the 2016 Frontline tier list

DRKs are basically monks with more health, their burst isnt bad mind you but you cant really compare it to a WAR or DRG

also popping living dead before you engage is kinda retarded because you are assuming they will burst you down in the buff time, instead of just waiting to react with it

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Originally Posted by UlricCraft

People Purify heavy? Nobody does that.

Darkside: +15% damage
Carve: 450 potency

Maim: +20% damage
Deliverance: +5% damage
Deliverance 5 stack: +10% Crit
Internal Release: +10% Crit
Berserk: +50% attack power
Fell Cleave: 500 Potency

OK. DRK does as much damage. I don't know what I'm talking about.

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Lol, what an objective and factual comparison, thank you for your input. Let's just look at damage buffs and not include the offensive off GCDs that DRK can weave into it's opening burst. Because reasons.

Darkside up, Blood weapon and Dark arts prepped beforehand, Unmend 150 (ranged, cast before plunge to get the GCD rolling, GCD will be up by the time plunge + low blow finishes) plunge 220 potency + low blow 100 potency, hard slash 150, C&S 450, syphon strike 220, dark passenger 250. 1770 potency within 3 GCDs when taking into account Darkside.

WAR will have heavy swing 150, Maim 190, brutal swing 100, fell cleave 500 (not neccessarily in that order) + Berserk and IR buffing their damage.

That's 1530 potency within 3 GCDs with a higher crit chance. (this is taking into account Berserk being up for all the attacks, but maim not being up for heavy swing and maim since you need to prep it WITH those GCDs). Both tanks have access to Full Swing which should be traited so i'm not including that into the calculation.

So that's extremely similar levels of burst, and yet you think DRK does no damage? Yeah, right.


And again, my point wasn't that DRK is the best, or that WAR is shit, because I think all 3 tanks are very good. People just have no idea how much damage DRK can output when played correctly.

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Originally Posted by CeveArthu

DRKs are basically monks with more health, their burst isnt bad mind you but you cant really compare it to a WAR or DRG

also popping living dead before you engage is kinda retarded because you are assuming they will burst you down in the buff time, instead of just waiting to react with it

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When you have an entire alliance of trigger happy people, they do NOT check buff bars. If you plunge into an entire group like that, they will blow absolutely everything to kill you. I also rarely do this, it's really risky and funny, but when it works it gives your alliance time to shit all over the enemy or run away.

I think like 1 out of 10 people play DRK to the maximum, it just isn't a class "to be scared of"

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Originally Posted by xxczx

I think like 1 out of 10 people play DRK to the maximum, it just isn't a class "to be scared of"

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to be fair that goes for all classes

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Originally Posted by CeveArthu

to be fair that goes for all classes

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Yeah I agree but some classes are easier to play than other classes. SMN is your basic 1-2-3, WAR is Fell Cleave and hope for the best, etc.

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Originally Posted by Praesul

And again, my point wasn't that DRK is the best, or that WAR is shit, because I think all 3 tanks are very good. People just have no idea how much damage DRK can output when played correctly.

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DRK brings damage, but it's really in a two-horse race - I would never replace the first few Paladins with a Warrior or Dark Knight, and Warrior's defensive utility is fantastic, especially for self-preservation. You more or less have to be an exceptional DRK to meet the offensive potential of a decent WAR, but you're still missing a huge part of what makes Warrior amazing and not bringing a whole lot in exchange.

Personally, I think one of those visual grid tier charts (the ones where the y axis is "Top" to "Low" tier and the x axis is "Has Faults" to "Well-Rounded," with some variations) would be a little bit more interesting to make since there are jobs with varying degrees of strengths and benefits (a SMN may be strong, but it is in no way "well-rounded").

but-

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Originally Posted by Kyani

snip

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I think that's an accurate break-down of the healers in a 72-man setting.

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Originally Posted by UlricCraft

Assumes I was referencing the post-screen overheal nonsense. :^)

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I'm not really sure what else you'd be referencing? White Mage's "real" throughput isn't much higher than Scholar or Diurnal in a group fight, especially when you factor in how much better absorbs are than overhealing. Scholar's best healing doesn't even show up in the combat log - a crit Adlo shield is going to do way more for a focused target than all of the surrounding Benefic IIs and Cure IIs, but it counts for way less.

