PvP - Do we really want this kind of thing in Final Fantasy?

I'll do some PvP, there's a few people that I'd like to show the sharp side of my axe on Fabul. :)

Yoshi-p said that based on the numbers they have 15% are interested in PVP so it won't be central to the development of FFXIV although they will add it for those that want that challenge.

I like what I've read about the arena and Frontlines. As far as the balancing goes, if SE splits PvE and PvP abilities for each class and only balance the PvP abilities for PvP, then the game shouldn't be adversely affected on the PvE side.

i'm fine with PvP and i'm fine with no PvP. it won't affect my game. i might have a quick bash just to see what its like. but in general i'll be sticking to PvE

There are a lot of people who won't play FFOnline because there is no real PVP.. think of all the new players it will attract. One may argue that they don't want the wow crowd coming in and making the community crappy but.. crappy community > no community.

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Originally Posted by JackDaniels

There are a lot of people who won't play FFOnline because there is no real PVP.. think of all the new players it will attract. One may argue that they don't want the wow crowd coming in and making the community crappy but.. crappy community > no community.

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this is very true a lot of people i asked to come play with me refused because there was no type of pvp.

seriously pvp is a lot of fun. it lets you show off what you grinded your ass of for

Again this whole PVP debate and balancing bullshit? For christ's sake balancing classes is a GOOD thing! Ever heard of continuous improvement?

Plus what is it that you do not get even after SE and Yoshi-P said a million times, PVP is optional. If you don't like it then just don't do. Why do you feel the need to have to force everyone else to not do what YOU don't want to do?

And to finish... if you think that after making up their mind on this and having wrote a detailed plan and even started working on it, that they will decide to scrap everything based on your post then your delusional my friend.

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Originally Posted by Hardy

this is very true a lot of people i asked to come play with me refused because there was no type of pvp.

seriously pvp is a lot of fun. it lets you show off what you grinded your ass of for

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PVP is what made me leave FFXI for WOW and i can't say how many good memories i have made with my friends fighting others, ambushing... arenas, battle grounds etc..... it is very much fun.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

Again this whole PVP debate and balancing bullshit? For christ's sake balancing classes is a GOOD thing! Ever heard of continuous improvement?

Plus what is it that you do not get even after SE and Yoshi-P said a million times, PVP is optional. If you don't like it then just don't do. Why do you feel the need to have to force everyone else to not do what YOU don't want to do?

And to finish... if you think that after making up their mind on this and having wrote a detailed plan and even started working on it, that they will decide to scrap everything based on your post then your delusional my friend.

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Relax buddy, this is what forums are for. You know.. discussing crap?

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Originally Posted by Azmar

You are still making assumptions OP, maybe a little extreme on the freedom part but still just trying to say the post is ridicilous. I did nowhere say threads are only allowed if you are in favour. I clearly said several times only make a post if your neutral on it and show neutral points on both pro and cons. There is a reason people get mad at reviews of ffxiv when someone is biased towards the negative side.. and this is what you are doing. Except you are hurting the game from the inside now.

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The guy is just giving his opinion without crying, whining, offending anyone or whatever, get over it already. He ha an opition, he makes a thread, explains why he thinks that way and asks what the rest of the community thinks about it. How is that a bad thing, isn't that the freaking reason we have forums? TO DISCUSS STUFF?

You are basically saying we should only post positive stuff everyone is going to agree on ... that defeats the purpose no?

Personally, this falls into the "Don't care" category.

The best part about FF PvP? You don't have to even acknowledge it's existence. It's there for the people who will use it, and it won't impact the people who don't care.

Shouting "I don't want this feature in the game that I'll never use anyways! I don't care if other people will use it and have fun with it!" just ain't reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

Again this whole PVP debate and balancing bull<snip>? For <snip>'s sake balancing classes is a GOOD thing! Ever heard of continuous improvement?

Plus what is it that you do not get even after SE and Yoshi-P said a million times, PVP is optional. If you don't like it then just don't do. Why do you feel the need to have to force everyone else to not do what YOU don't want to do?

And to finish... if you think that after making up their mind on this and having wrote a detailed plan and even started working on it, that they will decide to scrap everything based on your post then your delusional my friend.

