So, the Final Fantasy XI dev team?

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Originally Posted by SakuraMidori

Righttttttttt since every mmo out has a update every 2 or 3 months? pfffffff ill have fun high five flip and you will be back like all the others

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I do agree that Yoshida's team releases patches incredibly fast (well, other than 3.1), and they're doing a commendable job, but 2-3 months? At this point you're doing nothing but misleading people, and for what reason, there aren't any new players to attract. It's an average for 3.5-4 months, unless of course you include patches like 2.55, 3.05, 3.07 or what have you in which case plenty of other MMOs do it. The difference between 2 and 4 months is substantial.

As for those people saying that they never promised a release date and they're meeting deadlines, just not the ones we wanted. Yes, that is the case but it's also a weak argument and makes you come off as a SE apologist. Everyone knows the majority will quit if this becomes the standard, and as such it's a good thing that won't happen. Just say what the development team is saying, and that's that they needed a break. 3.1 is late, period. People taking this shit is how you gradually get WoW's awful, awful patch schedules. Do you really want that? No? Then don't act like the development team are your buddies and and come up with whatever thing to say to defend them.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

So if you go into a restaurant (fast food or not), and you are informed that due to understaffing (for example) your order will take longer than usual, you'll threaten them with never coming back again if your food is ever "late" again, saying that since you're a paying customer you're entitled to getting your food on time -- despite them warning you that it will take longer than usual.

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This is not only a bad analogy that doesn't fit the current problem with FFXIV's content delay, but it is also putting words in my mouth that I didn't say. I never said to threaten SE with "never coming back." That's your words, not mine, so I won't even entertain or validate that argument. Unsubbing for a month or more during a content lull because the dev team dropped the ball? Justifiable for sure. A paying customer always has the option to stop paying if the service doesn't meet his expectations, but that's a fact of business, not an impassioned argument on my part.

As for your analogy, no money has been paid up front before being told about the delay in service. At that point, I'm not a customer; I'm a potential customer. If I don't like the service, I can get up and leave. The difference with FFXIV is that I've already paid for the service, and then the service drops in quality via delays. That makes all the difference in the world.

It would be like if I was paying for an HBO Go subscription and they announce that nothing new will be uploaded in November. That's a drop in the quality in service. Is the old stuff still available? You bet. Is part of what I'm paying for not arriving on time? Yes.

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

I sit down in a restaurant and order a steak. 2 hours later it still hasn't arrived. I ask the waiter what's going on and he replies "Our chef staff has worked really hard today, and they needed a break." I'm not being entitled, nor do I lack compassion, when I get up and walk out.

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The difference there being that they didn't tell you until after you had already waited a long time. With this patch, they did say at the release of HW that 3.1 would not be released 3 months after HW - so basically at the time we "ordered" 3.1. And they did provide 'snacks' while we waited (3.05 etc).

I agree that it's annoying to wait, and I want 3.1 to be here already, but that doesn't mean I cannot have compassion with delays.

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Originally Posted by zosia

The cash shop would like to have a word with you. Marriages, Dyes, Minions, Retainers, and much more show what SE thinks of us. They stick exclusive content/items in the cash shop. SE also refuses to solve the growing inventory issue other than recommending that we spend more money on their game.

They already treat us like a suckling pig, you are being willfully ignorant if you think otherwise.

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Partly yes. But they do still try to listen to feedback. (If you read the part of my post that you bolded, you'll probably note the word "only". I'm not saying they're not seeing us in any way as a source of income/revenue, but that's not all we are to them, nor is it in our best interest for them to take that stance -- which was the main part of my argument.) =)

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

This is not only a bad analogy that doesn't fit the current problem with FFXIV's content delay, but it is also putting words in my mouth that I didn't say. I never said to threaten SE with "never coming back." That's your words, not mine, so I won't even entertain or validate that argument.

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I apologize for the 'threaten not to come back' -- I confused your posts with Akuryu's comment about "If we have to wait 5 months for 3.2, I don't care what excuse they come up with, because I won't be playing anymore", and that was entirely my fault.

