The Bottom Feeders: Moves You Never Use and Why (Ver. 2)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taika

I don't think anyone was claiming it adds to damage of spells abilities, only that you get extra Aetherflow stacks = extra Energy Drains. :)

It would be great if it would add to MND instead of healing magic potency so that it would affect damage in Cleric Stance, though.

---

I remember the Devs saying that dissipation had last minute nerfs before the release of Heavensward due to it being far too powerful. I kind of suspect that in its original intended form it effected damage dealt as well by the SCH. If that was the case it would have been awesome :).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nekotee

cure 3 stuff

---

Cure 3 in thordan is kind of meh to me and if you're co-healing (let's say later phases like phase 9) your cure 3 isn't hitting the tank, he needs heals too. What makes cure 3 inefficient even with the cure 3 proc is that if it doesn't hit everyone you have to waste mp healing that guy you misssed with a follow up cure. After a Dragon's Rage you just medica 2 and by the time the boss even thinks about hitting your dps they're full from the regen. Best part is that Medica 2 is not likely to miss anyone

Cure 3 has it's uses and it's very powerful I know that but I almost never find a situation where it's better to use it instead of my entire hotbar other better more efficient spells

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael

I remember the Devs saying that dissipation had last minute nerfs before the release of Heavensward due to it being far too powerful. I kind of suspect that in its original intended form it effected damage dealt as well by the SCH. If that was the case it would have been awesome :).

---

I can't remember exactly where I read it, but I'm pretty sure they said they tested Dissipation at a 50% healing boost before. Or something like that, so it was basically just nerfed potency wise.

And yes, as a SCH main I think I use Dissipation the least. It has saved two runs for me though, but that's only 2 in this entire time the expansion has been out. ;p

For Astrologian, my biggest gripes are with Malefic and Stella. I'm not sure why they took a spell that's already situational at best (Stone, after learning Stone II) and split it into two spells with equal or worse situational value. I understand that SE seems to have an obsession with giving all ranged classes a way to apply the Heavy effect at a low level so I'll give them that, but when you realize that Malefic could have been the spell with Heavy, suddenly Stella is free to be made into something entirely different.

Personally I would like to see Stella made into a spell or ability used for the purpose of applying an AoE DoT, thus making Astrologian no longer the only job in the game incapable of dealing AoE damage by level 50. There are a few ways this could be done.

• Deals damage with a potency of 30 to target and all enemies near it. 20 potency/30 second DoT (230 total potency)
• Spreads a target's Combust and Combust II to nearby enemies at 40% potency (231 total potency after subtracting 45 from time spent on DoT application assuming Com II > Com > Stella)

Between the two I prefer the latter. It takes more thought to use and scales with level in an interesting way. If either of these seem "too strong" for what an Astrologian should be capable of doing, there's also the possibility of changing Stella into an ability and slapping a 60 second timer on it to prevent continuous application. I don't know if SE cares about feedback of this type, but I just see so much potential in what Stella could have been had they just put Heavy on Malefic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blueyes

stuff

---

Don't take my Heavy on Stella away, how am I supposed to troll people in PvP now!? The laser of doom is so much more.. doomy!

On a more serious note: yeah Stella feels like an afterthought.

The problem i have with energy drain is that it is accuracy reliant and with no acc gear for healers it can miss and waste a stack i could save for emergency heals. i will use energy drain if my aetherflow timer is up and i can just burn my remaining stacks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AzureFlare

Don't take my Heavy on Stella away, how am I supposed to troll people in PvP now!? The laser of doom is so much more.. doomy!

On a more serious note: yeah Stella feels like an afterthought.

---

I also only use Stella in PVP, to either slow down one of the melees trying (failing) to kill me as I run away from them, or as a sort of "heavy inducing homing beacon" to my team to help them pick off a straggler, since it does have that delightful laser-like quallity. Other than that I don't even use it in appropriate low level content, which is sad.

