Issue With End Game Raiding

Following adjustments to AS6, Midas overall doesn't largely feel notably more difficult than the three Coils of Bahamut were in ARR. It's about where they wanted it—in between Second Coil and Final Coil in difficulty. All in all, that's a pretty good sweet spot.

Regarding recruitment, though, the game's still feeling the aftermath of the damage done by Gordias, and it's going to take time for each server to build up a sizable raiding community again. From what I can tell on my server, there are a ton of statics looking for BRD/MCH, and that bottleneck is probably really giving the scene here trouble. Even tanks seem to be more common than BRD/MCH these days, and I'm sure healers are more prolific than that.

I definitely think it's worth trying to form your own group if you're having trouble slipping into one, though. I know it can suck to backpedal a bit, but it might be worth it in the long term, especially if you can form a group with folks who you're already familiar with.

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

Story mode works for what it is so dont even think about trying to make it 'harder'. If you can't put in the effort for savage then you just dont raid. Simple. As I said in the bit you quoted this isn't WoW.

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Again, that's the problem. There is no other raid content that isn't savage difficulty (which wasn't the case for coil days). What story mode is doing right now is an entirely different purpose of what coil (or even EX trials) accomplished, and the introduction of story mode and savage mode is missing that purpose (and EX trials are far/few inbetween).

There are groups (and I personally know a few at least on my realm) that have started and cleared during FCoB days, most of them before echo. They wanted to get their group together ahead of time and break into raiding so they're familiar with each other going into 3.0's raiding content. You can't honestly say that normal/story mode is tuned as a static content, so the next one up is savage mode. Did raiding in FFXIV suddenly become something that isn't for them over the course of an expansion, and was it even a good choice at that considering what Gordias had accomplished with the raiding community/population.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Again, that's the problem. There is no other raid content that isn't savage difficulty (which wasn't the case for coil days). What story mode is doing right now is an entirely different purpose of what coil (or even EX trials) accomplished, and the introduction of story mode and savage mode is missing that purpose (and EX trials are far/few inbetween).

There are groups (and I personally know a few at least on my realm) that have started and cleared during FCoB days, most of them before echo. They wanted to get their group together ahead of time and break into raiding so they're familiar with each other going into 3.0's raiding content. You can't honestly say that normal/story mode is tuned as a static content, so the next one up is savage mode. Did raiding in FFXIV suddenly something that isn't for them over the course of an expansion, and was it even a good choice at that considering what Gordias had accomplished with the raiding community/population.

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Well "savage" would have to be either Coil difficulty or the current savage difficulty. There is no way the devs are going to put resources into making 3 difficulties of the same raid or get rid of one of the most popular PvE modes in the game (normal Alex). Coil may be considered a nice in-between difficulty for statics, but the truth is it wasn't that popular back in the day. Only about 10% of players cleared it in JP realms and a disappointing 0.1%-4.8% cleared in NA/EU realms. Normal mode, or easy mode as some like to call it, is here to stay because people actually play it. And going by the responses to AS6 nerfs I don't think raiders would be too happy to have all of savage mode lowered to Coil standards.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

...but the truth is it wasn't that popular back in the day. Only about 10% of players cleared it in JP realms and a disappointing 0.1%-4.8% cleared in NA/EU realms. Normal mode, or easy mode as some like to call it, is here to stay because people actually play it. And going by the responses to AS6 nerfs I don't think raiders would be too happy to have all of savage mode lowered to Coil standards.

