ninja pulling hunts

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Here's a counter question for you:

What makes the people who get there on the back of someone who found it, pulling it for them before they're ready, any better? Both sides are equally just as bad in my book. I hate the whiners who complain about early pulls. I hate those who go out of their way to grief others by pulling ASAP.

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If you're standing infront of it but somehow not ready, then you're not ready.
If someone else made it there, and is ready, and they pull, then what's there to complain about? You should have been ready faster. Pulling right away is not griefing.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Here's a counter question for you:

What makes the people who get there on the back of someone who found it, pulling it for them before they're ready, any better? Both sides are equally just as bad in my book. I hate the whiners who complain about early pulls. I hate those who go out of their way to grief others by pulling ASAP.

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If you're there standing in front of the hunt, how are you not ready?

These are open world mobs, not raid bosses.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

If you're there standing in front of the hunt, how are you not ready?

These are open world mobs, not raid bosses.

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cuz they're "not ready" until 200 of their friends and Linkshell members are there too, and 200 of THEIR friends and linkshell members and....

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Originally Posted by Ilitsa

cuz they're "not ready" until 200 of their friends and Linkshell members are there too, and 200 of THEIR friends and linkshell members and....

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then 10mins of drama follows on shout lol i dont even do hunts for that reason :P i find it amusing if im in the map and the arguments on shout over early pulls goes on forever :P

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

then 10mins of drama follows on shout lol i dont even do hunts for that reason :P i find it amusing if im in the map and the arguments on shout over early pulls goes on forever :P

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I actually keep one of these in my inventory for quick linking at hunt drama:

http://puu.sh/n2nB9/6bd9b25992.jpg

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

then 10mins of drama follows on shout lol i dont even do hunts for that reason :P i find it amusing if im in the map and the arguments on shout over early pulls goes on forever :P

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its why I avoid hunts too, the "community" ruined the enjoyment. Lol

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I actually keep one of these in my inventory for quick linking at hunt drama:

http://puu.sh/n2nB9/6bd9b25992.jpg

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It's things like that, that make me like you, despite having never played together. Lol

I don't know why people are going nuts over the hunts. Other than that dragon mount and possibly whatever glamours from the 2.0 vendors, there's really nothing worth it to be losing your sanity.

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Originally Posted by Ilitsa

its why I avoid hunts too, the "community" ruined the enjoyment. Lol

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i seriously do lol seen cat fights over the smallest things in regards to hunts.. only 1s i do are my weeklies and dailies if in the mood Xd a and s ranks?? not a chance lol
im the same with raids tho any content that has cat fights n drama i avoid takes the enjoyment out of playing for me

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

i seriously do lol seen cat fights over the smallest things in regards to hunts.. only 1s i do are my weeklies and dailies if in the mood Xd a and s ranks?? not a chance lol
im the same with raids tho any content that has cat fights n drama i avoid takes the enjoyment out of playing for me

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dude, no joke lol. I got called all kinds of names like 2 days ago for killing my weekly b rank by myself....after /sh it's location 2 or 3 times over the course of 5 mins. a B RANK! People are way out of control with this stuff, it's ridiculous

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Originally Posted by Ilitsa

dude, no joke lol. I got called all kinds of names like 2 days ago for killing my weekly b rank by myself....after /sh it's location 2 or 3 times over the course of 5 mins. a B RANK! People are way out of control with this stuff, it's ridiculous

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yup said it months ago would of ben better if removed the whole hunt system and added somethin else.. but really not fair to punish those who dont act like that ;/

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Originally Posted by MarcusFahlen

and so you mean to reset is to disrupting other players. but it is not disrupting other players then you pull befor no one is ther so it is only 4 who get it and like 8 players becioms mad for they dont get anyting for that person pulled then they were on the way

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A player who resets a hunt should be reported, because other players could have been there on time and died from some moves after dealing enough dmg to get full reward, then the reset comes and the reward turns to nothing. That's grievous. Pulling early is not grievous.

Meanwhile, while innocents but wild hunts are getting pulled...

Question, does the hunt can still be reset? Because when I was FATEing for the crystal earlier, there was a guy that soloing the FATE mob, but he can't handle it so he ran away. The mob apparently went after him, then it seems the mob lost interest and actually went for the next person instead of resetting its HP. Is it the same with hunt mob?

