Thordan ex sucks.

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Originally Posted by SooChe

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I never created a game in my life, but one thing I know is that a boss fight needs to be done right to be challenging and fun. For example: Boss down to 80%, seen it dive bomb and inflict heavy damage on the tank at certain intervals, then it disappears, oh theres a mark on my head, wipe. That's not how you make a boss. The boss shouldn't be a cake walk per say, but every boss should have to introduce a move in a way you'll be able to react to in the future as it will be reused but with a twist so you'd learn and get more experienced with the concept. That's what I assumed normal dungeons were doing, but no, its all new and hectic in raid fights with expected deaths and thrown in mechanics. If you build the player accordingly with previous fights, they'd be inclined to test themselves with more fights.

If you keep throwing entirely different fights you pull out your #%$ people are gonna get discouraged, and little @#%$heads are gonna complain about people not knowing anything, and they don't know anything because it just came out. What SE did is lazy and if they cared for casuals they wouldn't of came this far to make it this way, if they cared for hardcore players, savage mode would be extended to dungeons where they'd learn hardened mechanics subtly but still pretty difficult. and when they fight a raid boss next on the list, it'd be challenging and tough, but familiar to them. Just my opinion anyway. :/

I do not agree with nerfing content because players refuse to figure out or accept that they might be the main cause of wipes. I would suggest becoming a lot more strict as a party leader, though. If someone makes it very obvious they don't know what they're doing (even after one wipe), give 'em the boot. You're trying to learn the later phases, not the beginning. If this marks you as being elitist to them, so be it. That just means you have one less baddie (liar) to deal with.

You have void ark for a reason, there's barely any challenging content as it is.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I do not agree with nerfing content because players refuse to figure out or accept that they might be the main cause of wipes. I would suggest becoming a lot more strict as a party leader, though. If someone makes it very obvious they don't know what they're doing (even after one wipe), give 'em the boot. You're trying to learn the later phases, not the beginning. If this marks you as being elitist to them, so be it. That just means you have one less baddie (liar) to deal with.

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I'd also recommend blacklisting them at this point too. And if you're REALLY angry at them, tell the entire world how much of a liar they are (provided it doesn't get you banned in the process). The community needs to be more aligned and less full of liars.

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Originally Posted by SooChe

I forsee the next sadistic act which is usually called the "REAR LICK GRIND"

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Thordan will be quite a Challenge for the average player.

i dunno if my static´s healers need to adapt, or had a bad day, but considering most of us being i200+ the damage we get is insane. the AoE´s the Phase2 Knights make oneshot us at some point, i don´t see this done by pugs anytime near.

this is clearly what Yoshi stated - weapons for raid teams to help them with A3+

Sure it will be done soon by random PF groups, as everything, but on the other hand i really find it a quite well designed and cool fight.

Thou I don´t see this done in i190 as requiered...

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

half of them you even encountered through the Heavensward MSQ

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I recall Yoshi stating they did this on purpose so that people were inherently familiar with boss mechanics before they faced the boss itself

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Originally Posted by DragonSlayer45

I don't know what to tell you. Stop PFing it and try to get your static to clear it. If you can't do that, then I guess continue PFing it while befriending those who understand the fight and have a drive to down it. Eventually, you'll find your 8.

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I absolutely hate that every time something needs to be cleared the "get a static" and "stop using pf/df" lines come up the whole process of finding people to play with is entirely dependant on your community. You can't do one without the other, but it seems like no one in a static understands this. Not everyone has the same accessibility to play during hours where content is likely to be cleared, I jump between 2 and 3rd shift and can't commit to ridiculous static times, or have any desire to drag out my laptop to download whatever voip service you're static uses or download whatever parse software you require, ALL for one aspect of content.

Difficulty is good, I've been rather disappointed in most of the new contents difficulty. The dungeons cleared without really knowing any of the 'Tactics' but due to it being the same stuff from a collection of previous dungeons the ability to auto adept and 1 shot the bosses was as shame. Same with Void Ark, one wipe on the 2nd to last boss and that was it no one knew the tactics, full clear minimal effort.

I'm glad something is going to be a challenge, besides Alexander Savage.

Remember yoshi-p's comment after the ThorEx reveal? "this is the original difficulty we had in mind for MSQ."

I like ThorEX's difficulty, bleed for your loot.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

I absolutely hate that every time something needs to be cleared the "get a static" and "stop using pf/df" the whole process of finding people to play with is entirely dependent on your community. You can't do one without the other, but it seems like no one in a static understands this. Not everyone has the same accessibility to play during hours where content is likely to be cleared.

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I think you are misinterpreting what I wrote, but whatever. I don't have a static either because I don't have the time to dedicate to one anymore, but that's besides the point. I was merely speaking of OP's situation because if you read his first post, he already has one.

Not everyone will be able to clear everything immediately when it releases, and if you want to clear it, then you need to put in the same amount of time and effort as everyone else does. The fight doesn't need a nerf. People just need to learn how to work together.

