The Xp and the PL problem are not "Fixed"

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Originally Posted by viion

But right now for a casual player it probably does take 1 month to hit a cap. I run a site dedicated to this data, all the data points from new characters to a long pushed out grind.

People think that all new players will join and hit 50 in 4 days and it does not work like this. If you are hardcore sure it will but that is not the hardcore route.

You either prolong hardcore levelling so that casuals are fked and have to wait months, Or you keep it how it is so casual players can take a month+ to hit 50 where as hardcores can do it in no time atall.

and guess what, everyones playing more often now.

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For now, until they hit cap in every class next week and then just stand around in uldah complaining that there is nothing to do.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

For now, until they hit cap in every class next week and then just stand around in uldah complaining that there is nothing to do.

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Unless they have a LS who is dedicated to levelling them or friends willing to do it then its doubtful.

And if they complain so what? Is levelling up "Something to do?", its an activity and some people dont like it.

Even if I took my sweet time I'd still hit 50 and could complain there is nothing to do... Your point here makes no sense.

What If i just spent the last year getting my first 50? I'd be like FK YEH! woo 50, now what to do. after a week I'd burn through all end game content and could say "wow nothing to do now, just wasted a year and this is all there is?".

The time it takes means nothing to the activities endgame, its completely separate.

sorry its a really bad idea to balance the game around the desires of the hardcore audience. While yes, you can get to level cap in 3 days, and get 100k exp parties in the perfect set up, exp is a lot lower for smaller groups, links are more challenging, and playtime in terms of how much they can play in one day is less.

If you really want to be hardcore, that option is available, when you add materia grind to the game, the amount of hours you can spend exping increases exponentially.

As far as linking giving more exp, well that makes perfect sense, it is actually much harder to survive multiple monsters at once than it is to kill one at a time, it is also more fun.

Keep in mind that doing leves, you can get about 8-9k in 7 minutes at cap. which means 8.57 leves per hour, which means 77k an hour. Since everyone said you should be able to get more exp grinding than doing leves, or at least similar, so it didnt encourage people to log off, sounds like 90k for the perfect party in the perfect place is about right.

Understand that you are not the norm, there are people who can only play a few hours a day, and cant form the perfect group everytime they play, everyday. They cant imediately hop on linkshell and make a magic power super party, also keep in mind, even a person just seeking to do one role, usually needs at least 2 50s, or 1 50 and 2 or 3 30+ jobs to be effecient at endgame activities.

The hardcore aspect is in the bonus things, leveling is something every one has to do, balancing it for the best case scenario is bad, they could curve the effects, but i dont think hardcores like having their progress be different for playing harder, see fatigue. Just accept that it shouldnt take the average gamer an insane time to get to cap, just because you can do it in 19 hours straight, your 19 hours is a casuals 80 hours. I have seen people shouting for parties for up to 20-40 minutes, and i doubt these were 100k exp parties, they also have quests to do, marks to get, places to go, etc.


The biggest problem i would say is that crafting currently requires way more resources, and time than any other discipline, this is a problem because a crafter probably has to make a lot more items than there is players who need them, until cap.

Too much casual/hardcore talk up in here. As if human beings are incapable of shifting play-styles.

Casual on the weekdays. Hardcore on the weekends.
Hyper-hardcore on the holidays/vacation.

Having someone higher lvl to take up their time to PL is fine. We don't need to be stuck bored out of our minds hours on end for 1 single.
1-50 in 3-4 days is fine with PL. They are still spending alot of hours in a whole day to do that, btw. It's still pretty boring too (at least with how the game is now).

Now the only downside i'm seeing is more players will now "require" you have everything leveled & there will be more "lootwhores" who want everything. It'll be fine the way it is for now. We'll all be leveling in dungeons, probably, soon enough. Then you guys can whine about that.

Crafting should stay how it is, with the exception of more recipes that can craft in bulk. It'd also be nice if we could gain the EXP in bulk too. I also don't think crafting should be too quick/easy.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

also, they need to raise the exp per level after 50 exponentialy if it stays as is(110k for 51 isnt enough by far, try 200k at the least, and the 300k and so on for a good ammount of progress)

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Exponential EXP curve? Yes, Please
Requring 2,394,000 EXP to get to 75? No, <hostile language>, way.

