Regarding healers acting as DPS

Well, one thing the OP didn't make clear is the tank attitude in the fights they've done. For the Lv of the dungeon, I can't say if the tank was or wasn't using cooldowns. If he was, then he got almost desperate when he got low on health despite all his effort, then he thought it would be a tough run without a "good" healer. If he wasn't using CDs, then he was just a moron.

Other day in Neverreap, I switched to Cleric to deal some damage, but after one or two spells, the tank died. In the first pull. He wasn't using CDs at all and had Asp.Bene on him. I could've used something but it happened too fast. I then understood that I had to focus on healing. I was ok with it.
The tank went through the entire dungeon without using a single CD. And it took forever to get to the last boss, cause dps was not that high. I helped dps just a little, but I focused on the healing as needed. After the last boss, one of the DPS said "You shoud've queued as dps" and left.

I guess there are player that are casual or want to play safe. There's nothing wrong with that, but I just wanted my DR bonus for the day, I wanted that to be fast. I adapted to the playstyle of the group, took a deep breath, slowed down, but it was pointless in the end...

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Originally Posted by Roxas_Andrade

I guess there are player that are casual or want to play safe. There's nothing wrong with that, but I just wanted my DR bonus for the day, I wanted that to be fast. I adapted to the playstyle of the group, took a deep breath, slowed down, but it was pointless in the end...

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Not your fault the DPS couldn't recognize the shortcomings of the tank. I've had more than one occasion that a DPS stepped up in my defense when a tank mass pulls and fails to support me with any CD's. Typically, I prefer to overheal and do a little less damage on the first pull to feel out the party's DPS and the tank's abilities, and also to show my higher healing potential and willingness to DPS. I'll give you credit for carrying the tank, though. My patience doesn't extend far enough for that.

My advice, keep cleric stance on your bar. As others have said before, the primary role of the healer is to keep the party alive. There are some tanks who thrive on being topped off consistently (Just something I notice as well consistently in the Duty Finder). You were correct to gauge the gear of the tank and dps. As long as you do not let the tank die and he keeps hate, then you are doing fine. This happens to me all the time when I play my SCH job in the low level roulettes, when I play especially in fractal or level 50 dungeon roulette on my SCH job. If I play tank in a lower level roulette, I love seeing healers dps, even when I play dps because it speeds the dungeon time up and things move quite smoothly :). Again this is just my opinion so take from it what you will.

Haven't read through all of posts here but low level is just that, low level.. people are always pissy not wanting to do it, or they just don't know how to properly play. Most people are new, so even if the tank was in a bad mood and initiates the vote dismiss, if the other 2 DPS are newer players, they would probably just agree since until you've played for months and have experience, you usually just trust that whoever initiated the vote dismiss probably knows more than I do and that there's a good reason for it. So I wouldn't stress too much. I don't let the tanks get too low though but I also don't top off non stop. The only time I usually let them get under 50% is if I've popped Regen etc on them and I'm spamming Holy or Gravity something they can clearly see I'm doing, all with my finger not far from the Bene button or the sort of similar one for AST. (I main AST now but can't remember the name, essential dignity?).

Everybody heals differently. Everybody tanks differently. Honestly, if as a player you need to worry about satisfying the expectations of another player, without that player even mentioning them, while you're still fulfilling the expectations set by the game, then SE might as well put a giant banner when starting the game saying 'You must be a psychology major to play this game'.

The correct way of doing an encounter is ensuring the party doesn't fall while the enemy does. That's as basic as it gets. Even if you all hit the floor right at the end.

No offense, but I'd probably done the same, maybe with telling you in front why and if you'd not change the vote would come.

Pushing some DPS as a heal is nice and all but first and foremost you should not let the tank go without a heal, just throw it at him to let him know you are there, never mind the fact that he may not need it at all.
If I'd want a third dps look-a-like on a healer slot, I'd look for a game like that...
People these days might be rude, for kicking you without saying anything, BUT you are somewht rude too for not healing a tank when he drops to 25%, those poor fragile things get scared a lot, you know? Never heard of a WoW-Paladin using Bubble and Hearthstone? (For those who might not know -> google :D)
Anyway, if you want to continue that way, at least let your party know beforehand, even if its just a "Yo, i'm healing if it's necessary don't be afraid, but mainly i'll push dat damage!".