Please, let there be something actually challenging in every patch, otherwise people will grow bored one single day after a new platch is implemented.
We got diadem, easy, got some i210 gear and stuff; easy dungeons; void ark disappointingly easy and eso upgrades made into a mindless grind with hunts that get rekt in .5 secs flat. PLEASE, let there be something in this game that you can't one shot. Please.

I miss the days of Titan HM and Extreme so it's about time we finally got a primal fight that isn't faceroll easy and people have to do mechanics without cheesing the hell out of them.

I LOVE Thordan EX, at least what I've seen so far :o
Finally, we got a fight again that can be won if everyone does mechanics right, instead of mindless dps checks.
Yes, I know, most of this game's community seems to be unable to handle even Sastasha boss mechanics (wooh, click on the water to stop it from spawning an add, horrible! needs to be nerfed!) but Thordan EX is all that I asked and wished for <3

IMO Thordan is the best fight since 3.0 (ravana close behind). I really enjoy this fight. I wished Alexander Savage would be more like this.

First off - can I collect all your rage tears and stuff and sell them please ;)

But yeah Thordan is a fun fight, it is easily my top favorite trial.

I hope future trials and raids will be more like this - but need to keep it fresh as well.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

It's not like an idiot bell goes off when someone joins your Party Finder, if SE would implement that phase practice thing this wouldn't be too much of an issue. This primal is significantly harder than all those before it, so it's no surprise that people go in expecting Ravana. But SE is to blame, why? They didn't lock this behind Ravana and Bismarck, I've seen people literally do 500 DPS with i200-i210 pieces (I wish I was joking)!

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Having done all primals in duty finder and Ravana in party finder I can vouch this primal makes titan ex syced look easy.

That or ive been getting bad parties but i think this primal is still way more demanding of everyone than every other primal so far.

Anyway i hope they dont nerf it. Id get borred if this wasy easy mode clearing. Being hard just forces me to perfect me even more to compensate for others.

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Originally Posted by Alexftw

Having done all primals in duty finder and Ravana in party finder I can vouch this primal makes titan ex syced look easy.

That or ive been getting bad parties but i think this primal is still way more demanding of everyone than every other primal so far.

Anyway i hope they dont nerf it. Id get borred if this wasy easy mode clearing. Being hard just forces me to perfect me even more to compensate for others.

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It actually requires DPS to react to mechanics, tanks to manage cooldowns efficiently, healers to know what to do at certain times, DPS to burst when needed, or hold on CDs for when not but still output an appreciable amount of DPS.

Overall everyone needs to be on their toes and pay attention and not stand in everything. There is such utter chaos going on at some points but I sooo love it when it's going on. I just wish others would pay a bit more attention.

I actually think it is one of the best primal since titan X

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

I actually think it is one of the best primal since titan X

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Hmm for me it would be Thordan, Ravana, Shiva, Levi, Titan I think. As my top five.

Thordan EX difficulty is ok.

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Originally Posted by SooChe

What if you are paired with 7 other idiots every time you create a pf. I created 5 and had at least 3 idiots per game. Some joined even when I stated knowledge of mechanics was needed but they were just freshly new. So, like all forumites suggested, I should help them and train them right? I did. They bailed after they learn the mechanics, didn't clear and I raged inside.

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Put those, who don't play like idiots, into your friendlists (or create a linkshell for it).
Ask first those playes, who you know they play good, to join you before recruiting players with (still) unknow playskills.

Usually when it seems like everyone around you sucks, you are part of the problem.
People in clear parties (3 mistakes, kick) were doing quite well.
Btw in my opinion it is easier than Ravana EX.

Uh what?

Thordan EX was designed from the ground up to be a love letter for the midcore playerbase that has gotten completely shafted for like 5 months. It's also ment to serve as a side-grade for that same player base that still struggles in the latter half of Savage to accommodate for the incredibly tight DPS check said content demands.

The rest of the player base already got two dungeons, Diadem, and Void Ark to enjoy this patch. If you don't like party finder then don't pug through party finder. I've just been running it with my static and progress has been great, we're expecting to farm out our weapons during our next raid window Wednesday.

Heaven forbid you could be expected to play with friends and people you know in an MMO.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

You know, these sorts of posts are what turned WoW into a boring snoozefest.

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wasn't is always??

I kid :P

Your fighting the knights of the round the most OP sumon in ff7.... THEY SHOULD BE HARD.

hmmm...... git gud?

Leviathan Ex was fairly simple. Ramuh Ex took more coordination but it wasn't that bad. Thordan Ex is pretty fun, I don't want it to be nerfed.

I think it's fun and amazing fight! And a challenging one! It's right up there with titan extreme.

This fight is best content we've gotten in a long time, and it's much needed midcore difficulty content. Our group is having a great time progressing in it! The best thing is that most mechanics are very easy to figure out without having to rely on guides. We went in blind and progressed to meteors in the first hour we tried this without knowing anything about the fight beforehand.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Uh... Extreme Primal?