I also don't find myself using Malefic I much, even though it is more "efficient". But I think someone else already commented on the obsoleting nature of healer DPS abilities.

Most of the Healer spells I never use are usually the ones that are just too situational I guess:


-WHM-

- Presence of Mind - I know it's quite the strong cooldown but I'm not sure if it's the huge cooldown that I just like to use Divine Seal more often than this. For me, this skill is a last resort, even after Benediction. Which is strange cause I use lightspeed quite often (it's probably the reduced MP cost).

- Curaga - Very situational but quite powerful when you know the incoming damage is higher than your regular medica can top off or if you quickly need to top off the party cause you know another big hit will strike right after. Although this spell is further pushed away due to Assize. It doesn't help that the MP cost is extremely high.

- Repose - As many others mentioned, could have had more uses if it'd be aoe but most monsters either get immediately woken up again by some ground aoe or they overwhelm you before you can cast it. Good for soloing if you get overwhelmed.


- SCH -
I do use most of its attacks frequently but..

- Dissipation - While it can potentially save the raid, it feels like it's so out of sync with all the other spells you have. It just could have been a lot better and more fitting to the Scholar job.

- Fey Illumination - Absurdly strong so I never really have the need for it most of the time. (Cause Eos is already pretty overkill for most content). Was a godsend spell during the days of solo healing Titan ex though.

- Silent Dawn - Ironically, most useful at 24-man raids where just noone bothers to silence that one raid wide aoe >_>.


- AST -

- Stella - Good to heavy enemies with it but I always forget that I actually have that spell...

- Nocturnal Sect - *sigh* it's just it seems so out of flow with the rest of the toolkit, considering you can extend your regens with your abilities. I feel like it'd need a passive to have decreased MP costs by x% or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shikiseki

snip

---

PoM has seen a lot of use out of me because of Holy spam. And Stone II spam on easy bosses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shikiseki

- Presence of Mind - I know it's quite the strong cooldown but I'm not sure if it's the huge cooldown that I just like to use Divine Seal more often than this. For me, this skill is a last resort, even after Benediction.

---

PoM is not an emergency button. Much less than Benediction is. At least in endgame content. All my usage of PoM - as well as most other CDs - in Savage is pre-planned for specific mechanics or specific points in the fight. For instance, in A1S, I will always use PoM during the first and third Prey/Plasma (with the second getting Hallowed by my tank).

And outside of endgame content, it's a free DPS increase which I use fairly frequently both during bosses as well as during trash pulls (<3 Holy spam).

IMO it's a waste to delegate skills as "emergency cooldowns". It leads to them almost never getting used (because you will always think that you might need them later).

SCH: Dissipation. Still can't find this useful other than for PvP.

AST: Stella. Only useful in PvP to slow enemy's walk.

WHM: Repose. Again, only useful in PvP to sleep enemy.

Maybe if they made Repose apply silence instead of sleep, and... ya know, not making boss fully immune to the effect.

I always use Dissipation at the end of a fight, those extra 3 Energy Drains help boost my dps during the final nuke.

I also use it if shit hits the fan and I have no Aetherflow, A quick Dissipation > Indomitability > boosted Succor > Sacred Soil can fix a bad transition into raid wide damage without using to many GCD's.

The only Scholar abilities I don't use are Ruin and Selene's silence (she's just not responsive enough)

AST: Collective Unconscious. I really hate this ability. I mean yes it gives a powerful regen and a damage reduce, but the fact that you're not ALLOWED to move for the duration urks me, no ones gonna stay in it the whole way. I RARELY use the whole duration of it. Trying to time it right in A1S is just brutal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WolfKid

AST: Collective Unconscious. I really hate this ability. I mean yes it gives a powerful regen and a damage reduce, but the fact that you're not ALLOWED to move for the duration urks me, no ones gonna stay in it the whole way. I RARELY use the whole duration of it. Trying to time it right in A1S is just brutal.

