Ifrits greatest weapon: Animation Lag

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Give us regional servers please, this issue will never be solved if someone is playing on a JP server.

Im sure people will whine up that they like to player on a international server but the problems are fairly clear, yes I know Japanese players suffer similar problems but they are just making a situation 10 times worse for overseas players.

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Hell no..
If i have to play with germans all day then i rather not play :D

people still confuse latency , low fps , and animation lock ...

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Originally Posted by Medura

The video is like that because he got a bad computer :/

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I just want to point out that you and people who share this idea are wrong. It has nothing to do with his computer. It has nothing to do with lag or FPS. The game is running smoothly with no noticeable chop. His character is clearly in a safe area for about three seconds and when the eruption goes off, he still takes the damage. Are we supposed to use Echo to see where the safe zones are before they spawn? This example and other similar problems are probably caused by server-client communication and/or the rate at which client position queries are performed.

It SE wants to design encounters that require coordinated movement, then they need to have the infrastructure in their engine and server code to support that. Otherwise, players are fighting against the engine and servers instead of the encounter.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Seriously get off my <snip>.. lol

Im allowed an opinion too !! and yes it would cut and sever ties but if you are happy to suffer from 1-3 secs lag then fine by me (play on a US or JP server), personally I think its a game killer, most of my LS are from America, Im from Europe so I know what I'm asking for, but we can all make new friends, its only a video game.

There is nothing to stop SE giving the option to play on local servers and international ones, many MMO's do this now.

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I am sure the devs are reading your incredibly well thought out and presented feedback, and have halted all things just to get onto your idea.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

It has nothing to do with his computer. It has nothing to do with lag or FPS.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

This example and other similar problems are probably caused by server-client communication and/or the rate at which client position queries are performed.

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So it isn't caused by lag, but it is caused by lag?

Lag meaning latency here of course, which refers to the communication time between client and server.

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

So it isn't caused by lag, but it is caused by lag?

Lag meaning latency here of course, which refers to the communication time between client and server.

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I probably could have been more concise. The lag has nothing to do with his computer or his connection speed.

Just to note, I don't have any apparent visual lag running XIV. My computer runs the game just fine.

As for the quality of the video, I blame AE, I think I exported as a MPEG4, I was in a rush to get to work. Probably YouTubes compression killed quality some too.

If you have not attempted the Hard Mode Ifrit you should not be commenting in this thread. The issue with animation lock is when you start an action your player is locked to its current position for a set amount of time while the animation fires, for archers this makes it 100% impossible to effectively dodge the plumes and erruptions while keeping DPS up since every single action an archer takes puts you in animation lock.

The fight imo was designed with animation lock and the need to space out your attacks and time your abilities on purpose. The fight is actually quit easy if you learn his rotation and learn when you can DD and when you wait for AutoAttack to keep going(to keep you out of animation lock).

My shell is at 35 kills now and we did 1 of them with 7ppl as 1 dc'd on entering. It just takes practice and is almost reliant on everyone having sentinel.

Agreed. This is the main reason my group has problems.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

I probably could have been more concise. The lag has nothing to do with his computer or his connection speed.

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I didn't say it was his connection speed, but how the client interprets the connection. His internet may be fine, and so may his computer be, but the issue lies in the time it takes for the server to make the decisions and then report them back to your computer for action!

It's petty to argue about what exactly the issue is, whether you think your 16-core triple-GPU computer with a dedicated OC-48 connection is immune from it or not. The fact is this problem doesn't happen in WoW, where this style of fight was popularized. There's no reason for it to have to happen in FF14. Also on top of lag issues and animation lock there's a separate issue involving the lava pool hitboxes. You can be outside the pool the entire time, thus not having to deal with lag at all, but still end up getting hit because the hitboxes aren't lining up quite right.

But everyone can agree that the fight is fun right?

Yes?

ok...then no need for this thread.

Most demanding group fight I've had since first dealing with Ultima from FFXI, this fight is exactly the type of encounter I hoped we'd see when ffxiv released.

A fight that forces you to constantly be on your toes, a fight where the boss moves around A LOT. A 5 phase fight with alternative strategies and ways to deal with his dmg. Arc doesn't take aoe but plume will rape you if your animation locked way outside his aoe range. This is not your avg tank and spank.

