Goad - the ability that doesn't exist

I forget goad exists 90% of the time whenever i do play nin. Come to think of it no one really asks for it after getting to 60.

I recently unlocked rogue. What shocked me was that Goad is such a low level skill. I though it wasn't being used because it was a higher level skill. (learned at level 40+)

Rolling Archer now and just unlocked Swiftsong a few minutes ago. I didn't know it was a level 22 skill.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

It really isn't fair, no.

Goad:
No DPS loss
No usage time, can be weaved off-GCD
Does not interfere with any other abilities

Paeon:
DPS loss
Costs time and MP to put up / maintain
Prevents the usage of another song, usually something more helpful like Requiem

That's not to say Paeon should never be used, but your insinuation that Goad should only be used in the same situations that Paeon should be is ludicrous.

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Maybe you didn't get what I actually said. I said that 9/10 times by the time I could goad the bard, there's typically multiple people that need tp, including the tanks, so they should be using Paean anyway.

No goad when i played mnk but Got a lot of goad when I played blm ...

I still sometimes forget to activate Kiss of the Wasp/Viper until I'm partially through a dungeon. I have to be particularly awake to notice someone else running out of TP to warrant Goad.

If you are a 60 WAR and you run out of TP you must be doing something wrong. They should never need goad

I use Goad all the time on people who need it or those that I can see will need the TP help. The Bard is not always the person most in need of it, it depends on the situation.

I always goad other members, priority being given to tank of course and yes Bards, even if they never sing once .......
It is also true PLD uses up tp, maybe not as much as War but still
Also lately i have been needing to use smoke screen alot, lol

You know what's sad? It says it restores the TP of a party member. Since it doesn't work on yourself, it implies you are not a member of the party but rather...something else. Maybe a monster nobody likes, or a lesser being.

/inferioritycomplex

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Originally Posted by Zojha

You know what's sad? It says it restores the TP of a party member. Since it doesn't work on yourself, it implies you are not a member of the party but rather...something else. Maybe a monster nobody likes, or a lesser being.

/inferioritycomplex

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We are the drivers. That's what SE was trying to teach us with AS2.

my typical day in a dungeon with bard

tank pulls
huton, ir b4b katon kassatsu katon/doton (depending on tank sanity level) then goes into death blossom spam + invig
hits 100 tp 20 something seconds later, siwtches back to single target rotation
glances at party tp gauge, sees bard at 80%, casting wind bite, ofc no paeon
goads him anyways as a reminder to check party tp gauge
still no paeon

contemplates placing shadewalker on brd on the next boss pull


on a serious note, the bards not singing paeon when there is a melee dps aoeing and running out of tp, in most cases, ninjas
are you guys not singing because you assumes ninja aoe is terrible and not worth your 15% dps
if thats the case, then i would like to clarify something here

ninjas can aoe, we do a decent amount with b4b ir death blossom spam, as well as 20s off gcds katon and doton
its just we have terrible tp sustain while aoeing. because death blossom is spammed every gcd, and we have 2 second gcds.
its not like mnk rockbreaker where they only use it every 3rd gcd on top of their extra purification, if mnk decides to fis of destroyer (which they normally shouldnt) they run out just as fast

also
85% of bard aoe dps + 100% of nin single target dps is still better than 100% of bard aoe dps and nin doing nothing because we are out of tp.

so yea, if the bards are complaining about us ninjas not using goad, chances are we arent getting paeons when we literally have 0 tp and you are sitting at 80% tp waiting for a rain of death proc.

I was running A4N with two ninjas, and I was on PLD. The NIN goaded the MNK who was at around a half bar while mine was on the verge of running completely dry. It was awesome.

At least MNK can cross class invigorate???

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Originally Posted by Alahra

We are the drivers. That's what SE was trying to teach us with AS2.

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But I don't wanna be the driver... I wanna slay gobbies. :(

*kicks rock and prays for better AoE in 4.0*

You cannot see the cooldown of your fellow dps's Invigorate. Just because they are low on TP doesn't mean their Invigorate isn't 5s away from being available at which point it's a waste to use Goad/Paeon.

If you really need it, you ask for it.

As someone who raided on Bard for like 1y and 1/2 pretty much non-stop, I think I maybe know the feeling you are actually talking about. People always complain about you having songs up when barding, even when the song is already playing: "OMG BALLAD NAO!" "Ballad is up, its BEEN up, stop holying and maybe you'd have some mana dammit!"

So basically, are you saying, "Doesn't this also apply to other jobs with support abilities? What about ninja?" Most people only think of bard when it comes to a job with a support ability. I mean, the bard's symbol is a musical instrument right? I get it... I really do.

But yea, it's more a problem about how easy all the content is maybe beyond savage mode. No one cares about tactics, strategy, when just headbutting it works almost as good etc. Even if you can help people shave a few minutes off your dungeon run...well... that requires talking to your teammates usually... The bane of everyone's existence. NPCs aren't supposed to talk.

