Does SE want to us go back to WoW? Because this is how you lose MORE players to WoW.

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Originally Posted by krazyrs

so there not even final form yet.. calm down

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even in its final form, its going to be bland

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Originally Posted by Lemuel81

even in its final form, its going to be bland

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Then by all means, don't do it. The people who do wanna do it, will do it.

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Originally Posted by Blitzace

Then by all means, don't do it. The people who do wanna do it, will do it.

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I probably won't. and quite honestly many of the people who will do it, DONT want to do it nor will they have fun doing it /shrug

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Originally Posted by Lemuel81

I probably won't. and quite honestly many of the people who will do it, DONT want to do it nor will they have fun doing it /shrug

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I don't see why. It is completely optional content. You are NOT forced do get the anima weapon for any content. And no I do not mean "Oh you don't need it for MSQ." No I mean it is completely unnecessary to be able to do any other content. The only content it is at all "necessary" for you can get as good or better weapons within the progression of. If people do not want to do the relic questline they don't need to. They might not have fun doing it but if they do not want to do it then the only thing forcing them to do it is themselves

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Originally Posted by CyrusBryant

....For example, Why would I grind for a BLM Relic that has CRIT, DET, while there is a i210 with SPELL SPEED and DET... and another with SPELL SPEED and crit.

Seriously SE, Heavensward has been an absolute train wreck. I sincerely hope 3.2 is good because at this moment I'm done. There's no reason to continue my sub right now.

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Sigh, after reading Yoshi said something means relic is for dummy, then I understand above is working as intended as he stated Relic was designed for dummies who have a lot of time and more time, also implied Relic would have more nerf otherwise the RAID(er) weapon will not good enough to make everyone enjoy Savage.^^;

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Originally Posted by Eisengrim

I would just like to point out a couple things...

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I had to log in just for this. This is exactly my sentiment regarding this new quest line. Thank you for reminding me that not everyone on the internet is a raving, hate filled imbecile. Some actually look to logic ^.^

In my opinion, you can have either player driven, time based grinding or gil based, extremely expensive crafting, or a very small mix of both, when it comes to these types of quests. For whatever reason, SE decided to take both roads and not just take them, but pave them 4 times over with glass shards and hand grenades. I have no doubt that the needed grinding is a time-gate to keep people playing and thus paying for the game, but as it stands, this is a grind that really only punishes the loyal.

I feel that given the reward, only needing 10 of each of the first tokens and 1 of each of the crafted items would make much more sense and make the grind much more appealing.

I don't understand why someone grinds for the Relic if he does'nt like to grind. I don't like grinding, so I don't grind for the Relic. And I don't like raiding in hardcore endgame contents. So yes, I will not get a ilevel 210 weapon right now, because I don't REALLY need it. One day, in some patch, I will get a ilevel 210 weapon. So, what I am doing if I don't grind nor raid after I finished the MSQ? I cancel my sub, I'm playing another game and wait for the next patch, because for me, once you did all the MSQ and the new dungeons, there is nothing fun to do, except if you like grinding and raiding hardcore contents. In fact, FF14 is the game I'm playing when there is PS4 game hole, like right now. So I will play until the release of Dark Souls 3, doing the MQS of Heavensward in relaxing mode.

I just want to point out that relic is not optional content. Now, this doesnt mean you have to do it, but by all accounts, in the current state of the game, relic is PROGRESSION content. With the vertical progression that the game has, the end goal is to get the BiS weapon, and for some jobs, that makes relic the main quest to undertake for best in slot. Sure, I don't have to do relic, I also dont have to do MSQ, I dont have to do alex savage, I dont have to grind for tombstones, I dont have to play the game at all, so at what point am I allowed to complain about anything in the game?

True optional content are the pieces of content that are fun but dont contribute to progression (see hildibrand, gold saucer, and postmoogle), and I'm allowed to complain about those too.

yes im going to return to a game that blatantly sold an over hyped filler xpac to pad its wallet just because they are doing their own version of a relic weapon with the vanilla talent tree tacked on. >.>

I'd just as much see everyone calm down, SE gave us another option to continue progressing, and if you don't like it, go take on Alexander savage, all 4 floors, then complain how anima weps feel unfair to grind

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I just want to point out that relic is not optional content... ...True optional content are the pieces of content that are fun but dont contribute to progression (see hildibrand, gold saucer, and postmoogle), and I'm allowed to complain about those too.

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It is not your only course to get said weapon though, so it is entirely optional. By the logic you gave, Alex Savage is also NOT optional. Because you will never be able to achieve best in slot without a blend of both Eso gear, and Gordian. So all you casuals whining about the relic, go do Alex S instead. It's not optional content. You heard it here first!

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Originally Posted by Zophar

It is not your only course to get said weapon though, so it is entirely optional. By the logic you gave, Alex Savage is also NOT optional. Because you will never be able to achieve best in slot without a blend of both Eso gear, and Gordian. So all you casuals whining about the relic, go do Alex S instead. It's not optional content. You heard it here first!

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I... I'm lost for words, its like you completely manipulated what I said, you even cut out the entire explanation to suit your own agenda. Clutching at straws are we?