Just my two cents :D

Don't let it get to you, OP... I main SCH, I usually don't heal tanks until they are at ~30% HP, and even then it sort of depends on the mobs that are left... If they ain't dead, then everything's a-ok in my opinion. That being said, throwing him a cure after the fight would probably have been better, if only just to show them that you are, in fact, watching those HP bars as you should.
I don't condone vote kicking abuse like that with literally no attempt at communication, but as someone who also plays a tank I do get that sometimes you just can't be sure if the healer feels confident enough to DPS or if they're just having a serious case of tunnel vision. If I had been in that specific situation I'd have been inclined to think the second, if you didn't throw him a single benefic :P

To reiterate what many others have said: don't change a thing. People need to learn that a healer's job isn't to heal HP but rather to prevent HP from reaching 0. As long as nobody dies, then you're doing your job, and any healing beyond what is absolutely necessary is a decision based entirely on your confidence in your own skill as well as your party members'.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm just like you. I constantly push the limits of my own DPS/healing abilities and let the tank get as low as possible before healing. And for what it's worth, I've never gotten kicked from a duty before; I've had complaining, sure, and I don't get as many comms as I used to when I was learning how to heal (and didn't DPS as much). So I think this is an isolated incident, and I would pay it no mind.

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Originally Posted by YuiSasaki

If I'd want a third dps look-a-like on a healer slot, I'd look for a game like that...

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Right back at you: the game requests of me to buy my team enough time to finish an encounter by providing healing. It doesn't say when, it doesn't say how, it doesn't say where. It isn't my duty to make sure a tank's fragile mind isn't suffering from fear. Whatever else I do is additional stuff.
That includes both providing DPS and making your health never drop below 50% so you can be oh so sure you won't die.

You think it is rude for not healing a tank that drops to 25%, I think it is rude of someone to expect me to do my job differently when I do all if not nearly all of the healing, and no one dies regardless. If anything, judge the moment you die.

I encountered a similar situation when I got Copperbell for leveling on my AST. It wasn't the other party members that questioned me, it was the ACN, who stopped his dps to physic the tank. I ate the timer and dropped rather than continue the argument.

You're playing just fine, but with duty finder parties, you may need to communicate a bit more. There are tanks out there who know what they're doing and see you playing to your best, and there are others who won't trust you bc they think you're dpsing at the expense of heals. That's a negotiation that needs to be talked about. "Hey, I'm going to be doing a lot of dps, but I won't let you die! My dps will make this go faster." If the tank says they're not comfortable you can either heal more to compromise, or eat a timer like I did.

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Originally Posted by YuiSasaki

No offense, but I'd probably done the same, maybe with telling you in front why and if you'd not change the vote would come.

Pushing some DPS as a heal is nice and all but first and foremost you should not let the tank go without a heal, just throw it at him to let him know you are there, never mind the fact that he may not need it at all.
If I'd want a third dps look-a-like on a healer slot, I'd look for a game like that...
People these days might be rude, for kicking you without saying anything, BUT you are somewht rude too for not healing a tank when he drops to 25%, those poor fragile things get scared a lot, you know? Never heard of a WoW-Paladin using Bubble and Hearthstone? (For those who might not know -> google :D)
Anyway, if you want to continue that way, at least let your party know beforehand, even if its just a "Yo, i'm healing if it's necessary don't be afraid, but mainly i'll push dat damage!".

Just my two cents :D

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If the tank is alive, then the tank is alive, no matter if it's a WAR Holmgang'ing on to that 1 HP or a PLD stacking Rampart and Sentinel at full health with Galvanize and Stoneskin. Is it really necessary to throw the tank an unneeded heal just to soothe his ego? It's not up to another player to determine my comfort zone.