One of my biggest peeves in an MMO is when the EXP scales up so high that you require millions of EXP to advance, it just looks stupid imo. I personally think all the current EXPtnl numbers should be sliced in half and EXP rewarded across the board be cut in half aswell.

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Originally Posted by Tezz_Xivectro

Too much casual/hardcore talk up in here. As if human beings are incapable of shifting play-styles.

Casual on the weekdays. Hardcore on the weekends.
Hyper-hardcore on the holidays/vacation.

Having someone higher lvl to take up their time to PL is fine. We don't need to be stuck bored out of our minds hours on end for 1 single.
1-50 in 3-4 days is fine with PL. They are still spending alot of hours in a whole day to do that, btw. It's still pretty boring too (at least with how the game is now).

Now the only downside i'm seeing is more players will now "require" you have everything leveled & there will be more "lootwhores" who want everything. It'll be fine the way it is for now. We'll all be leveling in dungeons, probably, soon enough. Then you guys can whine about that.

Crafting should stay how it is, with the exception of more recipes that can craft in bulk. It'd also be nice if we could gain the EXP in bulk too. I also don't think crafting should be too quick/easy.

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crafting is kind of crazy now, the best case scenario for most exp per synth at 49 is probably hmm 450 per synth, but this is a finished item that doesnt stack, it also requires usually expensive materials, something like 2-5 items, the last level is about 100k, so thats 220 high level item crafts per person, lets say the number of crafters versus everyone else is like, 1 to 7. this means a crafter has to create 31 items per person, there isnt too many people who will use 31 items. also, a synth takes about 1.5 minutes
even with endless shards and materials, it will take crafter 330 minutes, or 5.5 hours of non stop grinding to level, compare that to the average person in a party getting 50k an hour, 2 hours, or 2.7 times as long to level, in a much much more boring aspect of the game. It also means
a crafter in general spends at least 2.7 times as long at a certain level, in terms of pure grinding at a level range
at the same time he has to produce 31 items for that same player to use in a lot less time at a certain level.

I mean i can see the advantages to crafting being a bit harder to do, so as to keep value, but the ways in which it is harder to do, means that each crafter will end up overproducing, the only reason it works now is because we still have the old recipes, and crafters can make in the middle items and trash and npc them, once those items are phased out, the market will crash, but crafters will still need to make those items just to level.

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Originally Posted by Tezz_Xivectro

Too much casual/hardcore talk up in here. As if human beings are incapable of shifting play-styles.

Casual on the weekdays. Hardcore on the weekends.
Hyper-hardcore on the holidays/vacation.

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I dont think everyone wants to spend their time off work grinding out more work on a game. I like to enjoy the time I get free, its so valuable now I hardly get any time free, and when I do get time off work I want to spend it having fun. Levelling is not fun to me, its a grind.

Should I be punished and/or not allowed to play the game because I have a leading life outside the game...?

i like it.
eventually the cap will be 99.
in the same way that you can attach 1 materia per gear part for certain, but as many as 5, or food effects and such,
a rank 50 battle class player will never be near as strong as one with the complete package.
Even with jobs, the purest complete player will need every battle class at 50,
which means eventually EVERY battle class at 99.

In continuation, how is a player without crafting and gathering levels at 50 to survive?
they must rely on other players.

However, i do think there is an issue necessarily, if rank 10-40 content is so quickly missed that players will never have time to immerse themselves in the content.

On the other hand your frame of reference, OP, is a bit flawed. You're viewing power leveling from the perspective of a veteran player. It's easy for veteran player to power level each other. You're trying to apply this frame of reference to a new player, with no friends or connections.

That's not realistic. On Besaid, I constantly see shouts for regular exp parties of varying levels and I've never seen a shout in Ul'Dah for power leveling. The new players or people that haven't ranked to 50 yet are still playing the game the old fashioned way. Powerleveling is truly for the veterans.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

On the other hand your frame of reference, OP, is a bit flawed. You're viewing power leveling from the perspective of a veteran player. It's easy for veteran player to power level each other. You're trying to apply this frame of reference to a new player, with no friends or connections.