Just because you are perhaps a good bard, it doesn't mean everyone who plays bard is. Nor does it mean anyone is trying their best. This game doesn't require it. Necessity is the mother of invention.

PLD running out of TP is a joke, right? I mean, sure, maybe if you're an OT and reduced to the role of DPS because there are no adds for you to pick up. PLD shouldn't run out of TP during, actual, tanking. Weave some flash in, and save yourself from running out of TP and doing even less DPS.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

I was running A4N with two ninjas, and I was on PLD. The NIN goaded the MNK who was at around a half bar while mine was on the verge of running completely dry. It was awesome.

At least MNK can cross class invigorate???

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Yes.
And MNK have 2 TP recovery skills. Invigorate (restores 500 TP) from Lancer and Purification (restores 300 TP) at lv 58

Nah, I get Goad cast on me all the time... AS A SCHOLAR! >_<

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

Nah, I get Goad cast on me all the time... AS A SCHOLAR! >_<

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LOL....they wanna see you sprint. They need your heals ASAP go run to them!!

I think the same could be said for BRDs that don't use Foe's when I bring BLM into a dungeon. It happens all the time.

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Originally Posted by HakaseNyan

PLD running out of TP is a joke, right? I mean, sure, maybe if you're an OT and reduced to the role of DPS because there are no adds for you to pick up. PLD shouldn't run out of TP during, actual, tanking. Weave some flash in, and save yourself from running out of TP and doing even less DPS.

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You obviously have never been in raid scenarios as PLD. PLD has the worst TP management of all three tanks so far, as MT AND OT. DRK at least can use MP for more skills, and WARs can pull TP out of their arses with Equilibirum.

simply ask for it

you're already juggling enough as a ninja without having to keep track of everyones TP as well

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Originally Posted by tjw

You obviously have never been in raid scenarios as PLD. PLD has the worst TP management of all three tanks so far, as MT AND OT. DRK at least can use MP for more skills, and WARs can pull TP out of their arses with Equilibirum.

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How, exactly, is it obvious? You're, actually, wrong, but I am still curious how you've come to the conclusion on your own.

Maybe make a macro announcing your TP is low? That's what we had to do before TP bars were added.

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Originally Posted by HakaseNyan

How, exactly, is it obvious? You're, actually, wrong, but I am still curious how you've come to the conclusion on your own.

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PLD has the most TP issues. This is about as clear to anyone who raids as your unnecessary amount of commas.

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Originally Posted by HakaseNyan

How, exactly, is it obvious? You're, actually, wrong, but I am still curious how you've come to the conclusion on your own.

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Paladins use the most tp out of the three tanks, much more so if they need to stun.

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

Apparently, Goad has been removed from the game. That can be the only reason that Ninjas never give me (brd) Goad when doing heavy aoe. This is only slightly an exaggeration. I figure I get goad from less than 5% of ninjas.

This is the case regardless of what other jobs are in the party. In fact, I rarely, if ever, see Goad being used on anyone at all.

My songs are always up as appropriate. Perhaps you can play your job as well? Just a thought.

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Best reason for no goading:

Ps3 Limitations

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All Bard party buff songs (except swiftsong) will put you on the agro list of any mob once you get into max range distance away. There doesn't need to be any other action or party hate. Sometimes I actually need to step out of the arena entry to pre cast Foe's to avoid accidentally pulling the boss.

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No, they don't. I can run around in the overworld with Ballad/Paeon up and nothing cares. Run around with Requiem up though and I will aggro everything I pass by.

If the same thing happened with Indi-Poison GEO bubbles in FFXI (the first spell a geomancer gets), people would have considered that a big problem. Yet here in this game, nobody seems to bat an eye at it except me.

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You know what's sad? It says it restores the TP of a party member. Since it doesn't work on yourself, it implies you are not a member of the party but rather...something else. Maybe a monster nobody likes, or a lesser being.

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I took issue with that phrasing too. Same with Eye for an Eye.

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PLD running out of TP is a joke, right? I mean, sure, maybe if you're an OT and reduced to the role of DPS because there are no adds for you to pick up. PLD shouldn't run out of TP during, actual, tanking. Weave some flash in, and save yourself from running out of TP and doing even less DPS.

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Yes, rock that zero-damage Flash at that late point into the fight when hate should be firmly on you anyway.

Your post was a joke, right?

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

...I use the dots only in situations where the mobs will be alive long enough for it to make a difference...

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Wind Bite + Venomous Bite must be on the mob for maximum Sidewinder damage....

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

One problem that I tend to see is that people don't really read the chat log. They keep their eyes on the action and don't pay much attention to other stuff.

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I actually have a chime for Party comments. Most runs are asocial enough that I don't need to worry about it chiming in enough to annoy, and I have tunnel vision. ((Also sometimes gets me killed by non marked AOEs from Chimera and Cyclopi but that's an entirely different issue.))

