starting to lose interest in this game sadly

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Originally Posted by Awful

I thought this was going to be a thread about gameplay not the cash shop which doesn't affect your gameplay whatsoever.

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I too thought this was going to be a game thread and not a cash shop hate thread. OP should use more descriptive titles.

Played from 2.0 launch, and yeah... it has started to get really freaking boring out here.

I am bored as hell as well. Games as shallow as F2P but charges us anyway. My reasons aren't really because of the cash shop but it does leave a terrible taste in my mouth, and doesn't help make the game feel even more shallow. Unsubbed a few weeks ago, but still have 32 days on my account so I post on the forums until it's up. Heck, reading the forums/posting is more fun than FFXIV right now.

At least I got FFXI to play and my own little 1.0 side project to pass the time. Maybe I'll rejoin when 3.2 comes /shrug.

Must not like the game much if you'll let the few items the cash shop has to offer bother you that much. Personally I wish we had better options from a glamour perspective. There is really nothing much there that is really special in my view.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Sort of, he listed a handful of other people that need wages too and brought up some other expenses. It doesn't mean they aren't making loads off of our subs already, and that they don't really need the cash shop purchases. They are a cash grab, because yes they are in the business of making money.

They company, in business of making money, will charge as much as they can to make money. The consumers, in the business of saving money, will try to limit how much they can charge us. Consumers do this through consumer feedback (like this thread) and consumer demand. Rolling over and saying they want to make money, so here take it, is very poor consumer behavior and not at all how a capitalist economy works.

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At the end of the day it's still a business. If the game isn't making a sizable profit then funding will end. The goal of a business is to make profit, and customer satisfaction is just one means to meet that end goal. However, for whatever reason it's often supposed that it's the other way around by the customer base. If the game doesn't make profit then it will be shut down in favor of another model.

The problem isn't that threads like this exist, but that the numbers don't agree with a thread like this. Any large corporation is not gonna roll out a huge amount of man hours because of a survey. The one and only reason they would do that is a reaction to a downward trend. This game has not hit that point in it's life. It's too early and its still easy to grab players that are new to the game with easy promotions. For every long term subscriber there are many more new players, maybe they only sub for a few months but the collective mass of people playing 1-6 months more than likely earns SE a greater profit then the one guy who plays for 1-2 years.

When WoW went heavy cash shop a few years ago it was a reaction to the trend and a bid to get more new players. Why you ask? It's to get a fast and new player base. The man hours and money you would have to spend to make a long time player happy is significantly more than the amount you would need to pay to get a new player to be happy with a game.

It's a numbers game at the end of the day.

Wow, someone is losing interest in this game because of cash shop items? Not because of lack of content, okay. I guess I just don't get it.

But it is very fascinating that we have so many different types of gamers that play. And poor SE will never be able to make everyone happy.

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Originally Posted by karateorangutang

At the end of the day it's still a business. If the game isn't making a sizable profit then funding will end. The goal of a business is to make profit, and customer satisfaction is just one means to meet that end goal. However, for whatever reason it's often supposed that it's the other way around by the customer base. If the game doesn't make profit then it will be shut down in favor of another model.

The problem isn't that threads like this exist, but that the numbers don't agree with a thread like this. Any large corporation is not gonna roll out a huge amount of man hours because of a survey. The one and only reason they would do that is a reaction to a downward trend. This game has not hit that point in it's life. It's too early and its still easy to grab players that are new to the game with easy promotions. For every long term subscriber there are many more new players, maybe they only sub for a few months but the collective mass of people playing 1-6 months more than likely earns SE a greater profit then the one guy who plays for 1-2 years.

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I agree with all of that, and it's not contradictory to what I said. The point is that prices are fixated on a balancing point between two conflicting interests (consumers demand to lower prices and company's demand to raise prices). It is a consumer role in this scenario to voice up if you find the prices too high, and to make actions with your money.

We already pay a sub fee, which I am sure easily gives them their profits. The added costs through the cash shop are considered by some to be poor business practice. We have two methods to show this, either don't buy stuff, or voice our opinion. I personally do the former, OP did the latter.

