Scion purchaseable sets limited by gender? Why?!

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Don't confuse what real people will wear on the street in the real world with what characters in a fantasy video game might wear. SE has never had any problem with flamboyantly dressed male characters in previous FF games.

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wtf dude are you blind? my next sentence (that you conveniently left out) is similar ( male CNJ robes) to what you are saying. :|

I have said before and will always continue, SE should go back to how they used to do and make items uni-sex. The items before used to be uni-sex with a male and female option, this was the best and this was the reason that people commended SE for their fair treatment of both genders. Males were not only brutish warriors and females had the option to go for a tomboyish route. Just like how there are males who love to sex up their female avatars, there are females/straight guys/gay guys who love to make to outfit their male character in a sexy way. Sadly SE does not agree with this, which is odd, because in the past these type of armours were released with no problem.

@players with female avatars: I have to agree with the OP, but I find only fair that they release a manfilia outfit aswell. Give males the hairstyle and change the chest part and its a male version. SE can do this, but they choose not to do this, because of time/money/effort etc. I think this is a good eye-opener for the players who were unaware that male have been facing this issue for a long time and to be honest, I think this is a good lesson for players with female avatars who always come to these type of threads and complain that players with male avatars need to use a fantasia and stop complainng. Now you know how the other side feels.

To the players who dislike seeing males in "girly" outfit, just like in real life they have the option to IGNORE IT!. When you see someone in a outfit in real life that you do not approve, are you going to walk to them and tell them to change their outfit? NO! You IGNORE IT and MOVE ON!. So what if SE releases some "sexy feminine" outfit for male avatars, the option is there for others and you to dress up in them, if you dislike it, IGNORE! and MOVE ON!

@SE go back to how it used to be, manly and female outfits for both genders and release outfits in uni-sex only or give both genders equal amount of glamour options per patch or do not release anything at all.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

If that was true, they'd be race as well as gender locked. There were five newly modeled versions of each piece, because the original NPC was only one of the six races. If they can adjust them to fit all races, then they can adjust them to fit both genders of all races.

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Actually no. All races except lalafell can use the hyur model scaled to a different height. This is why Miqo'te lost their butts cause they are actually using the hyur model scaled by the engine to fit the different dimensions.

And since I can't edit on the phone:

The only model that got made for Minfilia's item was the lalafell one due to their proportions.

No, they cann't adjust them to fit the other gender because the actual mesh structure is different. Different shoulder and chest characteristics that would have to manually be modified (like the lalafell version) vs just a mathematical scale operation on the whole or part of the model.

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Originally Posted by Lukha

Basic logic and also opening your eyes and looking at the avatars and names of the people complaining would tell you that it's not the same people making the complaints?

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Basic logic should have told you my comment was not directed at anyone SPECIFIC, but the complaining population as a whole. Next time, I'll draw you a picture.

For my part, since I've followed the story up now, I find it great that they locked the Story-Driven characters sets to be exclusive to their gender.

I don't want to see a male dressed as Minfillia.

Even if on a female, a 'male' look like Thancred would do, I'm still happy they chose not to.

Gives me a sense of who's who in the game. And the unique feeling.

In an MMO, seeing everyone looking the same, is super bland for me..

Like others said it here and on other threads, if you love the specific gear, fantasia is your friend.

Else, ask SE to created a third gender for every race.

Now, just like our regular gear, it should have been multiple parts, but that's another thing. (Maybe doing so they save on Data?)

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

WOW, the whining never stops, does it? For months, the forum has been subjected to countless threads crying about males having less glamour choices than females. So, SE makes a change and adds a bunch of male only sets for purchase (as well as some female only too), and now you're crying because they're not unisex?

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Actually, what the bulk of people have been wanting are less gender-locked costumes overall. More gender-restricted costumes is not the answer.

It should be no problem to create gear for both genders that change the appearance depend of the charcter's gender, like many 1.0 gears (colliseum set as an example).