Agree 99% with Ulric's list. Only thing I'd swap would be sch for pld (I see 3 sch on team, i'm like yeaaah....I see 3 plds and I wanna punch a baby lala.) As for the DRK vs WAR debate..lets put it in colorful terms, k? Drk = Knitting a sweater. War = Butt Secks. How do these stack up? Knitting a sweater improves hand eye coordination, enhances hand/finger muscle strength, lowers blood pressure, improves pattern recognition, stimulates artistic ability, allows one to bring joy to a homeless person, improves the economy of the local community via the yarn store, gives farmers the will to get out of bed in the morning to shave the shee... *sigh* Just say it with me Praesul: WAR > DRK.

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Originally Posted by Kyani

DRK brings damage, but it's really in a two-horse race - I would never replace the first few Paladins with a Warrior or Dark Knight, and Warrior's defensive utility is fantastic, especially for self-preservation. You more or less have to be an exceptional DRK to meet the offensive potential of a decent WAR, but you're still missing a huge part of what makes Warrior amazing and not bringing a whole lot in exchange.

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DRK also brings better CC than WAR. Brutal Swing + Holmgang is very good at locking down an important target, yes but DRKs can prevent an entire party from running away. They also have a blind, but it's not as spammable as PLDs.

Also I would argue that DRK does better damage outside of their burst, too. If a WAR doesn't have Berserk, they have to prep maim every time they engage someone, build up to 5 stacks of Deliverance, (Or infuriate) to Fell Cleave. DRK requires no prep, and can instantly use it's highest damage combo at no loss.

WAR definitely wins in the self preservation department though, and they're a better job to 1v1 with by far.

Edit: Whoops, forgot WAR has Mythril Tempest too. So their CC is pretty close, but still not as good as PLD.

As a BLM 50% of the time, I try and find other BLM, since BLM are the easiest kills.
72 man BLM is dumb.

Granted I have never played MCH so I don't know anything about their skills, but the only reason I know that they exist in FL is because I occasionally see those turrets lazily defending a node now and then. Bards have great AoE disruption and can solo protect a node from a safe distance until backup arrives or until someone finally gets fed up and decides to pursue them. Bards have a jump back, bind and three heals which makes them great at escaping hazardous situations even when against multiple opponents. They have a preemptive Esuna which, when paired with their Knockback, Bind and Purify, makes them effective at aiding with the escape of teammates who are being harassed during a retreat, as well as temporarily incapacitating enemies during node captures/defence - not to mention being a period safeguard for priority teammates prior to engagements. They have Requiem which only further strengthens their group effectiveness. And finally, they have a very potent burst combo that can instantly down a healer if they are kept busy enough to think that their 60-70% health gauge is enough to protect them for the time being.

Not sure what to say about mobility since I assumed Gauss Barrel was the exact same as Minuet, but it's a simple case of dropping it when you don't plan on consistently attacking from a stationary position.

Paladino is real pvp king, I'm not to worried about frontlines but I have this feeling that dark Knight will have a place In wolves den. They will be able to peel quite well for dps taking burst and healer as well. And every bit of cc counts in the den.

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Originally Posted by TriksteR

https://i.gyazo.com/731b6b72c7762329...a04101ebdf.png
I beat ya. git gud :D

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yo trick i just did this right now https://i.gyazo.com/d1f5bc72a9e617d5...63bb42f8e9.png

ITT premade epeen

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Originally Posted by JammyTo

yo trick i just did this right now https://i.gyazo.com/d1f5bc72a9e617d5...63bb42f8e9.png

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Take a screenshot where you're the only Gilgamesh Adder visible in your party and maybe someone will care.

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Originally Posted by Knahli

MCH Talk.

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MCH are great due to their insane burst damage.
In PVE they are #1 on the DPS rankings for the first 20seconds due to how intense their opener is.

MCH Opener Video:
Good luck keeping up with that's happening!

They can force TEN ATTACKS in a row, all off global cooldown in less than 10 seconds.

As for their mobility, it works similarly to WM, except that their 1-2-3 combo has a 50% chance to proc on the first shot making the next attack instant cast.
This means 50% of the time using only their standard attack can they move around for 3 seconds.

Bards don't get that.

Machinists who plonk their turret on the node are sacrificing so much damage to be a nuisance and that certainly isn't their reason for being in FL.

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Originally Posted by UlricCraft

MCH are great due to their insane burst damage.
In PVE they are #1 on the DPS rankings for the first 20seconds due to how intense their opener is.

MCH Opener Video:
Good luck keeping up with that's happening!