Sometimes I can be an egotistical healer, because of course I think my way is the best way. I'm good at what I do, and if you question my methods, I'd probably get defensive, especially during a lowbie dungeon like Copperbell. I hate when others try to micro-manage my role, especially when I'm exceeding its requirements, but to think that letting a tank's HP dip when he's being peppered by spriggans could be considered rude? I have to disagree. It's a difference in playstyles, nothing more.

It's one thing for the tank to say he's not comfortable at low HP, or he's new to his role, he had a long day at work, he's drunk, I can work with that. It's not the tank's place to tell me what skills I should use when, when the tank hasn't even died in the first place. If they wanted that much control, they should have rolled a healer (See? There's that ego coming out).

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Originally Posted by Riki_Namu

You straight up weren't doing your role. That would be like a tank tanking in a dps stanece not holding threat well and taking more damage making you sweat because you have to constantly heal him while getting slapped in the face by adds he couldn't keep control of.

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What nonsense did you just type? The only role any healer has to perform is keeping the party alive.

Absolutely does not matter how low they go. If no one dies, they are within means to handle the healing. Going further, they can CHOOSE to DPS if they want.

To top it off, If they are maintaining both of those conditions, there are no warrants to dismissal assuming no harassment in other ways. Not DPSing on a healer class is not a requirement for dismissal under harassment either and dismissing someone because of this can get you temp banned via harassment if you get reported.

For all you know OP, you may have been dismissed simply because they wanted to bring a friend in.

I think people forgetting that the poster of this thread is referring to a situation where they are in a LOW level dungeon with everyone OVERGEARED etc etc.

I remember doing low level dungeons with my whm and did not have to cast a single cure until boss fights. Assuming the tank only wants to tank 3-4 mobs at a time, in a low level dungeon by the time the tank runs up to the next set of mobs, they should be at 100% hp from natural hp recovery. No slowing down, no idling, nothing. The natural hp regen will keep up.

Just do what you have been doing Adol. Staying in cleric stance when you can and dpsing makes the run so much faster.

Either way, whether or not you healed after those mobs will not change the speed of the run... unless the tank dies from a nervous breakdown because his hp is too low. bwhaha

Also some of the replies to you in this thread made me really cringe lol. "Healers must heaaal! Moar heals! Healers only Heal! Do your role as specifically as defined on the official Final Fantasy 14 wiki in subsection 4-3B! My way is the best! HP under 99% OMG! HP is now 98%?! *heart attack". Okay obviously i exaggerated but yeah xD.

The community really needs to make up its mind about healers DPSing. One minute it's, "Lazy healers are just sitting on their thumbs the whole dungeon, if they would just dps this would go so much faster." The Next minute it's, "WTH healer? Why are you DPSing and letting my health get so low? I almost died in that last trash pull. You need to git gud and just spam cure on me." Ah, DF life.

Well, it's part of attitude I guess. It's kind of rude (at least for me) to let your tank's HP depleted to 25% as a healer in dungeon, especially with random players you have never met before.
I always DPS as SCH/WHM but never take it so far to leave the tank to 25%, but I do slack as a healer and act a bit more like DPS if I run dungeon with friends (else my Benediction and Tetragrammaton or Lustrate just sit there unused for whole run).

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Everyone was well geared, including the tank. I gauged after the first pull that the tank would not need healing during any non-boss encounter 99% of the time and so I continued to do damage instead of heal.

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Just throw Aspected Benefic and stance dance once in a while to throw 1-2 heal or Essential Dignity so the tank won't reach 25% of HP. It's part of your job, do it properly.

Well, I mean if you run with random players, be nice with them. You don't know what kind of people you run with.

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Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

The community really needs to make up its mind about healers DPSing. One minute it's, "Lazy healers are just sitting on their thumbs the whole dungeon, if they would just dps this would go so much faster." The Next minute it's, "WTH healer? Why are you DPSing and letting my health get so low? I almost died in that last trash pull. You need to git gud and just spam cure on me." Ah, DF life.

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My thoughts exactly. If I had to spam heal to play catch up after one Stone III cast, then you've asked for something completely inefficient. I have what I prioritize and it keeps the DPS and tanks focused on their job. Healing is a situational job and more often than not the healer knows their limits or will figure it out quickly.