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The numbers you linked date back way before any nerfs have been done. Even then, players doing the content isn't a good metric on whether or not it's a good design (FATEs and diadem when i210 was the cap being an example of this). When you tune it to something like Normal/story mode, that's just as about as meaningful as sayng "This % of players completed the MSQ"

And in regards to your bolded post, the players haven't responded very well either to the design of difficulty in gordias (whether it was too difficult or too steep of a slope one way or another), I'd think it's a bigger concern if the raiding population has dwindled to the point that some servers are lacking a player pool for raiding to begin with. Going by responses, it's been a mixed reaction which is the case for almost any change. However, it is too soon to call out on any consequences to the player population as a result of it (and if it's even worth the risk at this point after goridas)

I will give you a very simple answer on how to fix raiding for majority of ppls enjoyment..
Make it easier, the reason why Final Coil was the best was because of the story, encounters, and the difficulty. Ask yourself one thing, is it really worth all the stress to raid content for 2-3 months and when you finally clear you get to do it all over again 3-4 months later. Make it easier so ppl can clear in about 1 month and actually can afford to get loot for alts while the gear is still relevant and not just for glamour. Don't bother telling me to find very talented ppl, its about playing the game stress free and for fun tbh. If you want to cater to the hardcore ppl make something similar to savage second coil where you give them a goblin mount if they clear it or w/e. Point is make it easier so more ppl can enjoy it. Attack my opinion however you want, I believe in what I said and I think it is a solution to current raiding issues in the game.

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Originally Posted by Awful

I've only cleared A5S and I can empathize I used to be a hardcore raider in 2.0 and now I can barely get anyone from my static consistently on. It really sucks and I'm in the same boat do I keep playing or just quit? It's honestly just a headache to get everyone on and when they do its 1 cycle and we're done till before reset. The raiding needs to change that's for sure but there's not many ideas left that hasn't already been said.

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Then replace the people who never come. Honestly I was on same situation on 3.0-3.1 patch. Instead of quitting I kept looking for people who actually commit until I found a decent group.

And its just like you said. If it's easy people will have the 4 bosses on farm on first week and then its login, clear in 1-2hours and logout for the rest of week. The actual fun about savage is the learning process and actually managing to clear it eventually.

Tbh only way I'd want savage to be primal ex dificulty is if they released new raid every 2 months to compensate for the factor of being easy.

But yeah I do agree that there could be a dificulty between savage and normal mode for the average people who don't have time yet want to raid. While its not the perfect solution, it would at least give them something to do.
Or maybe get square to break away from weekly reward system so that people can actually do savage on party finder when they're free. At the moment this system prevents people from raiding outside of their premade schedules. A5S is same dificulty as sepiroth for instance. Yet people do sepiroth on pf all the time.

i think the core of the trouble is not about the difficulty, but the lack of choice in terms of content.
i don't feel make a 4 man version of the current raid is an answer too... but really a new form of endgame tailored for a team of 4 player that will recquire gears, skill and teamplay for complete it. it will have 2 advantage:

- first allows the people that don't have a static to create smaller groups (4 person is easier to gather) for enjoy challenging AND rewarding content. (pharos sirus vanilla wasn't hard, simply too much tuned for an ilevel people had not anymore 55-60 when most people was 80+).
- Second and that the most important, allows a smoother progression from a form at 4 player to 8 player, since 2 group of 4 can create easily a static.

but and i'm serious there, it must'nt reward less than raid, if the challenge is on par with the raid, it need to give the same reward. gather 4 or 8 person must'nt be counted into the difficulty of a raid, why? because people have life outside the game and can't always have the time or the connection for do raid at 8 or more. the trouble with FF14 endgame is the lack of choice... we can't customize our character and the item we have acces per tier are always same... without the mirage system we will all look the same. and i feel the game need to gain some choice in terms of what item we can earn.

give an alternative to the raid is not meaning to kill the raid. understand me, people that haven't any static will have a content tailored for them, but that don't means that static can't do this content too. the dev need to stop to try to force us to play only one jobs (two at best). ask us to count 11 week for equip a whole jobs is an error that need to be adressed. especially with the futur expansion (4.x that will probably announced at the fanfest later this years.) that will add more jobs to play. they need to move away from wow schema and create them own model.

they still need to deliver raid at 8, it's a given, but i feel they need to deliver a 4 man challenging content on par with the savage, for allows smaller group to not feel left out. and maybe allows people with wierd schedule to enjoy the game they love.

