Get rid of vote abandon

I can understand it might be quite annoying for a vote abandon to succeed when you wanted to keep going, but it happens so rarely that it's hardly something that needs to be "fixed"

Unless of course this happens to you on a regular basis... in which case... well maybe you are the problem, if you're groups are always abandoning because the runs are that dire?

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

I can understand it might be quite annoying for a vote abandon to succeed when you wanted to keep going, but it happens so rarely that it's hardly something that needs to be "fixed"

Unless of course this happens to you on a regular basis... in which case... well maybe you are the problem, if you're groups are always abandoning because the runs are that dire?

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where the heck did you see it happens rarely ? uh???? it happens ALL THE TIME actually.. how long has it been you run through DF with perfect unknows and NOT with friends? uh?

holly gully molly..vote abandon after 1 wipe ? always, vote abandon bcause one doesnt want to take the penalty ? more often then I can say..ths is the most abused tool together with the vote kick

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I'm not sure. Is there a penalty for leaving a group when someone has already left? I've sat in a dungeon for 20 mins waiting for a replacement healers before now and in the end the group just decided to Vote Abandon rather than just have people leave piecemeal and some poor sod dps who had been in the queue for 14 mins find themselves in a group that was going no where. Frankly there aren't enough people who tick the 'join group in progress' box.

Removing Group Abandon at the moment will probably mean sitting around for a lot waiting for your group to refill with people continually bailing cause half an hour penalty before joining again is better than sitting around for half an hour for new players.

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NO there are no penalty to leavea group if someone has already left and the spot wasnt refilled in the meantime..

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

I don't want to be held hostage by bad groups, and trust me when I say it happens a whole heck of a lot more than most people think. I got set back an entire day because of terrible a4 runs for my last 10 items for Relic. The players would rather dps and ignore orbs than actually get the orbs or pull dolls off healers. Sorry, but not sorry. Maybe increase the timer in raids to 30 minutes, but absolutely leave everything else the same.

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how do you get set back a day on this game? and nobody is held hostage, people tend to just vote abandon because people dont want to get the 30 min penalty, honestly if your time is being wasted by a bad group either leave and wait 30 mins or press on and hope it gets sorted, honestly if people in this game just explained things, it would run alot smoother,

Vote abandon is fine as is in my opinion. I have no problem with it personally. It doesn't happen too often in regular duties although it was a lot more common in 24 person raids like Sycrus Tower and World of Darkness especially when they were new.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

where the heck did you see it happens rarely ? uh???? it happens ALL THE TIME actually.. how long has it been you run through DF with perfect unknows and NOT with friends? uh?

holly gully molly..vote abandon after 1 wipe ? always, vote abandon bcause one doesnt want to take the penalty ? more often then I can say..ths is the most abused tool together with the vote kick

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Vote Abandon happens pretty rarely to me as well so where are you going with this?

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Originally Posted by Bracken

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Because I work, have a wife, and have to plan/flesh out everything I'm going to be able to do in game? When my only day to play for 8 hours is Sunday, the day I'm supposed to finish my Relic, and I get two days in a row of up to 4 hours of trolling and people doing flagrantly stupid stuff, it puts me BACK.

Until you HAVE a group that flat out says " hahaha, let them take the penalty, don't accept abandon, or don't kick them" or anything along those lines, I'm sorry to say you don't have a clue as to what is being discussed here. A removal of the vote abandon function enables these people further.

I'm not talking about inexperienced players. I'm not talking about new players.
I'm talking about the players that know they can keep you hostage by holding a 30m timer over your head.

I'm not taking a penalty timer so you or any of the very few others in this thread can push an agenda of VA needing to be gone because you/they/them can't deal with the fact people have a right to abandon groups that suck or are filled with trolls. Taking that away is holding them hostage.

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Originally Posted by Xanikk999

I just had a Void Ark group vote abandon after 1 single wipe

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Sounds like wiping in sastasha. That's one too many.