Main WHM here.

When it comes to DPSing, I never let a tank drop below 50% when doing so. While I'm not running something as simple as Copperbell NM (and I have three regeneration spells to put on said tank), it is still something you generally should not do. I'm currently levelling up a tank and noticing a lot of healers are simply not keeping me above 50%, thus causing me to pop cooldowns when they're too busy either just doing nothing or DPSing. I'd like to note that the former is the most often case, though.

So, try to put yourself in the shoes of the tank. Would a tank like being at 25% HP? I don't think so. I don't think your kick was warranted, but I do believe you should not let a tank drop that low. It's just something to make the tank feel comfortable.

I'd also like to note that a tank being at 25% HP is generally dangerous no matter what you do. As their HP gets lower, there's an ever-increasing chance for them to die. What if you miscalculated the damage? What if you disconnected, thus the monsters didn't die fast enough? There's a lot of other factors that simply rules out leaving a tank at that low HP.

EDIT: Gods, this thread is starting to look toxic.

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Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

The community really needs to make up its mind about healers DPSing.

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The whole "healers shouldn't be dealing damage" mentality is coming really close to feminazism right now. Apparently healers who can do a job just as good as a one trick pony (ie: nothing but healing) AND do a bit more as icing on the cake is unacceptable.

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Originally Posted by Aika_Nakamura

I'm currently levelling up a tank and noticing a lot of healers are simply not keeping me above 50%, thus causing me to pop cooldowns when they're too busy either just doing nothing or DPSing.
So, try to put yourself in the shoes of the tank. Would a tank like being at 25% HP?

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You should naturally be using cooldowns anyway, so how is that "forcing" you to do something? Even if it was, it's part of your job anyway to provide at least a bit of mitigation. That's what you have those cooldowns for in the first place ;)
Also, get ready for a world of pain when you encounter tank busters. Dropping to 1-3% of your max. HP or even less is not rare and something tank's just have to learn to live with. They have to trust the healers to save them, so better start learning to trust early on, when the healer let's your HP drop in leveling dungeons before the rescue.

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Originally Posted by Aika_Nakamura

I'd also like to note that a tank being at 25% HP is generally dangerous no matter what you do. What if you disconnected, thus the monsters didn't die fast enough?

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Sorry, but THAT's your argument? If you disconnect, you can't heal the tank either, which means he'll die anyway, no matter if you'd rather heal or dps. Disconnection means you are not providing ANY kind of help.

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Originally Posted by Ldlv

Just throw Aspected Benefic and stance dance once in a while to throw 1-2 heal or Essential Dignity so the tank won't reach 25% of HP. It's part of your job, do it properly.

Well, I mean if you run with random players, be nice with them. You don't know what kind of people you run with.

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So trow a lvl 34 skill in lvl 17 dungeon?

It's as if everyone fails to read the "normal mode copper bell mine.

Seriously though, if one cure from overgeared healer heals nearly 100% of HP why should anyone spam it nonstop?
Or if tank loses 1-3% hp from one attack, where's the need to heal at 25% hp? I get it not letting tank drop to 25% in the latest dungeons where mobs hits closer to 10% off the tank.

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Originally Posted by AniCelestine

It's as if everyone fails to read the "normal mode copper bell mine.
Seriously though, if one cure from overgeared healer heals nearly 100% of HP why should anyone spam it nonstop?

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I was in Copperbell NM just a few days ago as a lvl 57 healer, and everytime I healed the tank, even if I did it without turning Cleric Stance off and only after he dropped to about 15% HP, it still topped him off AND gave me instant hate from every single monster because heal aggo was that strong. Now imagine I actually spammed heals..:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by AzureFlare

It isn't my duty to make sure a tank's fragile mind isn't suffering from fear.