how do it? i have said it countless time... procedural generation, a la rogue like... the challenge will be into the adaptibility of the group. it can take the form of a sort of horde mode... or better randomized dungeon.
the best with this sort of content, it's the replayability. what lack the endgame of ff14, the loot is not replayability.

this sort of content can bring what ff14 lack and more important need the most. do it must be bring for the 3.X? no it's impossible this sort of content need a lot of time and work for be made, but i feel it need to come with the 4.X and must be one of the priority actually.

because what FF14 lack is choice into the endgame. we did tell you with the release of the 3.x content so far that we don't want a same model than the V2...you need to take risk and work on true new type of content for everyone, not only a small part of the community.

ps: and i hope someone will pass this message to Yoshi-P: tell the high up to give you more people for work on FF14... it's nice to invest soo much in FF15... but soo far you have more of 4Millions people already paying for a service that need more hand for it.

Iv been playing since early access.... Raided coil.... And did sephirot got my wep and never raided again

Before i use to be a hardcore raider in wow, but in ffxiv i dont even attempt to raid due to how the system works and this what happens

U will raid until ur blue in the face, after a month or 2 or 3 that effort shatters as same ilvl gear is being offered via tomestones then u be raiding for optimal stats or a +5 ilvl weapon

There is no reason to raid at all due to how often gear is passed down to please the playerbase that dont even step foot into raids

Me personally i would just remove 8man raids and make content for savage mode 4man which u have shorter time to complete and u get unique armor and weapons etc even minion/mounts for completing it also special items for glamours/mounts

These modes will have no story and be for players that want a challenge and play with friends etc but they are hard and challenging

Tbh if 4 man raid exists, mechanisms will have to be more complex due to half chance failing as less people = less chance single mistake. And rewards would need to be half of normal raid (as 4 ppl rolling instead of 8).

With these two factors I agree.

Having two raids would be interesting. (4man and 8man) and at same time would make a lot people at least be able to do one of them. (Since it's a lot easier to find 4 people).


A small suggestion would be: keep raid gear from 8man savage, make more lore upgrades drop from 4man. This would make upgrading hard but easier than 8man savage(I refuse to belive a 4 man raid can be as complex as 8man), but if you wanted bis youd have to do 8man savage aswell. Solves problem.

- tomestone
This is a serious old fashion way to get gear which is very boring to do especially running expert back to back for a 450 cap each week, no one likes this system and at less half of the playerbase just give up on the long grind once capped they logout and come back the following week

- gear choice
This is a serious problem at the max ilvl u have 2 gear choices only for each slot which only secondary stats is effective here, so gear customisation is none existant

- playerbase
As people have said FFXIV have mostly mature player base so its hard to get a static together to do raiding content and as a mature player we tend to look for the quickest way to get things done as IRL schedules effects our game iv been through a lot of statics in coil and 70% of the problems was due to players and there out of game lives

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Originally Posted by Alexftw

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Guess u never done challenge mode in WOW ... That was seriously hard and was 5man content with a time attack and everything would obliterate u if u was not careful

So many times i died doing challenge mode and this is before reaching the first boss... They also scaled down ur ilvl and controlled ur gear stat points etc

But it was fun and sooo rewarding, going around with challenge mode armor and phoenix hawk mount , i felt sooo damn epic and felt like i accomplish something others could not do :D

So yes 4man content can be harder then 8man raid if they put there mind and resources into it

You're right, there is a diminishing amount of veterans around to raid. And you're also correct there aren't many new players to take their place...because those veterans don't want anything to do with new players. New players don't get taught fights, or even just pointers and tips from the experienced ones. They all just stay in their little cliques, so when someone leaves for whatever reason it's hardly surprising there is only a small amount of replacements coming through. No sympy.

