Its pre season please stop

An 8v8 unranked too bad for players that want to learn in 4v4

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Originally Posted by AbandonHopeTD

Im on JP server and everyone is really respectful even in loss... would suck if people got salty

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Agreed. If the s"""talking really bothers you that much...go to a jp server lol. 100% the other way around there. During secure days, jumped to Marboro/elemental which was english/jp mix. Was actually so respectful/ organized I actually had to come back BECAUSE it was boring lol (actually missed the raging in shouts and such...not even a teabagging) That being said, if youre currently playing blm, don't expect much here in the way of smiles. With blm's current state..it feels like a carry many times and no one wants to get their own *** handed to em because of being chained to it. Just sayin....

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Originally Posted by Kyani

If you have no idea what you're doing at all in a pvp context, throwing yourself right into the highest difficulty is an awful way to learn. It's like trying to learn a brand new class (at 50/60) by trying to do EX primals rather than EX roulette.

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It's not good for established skilled players win/loss ratio but this is wrong.

Jumping straight into the hardest thing will actually teach you faster if you're someone who self analyzes and comes up with solutions.

If you got 2 people bad at fighting games. Who will learn faster? The guy playing his little brother or the guy going to tournaments?

Seems like 75% of matches have one or more person who cannot handle losing like an adult and starts calling their teammates noobs, idiots or worse.
Yes it hurts my enjoyment of Feast. A friend of mine was asking me how to set up chat filters so he could play pvp without seeing harassment.
The players are the worst thing about the game, at least on NA and EU worlds where harassment, botting and RMT are rampant.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Seems like 75% of matches have one or more person who cannot handle losing like an adult and starts calling their teammates noobs, idiots or worse.
Yes it hurts my enjoyment of Feast. A friend of mine was asking me how to set up chat filters so he could play pvp without seeing harassment.
The players are the worst thing about the game, at least on NA and EU worlds where harassment, botting and RMT are rampant.

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Yes i've been wondering how to make it so I don't have to see the party chat as a healer also.

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Originally Posted by Kyani

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Respectfully, I think there are a few things wrong with this.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Isn't there just as many new people on the other teams?

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There's not. You're matched with 3 random players, against 4 random players. Statistically the duds are 25% more likely to be on the other team, giving you free wins.
The rest of your arguement seems be be based on the pretense that you're only going to play 10 games, causing you to round up + skewing the numbers. I imagine most serious players would be looking at several hundred matches over the course of the season.

But I mean, really, regardless of how the statistics work, it is crazy frustrating and sucks to have to tolerate any % of auto-losses whatsoever in a competitive mode. Hopefully leaderboards get posted and give people a meaningful metric to go off of other than "rank". Would be awesome to see things chill a bit and toxicity levels go down (one can hope anyways)

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Seems like 75% of matches have one or more person who cannot handle losing like an adult and starts calling their teammates noobs, idiots or worse.
Yes it hurts my enjoyment of Feast. A friend of mine was asking me how to set up chat filters so he could play pvp without seeing harassment.
The players are the worst thing about the game, at least on NA and EU worlds where harassment, botting and RMT are rampant.

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I often find that if you're a good player, people don't really flame you. Ever stop and think maybe you screwed up? Made a bad misplay? Weren't listening to your teammates and working as a member of said team? I've seen lots of flaming, but I've seen just as much selfish ignorance. When everyone is saying "Hey monk, don't run in 1v4, you have 3 stacks!" And they run in and die, losing us the game...Yeah, that person is an idiot.

My favorite is when you have a healer that dies once, says "gg," and just afks on the landing. I mean, at least try to win the game back instead of just automatically forfeiting your rank points. Hopefully this doesn't happen too often when the actual season starts but I wouldn't hold my breath.

