"Job XXX only" parties

2.0 has pokemon battles

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It's astonishing SE actually managed to repeat the class-exclusivity mistake once again.

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It wasn't SE, it was the community. But yes this sucks. Until 1.2 at least when they supposedly revamp abilities.

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Originally Posted by Petori

It wasn't SE, it was the community. But yes this sucks. Until 1.2 at least when they supposedly revamp abilities.

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honestly you could say it was SE if you consider it a balance issue.

having said that it still isn't really SE's fault since you'd be a complete idiot to expect them to be able to get something so complex as this perfectly done with the first try, or even the tenth try. balance is an ongoing thing in almost every situation.

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

Actually there is a good reason Lancer is the preferred DD for Ifrit, and it's not because they do the best damage. Lancer is the only job that can engage Ifrit with auto-attack that has the range to stay far enough back to not be constantly hit by his plumes that he spits out at anyone within range of his body after he rages.

It's not an issue of player preference, it's just what people have to do because the mp cost on cures makes in nearly impossible to heal a tank and the other DDs without running out of mp in about 5 minutes or so.

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Even then, Marauders and Pugilists (and anyone else really for that matter) can heal themselves. Bloodbath + Victimize or Maim grants a good deal of health. Second Wind is decent for 250 TP. Even Cure/Sacrifice works for close-range DD classes. I mean the mages aren't the only ones who can heal, the least people can do is try to take care of themselves where possible.

Looks like GW 2 is going to be a amazing game, since you dont need to worry about tank/healer/dd setups. Just saying!

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Originally Posted by Dragonlord

Looks like GW 2 is going to be a amazing game, since you dont need to worry about tank/healer/dd setups. Just saying!

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I care. I TOTALLY care

As far as this fight goes, just be glad the playerbase at large doesn't realize yet that MRD makes a much better tank than GLA currently or GLA would be completely put out of a job on this one.
MRD can come as tank or DD whereas GLA can only fill that 1 tank spot. Every other class can fill their role nicely and there's generally more than one 'slot' for 'em.

Like others, this isnot happening on our server. O.o And you really could just make your own PT. ;)

I think they did fairly well in comparison to Darkhold. Everyone gets some love (damage) this time around. Mages are running for their lives along with the DD (ranged or melee) this time around unless positioned right. Sure some classes do more DD this time around but I think the fight is manageable with any stack right now. Still have to have the classics like a tank and some healers but the healers can easily be converted for use as damage if need be and Marauder is still a viable choice for DD/Tanking duties. If you can't DD it fast then you gotta bring more healers...if you can DD it fast then you gotta watch hate or you drain your healers fast. It's all about positioning and balancing out your group and executing correctly from what I see.

There are no jobs yet.

"Class-exclusivity" is not the problem here.

SE tried to have "no class-exclusivity" with v1 and all it got them people leveling A with xyz components from other jobs which actually landed practically the same job over and over again with the exception of the weapon being used in the main hand. This is more or less true for DD's but it can be applied to some mage jobs as well. Overall, it can extend to all jobs.

Yes I know that actual "jobs" have not been implemented yet but everyone here gets what I mean, as well as what the thread starter meant.

In regards to the infamous "class-exclusivity problem" it's something people need to deal with. There will always be jobs better suited for something- a dream combination if you will but the biggest problem is making all jobs relevant to the party.

Incoming example! And mind you, this is only for the traditional party setup in FFXI back in the day.

In FFXI for a long time THF had a lot of problems leveling, so did Monk, Warrior, and even Dark Knight. The favorite DD was always Samurai and still is although the "Unwanted Jobs-R-Us Club" has changed members.

To be perfectly honest, I still think THF would have issues getting into PT (over some jobs) but not as bad as before.

hater is all he is to lazy to lvl a class ppl want

Ain't no way I'll ever level lancer past 20 and I still don't see the problem one bit. In any game where classes actually differ on a functional level and not just for aesthesics, there will always be one superior class for each situation.

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Originally Posted by smokymcweed

hater is all he is to lazy to lvl a class ppl want

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People shouldn't be forced to level a specific class, especially for one specific encounter. Let's say Archer is in demand, it happened before. I don't have my Archer at 50 and honestly I don't have a lot of desire to level it at this moment. Why should I be forced to level a class I have little interest in for a single fight?