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Originally Posted by MrLion

But everyone can agree that the fight is fun right?

Yes?

ok...then no need for this thread.

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The fight is fun...but is can be very painful due to server issues....there are very frustrating moments when you die because you need to heal the tank and become stuck in animation. I understand this makes the game harder but i doubt it is intended.

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Originally Posted by ViciousValentine

The fight is fun...but is can be very painful due to server issues....there are very frustrating moments when you die because you need to heal the tank and become stuck in animation. I understand this makes the game harder but i doubt it is intended.

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I had this same mentality at first but there are lots of opportunities to heal w/o getting in trouble especially during dash phases.

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Originally Posted by tachikoma

I had this same mentality at first but there are lots of opportunities to heal w/o getting in trouble especially during dash phases.

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Yes and I agree with you, its all about placement and timing of heals. But i still dont think the devs made the fight to be so particular. I mean never know but I still think the randomless of getting hit effects you every now and again. Overall the fight is very much doable, im just guessing its easier for the Japanese with smaller ping.

It always makes me laugh how people try to defend the games clunky controls and lock out animations and say it adds to the difficulty, well duh.

Simple truth is they can't leave it as it is, especially if they want this game to be successful with the casual community.

Im sure Yoshi-p is aware of the situation and has plans in motion to solve this issue, its just guna take time.

that being said there is no getting away from the extra latency created by servers being on the other side of the world.

anyone else just really hate the concept of dodge mechanic fights in MMOs? I like them in my devil may cry's but not here...oh well I'll try the fight out eventually so I can get a pair of those ugly ass claws

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Originally Posted by Finuve

anyone else just really hate the concept of dodge mechanic fights in MMOs? I like them in my devil may cry's but not here...oh well I'll try the fight out eventually so I can get a pair of those ugly ass claws

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I like them when they work.

I never said that the server lag wasn't in the picture :/ buti myself have yet to experience it in that battle. Also, who says a person cant have multiple characters? ..

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Originally Posted by Medura

Technical knowledge is one of the things i got enough of thank you. Why would i lie? Just so idiots would say stuff like this? :o the animation lag comes because it takes more of your computer than it got. The latency will almost never come in instances. Or do you lag in toto-rak to maybe?

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U tell me u have enough technical knowledge (whatever u mean with "enough") and at the same time u arent even able to see the difference between lag, caused by a weak PC and the lag seen in the video?

He could play with a Supercomputer, it wont change anything if the lag is caused by server/latency.

Best demonstration of how terrible the 'client/server latency' is when someone in your party dies to an Ifrit attack and then a second later their corpse slides 10ft across the ground into a safe spot.

A lot of this might not even be latency, it could very well be how the game/client/server handle characters position. This gives me hope that it may be possible to resolve this issue.

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

Good lord no.

Your idea just cut ties with friends all over the world. You just broke up linkshells that have been established since FFXI release, and you just stopped pretty much the whole of europe from having any chance of playing (being as there are like 9 of us ingame).

Please return to WoW, all your posts so far seem to want this game to be it.

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I'm one of those 9! Eagerly awaiting a solution for this.

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Originally Posted by Finuve

anyone else just really hate the concept of dodge mechanic fights in MMOs? I like them in my devil may cry's but not here...oh well I'll try the fight out eventually so I can get a pair of those ugly ass claws

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I think dodge mechanics are great. Keeps you on your toes rather than just spamming abilities while watching netflix.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Give us regional servers please, this issue will never be solved if someone is playing on a JP server.

Im sure people will whine up that they like to player on a international server but the problems are fairly clear, yes I know Japanese players suffer similar problems but they are just making a situation 10 times worse for overseas players.

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This has ZERO to do with server placement. FFXI and FMO had zero problems with server latency between the regions (it's almost a nil difference in response times whether you played in Japan or the west.)

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Originally Posted by Blarp

I probably could have been more concise. The lag has nothing to do with his computer or his connection speed.

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You're talkin' about stuttering and sh*t rite?
'cause as I can say, Lag is related to client-server communication =)

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

This has ZERO to do with server placement. FFXI and FMO had zero problems with server latency between the regions (it's almost a nil difference in response times whether you played in Japan or the west.)