They can force TEN ATTACKS in a row, all off global cooldown in less than 10 seconds.

As for their mobility, it works similarly to WM, except that their 1-2-3 combo has a 50% chance to proc on the first shot making the next attack instant cast.
This means 50% of the time using only their standard attack can they move around for 3 seconds.

Bards don't get that.

Machinists who plonk their turret on the node are sacrificing so much damage to be a nuisance and that certainly isn't their reason for being in FL.

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Thank you for explaining ^^ I guess I have just been lucky to encounter inexperienced ones and never have witnessed their full-potency focus.

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Originally Posted by Knahli

Thank you for explaining ^^ I guess I have just been lucky to encounter inexperienced ones and never have witnessed their full-potency focus.

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Line of sight them and escape (good for any ranged), or wait for them to draw closer and sprint next to them, their ranged penalty nerfs their dmg hard, and with no defensive cooldowns, you can burn them quick. Everyone has a weakness. :)

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Originally Posted by Nirokun

Line of sight them and escape (good for any ranged), or wait for them to draw closer and sprint next to them, their ranged penalty nerfs their dmg hard, and with no defensive cooldowns, you can burn them quick. Everyone has a weakness. :)

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Haha. Honestly, I can't recall any Bard or Machinist giving me much trouble in PvP so I don't tend to given them a second thought when I spot them. I've only seemed to have had one up and close encounter with a Machinist who went out of his way to 1v1 me when I just wasn't interested, but when he was leaving me little choice I just ended up bursting him down really quickly even after his small lead in damage and after he got his stuns and silences in(or whatever those disables were); so my limited experience with them didn't give me very much to go on. Then again, everyone is saying BLMs are deadly but I don't seem to notice them very much either. Just annoying Summoners and their Sprint-casts ;;; I guess in my experience they just don't seem to pay too much attention to me unless I'm in the middle of the crowd and/or being stun-locked.

Exactly why I dropped brd. To its credit..mch can at least counterburst with grauss up while still running for its life. Brd has no choice but to take it raw all the way home when someone closes...

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Originally Posted by Nirokun

Line of sight them and escape (good for any ranged), or wait for them to draw closer and sprint next to them, their ranged penalty nerfs their dmg hard, and with no defensive cooldowns, you can burn them quick. Everyone has a weakness. :)

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The penalty for being closer to players w/ WM/GB active isn't at harsh as you may think anymore.

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Originally Posted by Houston009

The penalty for being closer to players w/ WM/GB active isn't at harsh as you may think anymore.

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I usually play smn, and unless I'm caught unawares (which does happen sometimes and I'm swirling the camera to find them while looking at minimap), I usually can manage as my burst is practiced and very fast. That being said, there have been some very talented MCH who have bursted me down before I could do anything, but more often than not I usually get away because I know what they can do and the gun-shot sounds are distinctive. It's the same reason I don't like to give any indication I'm around when I play smn, nothing but Tri-disaster to let you know I'm about to ruin your day. Don't give them the chance to react and you're more likely to secure the kill.

Someone mentioned DRK / PLD?

I could align them with my DRG >_>"

http://i.imgur.com/MS3IWD4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/T0Mc6uG.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/JxQtYt9.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9ZyuXFl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/AWfu1r0.jpg

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Originally Posted by Tarta

As a BLM 50% of the time, I try and find other BLM, since BLM are the easiest kills.
72 man BLM is dumb.

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As BLM I hate to kill BLMs XD
Expecially because if I saw a BLM focus me, I just move a bit and he will be probably out of range, also we have manaward, instant sleep, a trashy Letargy.
When I have Equanimity I think Bards are far more eatable, or Tanks when they think they can rush in the mid of a party alone and they basially allow u to PvE rotation them, a critted Fire IV hit for 4500 Hp without damage mitigation buffs.

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Originally Posted by Holicccc

Blackmage in the right hands is a pretty damn scary class, monk can make summoner pretty useless by taking all their stacks in pretty rapid succession I might add (one elm punch)

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I like to think of Monks as the anti SCH class. But the quality of monks at 60 isn't as good as it was at 50.

For Healing if we are setting tiers AST and SCH can't be on the same level. AST is the best all around. A good AST can way out heal a good sch. It is pretty hard for schs to break 1 million healing. While ast can do it regularly and WHMs can break 2 million.