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1) Relax

2) I don't want to see the games unique spells homogenized or removed in sake of PvP balance, which is always a very real issue with some classes that can for example do a tonne of damage, or take a lot of damage.

The classes remain unique, until PvP becomes a factor.

Again I use WoW as an example, a Mage now has the same HP and defence as a plate wearing tank. They also share the same abilities. They have no unique factors about them.

I like that while my little CNJ can output quad figures, he only has to be glanced at to have his insides displayed on the outside.

Since the PvP areas will be in different instance-like zones, could they not just balance jobs for those areas differently than they do normal PvE zones? Sorry if this has been mentioned before, didn't want to read the entire thread while at work

I'm all for PvP so long as the PvP balancing, doesn't imbalance the PvE. PvE should take a priority every time imo.

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

I agree with adding optional PvP, but I also hope they are not going to make the same mistake Blizzard did. Blizzard is constantly (or at least was) balancing classes just to make sure PvP is balanced and fair for all classes. This kinda destroys the PvE aspect of the game from time to time.

FFXI did it right. They added PvP, but hardly balanced the classes for PvP. They just gave you the option to do it, but didn't care too much about it. I trust Yoshi to not completely destroy everything he worked so hard for just for the love of some PvP.

Personally I can do without PvP, but I know some people really want to see it, so I am fine with that as long as it is optional and you do not get balancing issues that completely destroy some classes in PvE aspect of the game.

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Actually it really ever effected any classes in WoW PVE when they did PVP adjustments and on the rare occasions that it did it was usually hot fixed the same week. You can say that it might destroy something for just some PVP but to players like me is something I was praying that SE would finally give us some real PVP Final Fantasy style. We are finally getting it and honestly the thought and how it is delivered is more important to me right now than any PVE content and I generally all about PVE content.

Personally I want to see a big portion of the game be dedicated to PVP especially since they are working it into storyline by using the Grand Companies and all that good stuff. I had faith in Yoshi before I saw FFXIV 2.0, now he has my undying loyalty and with his background in gaming I believe he will deliver us a PvP system that work great and doesn't conflict with PvE part of the game. I think he did mention in that post something about coming out with PvP only abilities and I am sure some will be PvE only. Using this method it would be 100 times easier to balance things.

@Vahzl, Again I use WoW as an example, a Mage now has the same HP and defence as a plate wearing tank. They also share the same abilities. They have no unique factors about them.

This isn't right totally either, don't know where you are pulling your information from.

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

1) Relax

2) I don't want to see the games unique spells homogenized or removed in sake of PvP balance, which is always a very real issue with some classes that can for example do a tonne of damage, or take a lot of damage.

The classes remain unique, until PvP becomes a factor.

Again I use WoW as an example, a Mage now has the same HP and defence as a plate wearing tank. They also share the same abilities. They have no unique factors about them.

I like that while my little CNJ can output quad figures, he only has to be glanced at to have his insides displayed on the outside.

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What you said about WOW has nothing to do with PVP. The game has become pure garbage and it is not because of PVP but rather they're restless attempts at dumbing down the game for non-gamers. They have just taken the dumbing down way too far.

The only upside is Yoshida is smart enough to not make PvP any type of central or important system.

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

What a great way to provide developmental feedback to proposed features upcoming, that could define the entire game.

Thumbs up for the most useless poster on the forums.

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I might have participated in this little thread of yours, but this attitude totally spoiled it for me.

A neutral option is perfectly valid (as in, if they want to add PvP in that's fine with me, but I wouldn't miss it if they didn't). Show more respect next time.

I cant wait to Doomspike II some Lalas!

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

The only upside is Yoshida is smart enough to not make PvP any type of central or important system.

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That's normal. WOW does a lot for PVP but it still is not a central part of the game. You can through the entire game without ever experiencing PVP at all, besides being killed sometimes by high level people of the opposing faction and even that i THINK can be turned off?

As long as PVP does not start to interfere with class balance in any way at all, i wont mind PVP being implemented.
The constant pvp/pve balance issues in WoW was 1 of the main reasons I quit the game.

What people are forgetting to mention is that WoW is so strictly balanced because they want it to be viable as an e-sport for professional tournaments. This was made even more clear when they stated Diablo III will not be balanced like WoW nor have the PvP focus as they want the different characters to be unique.