Sorry OP, but I am 100% against flex raiding. That didn't bold so well in WoW and it was invented because normal raids were 10 - 25 man. 8 people is not difficult to find and it seems that your problem is that White Mage is a dime a dozen. I am sorry you can't find a group. It does suck when you want to raid, but you can't find anyone. Some times you will have to switch classes and start all over again to get a group. It is the nature of the beast. I do agree that there should be another tier added. It seems that Savage is too difficult for many raiders and groups break because the raids demand perfection and are very unforgiving when one player dies or makes a mistake. It is cool to conquer a mountain, but it really wears a team out if they keep failing hours on end on one boss every week. I hope you do find a group soon!

the point is not about raid at 8 must be take out, but we must have an alternative to raid. it will serve to the raid since it will offer them more option. the point is raid must'nt be the only true endgame content and token can't make the cut either.
the raid 8 is good for you, that nice and i hope they will deliver more and more raid for you. however, not everyone have time or friend for make a static and the number show it, less of 10% of the community do the savage, meanins about 90% of the community have no true endgame for them.

Solution to this fix: create Trust NPC

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

The 4/8/24 lockdown is but a symptom.

No flexibility in itemization plus a pathological fear of imbalance means a every piece of content requires a strict DPS assembly line quota. Different BGM will play, different colored lights and floating markers will flash, but you are ultimately doing a familiar dance. We will never see Salvage, Dynamis, Limbus or any content with logistical complexity until the itemization moves away from bigger numbers on the same stats.

Once the itemization becomes more diverse, the content will follow suit.

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You're vastly overselling the importance of gear in Salvage, Dynamis, and Limbus.

You could have cleared all three events in groups equipped with nothing beyond the sets you could purchase with assault points (Amir, Pahluwan, and Yigit sets), and items of equivalent stat complexity in your other equipment slots, and those have no more variety in terms of stats than what we're getting in FFXIV.

I think you're also overselling the complexity of the events.

Outside of their final bosses, Limbus and Dynamis especially were very simplistic in nature. Most or all of FFXIV's 24-man raid bosses could rival the Dynamis bosses, with the potential exception of the Shadow Lord, in terms of complexity. Heck, even four-man leveling dungeons are more complex than 95% of Dynamis.

More and more groups are using "Deadly Boss Mod"...
Why do players think they cant do it without such tools?
What exactly is different to Coil where players did not need those tools?

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

What exactly is different to Coil where players did not need those tools?

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Fights in Coil were generally simpler in terms of mechanics. I'll acknowledge that it's likely a weak correlation at best, but it's not a surprise that Solitude's guide to T9 is 4,109 words but their guide to A8S is more than double that at 9,616 words.

It's even more true if you compare the earlier turns in Coil to the earlier sections of Alexander Savage.

Additionally, I suspect that the use of external tools are considerably more common now than they were in 2.x, as is the availability of the information to configure things to provide DBM-style warnings. Some of the popular guides for Midas Savage even include things you can copy-paste directly into the external tools to give you the warnings; I don't recall that kind of thing being included in guides for Coil.

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

Why do players think they cant do it without such tools?

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Oh they can - but why should they? It's like not taking an item upgrade because you should be able to clear even without it, or not using buff food on principle because your stats should suffice as they are.

If the tools are there and SE isn't gonna do anything about them, there's no reason not to use them to gain an advantage. In the end, the whole thing really goes back to the parsing debate, because that's where the data for such tools comes from.

Like it has been said, end game for most is the weekly Alex (normal) turn ins and the occasional Trial (Ex) which are becoming increasingly burdensome. If you take into account that Alex Midas is the second iteration of the same formula as its predecessor we end up with a non-savage raiding community that is as equally disinterested and fatigued as their counterparts.

I think the solution is to add content which builds FC communities, such as XI's sky/sea end game. For those unfamiliar with those, its content requiring large scale collaboration over time (unlike the Diadem) to ultimately spawn a super boss.

i don't think sky/sea endgame is the solution, it's really the lack of group content endgame that is the trouble. the whole progression is in pyramid with the raid savage at the top... and i feel it's an error.

ps: and add another end game content, don't make the raid irrevelant, if you count on the fact that a bit less of 10% is doing savage (maybe even less) i do feel it's time to add more choice, for allows more people to have a endgame tailored to them taste. grind/token is not a endgame... barely a band aid (the relic is not a endgame content simply a sick joke)

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

i don't think sky/sea endgame is the solution, it's really the lack of group content endgame that is the trouble. the whole progression is in pyramid with the raid savage at the top... and i feel it's an error.