---

How so? You only need to channel 3 second maximum for most of the effect. On A1S especially, you generally stack for first Resin Bomb and you can sprint ahead and put it down during the jumps once you're sure you won't cover the safety spot with Resin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AzureFlare

How so? You only need to channel 3 second maximum for most of the effect. On A1S especially, you generally stack for first Resin Bomb and you can sprint ahead and put it down during the jumps once you're sure you won't cover the safety spot with Resin.

---

Note taken, but its useless if i somehow mess up the timing, not getting it to add the effect to begin with. And i want that damage reduction too, so getting the timing is challenging. Besides aren't the resin bombs during jumps based on RNG? Who's to say the last one won't hit me?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WolfKid

And i want that damage reduction too, so getting the timing is challenging. Besides aren't the resin bombs during jumps based on RNG? Who's to say the last one won't hit me?

---

That's why you sprint ahead after the last bomb. Sure, you won't get the damage reduction (or if you are lucky you might barely), but not being able to mitigate maybe 1300 per person shouldn't be a reason to not use or discredit a potential 7000 per person heal. Especially since I usually time my LA and CO so I get another guaranteed tick, sometimes 2. The first one (using it on Resin cast while stacked, did forget to emphasize this before people get themselves killed) is a bit finicky I'll admit, only reason I do it is I don't really have any better spot to use it the next 90 seconds so I get maybe 9 seconds of AoE healing out of it, with extensions about the same as Aspected Helios would give me.

My least used skill is Cure1. With all the str tanks I've run into its a cure2 spam fest, lol.

On a serious note, I guess aero1 and repose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

My least used skill is Cure1. With all the str tanks I've run into its a cure2 spam fest, lol.

On a serious note, I guess aero1 and repose.

---

Aero? Aero is instant, and costs very little MP, deal instant damage, and applies a decent DoT. I'm not sure how DPSing with a WHM looks at endgame in Heavensward but it has always been a staple in a WHM's DPS rotation since before 3.0.

One stone 3 = one aero. For me it's a wasted slot on my hot x bar

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starmiya

Maybe if they made Repose apply silence instead of sleep, and... ya know, not making boss fully immune to the effect.

---

That's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure it would work. Most boss related silence mechanics are very fast and require either a Pld or Mnk or anyone with an instant apply silence to cancel the move. Repose would be a bit too slow... which brings me another interesting idea for a "fix." SE should make Repose a OGCD and make it an instant cast. We don't use it often enough to keep it on the GCD anyway, so why not change it's utility.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

One stone 3 = one aero. For me it's a wasted slot on my hot x bar

---

It is dps increase if you use ogcd abilities with aero so you wont clip casts.

Leveling all 3 healer jobs, I can safely say that Don't use Repose that much, nor do I use Cure III unless proc'd.

For SCH It's not Miasma II that;s underused as of late but Ruin II. Mainly because I use both as a way to attempt to get some damage in while using Bane. Of course given that it seems to actually need accuracy, I might reconsider that when playing SCH.

AST? Stella. I haven't gotten the job to a point where I can take it to Seize so for now I can say it's useless until I get to that point

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

One stone 3 = one aero. For me it's a wasted slot on my hot x bar

---

Think of it as an on the move dps abilitiy, much like Ruin 2 on Scholar, it's better than nothing as it's instacast.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

For SCH It's not Miasma II that;s underused as of late but Ruin II. Mainly because I use both as a way to attempt to get some damage in while using Bane. Of course given that it seems to actually need accuracy, I might reconsider that when playing SCH.

---

Miasma II stacks with Miasma, it's good for multiple mobs.

Ruin II is for when you have to move but don't need to reapply Bio or Aero just yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eul

SCH: Dissipation. Still can't find this useful other than for PvP.

AST: Stella. Only useful in PvP to slow enemy's walk.

WHM: Repose. Again, only useful in PvP to sleep enemy.

---

Dissipation = Strategic fairy switching to gain stacks before then, raid burn phases for DPS, also during easier phases of fights for immediate stacks for DPS gain cause them Broils are not cheap. When you have AST/WHM soloing some things, it's never a bad idea to take advantage of this skill instead of sitting there watching the Aetherflow to come back and cutting back on DPS.