That's not realistic. On Besaid, I constantly see shouts for regular exp parties of varying levels and I've never seen a shout in Ul'Dah for power leveling. The new players or people that haven't ranked to 50 yet are still playing the game the old fashioned way. Powerleveling is truly for the veterans.

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Or anyone who shouts for a shell and jumps immediately into said shell's PL party.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Or anyone who shouts for a shell and jumps immediately into said shell's PL party.

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That hasn't happened.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

That hasn't happened.

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That's a load of bull

I don't understand, how, exactly is fast leveling bad for anything aside from the mid-level crafters? The game's content is top-heavy anyway so it's not like there's any mid-level content aside from the Lv15 dungeon (which isn't much) to miss out on. Getting to is not the game.
Being 50 is the game.

That's when you do darkhold, ifrit, stronghold bosses, etc etc.
Maybe if the game had stuff like Garrison, Eco-Warrior and all that jazz like XI did and it began to be neglected (as it did in XI once the majority of the playerbase hit max level) there would be something of a point... but even then, once players passed that content it was ignored. It's going to happen eventually anyway unless they keep content scaling.

Hopefully SE is smart enough to place optional caps on the mid-level content anyway so that even if a player rushes to 50 they can still experience the content as it was meant to be experienced. Even if the content is added after a player has hit the endgame (leveling normally) they can experience the content the way it was meant to be experienced. There is literally no downside to fast leveling in XIV that cannot be corrected by addressing it properly and let me tell you... making the grind take longer isn't the way.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

That's a load of bull

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You aren't exaggerating?

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Or anyone who shouts for a shell and jumps immediately into said shell's PL party.

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this is not the majority of people from what ive seen. If a person wants to take the express train to 50 they can, and if they dont, they dont have to, Balancing the game around that perfect scenario, will screw up the vast majority of people who dont have that scenario. By balancing it around that ultimate party, you make sure that everyone else, will have to suffer a style of play only suited to a few players

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Originally Posted by Physic

this is not the majority of people from what ive seen. If a person wants to take the express train to 50 they can, and if they dont, they dont have to, Balancing the game around that perfect scenario, will screw up the vast majority of people who dont have that scenario. By balancing it around that ultimate party, you make sure that everyone else, will have to suffer a style of play only suited to a few players

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I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.. could you elaborate?

I think the XP rate is fine it actually encourages people to join/start parties more. Also, SE most likely wants people to level everything up rather than sticking to just 1 class.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

You aren't exaggerating?

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No, I watched it happen in two shells I was a part of. Both of which I subsequently dropped because I don't want to be a part of that mess. But physic is right, its not like its the majority, but it does happen.

Power-leveling is an option. Even if one experience point per hour was implemented, those same people would be pissed off at other people who have time to dedicate 16 hours a day of game play while they only have 2 hours because of school, work and etc. They would complain that there should playtime restrictions of 2 hours a day. Why can't people be happy doing things the way they want to in their own way, instead of being overly concerned about how someone else does things? Just because someone plays the lottery, and wins millions doesn't mean it has to be taken away from them because they chose the fast lane in life, while you prefer to be diligent and earn every penny. Play the game, the way you want to play it, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, find people that like to play it the way you do. This game is about finding your own sense of enjoyment. 2 gils.

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Originally Posted by kwestro

Power-leveling is an option. Even if one experience point per hour was implemented, those same people would be pissed off at other people who have time to dedicate 16 hours a day of game play while they only have 2 hours because of school, work and etc. They would complain that there should playtime restrictions of 2 hours a day. Why can't people be happy doing things the way they want to in their own way, instead of being overly concerned about how someone else does things? Just because someone plays the lottery, and wins millions doesn't mean it has to be taken away from them because they chose the fast lane in life, while you prefer to be diligent and earn every penny. Play the game, the way you want to play it, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, find people that like to play it the way you do. This game is about finding your own sense of enjoyment. 2 gils.

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Providing a means to get people to max level in 4 days creates a ton of problems in a game that is supposed to keep people subscribed for a year or more. The hotter a fire burns the faster it depletes its fuel. While these players who are benefiting from the situation may think this is awesome, on the whole it is not good for the game at all. In fact, I'm not even sure why I'm bothering to argue with people about it on the forums. The devs will fix it in due time, because they know they have to. I find it hard to believe this is in anyway intentional, not unless they actually want to finish off this game by tanking it into the ground. Its as simple as that.