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Well the problem is the complexity of being able to take part in 8-person static progression, adding more 8 man content so that Alex savage has a brother and sister is only adding more of the same. I don't mean for sky/sea to substitute current endgame, but some variety is needed.

Edit: I just saw that you meant any group size and not solely 8 man stuff, I dunno, I think we need something past single group static progression, 8, 4, 6 would accommodate more people being able to get together but it still seems like a band-aid fix as its not really adding a new dimension to endgame, Diadem was different, but where is it now? Is it just going to be an every other patch catch up tool? Or will it be tuned so that players have an incentive to part take in it throughout the cycles.

i have said group, not raid, i means content hard and challenging for group of 4 player, the trouble with FF14 it's you jump from group of 4 to full group 8 without transition.
the normal mode don't help to make people wanting to partake into it... and diadem didn't hit the nail too.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

the normal mode don't help to make people wanting to partake into it... and diadem didn't hit the nail too.

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FF11 endgame was 18-man boss fights and had slightly less subscribers than ff14 has..... so not sure why organizing 8 ppl is unreasonable.

Normal mode does the opposite of making people want to participate in raiding, it gives out all the incentives of raiding w/o ever having to touch a raid.... So it's not surprising to me that it is hard to find people that want to raid now.

people don't stop to complain about get a group of 8 every week and you want to add a content for 18+ person, i dunno it feel kinda.... well you see.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

FF11 endgame was 18-man boss fights and had slightly less subscribers than ff14 has..... so not sure why organizing 8 ppl is unreasonable.

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The significant difference is that FFXI endgame wasn't really 18-man boss fights. You could take up to 18 people, but you could easily beat almost everything with significantly fewer people.

Imagine Savage fights being tuned exactly as they are now, but being able to take anywhere between 8 and 20 people, and that's what FFXI endgame was like.

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Originally Posted by Marcellus_Cassius

we end up with a non-savage raiding community

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Thats just an opinion.

As we started yersterday our first raid day of the week, the mass of people at the entrance of Midas did cause a massive frame rate drop of my SLI system.

And these were just the people, which were waiting to start, not the others, who were already within.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

As we started yersterday our first raid day of the week, the mass of people at the entrance of Midas did cause a massive frame rate drop of my SLI system.

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I hope by "massive frame rate drop" you mean from 180 FPS to around 100 FPS, and that you're not using SLI on a pair of 120s. lol

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Originally Posted by Ibi

The significant difference is that FFXI endgame wasn't really 18-man boss fights. You could take up to 18 people, but you could easily beat almost everything with significantly fewer people.

Imagine Savage fights being tuned exactly as they are now, but being able to take anywhere between 8 and 20 people, and that's what FFXI endgame was like.

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18 or more because i remember ppl leaving the alliance and others joining , or not even joining at all (some healers )

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Originally Posted by Ibi

The significant difference is that FFXI endgame wasn't really 18-man boss fights. You could take up to 18 people, but you could easily beat almost everything with significantly fewer people.

Imagine Savage fights being tuned exactly as they are now, but being able to take anywhere between 8 and 20 people, and that's what FFXI endgame was like.

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18 or more because i remember ppl leaving the alliance and others joining , or not even joining at all (some healers )

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

Thats just an opinion.

As we started yersterday our first raid day of the week, the mass of people at the entrance of Midas did cause a massive frame rate drop of my SLI system.

And these were just the people, which were waiting to start, not the others, who were already within.

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Likewise to your observation; on my server, there was hardly more than 6 groups on release night gathering at peak time. Now you don't see more than 3 people gathering at the entrance. The raiding population simply isn't there anymore for most servers after gordias, and there's no boom in population inbetween.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

Thats just an opinion.