The problem is that Minfillia's gear will not look like Minfillia's gear on a male, but like a gear that look just similar to Minfillia's gear. Men will never get a wonder-bra in this game.

I don't know why they didn't include Louisoix's outfit and hairstyle

Though I am not surprised that I see me Minifilia's walking around than the others ... but then again the others are pretty meh

Males wearing Minfilia's outfit would be the worst thing to happen to Final Fantasy since Kuja from FF9.

Why is one set of outfits held to scrutiny over the tons of others that exist? I mean, my first thought when seeing Minfilia outfit was that it's an homage to the character, and as she is a female, then it wouldn't work for everyone.

Same with Lightining.

Then I just moved on with my life. Not everything has to be equal all the time. Variety is the spice of life. Don't water everyone down just to make people momentarily happy. I wager that a year from now, no one will care.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

Why is one set of outfits held to scrutiny over the tons of others that exist? I mean, my first thought when seeing Minfilia outfit was that it's an homage to the character, and as she is a female, then it wouldn't work for everyone.

Same with Lightining.

Then I just moved on with my life. Not everything has to be equal all the time. Variety is the spice of life. Don't water everyone down just to make people momentarily happy. I wager that a year from now, no one will care.

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Fundamentally, the thread is about six different sets. The only reason the Minfilia set is being singled out is because the original poster proposed having six sets for girls and five for guys, which in light of the current glamour imbalance would have been more than a little unfair. Lightning is different because there was Snow at the same time.

'Not everything has to be equal all the time' isn't a very soothing philosophy when it ends up with things being unequal - in the exact same way - every time, something I happen to have a problem with. If you don't, great, you can check out other threads :)

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Originally Posted by Yukiba

Because the world is becoming insane... This type of behavior is forcing its way into every aspect of life. Everything and everyone has to be equal in every aspect with no differences and we have to be oh so careful not to hurt peoples feelings... etc etc. Just saw this today and perfectly illustrates the point.. >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKcWu0tsiZM&sns=tw RIP Sanity

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When did these forums become a soapbox for insane people to whine about "political correctness gone mad".

Hey.. instead of asking for more "male" glamours that only 1% of the total server will use... why not focus on more SERIOUS MATTERS. LIKE bringing butt volume back. SAY NO TO FLATNESS and bring back that ROUNDNESS !!!

Also.. stop using the cashgrab shop. This was an already in game item that SE put in the cashgrab shop for another ridiculous price much like the 6 legged horse. But yall peoples just gobble this stuff man.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

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Not me. I've been advocating for Unisex options since I started talking about it. I don't blame people though, they saw it as the easiest solution and went with it. I'm hoping the push for all outfits to be made unisex is stronger than ever though!

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Originally Posted by NatSilverguard

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I think a better example might be the Immortal flames Loincloth or some of the other various feminine sets. Either way, SE hasn't seemed to have an issue with dudes look super feminine in their games before, heck plenty of options to wear feminine stuff already, just some of it's limited.


Either way, I'm in support of making all outfits Unisex with as little modifications done to them as possible, like the addition of bras or removal of them when applicable. If dudes are gonna wear the Minfilia outfit I don't want it to be a masculinized Minfilia outfit. It's gotta be as similar as they can get it.

Well, here's my attempt at an Yda glamour for my MNK. Saved me $$# on Fantasia + her (not unique)outfit
http://i.imgur.com/8r3VLbkl.jpg

They really should make glamour-only versions of some of the low-level DoW sets.

I just keep thinking back to the Vegas Fan Fest and the man who *rocked* that Minfilia cosplay.

F gender locks, seriously. Oh, and let mages wear heavy armor. Let people dress their characters however they want.

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Originally Posted by Mandze

I just keep thinking back to the Vegas Fan Fest and the man who *rocked* that Minfilia cosplay.

F gender locks, seriously. Oh, and let mages wear heavy armor. Let people dress their characters however they want.

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Seriously, if we can go into battle naked or in bikinis, there's no reason to keep gear locked in general.