Why would you even vote abandon if only 5 people left? You could leave and not get penalty if YOU'RE THAT WORRIED ABOUT 30 MINS.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

Sorry OP, this was a group vote and you happen to be in the minority vote.

What SE should do, is create a "Drop from Duty" log. The more times you do it or get vote kick'd, the harsher your drop penalty becomes. Make it so that completing duties, lowers that penalty buff.

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^ This could be interesting idea.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

5 people left, and then VA was activated and accepted? Looks like people wanted out. Taking that away is holding them hostage.

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If 5 people left there is no penalty. How many times do I need to repeat this?Vote abandon becomes redundant as soon as one person leaves. Using VA in such group means YOU are wasting time of those who want to stay. Anyone voting yes could leave instead of dragging other people with you. Especially in the case of only one wipe like in the opening post.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

If 5 people left there is no penalty. How many times do I need to repeat this?Vote abandon becomes redundant as soon as one person leaves. Using VA in such group means YOU are wasting time of those who want to stay. Anyone voting yes could leave instead of dragging other people with you. Especially in the case of only one wipe like in the opening post.

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I edited that out almost immediately. Nice way to cherry pick that. I removed it because as I said I'm not discussing the OP's situation. Just what they want after the experience.

Here's what I have an issue with.

remove vote abandon from the game.

I dont want the vote abandon feature removed. It is useful and helpful.
The OP says 5 people left? This means there were 19 people who stayed. No one else was going. 10 of these people at minimum voted to abandon duty after wiping due to what I imagine would be lack of induty queues to fill the party. This would have left 9 people. The chances of the party filling up at this point are minimal and it most likely wouldnt have been completed. It could have even been more who voted.

Holding people hostage is very real in this game and it happens way more than the situation applied in the OP. A vote is as fair as it gets honestly and fresh void ark queues are fairly quick in my experince outside of maybe single queue as tank which takes a little longer. Me other way in the situation described it doesnt seek like the duty would have been completed or filled.

I agree with Laerad,
People criticizing him for bringing up a scenario outside of OPs scenario aren't seeing the big picture.

Imagine someone saying I got stung by a bee. We should ban bees. Someone else mentions the benefits of honey and cross pollen breeding for plants. You mention to this person hey were not talking about honey or pollen. Just bees stinging had nothing to do with OP. The hell it doesn't he is telling you affects that can happen by activating OP's presented rule set. You can ignore the troubles that come with said rule.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

I agree with Laerad,
People criticizing him for bringing up a scenario outside of OPs scenario aren't seeing the big picture.

Imagine someone saying I got stung by a bee. We should ban bees. Someone else mentions the benefits of honey and cross pollen breeding for plants. You mention to this person hey were not talking about honey or pollen. Just bees stinging had nothing to do with OP. The hell it doesn't he is telling you affects that can happen by activating OP's presented rule set. You can ignore the troubles that come with said rule.

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I hate mobile, cant* Stinging(,).

For those saying Vote abandon is a regular thing I just gotta ask. What on earth are you guys doing in your duties for this to be the case.

I'll admit, that there are some times that someone trolls void ark/24 with vote abandon spam but the only other place that I have ever seen a vote abandon is in turn 9 df.

If you remove the penalty for leaving you open up the door for something that 100% will be abused by people. If you remove vote abandon instead you also will have less people queueing outside of groups of friends in fear they are held hostage.

I feel they should stay as is with perhaps increasing the time between vote initiation for people so that helps prevent people using it to troll.

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Originally Posted by Andrea

I feel they should stay as is with perhaps increasing the time between vote initiation for people so that helps prevent people using it to troll.

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This is a great idea

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

I agree with op though, remove the vote abandon same as kick option.

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Also I had to post again just to point out how stupid this comment is. In no way should SE remove the kick feature. Doing so will result in less people running outside of groups of friends.

Why should I not be able to vote kick someone if they are truly awful or toxic? If a kick goes through it means the majority are ok with it. Why should 3/7/23 people be forced to keep someone in the duty who is either toxic or bad which are the only reasons I've ever seen someone get kicked for.