How are we ranking each class heals, tankiness, usefulness, pure kills, pure dps? I would actually prefer a full vit drk in contested 72s over the other tanks. They are hell to put down and they have the best interrupt.

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Originally Posted by Houston009

http://i.imgur.com/9ZyuXFl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/AWfu1r0.jpg

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How did you get 21 kills in a 24 man? I know you are good but healers would have to be non existent to let that happen. Makes me wonder what a 24 man no healers no warriors match would be like.

Fell cleave made them non-existent :P

DRK over PLD? Get out of here. I put up SMN numbers on my PLD sometimes..

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Originally Posted by Jubez187

DRK over PLD? Get out of here. I put up SMN numbers on my PLD sometimes..

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I would really love to see a screenshot of your PLD doing 400k+ damage.

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Originally Posted by Jubez187

DRK over PLD? Get out of here. I put up SMN numbers on my PLD sometimes..

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That is the problem with this list we haven't determined a criteria to rank people. I want a Dark that holds a node. You want kills. I never look at damage that closely, but Aether has some PLDS and DRKS that both get lots of kills.

Straigus Reyist Fel Cleave is why I don't go full HP in 72 man. 18k in damage in a few cool downs is so over powered. Thank god warriors don't have a dps limit break.

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Originally Posted by Stormrider

That is the problem with this list we haven't determined a criteria to rank people. I want a Dark that holds a node. You want kills. I never look at damage that closely, but Aether has some PLDS and DRKS that both get lots of kills.

Straigus Reyist Fel Cleave is why I don't go full HP in 72 man. 18k in damage in a few cool downs is so over powered. Thank god warriors don't have a dps limit break.

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Paladin is a much better class for forming a defensive line, and for keeping a node against a competent enemy team.

Honestly, of the three tanks, the DRK is probably the most less useful one. The -only- thing they can do is literally using LD to buy a node an extra tick or two. However, PLD has more defensive capability and stun lock to boot. I don't even need to mention what Warrior can accomplish.

Sorry haven't been able to post for a few days, someone got the joke on page 3

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Originally Posted by Rhode

You would haven to make a tier list for each job type. PLD, DRK, and WAR all function completely different than WHM, AST, and SCH and should be in no way compared to them in the same list.

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The thread's over we can all go home now

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

Honestly, of the three tanks, the DRK is probably the most less useful one.

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Reason why i dont use DRK in FL is that it lacks support(Tar Pit is good if you can coordinate 2 caster LB's tho)specially a knockback that other 2 tanks have and that damn combat "bug" in pvp is irritating as it sucks your mana if you are not tapping out of darkside constantly(it also screws nin's hide). Its good for solo tomelith defence due LD and unleash while having a decent burst but i still prefer PLD and WAR, as one has good group support while other is mean killing machine that can take beating.

All three can rackup kills alot if you just frag in there so "ratings" should not be based by kills/dmg but rather utility/survivability/support they offer imo.

It's not really a bug, it's happens in PvE too.

As long as nobody hits you, you can hide right next to an enemy plus if someone dies and nobody else hit you or any healer is nearby casting cures, you can hide again.

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Originally Posted by xxczx

It's not really a bug, it's happens in PvE too.

As long as nobody hits you, you can hide right next to an enemy plus if someone dies and nobody else hit you or any healer is nearby casting cures, you can hide again.

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Wierd as in PvE i didnt have any issues with Hide, back in secure when i used to play as nin it sometimes took 30-40s after fight before Hide was usable(could instantly mount but not hide). Maybe it has been changed.

But anyway bug or not its annoying as fuck and something should be done to it if possible.

To be honest I feel like Putting AST SMN and WAR into their own SS+ Tier.

SMNs burst is superior to anything else. The only down side is that they're squishy but Tri-Bind, Misty Veil and X-Potion usually help out alot but it's kinda stupid taking this into account on DPS. A DPS should kill and SMN excell at that with ease. Their squishiness shouldn't be a factor as the other DPS aren't that -much- better. A DRG will die to 3 DPS attacking him just as much a SMN will die to 3 DPS attacking him.

AST may not be the best in keeping up the party but as long as they stay out of range they can do what a WHM can do, not as good as them but in case they get attacked, they're near invincible. Not to mention the card buffs like Bole Ewer and Spear shine a lot more in PVP.

WAR is ridiculous. Burst, extreme defense at points, self heals. Not much to say, they're at points superior to DPS.

None other jobs can achieve what those 3 jobs can achieve WITH EASE.