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Originally Posted by Neri

Question, does the hunt can still be reset? Because when I was FATEing for the crystal earlier, there was a guy that soloing the FATE mob, but he can't handle it so he ran away. The mob apparently went after him, then it seems the mob lost interest and actually went for the next person instead of resetting its HP. Is it the same with hunt mob?

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That behavior only applies to FATE mobs, but FATEs were designed for crowds, unlike the hunt.

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Originally Posted by LunaChild

Reporting player who played content as intended... srsly...

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I think you are misremembering the patch notes about the hunt:

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- Regular and Elite Marks
While regular marks denote enemies commonly found in the wilds of Eorzea, elite marks denote powerful enemies that only appear under certain conditions. They are ranked according to the risk they pose: rank B (lowest risk), rank A, and rank S (highest risk). In addition to the bounties listed on the Hunt board, elite marks will yield rewards including Allied Seals, Allagan tomestones of mythology, and Allagan tomestones of soldiery. Players are free to pursue elite marks without procuring an elite mark bill from the Hunt board, but they will not be eligible for the bounties stated on the bill. To learn more of the nature of these elite marks, players can consult the hunter-scholars stationed at every hamlet about Eorzea. After an elite mark is discovered, players should stand around for as long as it takes for the entire server to get there before attempting to fight it. If someone attacks an elite mark while players are still en route, everyone in the area should shout about early pulling and report that person.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

I think you are misremembering the patch notes about the hunt:

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For some reason that seems really fake.

Seems weird that they're saying you need to wait for the entire server for the hunt.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

For some reason that seems really fake.

Seems weird that they're saying you need to wait for the entire server for the hunt.

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I don't remember exactly where it was, but I think it was a live letter where Yoshi added that players should hold hands and sing Kumbaya while waiting.

The bit in bold was sarcasm. That said, the hunt community really needs to get over that they're entitled to every hunt mob.

Ah hunts, where a small amount of people actively go find them, and a large group of people do anything else and cry when they don't make it in time for credit.


I always get a kick out of people who don't actively hunt and think 20+ people should wait 10 minutes for them to teleport in, or everyone else is selfish.

To sum it up:
Same as savage is destroying statics -> its not against rules (depends on situation and GM) but it made the whole content toxic to the point that players fight each other!
And that is indeed a result of bad gamedesign!

@Yukiko This is not the fault of the dev. The dev placed hunts. The decision to fight / zer / pull earky is purely a decision from players. You cant blame devs for the attitude of the players. Tool is there to enjoy some stuff if some use it wrongly nobody elese to blame but those very same that use wtongly ... take your responsability as a player and stp blaming devs for your like of maturity.

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

Do you really hunt? What you describe isn't reality on my server!
If you are active hunting you are on the disadvantage because before you reach the hunt its already dead. It happens very often that you can not reach it in time because you were on other side of the map. Active hunting means to search for it and it will not spawn in front of you!

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Yeah, won't spawn on you while actively hunting. But AFK between mining unspoiled nodes? BAM, a-rank drops right down onto your head.

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Originally Posted by aesteval

Yeah, won't spawn on you while actively hunting. But AFK between mining unspoiled nodes? BAM, a-rank drops right down onto your head.

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Without the DoL community, Hunts LS wouldn't be able to support themselves.

Topic starter hasn't returned yet. I wonder why.

I should mention that at least in Sarg, it appears that the vast majority of 'hunters' aren't even actively hunting at all, just showing up when someone else finds something. You can pretty much tell when you only see like a dozen people or less actively hunting at any given time, and as soon as someone finds something, you suddenly see like three dozen people teleporting to the location, like clockwork. To those people, I have no sympathy. I actively hunt A-ranks/spawn S-ranks along with other FC mates, and we've never had any problems with people killing other hunt mobs before we get there, because we're usually the ones that actually FIND them in the first place.

Hell, my FC (and we're probably the reason why this thread exists in the first place) is probably responsible for 50-75% of the S-rank spawns in our server in recent weeks. Thanks to certain shenanigans (mainly someone roleplaying and pretending the hunt mob was a pet a few weeks back, which isn't even early pulling until someone joins in for real), we're pretty much blamed for early pulling all the time now, even if we're not doing it at all. There was someone salty enough the other day that she kicked a member of my FC from one of her parties when the hunt mob hit 10% HP (though he still got full credit because he was the tank, if anything that resulted in her party losing full credit). Later that day, when my FC leader joined her party as their tank, instead of casting Medica II to heal the entire party at once, she'd throw Regen on the other 7 members just to avoid healing her. Nevermind that she was pulling that crap on a S-rank that I spawned myself.