I can safely say if they removed vote kick I would stop running without friends except for roulettes, and I can only assume there are others who would also.

the vote kick and abandon are the least of the things that should be introduced in a game along of it of course the penalty. You can leave if you dont like something nothing forbids you to do it,why kick someone else ? beceause he is not like you? ESPECIALLY if you are going to abandon right after because nobody filled the ranks eh? THIS is stupid

Ohh was going to forget, not agreeing with you is not being stupid..just in case you think your comment so intelligent

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

the vote kick and abandon are the least of the things that should be introduced in a game along of it of course the penalty. You can leave if you dont like something nothing forbids you to do it,why kick someone else ? beceause he is not like you? ESPECIALLY if you are going to abandon right after because nobody filled the ranks eh? THIS is stupid

Ohh was going to forget, not agreeing with you is not being stupid..just in case you think your comment so intelligent

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Are you seriously saying we should remove vote kick? That's a terrible idea and I'm glad it will never happen.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

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The backlash on the forums would be grandiose in nature. Imagine LOTA,CT,WOD, and now VA without these features. Did you even play when the first set of raids were introduced? The amount of ready check spam IN combat, during boss fights, wiping groups consistently every run. What about the early pullers that would pull bosses out of the rooms, waiting for healers to let off a heal, wiping people right outside the gate? What about the people that spammed remove waymarks in WOD? You're seriously telling me people should have to deal with that, or "toughen up and take a timer"?

That's incredibly unfair and ridiculous to even consider. There is enough wrong with players in runs and raids than to give them another tool to utilize.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

Ohh was going to forget, not agreeing with you is not being stupid..just in case you think your comment so intelligent

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Your comment isn't stupid because I don't agree with it. It's stupid because it makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

I should leave because someone is toxic or their skill level prevents us from completing something? so 7 sometimes 3 I guess other people should suffer because YOU don't want a kick option. Doesn't sound selfish at all.

If someone has already been kicked then yes I can leave. Way to assume something about me when you dont know me. Could you please point out where i said I would abandon after I vote kick someone?

Finally I do not wish to be held hostage by people when their attitude or skill level prevents us from completing an instance or having fun playing the game.

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Originally Posted by Aethaeryn

Unless something has changed, it only takes 50%, which is not a majority. I know 4-man and 8-man stuff only takes half of the people voting yes.

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Its implied the one who initiated the vote is the '+1' in '50% +1'...

Lol @ ban vote kick.

The only people who like this idea are either toxic people who want people to deal with their trolling.

Or your realllllly bad at the game and people kick you a lot and you want forced carries.

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Originally Posted by Andrea

Your comment isn't stupid because I don't agree with it. It's stupid because it makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

I should leave because someone is toxic or their skill level prevents us from completing something? so 7 sometimes 3 I guess other people should suffer because YOU don't want a kick option. Doesn't sound selfish at all.

If someone has already been kicked then yes I can leave. Way to assume something about me when you dont know me. Could you please point out where i said I would abandon after I vote kick someone?

Finally I do not wish to be held hostage by people when their attitude or skill level prevents us from completing an instance or having fun playing the game.

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the fact that you think he is toxic is YOUR vision, the fact that others agree to it, doesnt mean they even saw that into it or even realized what it was (most people act as sheeps). You are grown up enough unless you are 13-17, to live up to what you want, you dont like somethin gyou leve, it hsouldnt be the one that you dont like to leave (in my opinion), be it because he is toxic or not...you still have that solution, albeit I also said that the penalty should be removed at least for the 3 first time, after that 1h or 2h of penalty should be introduced.

Your vision doesnt make it a reality, you might want to keep that in mind.

Besides you just showed the type of person you are, automatically labelling someone NOT of your opinion as an idiot, I guess this is also reflected in your attitude in-game right ?

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

Besides you just showed the type of person you are, automatically labelling someone NOT of your opinion as an idiot, I guess this is also reflected in your attitude in-game right ?