The thing is you can lose or you can win but the way makes thing difference:
1- Most of the time people who is new or don't know what to don't say anything before match. ( If they say and try i just get salty with SE not with then is not new players fault)
2- People don't do the plan. We agree to do something and they do other thing. (I main Whm so you already know what happens)
3- They don't really care about anything. You say in chat to people use purify, you explain how it works and the answer is .... ( You probably know). And in a long match against a smn that happened a lot. And they don't use in the hole match.
4- They ignore the medal mechanic. (So people lb wrong person, hit the wrong one, don't pick medals or go full ahead with 8 stacks)
5- You can not help then because people just left soon as is done. (So we need a pvp mentor in this game)

And people don't do 2 or 3 matches a day they do 20+ so when that happened 2 or 3 times in a row and they lost. Some of this players get salty. They lost a lot of points plus people dc, afk and give up on the match a lot. But in the end the feast is suppose to be the "savage" mode of pvp. On pve they have Faust, if you can't pass you can't go. On pvp the remove everything so the same way that have people that can pass Faust with 210 weapon and 210 ilvl have others that can't do with 220 weapon plus ilvl 220+. And both of then can be in the same game making a huge difference on the game plus in pvp they are sync on 150 and and you can use your pvp skill to give you more dps and makes things more difficult for the healer.

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Originally Posted by Enlial

There's not. You're matched with 3 random players, against 4 random players. Statistically the duds are 25% more likely to be on the other team, giving you free wins.
The rest of your arguement seems be be based on the pretense that you're only going to play 10 games, causing you to round up + skewing the numbers. I imagine most serious players would be looking at several hundred matches over the course of the season.

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But you're only able to affect your own role. You might be able to guarantee that you have the best Melee DPS, but you're banking on your team's Ranged, Healer and Tank slots to all be at least passable. For non-Healer roles, this is kind of a huge deal: even compared to bad DPS, a bad healer on one of the teams has a very strong correlation with that team losing the game, and that's going to be a 50/50 split for the majority of people queueing.

There's no pretense involved, either. If you isolate it to games played as a non-healer, where the healer was incompetent / unranked, you might see a breakdown something like this:

Games played since hitting 500 Rating: 150
Free Wins vs Healers: 12
Free Losses w/ Healers: 12
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Total "real" matches, ignoring other null-games: 126
W/L required to have hit Silver in that timeframe: +23
Win% required to hit Silver in 126 games: 75-51, or 59.52%

The reality is, awful DPS (or tanks) are going to lose you games as well, pushing that # higher. But that's harder to quantify, and which of those apply to you (as a non-healer) depends on which role you are - a Tank will only lose games to bad healers or bad DPS, but a DPS is open to all three roles suffering a failure (but can sometimes carry the DPS role).

TL;DR: At the end of the day, even with low failure rates, you're looking at low-to-mid-60% winrates to climb the ladder in a reasonable amount of time. As failure rates go up (or if you never queue as a healer), it becomes progressively more difficult to tread water even as a skilled player, and streakiness / "bomb dodging" plays a larger role.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

It's not good for established skilled players win/loss ratio but this is wrong.

Jumping straight into the hardest thing will actually teach you faster if you're someone who self analyzes and comes up with solutions.

If you got 2 people bad at fighting games. Who will learn faster? The guy playing his little brother or the guy going to tournaments?

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In this case, it's not simply that they're bad at fighting games - they've never used a joystick (or potentially a controller) at all. Teaching your opponent the basics of using a joystick at a tournament is not a reasonable expectation.

Alright, lets put this into perspective.
Imagine solo 4v4 queue is the farm party. If you don't know the mechanics, and are a first timer joining a farm party, with very low dps, doesn't know what half their skills do, you'll find that the farm party gets very toxic quickly. Now imagine that every time you wiped, your chance of getting rewards were reduced, and unlike farm parties, you can't choose to exclude people you don't like.
Or put it another way, 4v4 solo queue is savage in which you have to DF it alone every single time. Don't tell me that solo DF only savage wouldn't get toxic. It would.

