Would Clemency by OP as insta cast?

More like upwards 40% of our mp per cast

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Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

Or why not keep clemency as is but make it uninterruptible?

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This alone would make it better.

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Originally Posted by Ralvenom

This alone would make it better.

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one of the big problems with just making it uninterruptible wouldnt affect at all is the fact that it forces an already low dps class to burn a gcd doing no damage and further clip into their next gcd. I'd rather see if get a much faster cast time than completely eliminate the minor amount of skill involved in making sure it doesn't interrupt(as a 1-2 second cast as opposed to 3). I also like the idea of making half or all its potency a hot, that would further distinguish it from other self heals, fit the whm-ish flavor of the plds casting side, and frankly hots are damn awesome and giving one to pld would really up their "defensive tank" appeal while reducing healer toestepping and not actually boosting the classes raw power much.

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Originally Posted by ArdorGrey

one of the big problems with just making it uninterruptible wouldnt affect at all is the fact that it forces an already low dps class to burn a gcd doing no damage and further clip into their next gcd.

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WRONG we arent a dps class, we are a tank class.

But gawd our dps as a tank class is terrible.

Of course the thread is about clemency, which using it is a definite dps loss.... unless you died.... which is a worse dps loss.

I don't mind the cast time being a GCD. It bothers me that it does clip into the next GCD and that it can be interrupted during those Oh s&*t moments. You can also make all of this work to your advantage too. Cast your clemency during the cast of the incoming tank buster - timed right your cast is not interrupted, you get smacked by tank buster, your clemency goes off and you are back at health.

Not disagreeing that the optimum use of clemency is ridiculously situational (see also the history of the use of Fracture in a Monk rotation), but the same can be said for Tempered Will, and Cover and to a lesser degree Divine Veil and Awareness. Paladin has so many situational skills anyway, you may as well embrace the quirkiness of the class. It truly would not surprise me if this was "working as intended".

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

It takes me 8 globals to regain enough MP from nothing to be able to recast Clemency.

Are you stupid? Clemency casts 2121 MP for me to cast.

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Oooo name calling. You're so cool.

Here's the thing though. What penalties does PLD take at low to no MP? You shouldn't need flash by the time you're out. You can't switch oaths provided you don't have the MP by the time the oath needs changed. Then there's clemency and stoneskin. At most you're out 2-3 skills that you can't cast when you'd want to, and all of them are situational. And uh oh, a whole 8 cds to be able to use your most expensive skill. Queue the violin.

Now let's talk about WHM. go OOM on a healer and lose pretty much all dps and healing ability because nearly everything costs mp. Assize can restore 10% every 90 seconds, SoS has a 2min cd. There is no comparison here.

Resource management is not identical between classes so you cant compare them with equal weight.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Okay I have thought about clemency "not stepping on healer's toes" that would go well with defensive tank.

One second cast time. Paladin and the target share 50% of healing for 10 seconds. It could also provide a small shield.

Now if you would see somebody dying you would pop it up and any heal that would heal you would also heal the target for 50% and any heal that would heal the target would heal also you for 50%. Basically the healer wouldn't risk to wipe the tank while saving somebody else.

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Not bad! Healers can still push the hot first if needed, healers still get the save, and being a hot makes the skill ever more diverse when compared to equilibrium. +1

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Originally Posted by AlexiIvaniskavich

WRONG we arent a dps class, we are a tank class.

But gawd our dps as a tank class is terrible.

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I never said pld was a "DPS". I said they were a low dps class. but congrats?

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Originally Posted by ArdorGrey

I never said pld was a "DPS". I said they were a low dps class. but congrats?

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*looks longingly at WAR and cries inside

A misunderstanding of your wording. More of a tongue in cheek comment about it, no personal jab intended :)

And thank you for the congrats, I have found a way to make a mostly unuseable paladin skill kind of useable. Now on to discuss the extreme value that Cover brings to every encounter. <end sarcasim font>

IMO though, if the MT damage wasn't so far out of the league compared to DRK, these quirky skills and a good tank who knows how to use them, would make the class stronger for current endgame material.

