Ideas for Paladin Skill Changes

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Originally Posted by Tam_Hawkins

I could be wrong but i believe all tanks wearing full vit and ignoring str is what se wants.

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Then they need to lower the health on all bosses.

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Originally Posted by Tam_Hawkins

I could be wrong but i believe all tanks wearing full vit and ignoring str is what se wants.

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The amount of DPS required to clear content seems to suggest otherwise. Especially with them saying that they don't want Healers DPSing and taking away their accuracy(and even nerfing the capability of cleric stance dancing)

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Originally Posted by Cynric

The amount of DPS required to clear content seems to suggest otherwise.

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Really though this could be the result of necessity more than desired design. I'm sure they've known about tanks pushing DPS since 2.x and if they didn't put in strict DPS checks it'd be a faceroll.

It might be the tank DPS meta we talk about feels more player enforced than Developer. But they can't ignore it though, and have to go with the flow. Another reason I don't think this damage calculations adjustment is all sunshine and rainbows

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

Really though this could be the result of necessity more than desired design. I'm sure they've known about tanks pushing DPS since 2.x and if they didn't put in strict DPS checks it'd be a faceroll.

It might be the tank DPS meta we talk about feels more player enforced than Developer. But they can't ignore it though, and have to go with the flow. Another reason I don't think this damage calculations adjustment is all sunshine and rainbows

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To be fair they could have made a heavier health check from the get go. Something somewhere got underestimated, or overestimated.

I wonder which Tank's DPS they accounted for.. It sure wasn't Paladin MTing...

While I agree that the tank damage thing could be bad or good. I don't think Dev's had zero control in this outcome.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

I don't think Dev's had zero control in this outcome.

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Considering that Cure's don't scale at the same rate as HP does it would eventually come to the current conclusion anyways, simply based on healers inability to maintain a tanks hp up past a certain point. Otherwise, unless there's some type or major tankbuster that requires hp based on the amount of pure damage it does, excessive hp becomes a pointless measure in the grand scheme of things.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

The amount of DPS required to clear content seems to suggest otherwise. Especially with them saying that they don't want Healers DPSing and taking away their accuracy(and even nerfing the capability of cleric stance dancing)

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They never said "they don't want healers dpsing" what they said was that the fights were not tuned with healers dps in mind. Huge difference. Also if they don't want healers dpsing then why are they giving them dps moves and moves specifically designed to allow for healing dps combinations?

The whole "they don't want healers dpsing" has been debunked several times over. Beyond this they have confirmed that accuracy will be added to the healer geaer later in the patch cycles just like they did in ARR.

Also they tuned these fights for a higher Ilvl then normal, likely 200 - 210 ilvls. The only reason tank and healer dps became a necessity was for teams who wished to clear the content under geared on the bleeding edge when it was first release. Now that the average ilvl for savage players is almost 20 - 30 levels higher its become much less of a necessity unless your dps are incompetent.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Also they tuned these fights for a higher Ilvl then normal, likely 200 - 210 ilvls. The only reason tank and healer dps became a necessity was for teams who wished to clear the content under geared on the bleeding edge when it was first release. Now that the average ilvl for savage players is almost 20 - 30 levels higher its become much less of a necessity unless your dps are incompetent.

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So much this.

Not to say that your healers should have no DPS, but the importance of their damage is lessening with better gear and ilevels coming around.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

They never said "they don't want healers dpsing" what they said was that the fights were not tuned with healers dps in mind. Huge difference. Also if they don't want healers dpsing then why are they giving them dps moves and moves specifically designed to allow for healing dps combinations?

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They have said that healer's dpsing during light and full party content was unplanned. Cleric Stance and DpS abilities were intended to make doing solo content less painful for healers. In several other MMOs healers could not even level without partying with either a Tank or DpS.

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The whole "they don't want healers dpsing" has been debunked several times over. Beyond this they have confirmed that accuracy will be added to the healer geaer later in the patch cycles just like they did in ARR.

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I have not heard anything about healers getting accuracy added in 3.X. Do you have a link?

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

They never said "they don't want healers dpsing" what they said was that the fights were not tuned with healers dps in mind. Huge difference. Also if they don't want healers dpsing then why are they giving them dps moves and moves specifically designed to allow for healing dps combinations?