You know those pve PFs that are like "ONE SCREW UP AND YOU'RE BOOTED AND REPLACED!!", well, you can't boot people in pvp (not really, gotta be out of battle, and 5mins into the 10min game >.>).... and you get the same people who would make those kind of PFs in 4v4 solo queue... so.. toxicity levels increase.
That is how the feast is.

8v8 is more like the learning party, it's not rated (so people won't rage so much when you lose), and it's (a little) less intense than 4v4, and you can still get the minion and mount from it.

4v4 partied is fun-run-with-your-static-time. Personally I like this mode the most, it has rating as well, and the minion and mount, but you can't get the rewards that solo 4v4 queue will have. If you wanted, you could get 3 friends together and learn how to pvp in this mode. Since you are going with 3 friends, you won't get raged at, like you might do in 8v8 or 4v4 solo queue. Of course, you might get totally crushed by a party that is experienced at it, but hey, watching how they use their abilities and work together could be a good learning experience.

Hopefully that clears up why 4v4 solo queue is so toxic, and why people should try other modes that are more fun. 8v8 is a faceroll with two good healers. (My 8v8 win ratio is 79% ;) )

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Originally Posted by Renault

Ever stop and think maybe you screwed up? Made a bad misplay? Weren't listening to your teammates and working as a member of said team?

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Well I wasn't necessarily just talking about myself, but this is a discussion about player attitudes. What difference does it make if a player is elite, average or bad. Harassment against them shouldn't happen under any circumstance, even if they have a poor performance. Too often people can't control their emotions when their team is weaker than the opponents and they start placing the blame and speaking harshly against their team members.

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Originally Posted by Kyani

In this case, it's not simply that they're bad at fighting games - they've never used a joystick (or potentially a controller) at all. Teaching your opponent the basics of using a joystick at a tournament is not a reasonable expectation.

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Plenty of people make top 8, using pad.

It's not stick or you'll never be good.

Try arguing a in-game situation and not whether or not the player even knows what buttons are.

Your analogy is not adding up in my example. Ability to use Controllers =\= decision making in the game.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Well I wasn't necessarily just talking about myself, but this is a discussion about player attitudes. What difference does it make if a player is elite, average or bad. Harassment against them shouldn't happen under any circumstance, even if they have a poor performance. Too often people can't control their emotions when their team is weaker than the opponents and they start placing the blame and speaking harshly against their team members.

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There is a threshold of patience/tolerance at some points though, specifically individuals who can't seem to listen to calls or even basic awareness. As I mentioned, even vitrol is incredibly far and few inbetween, I've only had one match out of my 37 where someone else was spewing the hate (and it was a tank no less, whom didn't get the memo that he was supposed to be keeping pressure on the enemy WHM), and 2 matches where I legitimately got angry at select members of my group for failing basic awareness.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

Try arguing a in-game situation and not whether or not the player even knows what buttons are.

Your analogy is not adding up in my example. Ability to use Controllers =\= decision making in the game.

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A healer queueing up wihout the knowledge of the existence of their PvP abilities or Surecast is a huge hindrance to their group. It's possible to make up with skill (to a certain degree; unless you're a Scholar), but you should not expect them to come close to carrying their weight.

It is not the job of people in Ranked (especially Silver+ people) to sit through players reading their tooltips.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Well I wasn't necessarily just talking about myself, but this is a discussion about player attitudes. What difference does it make if a player is elite, average or bad. Harassment against them shouldn't happen under any circumstance, even if they have a poor performance. Too often people can't control their emotions when their team is weaker than the opponents and they start placing the blame and speaking harshly against their team members.

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One could argue that intentionally not listening to your team, being a burden at the expense of others, and thereby wasting their time could also be considered harassment. I'm not condoning hatred towards others or saying harassment is okay, but if you tell someone specifically not to do something, and they do it, you can only be so polite.

i see some players complain and blame other also, sometimes it'sme, better to get used to this. Sometimes it's right and you take it. Other times it's just raging player who need someone to blame.
I have a good win ratio but when i loose i don't do something like that, some of this players don't understand you are not gonna be on a winning group all the times.