But I still think that it's a better analogy than the HBO one (not a perfect one, maybe, but a better one), since the difference between releasing something every month and then skipping one month is greater than releasing large patches every 3-4 months, and then extending it to 4-5 months (late June to early November -- if 3.1 comes out around 20th of November it'd be five months, unless my math is off).
So instead of waiting 30-40 minutes for your food, you'd have to wait all of 40-50 minutes instead. Or maybe HBO Go go out at the start of the month, saying, "Our usual release of New Stuff at the end of this month will be delayed about a week due to [some reason relating to staff shortage]". Is it ideal? No. Is it annoying for the customers? Yes. Is it entirely outrageous? Not in my opinion.

Yes, there's a difference in the whole 'pay for one thing' and 'subscription', I'll admit that, but I also don't think that the time difference is that much of a deal. This, of course, is my personal opinion. The analogy was also coloured by the above statement by Akuryu which rubbed me the wrong way ^^;

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

There is a patch cycle in this game. Everyone knows it, and everyone knows this one is late. By your logic 3.1 could come out May 2021 and still be "on time".

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Just go. You are like a whiny spouse pushing for divorce but also wants alimony for the kids you made with the game.

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

A car accident would be completely out of my control. Telling the entire staff to take a month off isn't.

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The point of that was to tell him that something unexpected happend and his boss was being unreasonable due to being a very impatient person. But it looks like you failed to see that point. Not much i can help you with there.

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There are businesses all across the world filled with people working hard. People take vacations, but the work doesn't stop. You don't shut down production and send everyone home. Maybe a couple of guys are off this week. Everyone else works around their absence. When they come back a couple more can take off. You work out a schedule so people can get their time off, while minimizing the effect on production. That's how it works in the real world.

I sit down in a restaurant and order a steak. 2 hours later it still hasn't arrived. I ask the waiter what's going on and he replies "Our chef staff has worked really hard today, and they needed a break." I'm not being entitled, nor do I lack compassion, when I get up and walk out.

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Except in this case you were already warned what would happen, if the chef told you it would be 2 hours late what you just said would have actually made sense.

No matter how hard you try, you and any other entitled kids aren't any more special then anyone else playing this game, You're free to cancel your sub if waiting is unbearable. but for actual decent humans who understand things happen, they are ok with it. Get over it.

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Except in this case you were already warned what would happen, if the chef told you it would be 2 hours late what you just said would have actually made sense.

No matter how hard you try, you and any other entitled kids aren't any more special then anyone else playing this game, You're free to cancel your sub if waiting is unbearable. but for actual decent humans who understand things happen, they are ok with it. Get over it.

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Does it matter if we were warned or not? It was a rookie mistake. People take vacations all the time without causing their company or project to freeze. Let's hope they start investing in this game enough to have staff for coverage.

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Originally Posted by zosia

Does it matter if we were warned or not? It was a rookie mistake. People take vacations all the time without causing their company to freeze. Let's hope they start investing in this game enough to have staff for coverage.

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It matters enough that some people find it unacceptable. Good thing, however is that the company isn't going to freeze or even suffer a dent in customers because a few entitled kids didn't get their way, so it's not a big worry in the end.

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Originally Posted by KaedrianLiang

Just go. You are like a whiny spouse pushing for divorce but also wants alimony for the kids you made with the game.

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I wonder if Square feels that way. It's very easy for you to encourage paying customers to leave. Your job doesn't depend upon it.

A lot of people have quit. If 3.2 takes 5 months, a lot more will. If driving people away from your massively multiplayer online game is the goal... mission accomplished I guess?

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

It matters enough that some people find it unacceptable. Good thing, however is that the company isn't going to freeze or even suffer a dent in customers because a few entitled kids didn't get their way, so it's not a big worry in the end.

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I love the world you are living in where paying customers become entitled children when they are not satisfied with the service. Found the EA employee.

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Originally Posted by zosia

I love the world you are living in where paying customers become entitled children. Found the EA employee.

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and i love the world where you do not understand words you use, or even read correctly, but i'm not about to try teach you the difference, as i'm pretty sure you have issues reading words you do not understand, Move along.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

It matters enough that some people find it unacceptable. Good thing, however is that the company isn't going to freeze or even suffer a dent in customers because a few entitled kids didn't get their way, so it's not a big worry in the end.