I'm just really irritated the sets aren't dyable. You'd think for a cash shop item that ought to be part of it.

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Originally Posted by Gaddes

I'm just really irritated the sets aren't dyable. You'd think for a cash shop item that ought to be part of it.

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Since the intention is to sell something that let's you cosplay as the original NPC, they probably did not consider that people would want to dye the gear items, since it immediately detracts from the link to the original character.

Ok with gender locked gear, in fact I welcome it.

This is not real life.

You're upset? Use a Fantasia and move on.

The bigotry in these threads is palpable.

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Originally Posted by giantslayer

Males wearing Minfilia's outfit would be the worst thing to happen to Final Fantasy since Kuja from FF9.

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Yeah, just like how men being able to dress as snowmen, reindeer, moogles, ghosts, pumpkin-heads, in subligar, as speedo-clad swimmers and in various states of undress is totally ruining this game.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

Ok with gender locked gear, in fact I welcome it.

This is not real life.

You're upset? Use a Fantasia and move on.

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How do other people's glamour choices affect you? You don't want to see it? It's not about you. It's not your business. Glamour options are there for fun, and for you to create the character you're happy with. You don't have any say in what other people glamour. If you don't want to wear gear that you feel is not for you, don't wear it! It's really quite easy.

If people wanna run around in their undies, they can run around in their undies. If people want to combine clashing colors in their glamour, they can combine clashing colors in their glamour. But people wanting to dress in clothes that society, and in this instance, SE, deems "gender locked"? That's just unacceptable.

You don't have the right to tell people what they can or cannot wear any more than they have the right to tell you what you can or cannot wear. Grow up.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

Ok with gender locked gear, in fact I welcome it.

This is not real life.

You're upset? Use a Fantasia and move on.

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In case you missed the memo, we don't actually want to be girls. We want to wear more items of clothing. There's a rather large difference between those two things.

Not to mention the fact that at the moment, female characters are favoured. You don't care because you play a female character, and for some reason prefer to make fun of people with an ill-considered dig dozens of others have already made instead of simply ignoring the clearly-titled threads about the topic. Ok. But what if they start favouring Lalafell and don't bother making gear for all of the races? What if the balance swings the other way and you have to pay real-life money to switch to playing as a guy to get some item you'd like which is needlessly locked? It's not fair, and people have every right to say so.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Since the intention is to sell something that let's you cosplay as the original NPC, they probably did not consider that people would want to dye the gear items, since it immediately detracts from the link to the original character.

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But that's not what they're generally for. We're not pretending to be Minfilia or Thancred, or whoever. We're just dressing in the same styles they wear. Just like when my character, Y'kayah, dresses like Snow from FFXIII, he isn't pretending to be Snow (a person he's never met or even heard of). He's just wearing a cool looking trenchcoat he was given by a visiting lady he fought alongside a few times.

Lorewise, the fact that Minfilia wears what she does indicates that the tailors of Eorzea make clothes in that style, and it shouldn't be too difficult for other people to get similar outfits. Gameplay-wise, when players see an outfit that looks cool, they'll often want similar outfits for themselves. It's about getting that cool looking style they saw on someone else, not about pretending to be that someone else. And if the "someone" whom they saw it on is an iconic NPC, then it really helps if they can dye it or combine it piecemeal with other gear, not only to achieve a look they like better, but also to be able to avoid looking too much like that iconic NPC it was designed from.

All of these sets should be unisex, dyable, and divided into separate chest/legs/hands/feet pieces. The fact that they aren't is just sloppy and lazy.

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Originally Posted by Magis

Actually no. All races except lalafell can use the hyur model scaled to a different height. This is why Miqo'te lost their butts cause they are actually using the hyur model scaled by the engine to fit the different dimensions.

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Ok, I stand corrected on the numbers, but the main point remains the same. If they could adapt it once to fit lalafell women, then they can adapt it once more to fit men of the other races (or possibly twice more if Roegadyn are a third model on the male side).

We must all stand together and unite as one!