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FF11 can have horrendous latency issue, ask anyone camping an HNM how the Japanese normally get the claim first.

Very few of FF11's fights had you running around dodging charge attacks and pits of fire either, the only thing I can compare this to is like Fighting a boss in WoW with animation lock and 1000+ ms latency.

Fact remains electricy and sataletite communication can only travel so fast, the further from one location to the other the more latency, its not rocket science.

I did also mention in another post though that SE are optimsing the servers, enough with the whiteknight shit though its tiring.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

FF11 can have horrendous latency issue, ask anyone camping an HNM how the Japanese normally always got the claim first.

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I currently play from Japan -- I don't see this at all. Even back when the majority of the western world was still on dial-up there were equal claims, people were just slow and liked to use any excuse possible as to why they lost claim, even in the NA linkshell I was in 2 people had different stories:

Linkshellmate 1: "It spawned claim D:"
Linkshellmate 2: "Nope, it was up for at least 2 seconds."

Both from Texas. In all the time I've camped HNMs before they were popable, I've seen more people from the west claim than I did the Japanese in total, even before botting became "commonplace"

It's not the server placement, it's poorly optimized servers because it's painfully clear which game has the better response times between the two.

I dont know why people keep bring up "REGIONAL SERVERS PL0X" It's never going to happen, it's an international MMO and SE themselves have already said they are not going to do it. The servers will be optimized, just chill.

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

I dont know why people keep bring up "REGIONAL SERVERS PL0X" It's never going to happen, it's an international MMO and SE themselves have already said they are not going to do it. The servers will be optimized, just chill.

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I think the problem is that we've been mostly left with nothing to do but blindly hope that it's being worked on. We get very little in the way of assurance from them that it'll get better, and it's not like they can hold up a picture to show us their progress (if any). All you have to do is have someone set you to follow and run somewhere and see how far they lag behind you to know that it's taking a pretty long time for movements to register on the server.

They've stated countless times they're optimizing the server and engine. It's not a quick process at all.

Well isn't Yoshi going to be talking about the server in the next live video I thought?

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

Well isn't Yoshi going to be talking about the server in the next live video I thought?

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Duno, he mentioned he would talk more about the terrain redesign but I didn't hear anything about server stuff.

Also per your edit:

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I did also mention in another post though that SE are optimsing the servers, enough with the whiteknight shit though its tiring

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It's also tiring hearing something being called "white knighting" when no one agrees with your stance. It's not rocket science, much like it's obvious server placement isn't the problem here because their previous MMOs didn't have this problem. The only animation lock present in FFXI were spell casting on target while engaging or abilities that rooted you in place, i.e Chocobo Jig.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

They've stated countless times they're optimizing the server and engine. It's not a quick process at all.

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Um yes it is. Don't you know that all video games developers have a big red lever in the middle of their office marked Slow <---> Fast

God, don't you know ANYTHING about games design?


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Originally Posted by Vahzl

Um yes it is. Don't you know that all video games developers have a big red lever in the middle of their office marked Slow <---> Fast

God, don't you know ANYTHING about games design?


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Don't ever do this again.

I almost thought you were serious just because the random bold words make it stupidly hard to focus on what you actually typed.

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Originally Posted by Vahzl

Um yes it is. Don't you know that all video games developers have a big red lever in the middle of their office marked Slow <---> Fast

God, don't you know ANYTHING about games design?


Random words bolded for emphasis

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Yes and when yoshi turn the lever to fast, a bunch of monkies appear and start clanging cymbals in the devs ears til the content is complete!

come on people :-) Be nice to eachother.
There is enough war and trouble in the world already.
It's a game lets all be nice and have a great time gaming :-)

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Originally Posted by Keftenk

That infamous "animation lag" Yoshi-P likes to reference, here it is working against the player in the most important moments :( I'm sure everyone that has attempted the fight knows exactly what this feels like.

We'll get you soon enough Ifrit, lawls!

Ifrits Ultimate: Animation Lag

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Looks like an excuse for being bad in my eyes, by the obvious unorganized location everyone ran to.

~Champ

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Originally Posted by Scarface

Looks like an excuse for being bad in my eyes, by the obvious unorganized location everyone ran to.

~Champ

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/facepalm, did you even watch the video ?