level 60 dungeon roulette fair to have Aetherochemical Research Facility?

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Originally Posted by Mayoyama

WTB Lahabrea and Ascian Prime minions! Will run Aetherochemical Research Facility many times for this http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/i...es/biggrin.png

EDIT: While you are at it, could you please ask the minion and triple triad card masters to consider:

• Rhitahtyn sas Arvina minion from Cape Westwind
• Livia sas Junius minion (with her riding her white Magitek Mount!) from Castrum
• Gaius van Baelsar and Ultima minions from Praetorium
• Vishap minion/card in Steps of Faith
• Nabriales minion/card in The Chrysalis

(can you tell I am minion/TT mad? xD)

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If we're gonna derail this topic then I should point out the dungeons that don't have minions from after Prae.

• Pharos Sirius (Both versions)
• The Lost City of Amdapor
• Wanderer's Palace (Both Versions)
• Amdapor Keep HM
• Haukke Manor HM
• Stone Vigil HM
• Dusk Vigil
• Snowcloak
• Tam-Tara Deepcroth HM
• Hullbreaker
• and Keeper of the Lake (well, unless you count 'Somnr)

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Except that they'll make the drops with stupidly low drop rates so that people have the "incentive" to keep running the content. Remember, MMOs are always going to make the shiny toys be rare so that you got an excuse to keep playing and I always hear from people how they run EX primals a million times for a pony/bird or how they keep running Void Ark for the card that everyone keeps yanking from. Be careful what you wish for, because you're gonna get sick of the Aetherochemical Research Facility after that nth run for a minion.

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Thank you captain obvious. I am well aware of how they make the things drop and given the precedent of the new TT cards in 2.X dungeons, am also aware that the content being outdated is a non-factor in deciding rarity. If you think I make this suggestion or the ones listed above and not expect to need 10 million in runs or gil to get the minion, well I don;t know what to say

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

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Sometimes you HAVE to be obvious to get it through everyone's heads. People always say how they want this or this is a good idea, only to turn around when they DO get and complain about it. It's a vicious cycle.

Just have it drop the same stuff 160 dungeon stuff as Fractal and Neverreap.

Knock 20% of the HP off of the trash mobs, just to make it faster. Not like people were wiping on trash anyway.

If it takes about 20 minutes like the other 60 dungeons (even a little longer should be FINE), people can deal with the fairly short cutscene during the final boss segment.

I must be in the minority but the dungeon isn't that long. The final boss compared to say, the Aery is a breeze. The Aery has one mechanic that kills you if not broken out in 7 seconds (like Titan hard Gaol) and a DPS check that will instawipe if you don't get it down in the what, 30 seconds it allows you.

The second boss in ARF can be burned down pretty quick now.

It might be harder on newer players, but the point of putting it in the roulette was more and more people were done with the HW story, leaving new players waiting ages for a queue. Can't blame Square for putting it in there.

As for the reward, I also suggest just same stuff as fractal and never reap drops. It doesn't need to be anything sky breaking or ultra rare. Just make it on par with the other dungeons in the roulette, loot wise. It won't harm the first time player if they happen to get few pieces of gear, and the regular roulette runners get their GC seal fodder. It's not that that particular dungeon needs any extra incentive for players to run that particular place now that it actually is in a roulette. It's just that those running the roulette don't want to be dealt an empty hand, when any other deal in 60 roulette would keep them in ventures and cordials.

I personally think it's fine as is. The whole point of the DR system was to shorten the queue times for people who want to run that specific dungeon by providing a once a day bonus to people who join a random queue. Your incentive to run DR: Level 60 Dungeons is the tome bonus from the DR, not the dungeon itself.

As for people complaining that ARF takes forever, that is not true at all. I probably end up in ARF roughly 3 times a week and have never had it take longer than 20-25 minutes with new players being in there every time. The 25 minute runs was because the tank was new in i142 gear. If you get a healer and a tank that are both i180+ the dungeon is even shorter than 20 minutes as you can do mass pulls.

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Originally Posted by Cnidarian

I personally think it's fine as is. The whole point of the DR system was to shorten the queue times for people who want to run that specific dungeon by providing a once a day bonus to people who join a random queue. Your incentive to run DR: Level 60 Dungeons is the tome bonus from the DR, not the dungeon itself.