Basically in short, the vast majority of Sarg 'hunters' are lazy, and some take it to ridiculous levels in their spite. Hell, the definition of 'early pulling' has basically been stretched in our server to mean 'not waiting more than 5 minutes'. Because lord knows if I find one, I will wait a reasonable amount of time before someone else just shows up and pulls it themselves.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

@Yukiko This is not the fault of the dev. The dev placed hunts. The decision to fight / zer / pull earky is purely a decision from players. You cant blame devs for the attitude of the players. Tool is there to enjoy some stuff if some use it wrongly nobody elese to blame but those very same that use wtongly ... take your responsability as a player and stp blaming devs for your like of maturity.

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White Knight detected...

It is devs fault that monsters die within one minute where alone travel from top to bottom of same map takes you about 1,5 minutes!
Furthermore there were a ton of suggestions made by players here on lodestone forums and up to date devs dont even "answer"...
Once they added a so called fix and increased a bit monster life... you know what happened? After next patch new weapons all was back at where it was before the fix!

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

White Knight detected...

It is devs fault that monsters die within one minute where alone travel from top to bottom of same map takes you about 1,5 minutes!
Furthermore there were a ton of suggestions made by players here on lodestone forums and up to date devs dont even "answer"...
Once they added a so called fix and increased a bit monster life... you know what happened? After next patch new weapons all was back at where it was before the fix!

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To be fair, people in general need to learn how to get around the maps a lot better. I can't tell you how many times I see people teleport to Horizon when Alectryon is clear up in Cape Westwind or to Moraby when Unktehi is near the entrance to Mist. A lot of them just see the zone that it's in and blindly teleport to it without even opening up the map to see where in the area it is.

The devs can only give hunts so much HP before it's unreasonable for them to be killed during off-peak hours or on smaller servers.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

Later that day, when my FC leader joined her party as their tank, instead of casting Medica II to heal the entire party at once, she'd throw Regen on the other 7 members just to avoid healing her. Nevermind that she was pulling that crap on a S-rank that I spawned myself.

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It made me lol hard when they did that, cause it was someone's PF that we both happened to join.

I don't mindlessly beat on mobs with counter and warrior self heals are OP, so it's whatever. :3

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

To be fair, people in general need to learn how to get around the maps a lot better. I can't tell you how many times I see people teleport to Horizon when Alectryon is clear up in Cape Westwind or to Moraby when Unktehi is near the entrance to Mist. A lot of them just see the zone that it's in and blindly teleport to it without even opening up the map to see where in the area it is.

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Every time I tell people they can click on map coordinates in the chat log, they are surprised.
Then when I tell them they can click on the aetheryte from the map itself to teleport, their minds are blown.

Of course, knowing shortcuts from housing wards and ferries and such are also a plus, but the basics seem to be lost on so many. Perhaps much of their anger is that they're being called slow when they simply don't know a faster route? I try my best to help them with that.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Every time I tell people they can click on map coordinates in the chat log, they are surprised.
Then when I tell them they can click on the aetheryte from the map itself to teleport, their minds are blown.

Of course, knowing shortcuts from housing wards and ferries and such are also a plus, but the basics seem to be lost on so many. Perhaps much of their anger is that they're being called slow when they simply don't know a faster route? I try my best to help them with that.

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Oh, definitely. I try to tell people in my hunt parties and linkshells the quickest way to get there. The funny part is half of them don't listen even when I do. Marraco down in Boulder Downs? Derp, let's teleport to Dragonhead instead of Mor Dhona and then cry that it's dead by the time we walk halfway across the entire frozen wasteland of CCH. Sounds like a great idea to me!

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

The devs can only give hunts so much HP before it's unreasonable for them to be killed during off-peak hours or on smaller servers.

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That's why it's been constantly suggested to give A+ ranks dynamically scaling HP/stats based number of currently engaged players and average item levels. With a minimum set, of course, which would be the baseline difficulty that the devs want.

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Originally Posted by FaileExperiment

That's why it's been constantly suggested to give A+ ranks dynamically scaling HP/stats based number of currently engaged players and average item levels. With a minimum set, of course, which would be the baseline difficulty that the devs want.

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So... what, if more people show up and start hitting it suddenly it gains a bunch of HP even if it's already sitting at like 10%? Putting item levels into the mix seems like it would be unnecessarily resource intensive, especially for S rank hunts where you literally have hundreds of people in combat with them if they happen to pop during peak hours. I think people just need to accept that hunts weren't meant to be downed by half the damn server and resolve to do everything they can to get to the next one faster.