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You sound like someone who is either very young, or doesn't understand how business works.

They've already suffered a dent in customers. If you think there are as many people playing now as there were 3 months ago, you really don't live in the real world.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Oh god, please no. There is literally not ONE thing XI had that I wish would be in XIV. More staff is nice for faster patches, sure, but please leave any outdated suggestions out of my game.

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This is not "your" game. lol And what do you define "outdated" in game design? All of it is subjective. The FFXI hate is silly. Regardless if you want it or not, the playerbase has spoken and those things you call outdated are things that a lot of players are asking for to spice up the game.

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

You sound like someone who is either very young, or doesn't understand how business works.

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My thoughts exactly for you, i would be shocked if you were even past age 11.

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They've already suffered a dent in customers. If you think there are as many people playing now as there were 3 months ago, you really don't live in the real world.

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They suffer dents when content takes a while to come out, Much like 2.0 it took about 4 months before this game got it's 1st patch and people unsubbed till then, people get bored of content, stop playing, this is how MMOs work, It looks like it is you who does not understand how this works. Of course there was more people 3 months ago, HW was a brand new expansion, and everything was fresh content for people to do.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

and i love the world where you do not understand words you use, or even read correctly, but i'm not about to try teach you the difference, as i'm pretty sure you have issues reading words you do not understand, Move along.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

attack the idea, not the person. It will make you seem smarter if you're gonna ride that high horse.

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

This is not "your" game. lol And what do you define "outdated" in game design? All of it is subjective. The FFXI hate is silly. Regardless if you want it or not, the playerbase has spoken and those things you call outdated are things that a lot of players are asking for to spice up the game.

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People who played both games already know there is some overlap in game design. The job system is probably the biggest feature in common with both MMO's. People are just ignorant to the fact that ff11 had some great features that could do well in this game.

I would love love love me some BCNMs!

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

Late is late, regardless of the excuse. If we have to wait 5 months for 3.2, I don't care what excuse they come up with, because I won't be playing anymore. Frankly, I doubt I'll be the only one.

If the dev team cannot work around a vacation schedule without delaying content over a month, then they either need more staff or better management (or both). If I ever walked into a meeting with a customer and told them I can't deliver on time because we all took a vacation, I'd be fired on the spot.

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You have no idea how spoiled you sound.

Go play any other popular MMO and go 6+ months between patches. Go raid the same instance for 14 months.

Then come back to me and whine about FFXIV and its patch schedule.

Just because XI isn't receiving anymore updates doesn't mean it's done. There's the maintenance for at least another half a year or more, then there's the mobile port for the game's life after MMO-hood (though if that will also be an MMO isn't known on this side of the Pacific, not by me at the least). Chances are good that the the team, while downsized, will still be working on XI for years to come.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

My thoughts exactly for you, i would be shocked if you were even past age 11.



They suffer dents when content takes a while to come out, Much like 2.0 it took about 4 months before this game got it's 1st patch and people unsubbed till then, people get bored of content, this is how MMOs works. It looks like it is you who does not understand how this works.

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You've contradicted your previous post in less than 20 minutes.

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Good thing, however is that the company isn't going to freeze or even suffer a dent in customers...

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They suffer dents when content takes a while to come out...

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And please, could you stop with the remarks about people's age? It comes off as immature.

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Originally Posted by zosia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

attack the idea, not the person. It will make you seem smarter if you're gonna ride that high horse.

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The idea isn't the problem, the person spewing it is just trying to sound smarter then they actually are. You should probably take your own advice.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

You've contradicted your previous post in less than 20 minutes.





And please, could you stop with the remarks about people's age? It comes off as immature.

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The thing is i didn't as this game is still being played by many people. if you honestly think people don't quit for their own reasons other then only what you see. Then you are beyond Help, nice try tho. The dent remark was meant to be in quotations the 1st time since he used that word as if this game will decline in customers because of what he didn't approve of.

If the XI team were to join and help out with XIV, that'd be great. All the power to them, I'd hope the increase in manpower and resources increases the game's quality. If not? Well, I've enjoyed the game thus far, and am enjoying Tales of Zestiria while I wait for 3.1.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

The idea isn't the problem, the person spewing it is just trying to sound smarter then they actually are. You should probably take your own advice.