Stella = A3S to slow adds, just like Stone I.

At lol 60 the only ability that has fell off my hotbar has been Ruin as it has been replaced with broil. I have never really invested time in using Selene's Silent Dusk too.

Miasma II doesn't get much use unless I am solo and sustain, which is particularly situational when my fairies actually take damage. Dissipation is one of those skills that are too situational but still sees usage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Leveling all 3 healer jobs, I can safely say that Don't use Repose that much, nor do I use Cure III unless proc'd.

For SCH It's not Miasma II that;s underused as of late but Ruin II. Mainly because I use both as a way to attempt to get some damage in while using Bane. Of course given that it seems to actually need accuracy, I might reconsider that when playing SCH.

AST? Stella. I haven't gotten the job to a point where I can take it to Seize so for now I can say it's useless until I get to that point

---

WHM C3 is pretty underused; often have to remind WHMs in Thordy of that useful spell :o
Repose oh well... if you sleep a mob somone won't pay attention and AoE or even single target that mob... even with ignore mark :(

SCH well Miasma 2 depends... I don't use it on single target fights/raids or pretty occasionally there because my chances to bait an AoE in melee areas are in current contents too hight I rather fill with more Broils- In fights with more mobs like A2S its just lovely... Shadow Flare -> Miasma 2 -> all other DoTs on mob with vul stacks -> Bane; the Miasma gives extra damage and my driver time to put up the stacks.
Ruin 2 is lovely when moving either way... I use it when Aero and Bio are still ticking and don't use "/autofacetarget off" (damn u Thordy for trolling me there ;p).
I think I actually use all SCH skills some more, some less depending on fight/fairy/situation.

AST Stella really is purely situational... think beyond A3S adds there is no real endgame situation you can use it in a useful way :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

One stone 3 = one aero. For me it's a wasted slot on my hot x bar

---

In synced in content I usually go Stone/Stone II > Aero. Spam Stone/Stone II. Or Aero II > Aero. Spam Stone II.

As WHM, I rarely use Fluid Aura because I know how much it can annoy tanks and dps. Basically I'll only use it to push a mob that won't follow the tank. I have to agree with others on Repose as well. Rarely have a use for it, usually forget I have it.

For SCH, if I can use Ruin II or Broil, I'm never using Ruin. I have only used Dissipation once and it was by accident. >_> My FC mate hated Dissipation so much he switched from SCH main to SMN main.

On AST, and this is terrible, I often forget I have light speed. I'm trying to incorporate it more. I've bounced from SCH being my fave, to AST, to WHM, and now I'm just undecided.

I never use Astrologian's Stella. No room for it on my bar and no point making room for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zaj_Quilos

I never use Astrologian's Stella. No room for it on my bar and no point making room for it.

---

I just started my Astro, and the first thing I thought about when I saw stella was Stone I...only, when I did the fist Astro quest I literally never used it, and ended up spamming that other one (the name of which I don't recall because I'm still new to that job). I kept it on my hotbar in case it came in handy... but I'm getting the impression it never does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Februs

I just started my Astro, and the first thing I thought about when I saw stella was Stone I...only, when I did the fist Astro quest I literally never used it, and ended up spamming that other one (the name of which I don't recall because I'm still new to that job). I kept it on my hotbar in case it came in handy... but I'm getting the impression it never does.

---

It doesn't.

Unless you are doing PvP, but no one plays PvP so that's a moot point.

VanilleFang, according to your signature, you shouldn't use Cure III so rarely, remember: U.Y.B.H.S.A.T.T, LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roxas_Andrade

VanilleFang, according to your signature, you shouldn't use Cure III so rarely, remember: U.Y.B.H.S.A.T.T, LOL

---

Oh snap, you caught me! Don't let the other healers know!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

It doesn't.

Unless you are doing PvP, but no one plays PvP so that's a moot point.