A game isn't just leveling. In XI leveling could of taken you a year, a month, or a week, depending on when you played the game. MOst people aren't willing to spend a year leveling to max. People think "omg he leveled 1-50 week thats so lame my class means nothing", not that person leveled 1-50 in a week, didn't get guildmarks, didn't do class quests, didn't do main storyline quests, and such. Look at someone on the lodestone, i looked at a page 1-50 in 9 days, no quests done NONE!, No guildmark abilities, nothing! They had pl'd and then partied, rushed to 50 they have no money, no shards, no special abilties. and their gimp. Especially for a mage, you get 1-50 in a week with a mage, good luck on having fastcast and defense while casting or transcendence or the w/e of nature conj one. They're gimp ass 50 who cares, they'll need to spend another two weeks to a month upgimpin themselves unless they spam leves all day, which then that person is just sick and we should leave them alone to go get help.

If i didn't sort of know this person irl, i would so post there lodestone history. They got three guildmark abilities for their mage that don't matter the stats to other stats ones, because they haven't done ANY class quests, they haven't done any main storyline quests either, its hilarious.


What I'm trying to say is, because we've played the game for longer we know how it works, what you should need for your class and such. There are a lot of new players just burning with new exp system and I laugh at their 50s, they have no gear, no guildmarks nothing. And if you think guildmark abilities aren't important for your cross classing and such, that's a different story, and you're probably gimp too. there's 4 at max you need get em.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Providing a means to get people to max level in 4 days creates a ton of problems in a game that is supposed to keep people subscribed for a year or more. The hotter a fire burns the faster it depletes its fuel. While these players who are benefiting from the situation may think this is awesome, on the whole it is not good for the game at all. In fact, I'm not even sure why I'm bothering to argue with people about it on the forums. The devs will fix it in due time, because they know they have to. I find it hard to believe this is in anyway intentional, not unless they actually want to finish off this game by tanking it into the ground. Its as simple as that.

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How will they fix it in due time when Yoshi has clearly stated he wants a PL system? If Dev wants it and other people do, it will never be fixed. Wake up from your dream.

The way I see it is that Yoshi wants to make leveling a casual experience and have end game and dungeon content where the majority of the grind will be.

I think the current XP rate is fine personally, that being said they do need to keep on top of things and provide content for when people burn through it.

Similar to how WoW does.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

No, I watched it happen in two shells I was a part of. Both of which I subsequently dropped because I don't want to be a part of that mess. But physic is right, its not like its the majority, but it does happen.

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Ok, but how do you know those players weren't veterans? Just because they joined a shell doesn't mean they were new players.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Ok, but how do you know those players weren't veterans? Just because they joined a shell doesn't mean they were new players.

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Unless they lied, they were new.

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Originally Posted by viion

How will they fix it in due time when Yoshi has clearly stated he wants a PL system? If Dev wants it and other people do, it will never be fixed. Wake up from your dream.

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Please provide source where Yoshi says he wants people to get to max level in 4 days. Don't take his words out of context to suit your own argument.

You can PL craft jobs. It's called a turbo-controller.

Yoshi-P has only made a comment on the leveling rate of casuals I belive. He said that a casual player should take 3-4 months to level up. Not sure if he said anything about hardcore players.

I think SE can alleviate the problem of leveling too fast by increasing monsters HP and lengthening the fights.

I agree with the OP and many others in this thread that leveling 40-50 in less than a day (getting nearly 1 level per hour at the Ixali stronghold) is too fast. I believe it's because in my 8 man parties, we are literally pulling 5-6 mobs at a time and AOEing them all down for 500-1k exp a monster. Given that you only need 100k exp to go from 49 to 50, it only takes an hour of AOEing to ding.

If the mobs survived longer we'd probably see the exp parties go back to chaining 4 or 5 before losing the chain instead of the chain 10+ I'm seeing these days.

Possibly could switch full parties back to 6 members as well, 8 just feels kind of zergy to me.