Everybody now, let's all join hands and ascend ourselves in the light of our almighty paragon--

http://i.imgur.com/SgkyeCW.png

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Ok, I stand corrected on the numbers, but the main point remains the same. If they could adapt it once to fit lalafell women, then they can adapt it once more to fit men of the other races (or possibly twice more if Roegadyn are a third model on the male side).

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Yes they could have, but they didn't because that would cut into their profits. This is nothing to do with gender or equality or w.e, and all has to do with that sweet sweet green.

But hey, I was saying the cash shop was dumb since it's inception /shrug.

Men should wear men's stuff and women should wear women's. You want more men's stuff ask for it. You want to cross dress, do it in real life. The dev's made the decision clearly based on Japanese culture where alternative lifestyles are not a norm. They already made heavy concessions by turning marriage into eternal bonding (which I'm ok with) but the endless whining about this stuff is out of control. You're gay, you're proud, fine we get it. I don't superimpose my straightness on you so please stop typing to do that with your lifestyle to me. If this isn't about a lifestyle and actually about male options then ask for that outright instead this nonsense about men being able to wear Minfilia's outfit.

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Originally Posted by ckb

You're gay, you're proud, fine we get it. I don't superimpose my straightness on you so please stop typing to do that with your lifestyle to me. If this isn't about a lifestyle and actually about male options then ask for that outright instead this nonsense about men being able to wear Minfilia's outfit.

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By saying male characters cannot wear dresses, isn't that exactly what you're doing? Nobody is forcing a dress on you, or telling you that you cannot wear pants. You are in fact doing the opposite though.

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Originally Posted by ckb

Men should wear men's stuff and women should wear women's. You want more men's stuff ask for it. You want to cross dress, do it in real life. The dev's made the decision clearly based on Japanese culture where alternative lifestyles are not a norm. They already made heavy concessions by turning marriage into eternal bonding (which I'm ok with) but the endless whining about this stuff is out of control. You're gay, you're proud, fine we get it. I don't superimpose my straightness on you so please stop typing to do that with your lifestyle to me. If this isn't about a lifestyle and actually about male options then ask for that outright instead this nonsense about men being able to wear Minfilia's outfit.

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Sexuality has little to nothing to do with how people choose to dress. Stop trying to stir up the homophobes.

If it can be gender nuetral make it gender nuetral.

The people playing male characters were only upset at the idea of making a dress glamour, and then not making male glamour to go with it.

If you look at it and it can be gender nuetral it should be. Or let guy wear girly clothes I'm fine with that too. If you give females minfilia outfit, like someone said earlier maybe give Gaius costume to males in the same update so it feels equal. Not give 6 gender nuetral looking gear, and split it into 3 male and 3 female exclusives. That's bad IMO.

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Originally Posted by ckb

Men should wear men's stuff and women should wear women's. You want more men's stuff ask for it. You want to cross dress, do it in real life.

You're gay, you're proud, fine we get it. I don't superimpose my straightness on you so please stop typing to do that with your lifestyle to me.

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Whoa, whoa, whoa. What constitutes 'manly' and 'womanly' dress varies wildly across borders to the point that it's nonsensical, and the game already accommodates all kinds of 'alternative lifestyle' materials without a problem. Its inclusive sense of design is probably one of the things which attracts people to this game in the first place.

As has been said already, your post is the very definition of 'superimposing' your 'straightness' on others. You voluntarily came into this clearly-labelled thread without any understanding of the issues being discussed, indiscriminately decided you had everyone's real sexual orientation and gender figured out (how are any of these things relevant?) and then complained that we should all cross dress in real life (???) rather than ask to be able to give Square-Enix money. We just want to have some fun in a game.

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Originally Posted by ckb

the endless whining about this stuff is out of control. You're gay, you're proud, fine we get it.

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Actually, if I were a lesbian, maybe I wouldn't be as bothered by the fact that only females get sexy clothes in recent updates. Though even then, I'd likely expect other people to get the same options for males. Since I'm not a lesbian and am in fact straight as you seem to want everyone to be, it's my male characters whom I want sexy gear for.