Job or class XXX parties happen because SE doesn't know how to balance.... Each patch they make class 'balance' adjustments that merely nerf one class and boost another.

It is indeed the player's fault. Ifrit can be downed by any competent group of people with mixed classes.

Simple solution: Everybody level a mage job. No matter what fight, you will ALWAYS need healers... so if you have one leveled, voila. You avoid the inability to join said parties.

if you DON'T want to level the job other people want you to be, then don't expect to do the content with them. Either make your own group, find a group who will take you, or whatever... But in the end, people would rather have the highest chance of winning... and there is almost always a certain setup that gives you an edge of winning any fight.

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

It is indeed the player's fault. Ifrit can be downed by any competent group of people with mixed classes.

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It can be, but there is always 'The Best' classes to use that make the fight a great deal more easier, just like there was with darkhold.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

WoW has this same issue.

So does FFXI,

So does Rift

Class based games need certain classes to accomplish content.

Thats how it works.

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It's a bit different when out of 8 available spaces, 5 of them are one class and that is considered "optimal." None of those games have that issue.

FFXI also had a little over 8 years to add around 20 jobs, and actually didn't have all that many on release ^^;

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

...and here we go again. People in Ul'dah shouting for "Job XXX only" for the LV50 Ifrit fight. For those of us who did not jump on the powerleveling bandwagon soon enough to get the jobs they do not really like to play leveled, it simply sucks.

It's astonishing SE actually managed to repeat the class-exclusivity mistake once again.

And don't tell me it's the players fault. It's a design flaw when the same content is easily beatable by job combination X, but a job combination Y will decrease your chances of success by factor 5. Especially since there's no alternative to Conjurers. Which people like to invite 3/8 members. :p

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JOB PORN PARTIES? Where do I sign up!

As long as you have Tank and 2 healers(which is a must for any boss, i mean what do you want 8 dds?) you can put any DD combination and still win.

Some drawback/advantage,

PUG are close range, so they will get Sear dmg but can still survive and it be a bit harder to run away from Cracks
LNC are perfect because they have the longest distance and 90% of the attack is against a singe target
MRD kinda in the middle of both PUG and LNC
ARC gets locked from his attack so its really risky

I well remember people preferring ARC to my LNC in Darkhold parties and must admit it's nice that my favourite job is in demand now. I've seen groups go in and come out successful without a single LNC among them though so it can be done. It's up to you wether you want to try to make a party with a different set up.
Personally I'm putting in a lot of time levelling Glad which I dislike for sentinal just to do this fight. Hard work will make victory sweeter.

Please complained about this during the Darkhold because Lancers and Marauders weren't getting shouts. Now that lancers and marauders are getting shouts, people are complaining that Archers don't get any love.

I have a question to ask here, has anyone successfully beaten Ifrit as an Archer? So many people I talk to call Archer crap now and say if you wanna win go Lancer. Archer has been (and still is) my favorite class, I liked it before it became the fad to be one for the damage potential. Even after the nerf and people are ditching it quickly I'm still playing as one and gathering materia to improve my damage potential.

Archer is not crap now... but it's not effective against Ifrit because of the animation lock makes it easy kindling for Eruption. LNC is the most effective because it's nimbler does the most damage and can avoid Sear.

If Sear was not there, it wouldn't be an issue of what class to invite. Putting Sear in is basically saying "LNC ONRY". It is asking for people to not get near Ifrit. True you can say "Well get better healers.", but the problem is, people always want the easier way, and having Lancers only is that easy way.

When they design a boss fight, they need to make it flexible for everyone, they need it so people say "Okay get anyone who can DPS!".

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Originally Posted by Starlord

This Thread is about Mac and Cheese....

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man i love mac and cheese but not that rank craft stuff proper home made stuff yuummmm

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Originally Posted by Velhart

When they design a boss fight, they need to make it flexible for everyone, they need it so people say "Okay get anyone who can DPS!".

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It's more like humans need to act like humans - adopt to the situation. If they start making bosses "flexible" soon enough they'll need to make them soloable as an option.

Right now it is flexible, but as said people will take the easiest way out.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

It's more like humans need to act like humans - adopt to the situation. If they start making bosses "flexible" soon enough they'll need to make them soloable as an option.

Right now it is flexible, but as said people will take the easiest way out.

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As true as your statement is, we need to be realistic here. It is human nature to take the easy road if it is available. Trying to prevent picking out a specific class only should be how it works.