As we started yersterday our first raid day of the week, the mass of people at the entrance of Midas did cause a massive frame rate drop of my SLI system.

And these were just the people, which were waiting to start, not the others, who were already within.

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Yeah, next time you quote someone quote the whole sentence and not a few words that change the meaning to your liking. If you finish reading my opinion it doesn't state that we have a non savage raiding community but instead that THE non savage raiding community is just as disinterested in endgame activities. And a few hundred people making your computer lag on a Tuesday isn't much to go by.

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but instead that THE non savage raiding community is just as disinterested in endgame activities.

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What is "endgame"? Hint: Its not just savage ;)

The savage raiding community is a small part of the whole playerbase. But this is not new. It has always been and will ever be like this.

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Originally Posted by Marcellus_Cassius

And a few hundred people.

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Maybe it depends hugely on the server. But they were way more than a few hundred. The amount of people I did see yesterday was larger than I've ever seen in the good old days at the entrances of first, second or final coil.

Just because you don't raid it doesn't mean nobody else does.

The community is not that dead. Maybe on servers without an healthy raiding community before. But not everywhere.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

What is "endgame"? Hint: Its not just savage ;)

The savage raiding community is a small part of the whole playerbase. But this is not new. It has always been and will ever be like this.



Maybe it depends hugely on the server. But they were way more than a few hundred. The amount of people I did see yesterday was larger than I've ever seen in the good old days at the entrances of first, second or final coil.

Just because you don't raid it doesn't mean nobody else does.

The community is not that dead. Maybe on servers without an healthy raiding community before. But not everywhere.

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You're still missing my entire argument, I never said the raiding community was dead, you said I said the raiding community was dead, get it?

Even though endgame is more than fighting stuff, in this thread we're talking about fighting stuff- thats the "endgame activity" being discussed here.

i will not say that the raiding community is dead, but let's say it's not as big as before... and will not go better i guess.

the reason vary:
- new player have a hard time to join a static, a lot of static are quite elitist (not all ^^)
- player have a life and will have trouble to schedule content like this.
- some player will simply not find it fun to repeat over and over and over content for do bunny jumping
- the lack of replayability of the content, loot =/= replayability ^^

and i'm sure other people can give more and more reason of why this situation is like this.

To be honest: I did do team rope jumping in my childhood.
Still, i havnt done it each day because its not an action you have fun repeating over and over again...
Our games varied and thats what i think is missing the most in current endgame.

Lets say you aim for Savage Gear, there is no way to get them other than doing savage!
Thats not how i remember we played games in my childhood (i dont mean computer games)
Even if future content will vary, i fear gating them behind walls or lockouts or weekly drops will negate the positive effect.

I just wish it has better accessibility, cause right now:

1) Running Savage with a PUG is typically not a good experience unless you are learning
2) A static requires every member to agree on a set time/day and most people in this world have things going on in their lives or don't want to take a hobby this seriously. This can be an issue since you need eight people for this, and they also have to be good at what they do.
3) If you have a player who has cleared for the week, it would affect the number of chests upon clearing. Making it hard to get assistance from friends who are in other statics.
4) People who are unfortunate enough to have started on smaller servers will have a harder time with the first three points I made due to the number of players they have at endgame who are capable/interested/not in a static already, therefore resulting in world transfers which ultimately hinders the growth of their original world's raid community, reinforcing this point altogether.

I don't believe that putting them on DF is the solution, it'll be just like my first point, with less accountability.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

and i'm sure other people can give more and more reason of why this situation is like this.

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- its a Gil Sink , waste gil on food and potions , isnt cheap at all ....if u craft , waste time on gathering and crafting (1 potion at time of course!) thats time u cant "enjoy" FFXIV

- half the time u are raiding is waiting on Cds....food last 30 min , but u only use 15 of those so frustrating!