In this thread: people who want the thing they to to escape the harsh reality of real life made harder so they can struggle in their virtual life hard too.

XIV is two...two...two games in one.

Casuals (like me) can take their time, complete every main story quest, every side quest (preferably lvl appropriate) and grind on Leves. For people like me the Grind IS the game (masochist that I am). It's more about the Adventure rather than the Destination although the destination is still important too, it's nice to take my time and alter my path as newer content gets added.

Hardcores (for the most part) seem to not care one iota for Wall-O-Text sidequests, Leves and non-voiced CutScenes. They just want to get to the (current) Endgame as soon as possible to do Raids/Dungeons/NM's/Strongholds with their friends/LS's.

I think it is a tough balancing act but they are pulling it off so far (the debate over whether this is a good strategy or not is moot because this has always been their goal). I am certain however, that they will continuously tweak the exp rates for both Casuals & Hardcores...that is a given in MMO's.

However, I think the one valid argument against fast-leveling is that is does hurt the Crafters in their the low-mid levels and the overall low-mid level economy.

But as usual I have a possible (crappy) solution...

Have gear that is 10 levels too low for your character be completely broken to the point that you cannot gain any exp until you upgrade your armor (no naked leveling either). Sure, peeps may just buy NPC gear but some will shop at the Markets. It should also add more Materia into the economy.

Also, perhaps make it where you must complete certain Class Missions/Quests in order to advance in level. I personally have no problem with Fast-Leveling but throwing in a few mandatory roadblocks wouldn't hurt either.

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Originally Posted by viion

I dont think everyone wants to spend their time off work grinding out more work on a game. I like to enjoy the time I get free, its so valuable now I hardly get any time free, and when I do get time off work I want to spend it having fun. Levelling is not fun to me, its a grind.

Should I be punished and/or not allowed to play the game because I have a leading life outside the game...?

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Totally agree. But we can't compete with 8 year old kids that depends on their mummies to play. Maybe in 15 years, they will look back and see how useless it was to spend all that time grinding instead of enjoying the game. My ultima online years of don't let me lie

Hey, a post count thread.

I benefit too!

Don't you know that it is SE intention to make exp faster so that people who come back to play can try new end-game content?

All the fun only gather at R50 now, other than that just simply plain. Our LS is glad to see many come back and we try to get them up to the stand point where they can Ifrit with us.

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Originally Posted by Noir

Totally agree. But we can't compete with 8 year old kids that depends on their mummies to play. Maybe in 15 years, they will look back and see how useless it was to spend all that time grinding instead of enjoying the game. My ultima online years of don't let me lie

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Not really sure if the game is anymore pointless then it already is? You see games are for enjoyment success and hardships in the game really don't make a game any more or less pointless. Yes goblin trains, bat trains, and many other hard ships may make a game more memorable. But a 8 year old or even a 25 year old might not care about that because it doesn't increase their enjoyment because either they lack epeen or logically look at it among many other reason. So by saying its demeaning something to uselessness when the whole game being a game is not productive and meant to be a waste of time is the same as asking a masked man his identity...a Paradox.

YEAH LET'S REPEATEDLY FIGHT MONSTERS THAT PUT UP NO FIGHT FOR EVEN LONGER PERIODS OF TIME FOR THE SAKE OF APPEASING YOUR NEED TO FEEL HARDCORE OVER ARTIFICAL (READ: NOT GENUINE) DIFFICULTY!

The forums during the existance of surplus: "XP IS TOO SLOW"
The forums after surplus was removed: "XP IS TOO FAST"

¯\(°_o)/¯

Sounds like we all need more content. Before and after 1.19 and 1.19a Leveling doesn't feel... organic? Leveling should not be quick and easy. But it should be a boring chore either. There are a few added quests for lower level jobs but nothing like the Guild quests (that end at 36). These quests were actually fun to do and were a welcome treat while leveling. I agree with the idea that fulfilling a quest to continue leveling up would be an option.

You can power level crafting classes! Just kill hard mode ifrit and accept reward on crafting class for an easy 5k exp, and it's repeatable!

srsly, why are we crying about power leveling again?

Because they think repeating an action that never presented a challenge to begin with over and over again equates with difficulty.