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Originally Posted by ckb

If this isn't about a lifestyle and actually about male options then ask for that outright instead this nonsense about men being able to wear Minfilia's outfit.

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There's nothing particularly feminine about Minfilia's outfit except that Minfilia herself is a woman. She's wearing a short shirt and pants with a sort of half-skirt thing that hangs down behind her.

• The shirt shows off the bust of a large breasted woman like Minfilia, but without a woman's bustline would just be a shirt with some decorative accents that ends high enough to show off the wearer's abs. No reason for that not to look good on a guy. Macho guys with well toned abs may well like to show them off once in a while.
• The pants and boots are certainly masculine enough for anyone.
• The half skirt thing that hangs behind them isn't a style that either gender wears in the real world, but appears to be a commonly unisex style in Eorzea, so it doesn't seem to have a gender association in either direction.
• Westerners might regard the default pink color as feminine, though that color association isn't as common in Japan, and in any case, most of those who want it unisex also want it dyable.

So what exactly was your problem with that outfit on males?

The way they introduced the outfit isn't even worth buying it.

But sure, bring on the Manfilias....just make sure to pull your skirt OVER the butt crack please.....

After 8 pages I was expecting to see some photoshopped images of a male character in minfillia gear.

You have failed me forum users. :(

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Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

I was mostly...

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That's a fair response. Honestly I'm not really affected either way on the subject matter. We have items already that look like skirts on guys. My original post was more or less trying to figure out if the issue was gearing options for men or gender neutrality. I really only took a side for the sake of devils advocate. My only real issue was if it was about gender neutrality rather than male gearing options but I can agree to disagree on that. Anyhow, thanks for the clarification and I hope I cleared that up for you too.

Someone told me Papalimo outfit was there also, it is not:(
All i care about really, lol
And no offence but i do not ever want to see some guy dressed up in a Minfilia outfit

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Originally Posted by Serilda

It's interesting then that the staff have been responding

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I haven't changed stances I've been against a gender neutral agenda from the beginning. I attempted to discern the root cause while giving my own opinion on the outfits. The other person asked me what effect did it have on me? From that perspective it doesn't and I considered that a fair argument and point scored to him/her. I think you should reread what I've posted. I have been aggressive but my opinion remains the same. You can keep your tip. I only showed the hand I've been playing with from the beginning.

Is this Tumblr?

It's ok. I don't want to watch men wearing Minfilia outfit because it makes no sense.

It would be ok if they make the Hildibrand women costume because it's lore-wise and it makes sense.

What will you ask next? furry cosplays?

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

It's ok. I don't want to watch men wearing Minfilia outfit because it makes no sense.

It would be ok if they make the Hildibrand women costume because it's lore-wise and it makes sense.

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I'd like further explanation if you don't mind, as I wasn't aware of the in-game lore around Minfilia having a uniquely feminine outfit only women could wear. I recognise that this is all your personal opinion but if something has to be shown on a female in-game for it to be valid wear for female characters, there are quite a large number of comical glamour items which make no sense already (and don't get me started on mounts).

This topic was originally about a player with a female character wanting to use Urianger's outfit, which I don't think breaks any lore since it's a cowl. Likewise Minfilia's costume has already been discussed in detail and shown for what it is; boots (equippable by guys already), tights (equippable by guys already), an open skirt (equippable by guys already), gloves (equippable by guys already) and a crop top (equippable by guys already). Look, here's a picture I Googled showing someone achieving what is (coincidentally) a very similar look with existing in-game items.

I believe that the existence of that picture challenges all arguments about precedent and Eorzea's societal norms in one fell swoop, so perhaps we can get back to the core of the debate; characters of both genders are losing out with the current trend in gender locking gear.

Edit: There's also the male cosplayer who dressed as Minfilia at an official FFXIV event last year. Not only was it allowed, the staff loved it. More precedent.