Rolling over and telling him to shut up, because the company needs profits only helps the company. It's counter-active to your own interests as a consumer.

A comparison would be, say the PS4 launched at $2000, and someone said F' that too expensive. Another person came up and said, hey Sony needs profits Okay?. Then person A is like 'ah you're right, here sony take my money.' - does this at all sound like a logical and reasonable course of events? No, it's absurd.

In a capitalist economy, we focus on our own well-being and self interests. That is the basis for which we live and how our entire economy works.

Cash shop items are worthless anyway. Why do you want it and why do you care so much about rich kids having them?

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Snips

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****ing hell I love you.

I mean. Yes. Very good points. Very interesting. *Sage nod*

I also really wanna stress that... I really don't like this toxic attitude towards other players who voice their opinion, regardless of their stance. I do not think that SE, as a corporation, is some innocent victim that needs to be defended by the players. I do think it's awesome that they have loyalty from a lot of their fans - that's great for them. But you also wanna make sure that you're not denying others their right to be dissatisfied with the product.

In other words... don't tell people off for disliking something. It's alright to disagree and have a discussion with them - but outright telling someone to STFU and take it is just... A loss for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

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That's all true, except for one thing.

People are buying the cash shop items. If they weren't then the company wouldn't pay the upkeep fees to keep the code or the system running. Just look around in game, I'll bet money you see at least 5-6 paid mounts. That right there is over 90 dollars that the company wouldn't have received otherwise.

I have no problem with people voicing the opinion with a good argument behind it. I also think that people need to be realistic in how they are presenting it. I have yet to see one single businessman or woman that would turn down the opportunity for more profit.

Now, if we could get a 2000 char limit I would be the happiest forum goer in the world.

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Originally Posted by karateorangutang

That's all true, except for one thing.

People are buying the cash shop items. If they weren't then the company wouldn't pay the upkeep fees to keep the code or the system running. Just look around in game, I'll bet money you see at least 5-6 paid mounts. That right there is over 90 dollars that the company wouldn't have received otherwise.

I have no problem with people voicing the opinion with a good argument behind it. I also think that people need to be realistic in how they are presenting it. I have yet to see one single businessman or woman that would turn down the opportunity for more profit.

Now, if we could get a 200 char limit I would be the happiest forum goer in the world.

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Haha yes, the limit is VERY annoying. You can just copy your post, submit under 1k and then edit/save.

I agree, people are purchasing it. SE is getting feedback that people do like their items. Not purchasing it is some feedback, but is not as strong as the purchases. Naturally, the best way to show your disappointment then is to provide feedback like this thread. Not everyone will be upset, just as not everyone would have been upset with a $2000 PS4.

To bring it back to another of my posts in this thread. I really want the boots from the wedding package. However, I've held off on buying that package since the marriages have launched (despite also really wanting the dress at the time). Other people threw money at it no problem, as I see them running around all the time. I imagine the other people purchasing it has had a greater impact on SE's decision than my lack of purchase :(.

Let me guess - the people complaining about a few vanity items in the cash shop are the same people that would spend money to purchase movie tickets and assume they're entitled to a free large beverage and snacks, just because they paid to see the movie.

Little extras or not, its pretty dam shady you gotta pay more money on top of the money you paid them to make it in the first place to get the little extras. And more and more of the little extras are going into the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Let me guess - the people complaining about a few vanity items in the cash shop are the same people that would spend money to purchase movie tickets and assume they're entitled to a free large beverage and snacks, just because they paid to see the movie.

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I think it's more similar to paying for a Netflix subscription and assuming that you can watch all of the movies on there included, and not have to pay additionally for a handful of them.

As for your analogy, a lot of people do complain about the outrageous costs of movie theater popcorn and drinks. At least in my country. Not many complain that it should be included though.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I think it's more similar to paying for a Netflix subscription and assuming that you can watch all of the movies on there included, and not have to pay additionally for a handful of them.

As for your analogy, a lot of people do complain about the outrageous costs of movie theater popcorn and drinks. At least in my country. Not many complain that it should be included though.