I'll explain again, because apparently you can't read. Relic contributes greatly to character progression, which is the end game for battle classes, and you completely miss the point of the quest by calling it optional. It's like calling master books optional for crafters, they don't have to do them or get them in the slightest, but its how they progress and obtain the best recipes.

If it were truly optional, you would not see many people ask and figure out which path is best suited to the progression of their job. For jobs like DRK and WAR, relic is far better suited to their PROGRESSION than alex savage and eso, so if they want the best weapon for their class, thats the way to go. Other classes like MCH and NIN(?) are better suited to other pieces of content to aid their progression. It is optional in the sense that there are alternatives and you do not NEED it (to put that into perspective you do not NEED anything in this game because content is so easily accessable these days), but it is not optional in that the game makes it part of your primary progression, and high end players are obligated to get the weapon as it is endgame.

We are getting slightly off topic anyway, my final point is that you are saying that people can't complain because its optional, and to do something else, but when the relic weapon is the best weapon for your class, and your eso weapon is garbage in comparison, but another classes eso weapon is much better than their relic, I dont think that saying "go do other content" is grounds to not be allowed to complain.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I... I'm lost for words, its like you completely manipulated what I said, you even cut out the entire explanation to suit your own agenda. Clutching at straws are we?

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I didn't manipulate anything. I just used your logic and took it a step further. Either way, even the mere act of aiming for BiS is completely optional. I absolutely grant you that some of the relics have better thats than the 210 eso, or gordian, but is it really enough to make it absolutely essential? Has having less desirable secondary stats on a single piece ever made a game breaking difference? No. Will the better secondary stats win? Yes. By a huge margain? No. You can choose to go for the Eso, or Gordian, or Anima. And while some choices will be more desirable than others, the grand difference is minimal. So, yes, if you're a person who is obsessed with every single piece of gear you own to be BiS, then yeah, I guess it's not mandatory, and even then, only for certain select jobs.

But the same can be said for all things in the game. Some people really love lore and backstory. So MSQ and sidequests, are NOT optional. Some people need a serious challenge that only endgame can provide, therefor, endgame is NOT optional. Some people love crafting, gathering, pvp, etc, etc. Get what I'm saying? Everything is a choice. You're not being forced to do it. You're choosing to do it. That, right there, is the definition of optional.

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Originally Posted by Polumetis

I'd just as much see everyone calm down, SE gave us another option to continue progressing, and if you don't like it, go take on Alexander savage, all 4 floors, then complain how anima weps feel unfair to grind

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We're not saying the grind is unfair. We're saying the grind, for the reward given, is not worth the effort. And as difficult as AS4S is, you can not deny that part 3 of the relic quest is one hell of a serious grind.

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Originally Posted by Odysseus84

We're not saying the grind is unfair. We're saying the grind, for the reward given, is not worth the effort. And as difficult as AS4S is, you can not deny that part 3 of the relic quest is one hell of a serious grind.

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Personally I'm not even complaining about the grind, the grind is fair, its the crafting portion that is overkill. I can manage the grind, as it is slow but quantifiable progress, but the crafted items are a huge gate, and the specialisation means that it is impossible to get on your own. The solutions are find other players willing to craft these items for you (all 32), or have 15+ million gil (not even taking into account the other mats you need to get), and for some players this is not viable, let alone fair, and the reward is definitely not equatable.

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Originally Posted by Zophar

Either way, even the mere act of aiming for BiS is completely optional.

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This is where you lose all credibility. For many, being mediocre is not an option. For any player that plays this game beyond crafting and has any intention of being taken seriously in a raid, the Relic quest is not optional. For every 1 person that the Relic is optional to, there are 5 that it i mandatory for. You cannot devalue their desire for a balanced quest (Effort+Time=Appropriate Reward) because of your war against "entitlement". As it stands, the reward given does not equal the sum of effort and time required to obtain it. Whether or not it's "optional" in your view does not change this.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Personally I'm not even complaining about the grind, the grind is fair, its the crafting portion that is overkill.

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See, I'm on your side on that one. I mean, I could accept the crafting part, if it was -possible- to have all specialist classes. At that point, it would be something you -could- do on your own if you chose it. Sadly, without mules, you can only have a max of 3 specialists, meaning that you have no choice but to be at the mercy of others. That I feel is pushing it. The actual grind itself though, as you said, is not bad. I've worked on getting my 5 most played jobs their 200 weapons since implementation. I have not even begun my alex grind yet, and just from beast quests, poetics, and law, with no special effort (outside of doing beast quests), I'm already sitting at 26/80. I could probably be done by now if I'd just focused a single weapon from the get go. As is, I started seeing completed Anima weapons as early as 4 days after the patch. Not that the majority of people can finish that fast, but it just shows it is -possible- to finish in under a week. That crafting though....