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Healers = Psicologists LOL

I started recently leveling up some tanks (2 of them are now 50+, so I've got some experience now), and I can see why some tanks can have an issue with healer dpsing.
Of course, as a main scholar, I can't see myself not dpsing in a dungeon, but I always make my best to not let the tank go under 50-60% because I understand how stressful it can be.
Even if you view it as inefficient because you know the tank will probably end up at 10-20% at the end of the pack, it's not great for everyone.
The tank will start doubting you and might act differently, and instead of speeding the run, it'll slow it down.
In my book, tank should never go under 50% hp, unless you're premade and you know each other enough.
It's just about balance, you don't need to spam heal 24/7, but you still have to do your job in a way that makes everyone confident while still helping dps.

One factor to consider is that, especially in DF, there's plenty of players who only play "Healers" so they don't deal with Queue times. These players will literally never heal, and it can easily lead to a lot of unnecessary deaths. The Tank in this case likely thought you were one of those players, even though you were just adding DPS.

When I started my Tank, I got worried when my health drops below 25%. Sure, a good healer can easily manage that, especially if you're overgeared. Thing is, a lot of healers can't manage that, or (even worse) won't. The "Tank/Healer" relationship is all about trust. When I tank with a buddy, I don't care how low I get, since I know he's got me covered. When I'm in DF...I have no idea how good (or awful) the healer is, so I have to play it a little more careful.

The Tank was definitely wrong to just vote kick you without saying anything, but I think you probably should have thrown a couple of heals on him here or there, just to make him feel safe. Or a simple "Hey, I'm going to focus on DPS since we're all Overgeared, but I'll make sure you won't die. Sound good?" would have handled the issue as well.

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Originally Posted by Aika_Nakamura

I'd also like to note that a tank being at 25% HP is generally dangerous no matter what you do. As their HP gets lower, there's an ever-increasing chance for them to die. What if you miscalculated the damage?

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It's happened before, I'm not perfect and I can make mistakes. There was a rare occasion that I would misjudge my timing or the incoming damage, and I would let the tank die. I'd apologize for getting greedy, make a joke, and we'd carry on. Sometimes I'd get passive aggressive ellipses, or the party would make fun of me, but nothing felt worse than my own disappointment for letting the tank down. Still, how else do you find your outer limits without pushing them and making mistakes?

I haven't wiped a group in months. I've learned the pulse of enemy GCD's, learned to account for the slightest delays of animations and latency, how to adapt to my tank's skill level and CD usage, because I took risks and made mistakes in order to learn what is actually dangerous, and what is a safely calculated risk. Each player can only determine that for themselves, and it's ok to have a comfort level that's entirely different from another healer.

What you did was fine, for people saying you should heal the tank at 50% >.>, you must not play with a tank all the time, and you prob df. If you overheal a tank, they will get lazy and not use their CDs, its a fine balance between keeping them alive and maximizing dps, and anyone who'd kick you for doing it, while they are still alive (no wipes), has not been through anything hard in this game. The fact that you can already swap between healing and dpsing, and also that you can even deduce how much healing might be needed already means you are ready for more difficult content.

As a healer, my minimum required is to keep the party alive. If everyone is alive it's ok, it doesn't matter if it's at 100% health or 20% health. That's it. There's nothing else to discuss. You did your minimium required which is healing enough to keep the tank alive.
Now, if the tank doesn't like your playstyle and the other party members agree, they can kick you, it's a valid reason to kick (we can debate if it was good enough). The problem wasn't that you were DPSing, the problem is that the tank and the other teammates didn't know what were you thinking, i'm pretty sure that if you had told them that you weren't healing that much because it was unnecessary outside boss battle, they wouldn't have kicked you.

You can't say you need to keep tanks HP above a certain threshold, every dungeon and instance has its characteristics. Healers, Tanks and DPS's have to adapt to each dungeon/trial/raid/whatever. Maybe you can say, above 30% HP it's enough, but it can change, every circumstance is different. My advise is that you need to adapt to the situation, if you see that the tank is dying too fast, don't DPS that much (or don't DPS at all if you are having troubles keeping him alive). But not only for healers, tanks in that case should use CD more often, and DPS's should try to kill that mob that is dealing that much damage. Everyone needs to contribute.

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Originally Posted by Seryl199

*Snip* I have to disagree. It's a difference in playstyles, nothing more.