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Maybe, but they took for granted that every dungeon in those roulettes drops gear for Retainers/Seals, And that they could easily blitz through it because of leinent ilevel caps. Hence the complaints, they forgot that they are only entitled to the tome bonus for the roulettes, nothing more, nothing less

At the moment the only reason to run this dungeon for me is the music. Otherwise it is far too long and reward is bad. As others mentioned above, there should be drops like cards, minions, crafting mats, faded pages to make this dungeon worth the time.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

We decided to include the Aetherochemical Research Facility in the level 60 roulette in order to make it easier for new players to complete the dungeon as part of the main scenario for Heavensward. We'd like to consider adding rewards if necessary, so please continue to submit your suggestions with that goal in mind.

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How about adding chests with Purified Coke, Raziqcoat, Dryad Sap, Moonbeam Silk, Odorless Animal Fat, and Skyspring Water?

Make ARF give as many lore tomestones as the patch 3.1 dungeons. Nothing worse than queueing for the lvl 60 roulette with your week's lore purchase in sight, only to get ARF (and realize you'll have to queue for something else afterwards). It takes longer for less lore payoff. What gives?

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

Make ARF give as many lore tomestones as the patch 3.1 dungeons. Nothing worse than queueing for the lvl 60 roulette with your week's lore purchase in sight, only to get ARF (and realize you'll have to queue for something else afterwards). It takes longer for less lore payoff. What gives?

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They won't do that because ARF is technically easier, so people would farm it and ignore the current dungeons.

The problem with giving it any specific loot is that people would then farm it just for that, making it as undesirable experience to new players as what the main quest roulette has become. That's why I don't think any specific loot, like craft materials or minions or what not would improve it. If it would give the same loot as Fractal and Never reap it'd be "just another dungeon" for the rouletters.

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Originally Posted by Sida

The problem with giving it any specific loot is that people would then farm it just for that, making it as undesirable experience to new players as what the main quest roulette has become. That's why I don't think any specific loot, like craft materials or minions or what not would improve it. If it would give the same loot as Fractal and Never reap it'd be "just another dungeon" for the rouletters.

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How would it be undesirable to new players? The only cutscenes are short ones at the end, and it's not completely faceroll difficulty like CM/Prae thanks to the 180 ilvl sync. Plus as a 4 person party, you really can't exclude the tank or the healer from a boss fight, and you'd be better off waiting through the cutscenes then the boss taking almost twice as long because you pulled while one of the DPS was in a cutscene.

Relocate this dungeon to the Main Scenario roulette. That is what the dungeon actually is. It's a main story dungeon.

If person queuing is Level 60, Main Scenario roulette should give 120 esoterics and 100 poetics for completion once per day. This matches the Level 50 roulette output for a Level 60 character. If person queuing is Level 50-59, same rewards that it currently has. This keeps the Facility from being farmed while allowing fresh Level 60 players one more avenue to catch up with. It would also be another avenue for those working on anima relics to pick up two much needed resources for it.

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Originally Posted by Miakisaki

Relocate this dungeon to the Main Scenario roulette. That is what the dungeon actually is. It's a main story dungeon.

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The reason ARF is not in the roulette, is because it is a 4-man instance, not an 8-man one like the dungeons in this roulette. There are other Main Story dungeons but they are not in the roulette for the same reason (Among others in the case of Snowcloak, The Antitower and The Keeper of the Lake)

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

We decided to include the Aetherochemical Research Facility in the level 60 roulette in order to make it easier for new players to complete the dungeon as part of the main scenario for Heavensward. We'd like to consider adding rewards if necessary, so please continue to submit your suggestions with that goal in mind.

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Have the second boss drop two chests and the last boss 1 chest from the i160 loot table. This will halt first boss farming, and give new players a possible stat boost for the last leg. Simultaneously balancing the rewards with the mutually grouped duties.