Reasons I don't Goad:
1. I'm focused on DPS.
2. I forgot that they actually put the TP bar in the party list and don't watch it.
3. I have NO idea if you've already used your Invigorate.

It is not the Ninja's job to manage your TP. If you need a Goad, ask. As far as your experience with that one Ninja, sorry?

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Originally Posted by DisFlavored

Reasons I dont Goad:
1. I'm focused on DPS.
2. I forgot that they actually put the TP bar in the party list and don't watch it.
3. I have NO idea if you've already used your Invigorate.

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As a Ninja myself, I find this attitude to be rather lazy. I have no issue with using Goad if I can see another party member in need. Who cares if they used Invigorate already? I don't ever hear someone complain that I used Goad on them before they had a chance to Invigorate.
Yes, we are DPS, but there's no reason we cant offer support as well. We can help other party members maximize TP usage at no loss to our own damage whatsoever. If Goad required some semi-complex mechanic that took away from your own ability to do your job, then I may take issue with it. However, its a simple way to aid your teammates and I see no reason why a Ninja should actively ignore that you even have it.

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Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

I actually have a chime for Party comments. Most runs are asocial enough that I don't need to worry about it chiming in enough to annoy, and I have tunnel vision. ((Also sometimes gets me killed by non marked AOEs from Chimera and Cyclopi but that's an entirely different issue.))

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I turned on a sound effect for my party chat so I always hear when someone's said something (regardless if they've added a chime in or not).
I really hate it when people just DON'T look at party chat. Why? What are you doing? If you need to stop and read whatever I just said fine but don't just ignore it.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

As a Ninja myself, I find this attitude to be rather lazy. I have no issue with using Goad if I can see another party member in need. Who cares if they used Invigorate already? I don't ever hear someone complain that I used Goad on them before they had a chance to Invigorate.
Yes, we are DPS, but there's no reason we cant offer support as well. We can help other party members maximize TP usage at no loss to our own damage whatsoever. If Goad required some semi-complex mechanic that took away from your own ability to do your job, then I may take issue with it. However, its a simple way to aid your teammates and I see no reason why a Ninja should actively ignore that you even have it.

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I'm not ignoring the fact that I have Goad. Nor am I saying that I never use Goad, I guess I should have said reason's why I usually don't. It's usually #2.
If asked, I will provide it. Sorry if my forgetfulness comes off as lazy :/

Goad goes almost exclusively to Tanks when I go Ninja.

After that, DPS who can't cross class invigorate take priority to DPS who can cross it (and if you can you should).

So Bards, Mechanist, Monks, Dragoons, and other Ninjas are usually on their own. Especially when Bards and Mechanists have TP recovery skills of their own.

Come to think of it, are there even any Melee Dps that actually CANT use invigorate.as a cross skill?

I don't goad bards because if they're low on tp that means that I'm even lower. And if they have goad they won't song.
So quit your whining. You're also wrong in saying that WAR is the only tank that needs goad.
A2s the WAR gets goad. Most other fights it's the PLD.

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Originally Posted by DragonSlayer45

I use Goad, but I hate the whiners who act like I can use Goad every 30 seconds. I can only buff one, which is why I have a priority: PLD/DRK > WAR > other DPS who use TP.

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Why on earth would warrior need a goad. They are like the TP sustain gods at the moment.

I always goad the other DPS when doing large group AoE but sadly a lot of non-mage DPS I met in DF didn't do AoE. Many ninjas didn't trade goad with me even after I goaded them.

but you have to understand this: Goad has a fairly long cd and mostly can be used for one group of enemies and it'll be down for the next group.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

Why on earth would warrior need a goad. They are like the TP sustain gods at the moment.

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I can count the amount of times I've seen a DF WAR switch to Deliverance for Equilibrium TP restore on one hand.

As a Paladin, I get goad rather often. As a DPS, I neither expect it not receive it very often. As a Ninja, I'll dole out goad in order lowest to highest TP and then by class of tank > DPS. You know how many times I've used goad on a Bard? Never. It's really not been an issue. Smart players know how to manage their TP, and use invigorate wisely. Those who don't usually slap on Paeon and save me the trouble.

Truth be told, if a ninja uses goad on a Bard it's because there's literally no one else in the party who needs it. I'll always prioritize those who hit the heaviest and use TP the most before the support classes. Bard has a good AoE skill which use zero TP, so use it.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

Why on earth would warrior need a goad. They are like the TP sustain gods at the moment.

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During lower levels it can be a god send before WAR gets some of it's higher level toys to play with. At lower levels Berserk + Bloodbath + Overpower spam can be a great way to deal with a big or nasty pull, several SV pulls spring to mind, so does the big pull in the first zone of DD. I used that combo in many of the HW dungeons too as it's so effective, especially if the healer isn't the best. I haven't leveled NIN yet but when I do as soon as I see a WAR go into OP spam he's getting Goad.