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Indeed it is a difference in playstyles and I might've overpushed it a bit by saying it is "rude" of the heal to not heal if the tank drops low, but - at least in my opinion - the most important point of my reply was, that it's important to communicate with other players, not only via duty finder, raids etc... It's one of the most important aspects - also, at least in my opinion - in MMORPGs, and sadly many other MMORPG-communities somehwat gave up on that aspect.

Reading over it again by now, it might've not pointed out as much as necessary, but...well.. who cares :>

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Originally Posted by YuiSasaki

Indeed it is a difference in playstyles and I might've overpushed it a bit by saying it is "rude" of the heal to not heal if the tank drops low, but - at least in my opinion - the most important point of my reply was, that it's important to communicate with other players, not only via duty finder, raids etc... It's one of the most important aspects - also, at least in my opinion - in MMORPGs, and sadly many other MMORPG-communities somehwat gave up on that aspect.

Reading over it again by now, it might've not pointed out as much as necessary, but...well.. who cares :>

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Fair enough. I joined an in progress lowbie Tam Tara run last night where they had a DPS healer wiping the group. I assured them that even though I planned on DPS'ing, I wouldn't let them down, and we wrapped up the last 1/4 of the dungeon with no issues. Communicating just helps smooth things over, plus I can't help but love those cute little sproutlings. I did cherry pick a few points from your quote, but only to get my point across stronger anyways. Cheers!

That sucks... you probably had one of them Tanks that cant stand to see his HP go below 90% while wearing full STR on the right and trying to pull the entire dungeon and not popping a single CD. A healer who can put out damage while keeping the party alive is great. You did that and more so dont worry. You just happened to get stuck with a group of friends that abuse the Vote kick or were with a standard "mob mentality" group that click yes to whatever pops on screen.

Keep doing what you are doing brew.

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Originally Posted by Valesti_Peleiades

To reiterate what many others have said: don't change a thing. People need to learn that a healer's job isn't to heal HP but rather to prevent HP from reaching 0. As long as nobody dies, then you're doing your job, and any healing beyond what is absolutely necessary is a decision based entirely on your confidence in your own skill as well as your party members'.

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This! Emphasis mine. To OP, it seems like you're good at your job and aiming to use it for the biggest possible benefit for your group. If someone doesn't appriciate that, that's their loss.

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Originally Posted by Aika_Nakamura

I'm currently levelling up a tank and noticing a lot of healers are simply not keeping me above 50%, thus causing me to pop cooldowns when they're too busy either just doing nothing or DPSing.

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As a tank, your job is to use your abilities to help your group to make the fights go as smoothly as possible. Using cooldowns should not be considered an extra effort but instead something you constantly do to help your group. I play both healers (I'm main SCH but also play WHM) and tank (PLD) in dungeons and I often time Sentinel and even Hallowed Ground so that I can give some time for my healer to put their DoTs up. I trust my healer to handle their part while I handle mine (or the opposite when I'm playing the healer) and I don't expect to be babysat through the dungeon.

It's Copperbell, what you did wrong is not letting him drop below 10%.

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Originally Posted by Calypsx

Us tanks can get over it, trust me. As long as we don't die I don't care what hp i'm at.

Don't let this group get to you op.

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I wouldn't give a healer like the OP a comm if I were the tank, but I wouldn't of kicked him.

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Originally Posted by Taika

As a tank, your job is to use your abilities to help your group to make the fights go as smoothly as possible. Using cooldowns should not be considered an extra effort but instead something you constantly do to help your group. I play both healers (I'm main SCH but also play WHM) and tank (PLD) in dungeons and I often time Sentinel and even Hallowed Ground so that I can give some time for my healer to put their DoTs up. I trust my healer to handle their part while I handle mine (or the opposite when I'm playing the healer) and I don't expect to be babysat through the dungeon.