People should inviting based off of skill and how well geared they are, not simply what class you are. WoW raid fights always makes use out of everyone without a hinderance to a certain class, making everyone welcome. I played it for 6 years and very rare I see someone say "We don't want this class" because of how well the class itself performs. Sometimes you got the person who didn't want a Ret Pally, but it was the overall community was flexible on this. Know why? Because when they make these raids and their bosses, they take all classes into count when making them, making sure one isn't shafted because of a certain thing the mob does.

Which brings up back to FFXIV. So far Ifrit looks good, he uses abilities that affects the lot and balanced until Sear happens. Because of this one move, people don't want close in melee and now want LNC's, and ARC with it's issues are not wanted either. What I want to know is, when the developers put Sear in, did they not anticipate this to happen? Did they not anticipate people would just take the easy road and not depend on healers to better enchance themselves to handle the damage Sear does? On paper, yes, but being realistic, it goes back to human nature. Why bother with it if you can prevent it by only inviting Lancers?

I agree with you, people should adopt to the situation. The problem is, the easy road is what they adopt to, and other classes get shafted for it. I hope they take this fight and learn from it, and make Moogle fight as flexable as possible.

As long as you aren't second on the hate list then going as ARC should be fine. You stand in the same kind of spot as the mages. People want LNC because it's easier.

I'm not even sure you could beat Ifrit in a pickup party, it requires too much organisation.

cuz alot people are newbs and scared to try something else, every job is good problem is the people who play them.

like some the tanks that dont use any defence ablitys i mean none and expect to mob(s) to stay on them.
its the cookie cut syndrome if they saw it online or someone says its "this way only" they make it the only possible way to do something or they wont do it without a power leveler >.>

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Originally Posted by Xenor

As long as you aren't second on the hate list then going as ARC should be fine. You stand in the same kind of spot as the mages. People want LNC because it's easier.

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We've tested this and confirmed it to be false. Cracks don't target 2nd person on hate list. They can even appear in the middle of nowhere.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

I'm not even sure you could beat Ifrit in a pickup party, it requires too much organisation.

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This is what intrigues me too. I really can't see pick up groups ever defeating Ifrit. Many LSs are still struggling with it, and they try time after time, usually with the same people.

If you're the type of player interested in "endgame" events then you should have a dedicated linkshell for them. Don't rely on pick up groups.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

It's more like humans need to act like humans - adopt to the situation. If they start making bosses "flexible" soon enough they'll need to make them soloable as an option.

Right now it is flexible, but as said people will take the easiest way out.

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It's bad design. WoW has one of the most elitist and competitive end game communities I've ever seen in an MMO. I've seen more math and charts done for optimal play in WoW than I saw in all of college. In WoW, some classes do better DPS on certain encounters than others, but I have never seen an encounter where if 100% of the DPS was class "X" it would make the encounter significantly easier and safer. Why? It's the developers job to make sure things like that don't happen.

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

We've tested this and confirmed it to be false. Cracks don't target 2nd person on hate list. They can even appear in the middle of nowhere.

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That's interesting. It just seems that way because in most of the videos I've watched with the strategy of having the mages stand away from plumes the cracks almost always appear under the lancers. It doesn't seem totally random at least.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

That's interesting. It just seems that way because in most of the videos I've watched with the strategy of having the mages stand away from plumes the cracks almost always appear under the lancers. It doesn't seem totally random at least.

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We've tested with all DDs and tank accomplicing mages, hoping to have them avoid cracks completely. Instead, they ate almost all the cracks (mages were all green hate, DDs and tanks were yellow/red). So this seems to suggest that it targets the lowest on the hate list, but even that isn't true. It's best to just be prepared for cracks, regardless of your enmity level.

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

We've tested with all DDs and tank accomplicing mages, hoping to have them avoid cracks completely. Instead, they ate almost all the cracks (mages were all green hate, DDs and tanks were yellow/red). So this seems to suggest that it targets the lowest on the hate list, but even that isn't true. It's best to just be prepared for cracks, regardless of your enmity level.

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Cracks are kinda stupid. I start running as soon as I see one under me, then about two seconds after I step off it I get pwned by it. It's an interesting game mechanic but with that kind of lag it just takes the fun out the fight. They should increase the time allowed to get off it when the lag is that bad and reduce it when they fix the issue.