And an Alarum minion, a small appreciation gift for all of us running it since 3.0 ;D

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

The reason ARF is not in the roulette, is because it is a 4-man instance, not an 8-man one like the dungeons in this roulette. There are other Main Story dungeons but they are not in the roulette for the same reason (Among others in the case of Snowcloak, The Antitower and The Keeper of the Lake)

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The Mentor roulette features all sizes of group content, 4-24 players. It is definitely possible to put 4 and 8 man content together, and the 120 esoteric addition to the roulette will make that much more alluring to those who need to gear up or work on their anima. The obvious difference between those dungeons you listed and the Facility is that the Facility has no loot... much like Castrum and Praetorium.

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Originally Posted by Miakisaki

The Mentor roulette features all sizes of group content, 4-24 players. It is definitely possible to put 4 and 8 man content together, and the 120 esoteric addition to the roulette will make that much more alluring to those who need to gear up or work on their anima. The obvious difference between those dungeons you listed and the Facility is that the Facility has no loot... much like Castrum and Praetorium.

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The other issue with MSQ roulette is that its suppose to help queues for the aforementioned 8 man dungeons, the point I was trying to make with my last comment is that if ARF was placed there, it would have an effect on queues for the results could range from

1. the 120 Poetics being replaced with maybe 60 Esoterics or so (Since the dungeons themselves only give 20 unless a new player is there, this makes things a little harder for people wanting anima weapons due to the fact that the require Poetics for certain items an is one of the few daily sources for a large amount of poetics.
2. If the Poetics reward is retained, people will treating Castrum and Prae like the Plague because they could potentially get the same tomes from a shorter instance. (especially if the vast majority wants cutscenes, thought that is sadly a rare occurrence)
3. In addition, if ARF is added, the the dungeons currently in there have to compete with a dungeon that can fill 2 groups with the same people use to fill one of them means that queues would be affected, (Then again, that might be for the best anyway as it makes PF more appealing and might as result of more people PF the dungeons solve the ongoing story vs tomes debates that plagued those dungeons since launch)

Speaking of Point 3, yes Mentor roulette can potentially place a player in any instance regarless of size, an to the lesser extent the Guildhest roulette can place anyone in the last hest (Solemn Trinity. an 8-Man instance) but, I think that players using that roulette would most likely be placed in Regular Dungeons (4 Man content). The odds of them going into 8-Man content are lower, and the odds for 24-Man Content are very slim.

I entered this duty for the first time since MSQ during Early Access the other day. It was an in progress duty where only two very lovely DPS remained, the tank & healer bailed as soon as they realised where they were. The DPS had waited quite a while before I arrived. We still waited something over 15m (probably more, we were chatting) for a tank who then proceeded to take us through like the real star they were. We all had immense fun & the gil drops seem quite decent, however it's a long dungeon & the last bosses aren't that easy, even with us all at i200+. Certainly not the smooth kills of any Expert Roulette dungeons (in my opinion).

There definitely needs to be drops relevant to the work done, or a drastic increase in the tomestones awarded when run at lvl60 post-MSQ. I'd go as far as saying 120 Poetics, 100 Esoterics & 25 Lore. The current 50 Eso & 10 Lore is just derogatory given the work.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

The other issue with MSQ roulette is that its suppose to help queues for the aforementioned 8 man dungeons, the point I was trying to make with my last comment is that if ARF was placed there, it would have an effect on queues

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1. The roulette would provide esoterics -and- poetics at Level 60 and poetics only at Level 50. Main Scenario roulette is not very attractive at all right now at 60.
2. ARF is roughly the length of Castrum and somewhat shorter than Praetorium. Should anyone leave because of Praetorium, grats on their 30m DF detention.
3. Except you are adding a large pool of Level 60 players that would have otherwise avoided the roulette due to earning esoterics to help withn catch up gear and anima items.

Fair enough, but I still find it unlikely because only Mentor and Guildhest roulette are the only ones where the party size is variable. The former was only recently added and they are but 2 out of 9 Roulettes (Expert, 50, 60, Trials, MSQ, Leveling and Frontlines are the other 7). And that by your logic (ARF is a dungeons at the end at the MSQ, thererfore it should be placed in MS roulette) then the Light Party sized versions of Ifrit, Titan and Garuda don't belong in Leveling (In fact I rememebr there being a thread where its OP complained about that) but in Trials, because that is what they are. SE doesn't seem to like to having duty roulettes where the the instances are made for different party sizes, regardless of how much sense it would've made.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

And that by your logic (ARF is a dungeons at the end at the MSQ, thererfore it should be placed in MS roulette) then the Light Party sized versions of Ifrit, Titan and Garuda don't belong in Leveling (In fact I rememebr there being a thread where its OP complained about that) but in Trials, because that is what they are.