I don't even bother with A or S rank hunts anymore.
It doesn't have to do with early pulls or it dying before I get there but more with the horrible amount of lag I get when I get to the mark because of all the people there, even with effects turned off for people not in my party. I can't even DPS or heal enough to get full credit and usually end up with the bare-minimum of rewards. =A=

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

So... what, if more people show up and start hitting it suddenly it gains a bunch of HP even if it's already sitting at like 10%? Putting item levels into the mix seems like it would be unnecessarily resource intensive, especially for S rank hunts where you literally have hundreds of people in combat with them if they happen to pop during peak hours. I think people just need to accept that hunts weren't meant to be downed by half the damn server and resolve to do everything they can to get to the next one faster.

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Not sure how it would be done, but it's a good idea. As for your example, yes if a bunch of people joined at the last 10% (which doesn't happen all that often), then it would gain HP proportional to the number of people that join, though it wouldn't change the HP %. Not really a big deal, if the algorithm was tuned correctly.

And resource intensive? Possibly, but it's not our place to speculate on that, and it isn't productive either. If the devs wanted to do it, they could. They just don't. It's still a good and workable idea, though. I do agree on your last point, however. I would still have it scale anyway, so then it wouldn't matter what people do or don't accept about hunts.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

So... what, if more people show up and start hitting it suddenly it gains a bunch of HP even if it's already sitting at like 10%? Putting item levels into the mix seems like it would be unnecessarily resource intensive, especially for S rank hunts where you literally have hundreds of people in combat with them if they happen to pop during peak hours. I think people just need to accept that hunts weren't meant to be downed by half the damn server and resolve to do everything they can to get to the next one faster.

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Honestl, it works fairly decently, this is how WoW handles rare mobs now, the total stays at 10% but it gains a higher health pool with the more people that tag it, it's not perfect, but it's not bad in the slightest

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Here's a counter question for you:

What makes the people who get there on the back of someone who found it, pulling it for them before they're ready, any better? Both sides are equally just as bad in my book. I hate the whiners who complain about early pulls. I hate those who go out of their way to grief others by pulling ASAP.

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If you're there standing in front of the hunt, how are you not ready?

These are open world mobs, not raid bosses.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

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If you're standing infront of it but somehow not ready, then you're not ready.
If someone else made it there, and is ready, and they pull, then what's there to complain about? You should have been ready faster. Pulling right away is not griefing.

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You're arguing schemantics at that point. There are people who hunt independantly who get to the hunt - and while calling additional people / after announcing it to their LS's (Such as the ones who pull early, because let's face it - those people are more determined to find out the information to grief than anyone else is to keep them out), they weren't able to form a full party.

If you're not willing to admit the inverse, then to me that shows your bias - you need to be willing to accept both sides of this.

Basically; neither side is right. Neither side in the scenario I gave did anything to contribute. The only difference is, people fail to see the wrong in pulling ASAP (I'm trying to avoid the word 'early') is just as wrong as the people who ***** and moan about 'early pullers.'

Edit: Also wanted to add, that neither really addressed the question, which was : what makes the ASAP-pullers any better than those who want people to wait? Both ride the back of someone elses work, after all.

Edit 2: Formatting. I really prefer multiquotes.

It may be socially wrong, but it's not against the ToS where a GM would be involved, my man.
People can and will do it. The topic creator here had contacted a GM about it, which is what sparked this conversation.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

It may be socially wrong, but it's not against the ToS where a GM would be involved, my man.
People can and will do it. The topic creator here had contacted a GM about it, which is what sparked this conversation.

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Right; forgive me - I may be missing the mark of the topic with my own bias. I dislike the people who try to call people 'whiners' for disliking early pulls, but the most common reason I see cited is that they 'didn't do any of the work so they have no right to complain.'

I dunno. Perhaps it's the hypocrisy of those thoughts that get under my skin a little. I don't think I'll change anyone's opinion on the forums, but... Eh. Coming to a meeting of the minds with other individuals is also a beneficial thing to me.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

You're arguing schemantics at that point. There are people who hunt independantly who get to the hunt - and while calling additional people / after announcing it to their LS's (Such as the ones who pull early, because let's face it - those people are more determined to find out the information to grief than anyone else is to keep them out), they weren't able to form a full party.