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I believe what people are complain about is that they feel that its more like an Amazon Prime Video subscription where not all of the videos are included in the subscription and you have to pay for some videos outside of your subscription like new releases

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Originally Posted by Ageofwar

I believe what people are complain about is that they feel that its more like an Amazon Prime Video subscription where not all of the videos are included in the subscription and you have to pay for some videos outside of your subscription like new releases

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Maybe, we don't have that in Canada, so I have no idea how to compare to that. Personally, I see it as the Netflix one. If I pay a subscription, I should get everything included. Another example is PlayStation Now, you can pay per game if you want, or if you pay the sub you get all of the games included.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Maybe, we don't have that in Canada, so I have no idea how to compare to that. Personally, I see it as the Netflix one. If I pay a subscription, I should get everything included. Another example is PlayStation Now, you can pay per game if you want, or if you pay the sub you get all of the games included.

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Even with Netflix, there are issues. Have a streaming plan and your movie isn't on there? Gotta pay for a DVD plan and have it sent. And then the streaming stuff is constantly shifted around, so something you once enjoyed is no longer available.

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Originally Posted by Andevom

Even with Netflix, there are issues. Have a streaming plan and your movie isn't on there? Gotta pay for a DVD plan and have it sent. And then the streaming stuff is constantly shifted around, so something you once enjoyed is no longer available.

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Not everything is on FFXIV either. For example, there is no first person shooter mode, so if I want to play that then I have to buy another game.

Further to this, a lot of that has to do with licensing issues. FFXIV does not have to concern themselves with licensing issues. The reason why a glamour item costs extra is not because they had to pay some other company licensing rights to put it in their game.

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Originally Posted by reillyblair

i dont know what it is but really starting to lose interest in the game and all this cash shop stuff is pushing me further away i get that they wanted to make more money but i would rather pay a higher amount for a sub fairly with everyone else rather then all the rich kids getting the best stuff i know its cosmetic stuff but still

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You can pay 15 dollars a month but not shell out 10 bucks for a mount you don't even need? ....huh. At least give a better reason for leaving like slow received or short lived content or something.

In a sense I get the struggle from the OP: the cash shop RIGHT NOW it's harmless and doesn't really give you any advantage for now.

But when it will (IF it will) start to push less optional items on it, then all of his fears will come to reality. I don't think it will be a reality right now, but considering how they want to push the cash shop and their useless (yet hot selling) items, it can be a good guess that they might push this method on other things such as the housing, possible boosts and even possible gil selling

And on a personal note: the game kinda does lack on content (and this is an expansion, and almost 7 months in) and the fact that we need to buy retainers via an additional fee to our sub (where it's usually upgradeable with money) is quite frustrating and silly: my friend literally laughed hard when he heard about this and was so happy to not join the game.

Can you blame him if he doesn't like the game at this point?

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Originally Posted by reillyblair

i dont know what it is but really starting to lose interest in the game and all this cash shop stuff is pushing me further away i get that they wanted to make more money but i would rather pay a higher amount for a sub fairly with everyone else rather then all the rich kids getting the best stuff i know its cosmetic stuff but still

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Really? Good bye. Can I have your stuff?

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

In a sense I get the struggle from the OP

Can you blame him if he doesn't like the game at this point?

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Yes we can, everything you stated, MIGHT, happen and has NOT happened. Your trying to see in the future but, it's not working. BTW the next content is coming before the end of the month.

As far as retainers, I pay for 1 additional retainer making my sub from 12.99$ to 14.99$ like every other sub mmo.

So yeah, sounds like a lot of crying to me.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Not everything is on FFXIV either. For example, there is no first person shooter mode, so if I want to play that then I have to buy another game.

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There's no promise of a first person shooter mode in an MMORPG...that's well beyond anyone's expectations. A Netflix subscription deals solely with TV/Film, so it's a lot less crazy for someone to expect to watch the same thing they watched a month prior.

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Further to this, a lot of that has to do with licensing issues. FFXIV does not have to concern themselves with licensing issues. The reason why a glamour item costs extra is not because they had to pay some other company licensing rights to put it in their game.