I highly doubt we will ever see professional FFXIV e-tournaments like WoW has.

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Originally Posted by Altera

As long as PVP does not start to interfere with class balance in any way at all, i wont mind PVP being implemented.
The constant pvp/pve balance issues in WoW was 1 of the main reasons I quit the game.

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Exactly what I was trying to say :)

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Originally Posted by Altera

As long as PVP does not start to interfere with class balance in any way at all, i wont mind PVP being implemented.
The constant pvp/pve balance issues in WoW was 1 of the main reasons I quit the game.

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PVP balancing and PVE balancing is the same thing. They involve the exact same things. If one class is over powered over the others then a lot of players will be chosing to play that specific class and others would complain about it so there comes the need for balancing.

Uniquenss comes from how the experience is when chosing a class. How the way you play will change. It's not about which spells is more powerful. Every class should be equal and only the gameplay experience should change. Sure some classes will have more def then others but the ones with lower def will have more attack to compensate. So there will never be any class that will rise above everyone else.

The problem with most games with pvp is that the pvp balancing effects the pve as well. SE has always been really good about keeping their hands off jobs and stuff when it comes to pvp so it does not effect pve. They did a great job in 11 and even tho there were god pvp classes no one really cared cause pvp was not that important and it was just fun. With the way they are doing it here i feel it will be the same concept. I like the way they are approaching pvp and keeping it in its own little areas.

I hate PvP I always have and I always will. I have always(and this is my opinion and I know I will get bashed for it) have thought PvP in a MMO is pointless as it's all for bragging rights in most cases and in most cases the person who can waste more time in the game and get the better stuff wins. It's almost never truly about skill and who is the better player.

All that said the great thing about PvP in SE games is that you don't need to do and they don't force you. The same seems to be true for what they have in FFXIV and as long as they don't add things the average PVE player could only get from PvP I don't care about it being in the game. But if they start adding story lines you can only see by doing PVP or Gear that isn't PVP related that can only be gotten via PVP then I will have a problem. But from the plans they outlined that doesn't seem to be the case.

I dont wanna read, too long... but just my 2 cents: I DONT like PvP, but since it will be limited to PvP-only zones (just like FFXI with Ballista, etc), then why not? People who like it will have the possibility to enjoy it... and why not, maybe I'll give it a try too! :)

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

and like this post if you don't want to see PvP in Final Fantasy XIV.

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I think them adding PVP fits nicely with their concept of trying to have something for everyone. I hope they keep it fun and lighthearted though. If they start offering end game gear or something you can't get anywhere else I think it could change the feel of the game. As long as it stays about having fun and offering different gaming options to players I see no problem with it. PLus, how awsome would it be to have some "Your LS vs My LS" stlye duals?

It wont affect the regular game play of FFXIV so I don't see nothing wrong with having PvP system.
It would be fun to just join in once in a while when you're bored or want to try something different once in a while.

YoshiP also mentioned where PvP can be used as a way to enter certain other contents.
So say Limsa vs Uldah vs Gird and Limsa wins this week, everyone in Limsa can try new _____ content.

would be interesting to see something like that imo while I'm sure people going to say if you do that one team will keep on winning to keep the content claim for themselves.

But to counter that YoshiP also said in the interview they want to make it where one group can hold the key to summon the primal and by doing that you should be able to beat the crap out of those guys :)

Yes, I love PVP. I doubt I will spend all of my time on it.. However when I run out of PVE stuff to do for the day and it comes down to crafting or logging off, I will log off. When I run out of PVE stuff to do for the day and it comes down to crafting or PVP, I will participate in PVP.

Dear OP: Who made the rule that "Final Fantasy" couldn't have any kind of PvP content? The only reason all final fantasies before FFXI didn't have PvP is because they were offline games. There's nothing more to it than that. Of course if almost every game is single player you're not going to "know" the series for PvP. That doesn't mean it can't have it and still "be" Final Fantasy.

It's not going to hurt you not to participate, so if you don't like it, don't do it. Stop hating on PvP and by extension, the people that enjoy and want it.

One thing is for sure: If I'm going to compete against anyone for any purpose, I'd rather it be competing against them in combat than competing against them for claim over an NM or the right to do <insert content here>.

