know he needs to up his hate as I won't be pulling my punches

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

I'd like to see you hold agro against my blm for more than 1 second without being in grit, I pull off experienced tanks IN GRIT, so don't tell people to not use their tank stance, I don't feel like tanking for you thanks very much.

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

Except Yuni said to pull in grit tho to establish hate

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No problem. No, really, i am not having problems with tanking against BLMs that cast 2nd fire IVs before i even end power slash. And i was playing with some 1700-1800 pumping BLMs.
Also, Randy managed to notice as well, you do not read carefully. However that could be a simple oversight, so no malice.
I am glad you are good dps pulling hate off experienced DRKs, but you know, if you say Blood Weapon is usually useless, i doubt if you see the difference between good DRK and bad DRK :P
I know very experienced DRKs, that use plunge rather than unmend to pull stuff, and indeed, i woudn't say, that experience gives playing-class-skills.

So no. Myth Busted.

I am glad you woudn't tank for me, i quess i would get cancer. Thank you.

Well in Adventica's defence i also pull hate buuut it may be the cause of bad tanks, not sure.
My opener is really hard on tanks though, lol
And yes Quelling Strikes> use it

edit: also Bard aoe is not "useless" like some perceive, those that say so are just not very good.
Aoe buff is not what Bard needs.

[QUOTE=Yuni_Queen;3695319]
I know very experienced DRKs, that use plunge rather than unmend to pull stuff, and indeed, i woudn't say, that experience gives playing-class-skills.



i tend to pop unmend and immediaely plunge before it even hits, tbh is this acceptable?

you forgot [/QUOTE]. Just cosmetic things.

If you want to squeeze as much dps as you can out of that DRK, you would like to wait for slashing debuff and/or Trick Attack and/or MCH's debuff.
Thou using unmend > plunge is natural and absolutely fine.
Until Boss first attack is Cone AoE to the MT, then it's not advised to use plunge becuase of that 0.8 delay after usage.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

They should just pull a lame and make Death Blossom do 150 Potency and just make it a Ring of Thorns without the need for HT. And I doubt any DRG worth their lance uses ring of thorns when Doom Spike is bettah.

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150 pot would be quite an insane buff and definitely better than DRG. IF DRGs could use an uncomboed RoT for 150 pot they would use it over Doomspike because its far cheaper (120TP for 150 pot vs 160 for 160).

If you keep in mind the 5% bigger dps boost from poisons, the 15% higher attack speed plus the addional 30-45 potency ticks from Ninjutsu, you cant really buff deathblossom higher than 120 pot. Of course its not out of the question that they reduce the tp costs of DRG AOE.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

150 pot would be quite an insane buff and definitely better than DRG. IF DRGs could use an uncomboed RoT for 150 pot they would use it over Doomspike because its far cheaper (120TP for 150 pot vs 160 for 160).

If you keep in mind the 5% bigger dps boost from poisons, the 15% higher attack speed plus the addional 30-45 potency ticks from Ninjutsu, you cant really buff deathblossom higher than 120 pot. Of course its not out of the question that they reduce the tp costs of DRG AOE.

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Ninja AoE is ass though. If anything at least make Mug steal shit. Over the year I've played it's only happened twice.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Ninja AoE is ass though. If anything at least make Mug steal shit. Over the year I've played it's only happened twice.

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Its not nearly as bad as people claim it to be, unless you are saying DRG aoe is bad too (which its not). You cant just buff it by almost 50% and think that thats balanced.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

Its not nearly as bad as people claim it to be, unless you are saying DRG aoe is bad too (which its not). You cant just buff it by almost 50% and think that thats balanced.

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As far as AoE is concerned Doom Spike will always be better then HT+RoT. Especially if you know the basics of aiming attacks. As far as Ninja is concerned unless it's a huge pull if you have 3 or less it's far better to double Katon over Katon > Crit City Doton > Death Blossom which 4 or more you should do.

Not nearly is bad is still bad.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

As far as AoE is concerned Doom Spike will always be better then HT+RoT.

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It is because RoT needs to be comboed is where i am getting at. If it wouldnt need to be comboed everyone would go for RoT because its only 120 TP. So you cant really say that 150 pot deathblossom would be worse than DRG aoe because doomspike is better than RoT.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

Bard really should have had a Ley Lines-type system instead of importing a limitation directly from Machinist with none of the interesting mechanics to work around said limitations. It's actually really disgusting how well designed Gauss Barrel is for Machinist, and how poorly designed Minuet was for Bards in comparison. I really can't call it anything other than a poorly thought out copy-paste job in the name of balance.

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I think they should have given the bard more songs. How about the healing song your teacher has in the level 50 quest? How about also a song that boosts physical DPS (like the MCH). There could be other songs too. I like songs...that's why Bard is fun. Their weird/niche things nobody else can do to help out. It's also why I liked Shaman and their Totems in WoW...bloodlust and random little buffs.... More songs please.

Yeah getting tired of the NPC only shit.

Thamaturges and Conjurers have access to Breakga and Tornado.

Salt.

Oh, I missed the announcement for the ninja aoe buff in 3.3 .
Where can I read it?

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Yeah getting tired of the NPC only shit.

Thamaturges and Conjurers have access to Breakga and Tornado.

Salt.

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seriously i wouldve taken drainstrikes over blood of the dragon any day. Why npcs got the best stuff?

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Originally Posted by Krissey

I think they should have given the bard more songs..

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I believe you mean these songs:
Song 1
Song 2
Song 3

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Originally Posted by Yeol

I believe you mean these songs:
Song 1
Song 2
Song 3

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Actually, as a bard main who enjoys playing bard the way it is now, I was kind of hoping this expansion would bring more bard support and more songs while making Machinist more of a pure dps ranged class instead of another support class. These could have been interesting ideas potentially for songs.

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Originally Posted by Normalo

Oh, I missed the announcement for the ninja aoe buff in 3.3 .
Where can I read it?

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I would also like to know as all i have seen is Bard and Ninja getting a buff but no mention of what exactly

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Originally Posted by Maero

I would also like to know as all i have seen is Bard and Ninja getting a buff but no mention of what exactly

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I believe they mentioned it in the last live letter where they also announced the Yo-kai Watch collab event.

Ok cool thanks.
Nin aoe buff is strongly needed.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

I believe you mean these songs:
Song 1
Song 2
Song 3

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Yes exactly. Why can't our bards use that? WTF.

I feel Monk's still need more. Our lack of utility is pretty apparent. Hell DRG isn't far behind us.

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Originally Posted by Morzy

I feel Monk's still need more. Our lack of utility is pretty apparent. Hell DRG isn't far behind us.

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Well to be fair BLM still does more damage than DRG.