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You don't need a full party to get credit though. I frequently get full credit solo. It's easiest to do on a tank, but a WHM can also do it. I've never really understood why people hunt on DPS classes if they have any choice in the matter at all.

I also don't understand why people persist in equating "early pulling" with "griefing."

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If you're not willing to admit the inverse, then to me that shows your bias - you need to be willing to accept both sides of this.

Basically; neither side is right. Neither side in the scenario I gave did anything to contribute. The only difference is, people fail to see the wrong in pulling ASAP (I'm trying to avoid the word 'early') is just as wrong as the people who ***** and moan about 'early pullers.'

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I don't have any bias either way. If people wait, cool. If people pull, oh well. It's a mob in the open world. There are no claim rules for it. It doesn't matter who found it. It can basically be pulled at any time by anyone for any reason. I just roll with it.

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Edit: Also wanted to add, that neither really addressed the question, which was : what makes the ASAP-pullers any better than those who want people to wait? Both ride the back of someone elses work, after all.

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That's because there's no real answer to that question. Neither can be said to be "better" than the other.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I also don't understand why people persist in equating "early pulling" with "

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Simply put: people remember the bad experiences of people who pull early to troll more than the people who are simply self entitled or impatient.

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That's because there's no real answer to that question. Neither can be said to be "better" than the other.

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Fair nuff - you seem to understand the point so I'll take it at that.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Right; forgive me - I may be missing the mark of the topic with my own bias. I dislike the people who try to call people 'whiners' for disliking early pulls, but the most common reason I see cited is that they 'd idn't do any of the work so they have no right to complain.'

I dunno. Perhaps it's the hypocrisy of those thoughts that get under my skin a little. I don't think I'll change anyone's opinion on the forums, but... Eh. Coming to a meeting of the minds with other individuals is also a beneficial thing to me.

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Well that whole conversation gets into what is defined as an early pull. Does the person who never actively hunts and shows up late (as in at least five mins after every call) have any right to whine about missing the marks?

I see that happen all the time. When I hunt, most of the time I am actively hunting, and tend to find and call out most of the hunts. I see people in my linkshells, who get the earliest possible notification showing up like 5-7 minutes after a call, complaining. Those same people never call out when they get there, and never actively hunt, they are 100% leeches. There is one guy, who when he joins a party, just accepts the tele, and stands by the aetheryte while others hunt, he still cries at being late...

All these leeches think that the people actively hunting owe it to the to wait for some reason. Apparently the people out there, putting the work in are the selfish ones. Heck while grinding my relic, I was hunting non stop, as tank so I could get solo credit it I had no party, people were raging on me for pulling the hunts I found, three minutes after shouting. Even if I wasn't the one to pull, because I would have aggro as a full STR WAR...


In my experience, these people are the most toxic part of hunts, not anyone who pulls early.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

In my experience, these people are the most toxic part of hunts, not anyone who pulls early.

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Ah, do not misunderstand. I usually roll my eyes just as quick as the people who complain about early pullers. But as I said, I wish for people to understand both sides of the sentiment - that there are extremes that exist on both sides, and both sides are, to me - equally as bad.


It may be a phenomena that is unique to Balmung, but there is an entire Linkshell devoted to pulling 'as soon as they get there' - they puropsely announce it in shout as they pull in an effort to antagonize people, and they do their best to make their presence known as much as possible. They're trolls, pure and simple.

You have people like this, who do no hunting, who revel in the fact that they pull before people can get there on the back of the actual hunters.

There are plenty of individuals from both end that epitomize that toxicity. I really wish we just had mutual respect from both sides.

Edit1: I want to add something, and forgive me for doing it after the fact.

I want to say I've been subjected to the 'this guy is an early puller' bull as well, so I am not unsympathetic with people on either side. I have been called an early puller, simply because I am a WAR using full-STR and I prime my Maim off the nearby wildlife before the pull (Thus securing me in a threat lead at the very start.)

I find it disgusting when people use those macro's that run by <tt>, And I'll often call them out and point out that no, I didnt' pull the mob. Yes, I'm holding threat on it. Some of these people need to put the pitchforks away. But at the same token, some of the people who are in a hury to try and pull the mob for whatever reason need to learn a bit of patience.

Pulling ASAP doesn't really serve anyone except the self/the people in the immediate area. That's fine in its own way, but it doesn't really help anyone. The people who want for a delay on the pulls, do want a better community - but it's clear they often don't understand that to build a strong community you have to start with yourself, as can be seen from the sheer amount of virtriol they spout.