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Originally Posted by Altera

As long as PVP does not start to interfere with class balance in any way at all, i wont mind PVP being implemented.
The constant pvp/pve balance issues in WoW was 1 of the main reasons I quit the game.

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Even if it does are you just going to quit because they have to take time to fix class balance? It's part of playing an MMO.

In FFXI's PvP, limited as it was, all balance changes for PvP ONLY affected PvP. PvE balance was affected in no way whatsoever, because the changes that occur are only active during PvP. It was nothing like WoW where any balance change affected the whole game whether it was intended to fix PvP or PvE.

PvP is a necessary part of an MMO. To have an MMO without PvP is to strip away one of the most vital and competative aspects of the genre.

To claim that the FF games are not about PvP is absurd because most FF games are not MMOs, so the same rules do not apply. You can't treat online RPGs the same as offline ones.

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

What a great way to provide developmental feedback to proposed features upcoming, that could define the entire game.

Thumbs up for the most useless poster on the forums.

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It's a valid poll statement. You don't PvP unless you want to, therefore, you can very easily not care at all.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/arti...-More-Bastards
This about sums up my views on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

Final Fantasy games are very clearly based on PvE content, being as they are filled with fantastic and mythical worlds, where story is your drive, and progression is your timeline. Fighting each other is not really in the spirit of the Final Fantasy way, as the games promote coming together to fight the greater evil, not petty battles between the same factions.

While I understand there are people that want to engage in PvP combat, let's try to recall what kind of a debacle "PvP" was in XI. We had:

- Ballista which was just awful, although good for catching your friends out by them not noticing you casting Freeze on them... hehehehe

- Brenner, which was kind of popular with some players on my realm, like they had regular matches and stuff, but the abilities are all so crazy varied in the game, there was little to no balance.

Now lets look at World of Warcraft, and see how that game is constantly being balanced and rebalanced due to the now central focus on PvP. Every ability has to match up to everyone elses, which basically has caused the game to be so homogenized, you basically no longer know what you are fighting, nor does it matter, as every spell and ability has a copied variant for pretty much all classes.

Also with PvP comes a massive amount of rage and anger from younger players, and causes more rifts than you think it might solve, and lets not forget how world PvP leads to ganking and abuse of the system.

This is something that worries me deeply with Final Fantasy, should the game take on a PvP focus. We could be seeing the end to Ancient Magic, selected classes having sleep spells, and class specific abilities as the balancing would be a huge job, but I want to know what people think.

On the flip side, PvP offers a play arena for people to settle disputes, take on each other, place bets and have a little clean fun inside a controlled environment. Some people get no better feeling than beating an equal in combat.

I admit I would love to see a little mini fun arena for people to have a fight with each other, but thats about as far as I ever want to see it go.

So like this post if you do want to see PvP in Final Fantasy XIV...

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Do you really need to complain about this? Their project said it would be on an island coliseum if I'm not mistaken. Either you like it/Don't like it, or just don't attend it at all. It was part of XI especially when Battle Royale competition that sweep'd with excitement. It just sounds like a bad personal experience in ballista.

i seriously cant believe how many peeps accualy sayed they want pvp. this is kinda crazy am i realy playing a ff game?

u make a topic like this on any other ff websight u would get trolled till the thread got locked.

but anyway it dont matter if u want or not, the new GD, witch i like for this reason. sayed he would consider hiself a pvp guy. witch meen this games pvp should be fun.

so if u want it or not its coming and for those of u that dont want it STAY OUT OF MY AREA lol cuzz i would love to kill some1 who doesnt want pvp in this game.

but just to troll the topic even more ima bring up the oldest arguments in the book witch im sure u will see alot of.

"pvp has no place in a game like ff where teamwork and comunitee relations is all that matter"

u see this is why im glad they making seperated servers and i only hope they make a few for pvp. cuzz i dont want to play with the rp peeps, honestly stoped getting entertained by that aspect of mmos 7 years ago.

in a game based on creating the strongest char and KILLing stuff, i want to test out my skills on something other than a mindless npc.

pvp is good, may not bring in the best persaonalitys, but eh as u can see by SE charging b4 the game finished they only worried bout making money anyhow.

Like this post if you like pie.

PvP is cool.
As long as there are specific areas for it.

Open World PvP is not cool.
Trying to get your things done and a group shows up and kills you lol.