---

Hey now, I play PvP lol. I enjoy a good match of Seal Rock when there's nothing else to do (though Wolves Den really is dead on my server). Still... I don't plan on ever healing that because Ps4 controls would make healing other Alliances near impossible, and parties tend to get split up easy. It's my understanding that only PC players can really heal PvP effectively. So... I guess I'll put Stella in the dustbin early.

Just got to ... 56, I think, with my Whm. Gotta say that I was disappointed to see that my next move is yet another Aero spell... Seriously? Is it any use at all? I know they stack, but, in my experience so far, it has been pretty rare that I ever get the opportunity to stack Aero I + II (since, you know, I kind of have to heal people sometimes. Supposedly). If I only rarely have the time to stack Aero I +II, then I don't imagine I'll find much use for Aero III....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Februs

I just started my Astro, and the first thing I thought about when I saw stella was Stone I...only, when I did the fist Astro quest I literally never used it, and ended up spamming that other one (the name of which I don't recall because I'm still new to that job). I kept it on my hotbar in case it came in handy... but I'm getting the impression it never does.

---

Malefic and Malefic II are the equivalent of the WHM stone spells. Stella is just weird for PVE content. Niche usage, not even useful for soloing anything. Only use i can think of is another source of heavy for A3S add phase.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Februs

Hey now, I play PvP lol. I enjoy a good match of Seal Rock when there's nothing else to do (though Wolves Den really is dead on my server). Still... I don't plan on ever healing that because Ps4 controls would make healing other Alliances near impossible, and parties tend to get split up easy. It's my understanding that only PC players can really heal PvP effectively. So... I guess I'll put Stella in the dustbin early.

Just got to ... 56, I think, with my Whm. Gotta say that I was disappointed to see that my next move is yet another Aero spell... Seriously? Is it any use at all? I know they stack, but, in my experience so far, it has been pretty rare that I ever get the opportunity to stack Aero I + II (since, you know, I kind of have to heal people sometimes. Supposedly). If I only rarely have the time to stack Aero I +II, then I don't imagine I'll find much use for Aero III....

---

As for Aero III, in dungeons try cleric stance>Holy>Assize>Swiftcast>Aero III>Holy and giggle at how much aoe burst damage you have just put out. Aero III should be the first dot you put up on single targets as well. Its an awesome spell.

Dissipation. When do I ever use this? I can't think of any time where it'd be useful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael

As for Aero III, in dungeons try cleric stance>Holy>Assize>Swiftcast>Aero III>Holy and giggle at how much aoe burst damage you have just put out. Aero III should be the first dot you put up on single targets as well. Its an awesome spell.

---

I'll definitely give this a try (sounds like fun)... but I'm still a little concerned.

My grief is not so much with the spell itself. It's with the fact that it seems to be another case of a new spell making an old one completely obsolete. Like stone I, II, and III. Once you have Stone II, you stop using Stone I. Once You get III, you stop using II. With each new version, the old versions get thrown out... which kind of sucks.

At least Aero I gets the benefit of an instant cast. It's easy to stack with Aero III or II depending on the lvl sync, but I don't think I'll have the time to cast all 3 Aeros in a single fight while trying to keep the tank alive. So, Aero II is effectively thrown out in any content in which I can use Aero III.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VitalSuit

Dissipation. When do I ever use this? I can't think of any time where it'd be useful.

---

I assume it's be at points where the Tank needs more than 3 Lustrates or where the Sch did something too early and has to get aetherstacks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

I assume it's be at points where the Tank needs more than 3 Lustrates or where the Sch did something too early and has to get aetherstacks

---

The skill has more use in end-game content. DPSing as Scholar isn't easy on the MP, so consider the skill for burn phases where it's them or a wipe. Maybe downtime is coming and fairy regen isn't needed, so there is extra Energy Drains for DPS use or get a burst of MP for another phase (You can really see this in Thordan Extreme). Can consider when you are thinking of making a strategic fairy change.