The whole "they don't want healers dpsing" has been debunked several times over. Beyond this they have confirmed that accuracy will be added to the healer geaer later in the patch cycles just like they did in ARR.

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How would a healer solo open world content without any form of DPS? They'd be forced to group to get through quests. That's why they have DPS abilities. They've said this before.

They've removed accuracy from healer gear, nerfed heals like Lustrate while in Cleric stance and moved way from that design decision. As far as them saying they didn't want them to DPS I believe it was said in a Live letter. Could be wrong though.

They gave SCH and WHM new dps abilities in Heavensward (WHM even got an additional dps ability at max level in ARR). That is a pretty clear sign that they want to healers to have the option to dps in endgame content (or that they don't know what they are doing).

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Originally Posted by Alphras

They gave SCH and WHM new dps abilities in Heavensward (WHM even got an additional dps ability at max level in ARR). That is a pretty clear sign that they want to healers to have the option to dps in endgame content (or that they don't know what they are doing).

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The DpS abilities Scholars and White Mages get in HW look to be there more to prevent them from falling to far behind on the damage curve in Solo content.

Also, WHM's final dps abilities in ARR were at 45 and 46 and not 50.

Ah right holy was at 45.

So 2 out of the 5 HW WHM skills are for solo content only (which is only leveling really)? Plus Assize which deals 300 potency aoe damage while healing?

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Originally Posted by Alphras

Ah right holy was at 45.

So 2 out of the 5 HW WHM skills are for solo content only (which is only leveling really)? Plus Assize which deals 300 potency aoe damage while healing?

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Well Holy was nerfed pretty hard but they got a 50 potency AoE(Aero III) plus assize which is on a pretty long CD(90s)

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Originally Posted by Alphras

Ah right holy was at 45.

So 2 out of the 5 HW WHM skills are for solo content only (which is only leveling really)? Plus Assize which deals 300 potency aoe damage while healing?

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And the Story quest, some healers had a huge Problem with the Trial were you have to fight for Tataru and without finishing the Story you won't be able to heal any of the engame dungeons and raids as you will never get that far.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

They gave SCH and WHM new dps abilities in Heavensward (WHM even got an additional dps ability at max level in ARR). That is a pretty clear sign that they want to healers to have the option to dps in endgame content (or that they don't know what they are doing).

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SCH has new abilities?

I didn't know, never used any past 50.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

SCH has new abilities?

I didn't know, never used any past 50.

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Are you trolling ? SCH got amazing new abilities

Honestly give flash good AoE damage for PLD only and increase emnity.

I hate to see one ability look like another, but shield bash should really be set up like low blow. It may only be a problem with me, but I constantly miss stuns because of the gc.

Honestly give flash good AoE damage for PLD only and increase emnity.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

SCH has new abilities?

I didn't know, never used any past 50.

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Please don't play scholar anymore.

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Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

I hate to see one ability look like another, but shield bash should really be set up like low blow. It may only be a problem with me, but I constantly miss stuns because of the gc.

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I disagree. The ability to chain stun and lock something down for 10 seconds is an advantage of the pld. Almost every other job has an ogcd stun that you can plan around for random stuns and then use pld for a chain stun situation.

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Originally Posted by Rocond

I disagree. The ability to chain stun and lock something down for 10 seconds is an advantage of the pld. Almost every other job has an ogcd stun that you can plan around for random stuns and then use pld for a chain stun situation.

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Was pretty much required for the MirrorKnights back in T5, too bad we don't have situations where chain stunning is required anymore.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

Was pretty much required for the MirrorKnights back in T5, too bad we don't have situations where chain stunning is required anymore.

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I use it in A3S on one of the hands. Sure, it's probably not required, but that's how we do it. Regardless, my point is there are so many ogcd stun options to go around that keeping the one chain stun option in the game is a good thing.

Something that I could imagine for PLD's Clemency & Tempered Will that would create a CD combination that PLD's could add to their tank buster rotation.

Clemency
Added Effect when in Tempered Will: Doubled Cast Time, No Interrupt (unless CC'd [excluding knockback, since TW prevents that]) 20% Damage Reduction while casting.

Would make Tempered Will > Clemency a 6 second 20% damage reduction CD with an HP restore at the tail end. Tempered Will has a 2min or higher cooldown doesn't it? Would serve as a Defensive CD.