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I dont like something I should leave? so if there is one person in the instance, that everyone else agrees is toxic we should all just leave instead of having the option of removing the problem?

Do we play the same game? The amount of trolling in 24 man raids with early pulling and afk whatever else and you want the option to not be able to remove these people?

Nowhere did i claim my vision makes it a reality if anything thats what you're doing.

So you can tell what kind of person I am from a forum post. Thats amazing skill. Again its not because i don't agree with you. Its because if you had thought for a few seconds you would understand why it could and will be abused.

I will argue that the vote kick function is heavily abused, and nobody has found a reasonable way to lower the frequency.

If a player is doing their job and being amicable, what could possibly be a good excuse to kick them?

I think the OP has a good point that's being sadly overlooked by a number of people.

The current system demands a few things:
1) if you join for a duty, regardless of what is happening, you are stuck or you are forced to take a 30 minute penalty
2) If you join a duty and vote abandon, people who want to stay are forced out if the vote abandon is successful.


These are the two things the OP is attempting to address. The concept of making it so that if you spend 15 minutes or likewise beat the first boss enables you to leave without a Cooldown is a very good idea. It will allow people the freedome to exit of their own accord, for whatever reason, after putting in effort.

Most people will not leave after the first boss without a reason. Especially with the new way void ark loot was done to try and prevent the early leavers. The concept of the 30 minute penalty does nothing for this, and just encourages people to Pokeball their way out of a duty if they don't want it.

Removing the Penalty after 15 minutes has elapsed or likewise if the first boss has been defeated would serve to be a boon to the system.
Enabling players who voted they do not wish to vote abandon to stay in a duty would be a boon for anyone who wants to continue to attempt the duty with new faces., but does not mitigate the above.

I don't really understand why other people Vote Abandoning means I'm forced out. I'm fine if the majority leaves and waiting for replacements. No one wants to take that ability away from people.
I think the first idea, to remove Vote Abandon and allow someone who has been there for 15 minutes or has beaten the first boss to leave at their own leisure, is a good idea because it removes issues from everyone.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

I will argue that the vote kick function is heavily abused, and nobody has found a reasonable way to lower the frequency.

If a player is doing their job and being amicable, what could possibly be a good excuse to kick them?

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I'll totally agree, people do abuse it at times and if everyone is doing their job it isnt needed.

But to say it should be removed will cause even more abuse thats all im getting at really.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

where the heck did you see it happens rarely ? uh???? it happens ALL THE TIME actually.. how long has it been you run through DF with perfect unknows and NOT with friends? uh?

holly gully molly..vote abandon after 1 wipe ? always, vote abandon bcause one doesnt want to take the penalty ? more often then I can say..ths is the most abused tool together with the vote kick

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I've maybe seen it used twice in the past three months. People leave much more often than they vote abandon.

I never see anyone kicked or vote abandons. It happens so rarely in PT's i am in. I always tank though, so maybe that is it. The only times we have kicked or abandoned in random PT's is when there was an actual problem. If you are getting kicked all the time or abandoned on, maybe the common denominator in the equation is, you?

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

holly gully molly..vote abandon after 1 wipe ? always, vote abandon bcause one doesnt want to take the penalty ? more often then I can say..ths is the most abused tool together with the vote kick

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I can probably count the number of vote abandons I've seen on one hand. I rarely see anyone get vote kicked from instances for reasons other than being offline or afk for longer than five minutes. You have been quite vocal here and in other threads about your disgust for vote kick and abandon. If you see this happening often, perhaps you should consider the common denominator as Acyd mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

In wow which has a similar dungeon finder and raid finder similar to FFXIV the way they do it is. If you leave a dungeon/raid before the first boss is killed or less then 15 min have passed you get a 30 min lockout out. If 15 min has passed or the first boss has been killed you can just leave without penalty.

Honestly that does seem to work better then the whole vote abandon thing, cause people who don't like the group can leave people who want to stay and stick it out with new people can stay.