Extreme.

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Technically it's labeled as "hard mode" even on the achievement. Not getting in the middle of this because I know I haven't got far in the fight..and I haven't joined parties because most are asking for past where I am.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

Usually when it seems like everyone around you sucks, you are part of the problem.
People in clear parties (3 mistakes, kick) were doing quite well.
Btw in my opinion it is easier than Ravana EX.

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Considering you can cheese most of the harder hitting mechanics in Rav Ex, and how the dps check was never difficult for the fight, most would heavily disagree with you. This fight is harder than AS1 and AS2 for most pugs and statics.

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Originally Posted by wicked-one

i dunno if my static´s healers need to adapt, or had a bad day, but considering most of us being i200+ the damage we get is insane. the AoE´s the Phase2 Knights make oneshot us at some point, i don´t see this done by pugs anytime near.

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I don't think there's any unavoidable raid damage that hits for over 10k unless you did something wrong.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

I don't think there's any unavoidable raid damage that hits for over 10k unless you did something wrong.

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Skyward leap and spiral pierce (the tethered roflcopter) hits their targeted player for at least 10k without shields. It's a healing check that the healers need to heal instead of pushing their dps for that timeframe. I had to bash that into our healer's heads during our first few nights when we kept having people die to skyward leaps.

Like everyone has said though, most of OP's problems seem to be more on the community if he can't find anyone to do it with, rather than the fight itself (although the premise of alexander certainly didn't help with the mass exodus of players toward greg on most servers)

I think its not even hard enough.
"Extreme", should be a challenge and not a catwalk.

Difficulty is okay, nothing to complain about.

Yes SE how dare you not give us high lvl weapons at the click of a button. Howww daaaarree youuu

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Skyward leap and spiral pierce (the tethered roflcopter) hits their targeted player for at least 10k without shields. It's a healing check that the healers need to heal instead of pushing their dps for that timeframe. I had to bash that into our healer's heads during our first few nights when we kept having people die to skyward leaps.

Like everyone has said though, most of OP's problems seem to be more on the community if he can't find anyone to do it with, rather than the fight itself (although the premise of alexander certainly didn't help with the mass exodus of players toward greg on most servers)

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raid wide brah. those only hit the target for 10k though. The rest don't get hit that hard.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

I don't think there's any unavoidable raid damage that hits for over 10k unless you did something wrong.

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I think holiest is more than 10k, I might be wrong.

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Originally Posted by hagare

raid wide brah. those only hit the target for 10k though. The rest don't get hit that hard.



I think holiest is more than 10k, I might be wrong.

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Even so, it's a lot of spot healing that the healers need to do on non-tank targets. Holiest of holy is definitely up there if both knights are up. Knights 5 though, you will have the entire party eating 10k+ AoEs one after another on top of a dps check.

Toke jopic

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Originally Posted by SooChe

What if you are paired with 7 other idiots every time you create a pf. I created 5 and had at least 3 idiots per game. Some joined even when I stated knowledge of mechanics was needed but they were just freshly new. So, like all forumites suggested, I should help them and train them right? I did. They bailed after they learn the mechanics, didn't clear and I raged inside.

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The only solution here is that you need to become more strict as a party leader. If people obviously don't know the fight to the point where you're trying to practice, kick and replace. If they aren't listening and keep failing the same mechanic, kick and replace. Of course, I know that's not really easy to do. I know I sometimes have a very hard time kicking people from the party (even if they're godawful they're still actual people with actual feelings and they're bound to get upset) but that's the only way to progress when people that clearly didn't read your PF join up. The next best thing you can do is just have a friend that doesn't mind kicking lead the parties and just let them drive; don't fight them when they are inclined to kick someone for poor performance.

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Originally Posted by hagare

I think holiest is more than 10k, I might be wrong.

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Holiest of Holy only hits that hard if your DPS is low so that you get multiple casts once the two PLD start swapping sword/shield oath. Killing one of them lowers the damage drastically. The fight is really well put together in the regard that it rewards you for high DPS without making it absolutely necessary; the damage can be healed through if the DPS just isn't there, but damn is it easier if it is there.

Thordan isnt even that hard lol..
I dindt kill it yet cause my raidgroup is on holidays but i got to 20% with randoms.

If you cant dodge some Aoe and cant organize 8 man that do the same... thats not the prob of SE :rolleyes:

Thordan's difficulty is where it should be. As usual some people are never happy. Too hard? Needs to be gimped. Now it is too easy and needs to be harder. The usual case of never being satisfied because said folks do not know what they want, they only know what they don't want.

Thordan is definitely my favorite fight to come out of the expansion so far and hope more Extreme fights in the future and even raid content (of course harder like version) take inspiration from it.

On a funny note however, here is Thordan EX in a nutshell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDYn6a6pbZY