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I agree wholeheartedly. However, I was talking about abilities such as Hallowed Ground. You'll never convince me to not save Hallowed Ground for that critical moment where the healer is simply not healing me. I always keep buffs (and DoTs) up whenever it makes sense, but popping a cooldown with something like a 180sec cooldown on a random trash pull where I'm not taking much damage anyway seems a bit asinine. Yes, I should make the fights get by smooth enough, of course; I've played a WHM (it's my main job at this point; I've played SCH as well, but in the lv50 days) and I love to DPS. So, I'd like the tank mitigates if they can. However, I always save a cooldown or two for the event that simply something goes awry. In DF groups, this is common. I'll save something (like the +20% buff) for that event that the healer just blanks out.

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Originally Posted by Seryl199

snip

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Learning is a wonderful thing; I don't judge you for it whatsoever.

Well, I'd be lying if I said I've never done the same. However, I say "25% is dangerous" in the sense of a) random burst damage, b) some tanks actually complain about this. I've let tanks drop below 25% more than once and I've the same experiences. I don't generally "anticipate" attacks like that (okay, I do quite a lot, but I try not to), mainly because I've found that a lot of DF tanks simply do not like it when you do that. I'm also running out of character space here, ugh.

Personally when I'm tanking I prefer healers to keep me over 50%.
As I general rule I value safety over speed.

I wouldn't kick someone for letting me go lower though or even tell them to change their play style so long as we're progressing smoothly.
I know a lot of players like to focus on maximizing dps while tanking or healing and I respect that a lot of them are skilled enough to pull it off even though it's not something I feel comfortable with.

In this thread, people playing with tanks lives in order to be weaksauce BLMs. Seriously, you all should know better.

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Originally Posted by Calypsx

Us tanks can get over it, trust me. As long as we don't die I don't care what hp i'm at.

Don't let this group get to you op.

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Oh you piss your pants dude when your HP is 2000/16000 longer than 3 seconds(you're dead in 4 seconds). Don't even try to lie about it.

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Originally Posted by Aika_Nakamura

I agree wholeheartedly. However, I was talking about abilities such as Hallowed Ground. You'll never convince me to not save Hallowed Ground for that critical moment where the healer is simply not healing me. I always keep buffs (and DoTs) up whenever it makes sense, but popping a cooldown with something like a 180sec cooldown on a random trash pull where I'm not taking much damage anyway seems a bit asinine. Yes, I should make the fights get by smooth enough, of course; I've played a WHM (it's my main job at this point; I've played SCH as well, but in the lv50 days) and I love to DPS. So, I'd like the tank mitigates if they can. However, I always save a cooldown or two for the event that simply something goes awry. In DF groups, this is common. I'll save something (like the +20% buff) for that event that the healer just blanks out.

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And if you died, then your point would make sense. Why would you pop a 180sec cooldown on a random trash pull where you're not taking much damage anyways? It's a trash pull, there won't be a tankbuster ( and if there will, your healer will generally know about it ) or a reason to panic. You can sit at ~10-20% HP comfortably, and trust that your healer will see it and take care of you. That's all they have to do. I, personally, am still getting used to high-level healing, so I only stance dance when I'm comfortable, but I know how much HP I can throw at a moment's notice, and I can see how quickly your HP drops.

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

I wouldn't kick someone for letting me go lower though or even tell them to change their play style so long as we're progressing smoothly.
I know a lot of players like to focus on maximizing dps while tanking or healing and I respect that a lot of them are skilled enough to pull it off even though it's not something I feel comfortable with.

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This! Emphasis mine. I have a lot of respect for a tank who's willing to be set outside their comfort zone because they trust that healers understand how to fulfill the basic requirements of their role (i.e., prevent HP from reaching 0) until proven otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Blessedbythesun

I don't think people who don't play healers understand how stressful the job is. But each job has it's own stresses. Tanks need to trust their healers to make the proper decisions.

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Tanking isn't stressful, especially not in copperbell. Unless you are seriously undergeared and can't hold hate to a candle.

If anything is stressful it's because some people have performance anxiety where their job performance is clear as day and that is usually why they are less tanks and to a lesser extent, healers.

I don't care how low my HP is as a warrior, as long as they can handle keeping me alive that is all that matters. If you have done some of the end-game raids like coil and savage as a tank, you'll know that it's OK to be extremely low HP from a hit. If i'm that beat over it I make sure i'm in Defiance-Equalibirum to self-heal.