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Right, which is why FFXIV doesn't have to remove items from the game every month. The only ones they take out are the purely cosmetic seasonal ones (which makes sense), and they provide you with a way to get them after the season's over.

I guess what I should say is that Netflix really isn't the best service to compare to this.

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Originally Posted by reillyblair

i dont know what it is but really starting to lose interest in the game and all this cash shop stuff is pushing me further away i get that they wanted to make more money but i would rather pay a higher amount for a sub fairly with everyone else rather then all the rich kids getting the best stuff i know its cosmetic stuff but still

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https://media.giphy.com/media/l0O9xk...OkaQ/giphy.gif

I'm sort of losing interest as well but the cash shop is the least of my concerns. You do realize the cash shop only sells cosmetic stuff right? How would that even matter to you?

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Originally Posted by reillyblair

i dont know what it is but really starting to lose interest in the game and all this cash shop stuff is pushing me further away i get that they wanted to make more money but i would rather pay a higher amount for a sub fairly with everyone else rather then all the rich kids getting the best stuff i know its cosmetic stuff but still

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... ... ...

What?

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but i would rather pay a higher amount for a sub fairly with everyone else

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rich kids

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Of all the things that would make you lose interest, the cosmetic cash shop is what pushes you over the edge?

I invite SE to wring every last penny out of these glamor hounds. Every time I see the new Magitek mount, I run a lap down my city block crying out "You won't believe what this clown spent his money on!" I'm the Paul Revere of bad purchasing decisions.

Needless to say, the neighbors have had enough of me and my cardio is excellent.

I'm sure many people will agree that this game takes quite a few ideas from WoW, cash shop included and I wont defend it being there. But at least this game does not really waste development time on making stuff specifically for the cash shop like WoW does.

This does seem to be a good thread to ask a question I've had sense the start of the expansion. What was their reason for not giving us a free retainer when they said they couldn't expand our inventory due to server restrictions?

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Originally Posted by Andevom

There's no promise of a first person shooter mode in an MMORPG...that's well beyond anyone's expectations. A Netflix subscription deals solely with TV/Film, so it's a lot less crazy for someone to expect to watch the same thing they watched a month prior.



Right, which is why FFXIV doesn't have to remove items from the game every month. The only ones they take out are the purely cosmetic seasonal ones (which makes sense), and they provide you with a way to get them after the season's over.

I guess what I should say is that Netflix really isn't the best service to compare to this.

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I wasn't comparing the service as much as comparing the payment models.

As for your other items, i have arguments, but i feel we're just beating a dead horse.

The more money that people put into the cash shop means better quality for future content. More money made on their end will mean better stuff for us- if you can't understand that then maybe MMOs aren't for you? I really wouldn't care if some of the best looking armor in the game was in the cash shop- let people spend money on the things they want, no sweat off my back seeing someone run around in something i know they spent IRL money on.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

^ This, look at what they are offering versus the rest of the industry. I am starting to get offended when people act like S-E is the big bad evil company screwing them out of their money. They must be working so damn hard to produce the amount of content they do, way above industry average. They deserve every penny and I am always happy when they do well financially because I love the things they create, it's a huge part of my life, and any success they have means they can keep producing more of this stuff.

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While I support this game and thoroughly enjoy it, SE is basically the japanese EA. If you pay any attention to the industry other than just playing final fantasy games, they're not known for wholly ethical business practices. Augmented pre-order anyone? SE is a lot bigger than just FF or FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by KitingGenbu

I'm sure many people will agree that this game takes quite a few ideas from WoW, cash shop included and I wont defend it being there. But at least this game does not really waste development time on making stuff specifically for the cash shop like WoW does.

This does seem to be a good thread to ask a question I've had sense the start of the expansion. What was their reason for not giving us a free retainer when they said they couldn't expand our inventory due to server restrictions?

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Because they gave you two retainers for free and extras are like 3$/month; like 1 coffee each xD

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Originally Posted by SnugglesD

While I support this game and thoroughly enjoy it, SE is basically the japanese EA. If you pay any attention to the industry other than just playing final fantasy games, they're not known for wholly ethical business practices. Augmented pre-order anyone? SE is a lot bigger than just FF or FFXIV.