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Personally, I do think this sounds like a better system.

However, at OP and others, do you really run in to this that often? This seems like such a rare and minor issue. If you are seeing Vote Abandon or Vote Kick come up often, it's quite possible you are holding your teams back :|

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

I can probably count the number of vote abandons I've seen on one hand. I rarely see anyone get vote kicked from instances for reasons other than being offline or afk for longer than five minutes. You have been quite vocal here and in other threads about your disgust for vote kick and abandon. If you see this happening often, perhaps you should consider the common denominator as Acyd mentioned.

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^^^^^^^Please listen to this^^^^^^^^

If you're getting kicked constantly and in parties that frequently abandon the problem is you.

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Originally Posted by Xanikk999

I recommend that they just flat out remove the penalty from leaving a duty in progress if one boss is dead and remove vote abandon from the game.

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There is no penalty if someone left while 1 or more party slots are already empty. Only the first person get the penalty (if not kicked).

But I don't know how it is in an alliance.
No penalty if you left your full group while members in one of the other 2 groups are missing or still a penalty because your group is full?

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Originally Posted by Felis

There is no penalty if someone left while 1 or more party slots are already empty.

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That isn't really relevant. The OP is asking for no penalty if no one has left and the first boss is dead. That way people that want to give up can just leave, rather than voting abandon so they can requeue.

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Originally Posted by Felis

The OP said that the vote abandon spam started after 5 players left.
So, next time OP can just inform them that they can just left the alliance without getting a penalty and that they don't have to spam vote abandon.

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My bad, I totally misread the OP

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

That isn't really relevant. The OP is asking for no penalty if no one has left and the first boss is dead. That way people that want to give up can just leave, rather than voting abandon so they can requeue.

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The OP said that the vote abandon spam started after 5 players left.
So, next time OP can just inform them that they can just left the alliance without getting a penalty and that they don't have to spam vote abandon.

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Originally Posted by Felis

The OP said that the vote abandon spam started after 5 players left.
So, next time OP can just inform them that they can just left the alliance without getting a penalty and that they don't have to spam vote abandon.

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You're missing people's point. The RULE that OP is proposing would cause problems outside of the OP's specific situation. Which is why you see so many people bringing up alternate scenarios.

I've been getting my weekly Void Ark clear late in the week, joining in progress. I almost always get a fast queue for a run ~30 minutes in, that has just wiped on the penultimate boss and had rage quitters. Apparently the rage quitters are a large part of the reason for the fail, because the runs tend to go pretty smoothly after they've been replaced.

I have yet to join in a run that was in the middle of a vote quit, although I had that happen several times in the Crystal Tower runs back in the day.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Its implied the one who initiated the vote is the '+1' in '50% +1'...

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Nope. Once again, unless something has changed: If you do a 4-man dungeon and vote dismiss someone or vote abandon, only one person has to vote yes and it will pass. I dunno about 24-man, but I doubt it's any different. One person initiates it and only 11 people have to click yes. It's not a 'majority' if that's the case. I barely ever vote dismiss anyone even if they're doing less damage in a level 60 dungeon than a decent player could do at level 50 (like the blm I had last night...), so maybe it's changed.

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Originally Posted by Aethaeryn

Nope. Once again, unless something has changed: If you do a 4-man dungeon and vote dismiss someone or vote abandon, only one person has to vote yes and it will pass. I dunno about 24-man, but I doubt it's any different. One person initiates it and only 11 people have to click yes. It's not a 'majority' if that's the case. I barely ever vote dismiss anyone even if they're doing less damage in a level 60 dungeon than a decent player could do at level 50 (like the blm I had last night...), so maybe it's changed.

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Only one person has to vote yes because, as he said, the one who iniated the vote is considered as having voted yes.

4 people. One person (The subject) doesn't get a vote.
that's 3 people
1 is implied yet (Initiator)
2 people vote.

Only one has to vote yes because that's 2/3 people voting yes.

I think that's what he's trying to say?