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Originally Posted by Odysseus84

faulty logic

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Ok, first off, why, in the world, would having a relic make people take you more seriously in raid content? Why? Anyone can make one. Even the baddest of the bads. How does making a relic, make you be taken more seriously than, say, getting a Thordan weapon? Furthermore, the time required to get a 210 relic is MORE than fair. Start a relic from scratch, or start Alex savage from scratch, and see which one you finish first. If you wanna complain about the crafting part, fine. I'm on board with that. But the "time?" Explain to me how a relic should be easier to get than a Gordian or 210 Eso. Please.

Its optional, Relic always has been a grind. I'm almost done with it and i haven't even remotely focussed on it to much. Apart from running alex floor 1 and doing dungeons with friends and the hunts ofcourse.

Beast tribese i've done every day all 12 quests. Honestly, I've seen worse. and i can't wait to see what they bring as a next step.
I'll admit they need to spice it up, but if its BiS for your class, put some work in for it. But to whine about it and ask nerfs here and there already, no thanks.
Once again, i would like to see something else than light farm or item farm. Get some diversity in there.

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Originally Posted by Blitzace

Relic always has been a grind. I'm almost done with it and i haven't even remotely focussed on it to much.

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Whats your secret to getting the crafting items easily? I need to know!

Ditto what everyone else said.

It's optional, meaning specifically that you could finish all the MSQ, level 60 and expert without it. The casual raid doesn't require it. SAVAGE doesn't even require it because obviously people cleared without it. If "being mediocre" = only having your gear 99% optimized, I don't know if I can help you. Either it's worth it to you or it isn't, don't expect it to be handed to you.

I DO agree that the weapons are a little lack-luster for the amount of grind and SPECIFICALLY the crafting element. For someone like me who has only recently subbed and even more recently gotten to 60 with NO crafters and less than 1mil gil, I would be playing for months alone for that crafting element. Either by grinding the gil OR leveling the crafters (and even then I'd have to have gil it seems). Regardless, you won't hear me complaining about it because if it's not worth it I will get the i200 and just wait for the rest of it. Eventually I'll git gud and it's be nerfed and we'll meet halfway and OMG that wasn't so hard now was it?

It's only when you slam your face against it because NOW that it's a giant PITA

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Originally Posted by KaitlanKela

Regardless, you won't hear me complaining about it because if it's not worth it I will get the i200 and just wait for the rest of it. Eventually I'll git gud and it's be nerfed and we'll meet halfway and OMG that wasn't so hard now was it?

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My main issue with this is that this is what happened to me with the 2.x relic. I really liked the 2.x relic quest all except for atma, and the problem was that because this was the first step, I was horribly behind by the time that I actually was able to complete the quest (I was in the camp of very poor RNG end), and I got to the nexus stage just as HW launched, again I was shafted because this stage would have been perfect pre HW, but with HW I struggled to gather light because nobody was doing the content, up until 3.1. And while I did get my zeta before anima, the entire situation with the first stage of the relic affected my entire journey. I can see this happening again with the crafted items, and its hugely demotivating.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

And while I did get my zeta before anima, the entire situation with the first stage of the relic affected my entire journey. I can see this happening again with the crafted items, and its hugely demotivating.

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The crafting does suck. I get they're trying to encourage more crafting but the amount of crafting necessary to contribute to this is overwhelming for someone who hasn't had the opportunity to level crafters yet, like me. And even then it's not like you can do it all yourself. That's impossible. I won't defend the crafting.

However I don't see it messing up the rythym of future quests. Mainly because the market will regulate soon, the prices will drop and that will constitute the nerf. I'm sure people with level 50 crafters that just haven't bothered since june will see this and be like...hey hey, increase supply, price drops. Price of future crafts drop as well, because more crafters. They may even nerf after that by making the items drop from something. We'll see if it works out that way. Anyway, we shouldn't be more than one step behind the entire process and frankly that's the effort-efficient place to be. >.<

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I was shafted because this stage would have been perfect pre HW, but with HW I struggled to gather light because nobody was doing the content, up until 3.1.

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Actually, I found gathering light was even easier post 3.0. They nerfed light gathering requirements so much that it was actually really easy to do by unsync soloing Tam tara, and Sastasha low level. The Mahatma light farming phase took me just slightly over 2 hours to finish. I can't blame you for not knowing that trick in time. I never would have thought of it had I not been listening in on a conversation within my FC.

Honestly i don't see the problem with relic, Finished mine yesterday, could've finished a week ago if i didn't play so much RB6 lately lol.
Did my daily's everyday, All beast tribes and farmed some alex. Didn't even focus on it much due to being on RB6 so much.

Only thing i find a little bit meh is the crafting part, As i see people struggle for a few hundred k. On my server you'll be paying around 900k-1.5kk for one set of items.
But like i said before, i honestly hope they bring something more fun to the table than the standard farm X amount of items or light or what ever.

I actually enjoyed re-running the old dungeons, I think it would've been more fun if they would made those dungeon (for relic) synced + IL synced to the bare minimum.

If you love WOW soo much then play it. Don't whine over the differences in a game a make them all out to be bad ones. Its different from the way WOW does it, but they are different MMOs. Also as many people have said, ITS OPTIONAL! If you're serious about high level game play then get gear through high level. Many people do Anima JUST FOR GLAMOUR, because as we all know the anima weapons are shiny shiny shiny.