Bringing myself back to the topic -

I like the thought of reducing the cast time and finding a way to keep the cast from being interrupted (some or all of the time). Give it an instant cast and you may as well call it Equilibrium. If something along of the lines of Archaell's thought got implemented, what would stop you from using clemency every single time you had the mana for it? That setup would be perfect for anytime raid wide damage goes out. Sadly, this (c)would mean that paladins would be asked to actively participate in healing the party on a regular basis (assuming that the skill doesn't change to an oGCD type) and would be burning more GCD's on non-damage outputing skills, lowering the already meek dps paladins put out.

Gonna shill my brilliant idea again.

Royal Authority putting a buff on the paladin that lowers the next spell cast by 1-1.5s...makes Clemency better, and opens an avenue for adding new paladin spells in the future that we'd make viable through the spell cast reduction. Maybe get traits that let us stack the effect later on. Instant clemency after two runs through the rotation, or used to make, say a high damage spell named Banish, go from 5 seconds to 2 second cast time...

Would give paladins a unique "style" both to their stabby side and their casting side.

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Originally Posted by Arannon

Gonna shill my brilliant idea again.

Royal Authority putting a buff on the paladin that lowers the next spell cast by 1-1.5s...makes Clemency better, and opens an avenue for adding new paladin spells in the future that we'd make viable through the spell cast reduction. Maybe get traits that let us stack the effect later on. Instant clemency after two runs through the rotation, or used to make, say a high damage spell named Banish, go from 5 seconds to 2 second cast time...

Would give paladins a unique "style" both to their stabby side and their casting side.

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I can dig it.

In Shield Oath, Clemency isn't interrupted unless Knock-backed (insert Tempered Will) or Stunned/Slept/Silenced/etc and provides a 20% incoming Damage Reduction while casting.

In Sword Oath, Clemency works as is but also restores 300 TP to the PLD.

?

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Originally Posted by rawker

More like upwards 40% of our mp per cast

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No, I can get three casts before oom.

Maybe because I'm moon keeper?

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Originally Posted by winsock

Oooo name calling. You're so cool.

Here's the thing though. What penalties does PLD take at low to no MP?

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There's no name calling, its asking a question. If I was name calling, it wouldn't have been in the form of a question.

When you play PLD, come back to me. You don't, I looked.

I play all three healers, Paladin, bard, ninja and summoner.

I know how WHM works, thanks.

What do I lose in those 8 globals?

A shit ton of dps and threat because Riot Blade hits like a girl and has no hate mod.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

No, I can get three casts before oom.

Maybe because I'm moon keeper?

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Well.. If we count 2-3 ticks of natural MP recovery and a single Riot Blade combo, yes, I can fit in 3 before I go OOM.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

snip

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Oh no! you must be so shaking having to lose a whole 2 - 3 skills when OOM! *tear

It must have been such a terrifying experience. I can't even remember the last time a group wiped because the PLD went OOM. It must be a repressed memory!

Joking aside. If you lose enmity its your fault. U can still use skills to keep it and can still function as a tank with no MP.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Riot Blade hits like a girl

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strong independent women are after you now

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

strong independent women are after you now

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rofl.. no seriously. i don't mean to offend.

It sounds like there are a few ways they could make clemency more useful. Granted, I have not actually played a Paladin at 60 yet, however I have extensive experience with tanking at high level in other mmos.

A few ideas from other games that could work well here.

1. It definitely sounds like the cast time needs to be lowered to 2.0 seconds, and made non interruptable, or at least harder to interrupt
2. A group heal with half the potency is another option
3. A heal over time could also be interesting
4. Finally, in one MMO I played called Vanguard, one of the healer classes had a "reactive" heal, that they could cast on someone, and it started with 3 stacks. Each time the person takes dmg, the reactive heal triggers, but at a fairly low potency. So perhaps in FFXIV, it could heal for 1500ish each time someone gets hit, up to 3 times. Interesting, helpful, but by no means game breaking, since you'd still only be able to use it twice with one mana bar.

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

strong independent women are after you now

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Considering I'm a woman I'm fully entitled to make the comment :P

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Considering I'm a woman I'm fully entitled to make the comment :P

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http://img-comment-fun.9cache.com/me...51_700wa_0.gif

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

http://img-comment-fun.9cache.com/me...51_700wa_0.gif

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R O F L ! ! !

Good one.