- the content is fun when learning after that is boring , and u have to repeat phase 1 to practice phase 2....and repeat p1 & p2 to wipe on P3 in 10s....

- ppl already know that 240 gear will rain in a few months ....so if u arent a "raider" that like the content ....why bother?

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Originally Posted by Bobkitty

...I don't believe that putting them on DF is the solution, it'll be just like my first point, with less accountability.

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i think like you, put it in the DF is barely a band aid at this point.
the whole trouble is most people don't really want to spend this much time to die and retry, it work in a game like dark soul, but seriously i still remember razorgore that did take a few month for my raid to pass... believe me it was not fun and it was only frustration...

the trouble is yoshida and it team are too much focus on the past and refuse to see that. like some people still think that raid at 24+ will make the game better, as a former raid leader i know perfectly than more people involved more a joke the content become. mostly because it's impossible to create a content that will recquire very high coordination and execution for this much person. we had a saying in my raid on wow vanilla, for a raid at 40 you must at least count 6 people that will do shit. because you can't monitor everyone action and some will not stay focus.

yes a big group create difficulty, but is more a difficulty in the management of the group more than the raid. do it's true difficulty? i'm not that sure, i don't say that the savage is easy and such, more than the difficulty come from the fact that they tailored it for an almost perfect execution of a pattern more than test the skill of the player or the group by itself.

it was said before, right now is more 8 people dancing solo, right to the other member of the group. little to no real teamwork. since most of the fight are choregraphy that need to be executed more than reaction, adapation or improvisation.

sadly, they want to create a very high level content, and they scared to create a content that will force the group to improvise, adapt and react to what come, random in a fight is always welcome, it make them more replayable. (and i don't say full random). what make people less interested is too that part... the fact that when you did beat the boss and get the choregraphy it will be a boring fight where you repeat this choregraphy.

personally i have raid enough in the past, i don't feel the need to repeat this sort of model over and over and over. yeah new mechanic will appear, but in all honesty, do it feel really rewarding? like said by warlyx, most of the stuff will get trivialized later. and i doubt that loot is a reward enough... my favorite raid is zul gurub (vanilla) where you was the one deciding how the raid will go. you can do the priest in the order you want or even try to kill hakkar without kill all the priest... we are too much guided, too much into choregraphy for be really interesting...

soo far, for me the raid of FF14 is like a rail shooter. (i think the same of the dungeon) i was not loving totorak in the V1, but i admit the idea behind the dungeon was really interesting, badly implemented, but interesting.

we need more random, more different encounter that are not always leading to a rail shooter mechanic. we need to become explorer... they need to add a part of rogue like content, with randomized encounter to some point. where people need to react to the enemy and the skill they will use. here instead to learn the boss, we learn a dance, and i feel it need to be learning the boss and the skill he can use.

more reaction, adaption and improvisation is needed.

Sadly, an extra difficulty level wouldn't do much to satiate the community. A lot of people pine for it, but let's really think about that.

Savage needs to maintain the highest item level rewards, and not by a small margin. People (other than the most elite) won't be interested in it otherwise, as we've seen with Savage Second Coil. That leads to most of the raid-inclined community feeling like they have to do it. We already see this now, as a good portion of the community still attempts Savage, despite their actual interests or alignments (casual/mid/hardcore).

Problem 2? Dead content. It's a fine line, balancing this content. Middle difficulty is more or less what Extreme Primals are. It takes time to actually learn the encounter, but it's cleared within the first couple of days, and almost certainly the first week or two, by most of the community. Normal mode might as well be dead on arrival at that point, since people could just get better gear at the Extreme level, which is the most efficient gearing route. Let's not forget that crafted gear would undoubtedly be better than normal (it already is). At that point, you're effectively back to two difficulty levels, with dead content to boot.

It's really a difficult system to try and remedy, and while I do think a 4-6 person party sounds like a better fix than other things, I somehow don't imagine they'd nail that. With their logic, I can already hear them saying, "We'd have to make mechanics more punishing for individual players, since the party size is smaller."