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Sure, why not? I see nothing wrong with moving story primals to Trial roulette. People who queue for leveling roulette then have a much better chance of rolling a dungeon where they can get xp in as well as the roulette bonus.

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Originally Posted by Miakisaki

Sure, why not? I see nothing wrong with moving story primals to Trial roulette. People who queue for leveling roulette then have a much better chance of rolling a dungeon where they can get xp in as well as the roulette bonus.

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When you get a trial in leveling roulette, the roulette bonus is adjusted accordingly though.

I love getting a story trial in Leveling roulette. 3 mins for several hundred thousand exp.

I'm not against having ARF in the lvl60 roulette, but the RNG is awful, in 13 day straight, I had 13 Antitower, and 12 ARF !! This is getting really old, always doing the same instance >__<

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Originally Posted by Aura_Shurifon

I'm not against having ARF in the lvl60 roulette, but the RNG is awful, in 13 day straight, I had 13 Antitower, and 12 ARF !! This is getting really old, always doing the same instance >__<

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It almost seems to default to ARF now if all members of the group have already cleared it. I've never seen a bonus message so we're not helping new people through, just running it with those who've already cleared it.

Best part of dungeon is the boss who turns into all the old coil bosses. reminds me of the times I faced those bosses for the first time

Melusine still my fave, and still remember the night we finally cleared her after all those shrieks and people shouting "PETRIFACTION!" over TS lol

Thinking about this last night I wondered why it isn't in the Levelling Roulette given that it's part of the storyline (I assume it still is anyway). It's a Light Party duty so has no place in Main Scenario but definitely would be better suited to Levelling.

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

Thinking about this last night I wondered why it isn't in the Levelling Roulette given that it's part of the storyline (I assume it still is anyway). It's a Light Party duty so has no place in Main Scenario but definitely would be better suited to Levelling.

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It is lvl 60 dungeon. Why it should be in leveling if you can't level up anymore?

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Originally Posted by Galborion

It is lvl 60 dungeon. Why it should be in leveling if you can't level up anymore?

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It's a part of the storyline that needs to be done, every other 4-man storyline dungeon is in the Levelling Roulette & ARF stands out. Theoretically Levelling Roulette could be termed Storyline Dungeon Roulette & it would leave true lvl60 duties, which are intended to be optional content (although we all know they're not), in their own category. Currently once ARF pops the vast majority of players will drop immediately because it's in lvl60 roulette & exceptionally rare to get someone in it who needs it for the storyline, thus holding bonus tomes.

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

It's a part of the storyline that needs to be done, every other 4-man storyline dungeon is in the Levelling Roulette & ARF stands out. Theoretically Levelling Roulette could be termed Storyline Dungeon Roulette & it would leave true lvl60 duties, which are intended to be optional content (although we all know they're not), in their own category. Currently once ARF pops the vast majority of players will drop immediately because it's in lvl60 roulette & exceptionally rare to get someone in it who needs it for the storyline, thus holding bonus tomes.

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There is alreadya Storyline Roulette though, also Snowcloak, Keeper of the Lake and Antitower are also MSQ dungeons, while Aurum Vale, Dzemael Darkhold, Cutter's Cry and Dusk Vigil are optional Dungeons

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

There is alreadya Storyline Roulette though, also Snowcloak, Keeper of the Lake and Antitower are also MSQ dungeons, while Aurum Vale, Dzemael Darkhold, Cutter's Cry and Dusk Vigil are optional Dungeons

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I mustn't have access to Storyline Roulette because I've not seen it. Is it something that the Mentors have access to?

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

I mustn't have access to Storyline Roulette because I've not seen it. Is it something that the Mentors have access to?

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Main Scenario Roulette

INB4 Semantics arguments