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Agreed, also FF7 remake is gonna be in epiodes, well thats something.

Also adding, the cash shop will only be game breaking if they start adding items that give stats or special weapons. Then I could see people leaving. Not me though as it will just differentiate the BIS babies, the casuals and the work hards.

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Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

The more money that people put into the cash shop means better quality for future content. More money made on their end will mean better stuff for us- if you can't understand that then maybe MMOs aren't for you? I really wouldn't care if some of the best looking armor in the game was in the cash shop- let people spend money on the things they want, no sweat off my back seeing someone run around in something i know they spent IRL money on.

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While I agree with the second half of your statement (re: not feeling inferior for lack of shelling out actual money over cosmetic virtual goods), you're a bit naive to assume that all of the cash shop money is being re-directed into making FFXIV a more "quality" experience for us. I'm sure WoW turns a huge profit and many of their players, both former and current, would probably have things to say about that game's "quality".

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Originally Posted by reillyblair

i dont know what it is but really starting to lose interest in the game and all this cash shop stuff is pushing me further away i get that they wanted to make more money but i would rather pay a higher amount for a sub fairly with everyone else rather then all the rich kids getting the best stuff i know its cosmetic stuff but still

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After I beat the HW main story, I took a break and played some other games. There is nothing wrong with losing interest in a game, and from time to time, it's better to take a break, enjoy something else, and come back when you are interested. We are more then happy to welcome back new players. The danger is losing interested, and forcing yourself to play, that's when burnout happens, and it becomes a pain to login. That's no fun.

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Originally Posted by reillyblair

i dont know what it is but really starting to lose interest in the game and all this cash shop stuff is pushing me further away i get that they wanted to make more money but i would rather pay a higher amount for a sub fairly with everyone else rather then all the rich kids getting the best stuff i know its cosmetic stuff but still

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you are just jealous.. why would the cosmetic crap matter if you have ilvl 210 armors from A4S?
if you are ok with higher sub fee (which is perm.) why aren't you ok with cash shop FOR COSMETIC ITEMS ONLY.

just quit the game for now and come back later if you feel like it.. save yourself some sub money... then maybe you can spend them on cash shop cosmetic items when you resub.

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Now, if we could get a 200 char limit I would be the happiest forum goer in the world.

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Don't worry, they'll put that privilege on the cash shop soon.

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Originally Posted by Furiea

why would the cosmetic crap matter if you have ilvl 210 armors from A4S?

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Because glamour is the true endgame? The only thing that lasts, the things you get PSTs about, it's all glamour. The one and only true form of endgame.


I'm partially joking, but for me it's glamour > stats . If an item looks good, I will farm my butt off to get it, I'll participate in 3,000 practice parties if need be, but if it's look bad? I'll pass on the content if it takes an unwanted amount of frustration to complete.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Because glamour is the true endgame? The only thing that lasts, the things you get PSTs about, it's all glamour. The one and only true form of endgame.


I'm partially joking, but for me it's glamour > stats . If an item looks good, I will farm my butt off to get it, I'll participate in 3,000 practice parties if need be, but if it's look bad? I'll pass on the content if it takes an unwanted amount of frustration to complete.

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That's what happaned to me when I saw final coil armor.. all motivation disappeared at that instant.

I think the main issue people have with the cash shop is the game is feeling more and more like a F2P game like GW2/Wildstar/etc. that have extensive cosmetic cash shops...the big difference is that FF14 charges a mandatory monthly fee on top of that. I honestly don't care for anything in the cash shop that I can't get in game (namely, the dyes) but the day "item X" appears that I really want to be able to earn in game for my time/sub fee I might get upset as well - in other words, I understand why people are slowly getting more and more angry over the cash shop expansion. Honestly, it is bad enough a subscription game has the audacity to charge for in game storage...it is pretty ridiculous. They even heavily restrict alts to make it a pain in the @#$@ to use them as storage just to rub salt in the wound.