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Even if that's the case, acting like a pompous brat is doing you no better. Slinging ad hominem attacks left and right while providing absolutely no substance other than "hurr durr brat entitlement immature hurr durr" is a sign of a poor argument.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

"nice try though"?

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It's the internet, so, naturally everyone is convinced that they just demolished the entire argument that was responded to. It's a snide way to pat yourself on the back while insinuating you won some debate points or something. I certainly have been guilty of it from time to time, I honestly think we probably all are. I have seen it popping up more and more.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

The thing is i didn't as this game is still being played by many people. if you honestly think people don't quit for their own reasons other then only what you see. Then you are beyond Help, nice try tho.

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You claimed players wouldn't quit because a few people claimed that delayed content is a bad thing, then later stated that they do in fact quit due to content being delayed. Not once did you mention any other reason until this post, but yeah, people do leave due to other reasons and that happens whether content came out an after before they left or not. There is no denying that the game is far less active than it used to be though in between patches.

What's with people on here and ending their posts with "nice try though"?

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Originally Posted by zosia

Even if that's the case, acting like a pompous brat is doing you no better. Slinging ad hominem attacks left and right while providing absolutely no substance other than "hurr durr brat entitlement immature hurr durr" is a sign of a poor argument.

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And that gives you the right to act like one? Looking up hypocrite will also help you. don't try to call out things when you your self are guilty of it. sometimes reality and trying to bring someone back to it hurts to realize.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

You claimed players wouldn't quit because a few people claimed that delayed content is a bad thing, then later stated that they do in fact quit due to content being delayed. Not once did you mention any other reason until this post, but yeah, people do leave due to other reasons and that happens whether content came out an after before they left or not. There is no denying that the game is far less active than it used to be though in between patches.

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You don't need a reason to know why people quit games. did i really have to explain this? seriously? i'm not going in circles. i don't know who you are trying to look cool for but you should quit now.

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What's with people on here and ending their posts with "nice try though"?

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It's a means of someone like you trying hard to make an image and then failing when what you tried to say did not apply. or you simply misunderstood it due to failing to understand. i guess i had to explain that one as well? really now. no wonder these forums are avoided.

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I'm very aware of what it means, it's just that it blatantly makes you come off as condescending and rather hostile.

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The hostility i am receiving has to warrent it. This only started when i tried to explain to someone that just because patches do not come out as planned didn't mean he had to be unreasonble and acted like he deserved it because he was a "paying customer" but then it turned into attack back and forth posts. you chiming in with an uneeded post also didn't help, but this actually is a waste of time, as i should know by now this forum is hostile by nature.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

It's a means of someone like you trying hard to make an image and then failing when what you tried to say did not apply. or you simply misunderstood it due to failing to understand. i guess i had to explain that one as well? really now. no wonder these forums are avoided

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I'm very aware of what it means, it's just that it blatantly makes you come off as condescending and rather hostile.

Bloody hell, we get it! Shoes were eaten! Can we move on, maybe?

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

And that gives you the right to act like one? Looking up hypocrite will also help you. don't try to call out things when you your self are guilty of it. sometimes reality and trying to bring someone back to it hurts to realize.You don't need a reason to know why people quit games. did i really have to explain this? seriously? i'm not going in circles. i don't know who you are trying to look cool for but you should quit now.

It's a means of someone like you trying hard to make an image and then failing when what you tried to say did not apply. or you simply misunderstood it due to failing to understand. i guess i had to explain that one as well? really now. no wonder these forums are avoided

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You were the hostile person 1st broski. Also, you missed my point entirely so let me reiterate it for you as explicitly as possible so you can understand.

You are trying to take the high ground in addition to being overtly hostile and calling people unnecessary names. I am not trying to take some high ground here, so I don't mind calling you bratty. If you're gonna try to take some reasoned moral high ground, then act the part.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

The hostility i am receiving has to warrent it. This only started when i tried to explain to someone that just because patches do not come out as planned didn't mean he had to be unreasonble and acted like he deserved it because he was a "paying customer" but then it turned into attack back and forth posts. you chiming in with an uneeded post also didn't help, but this actually is a waste of time, as i should know by now this forum is hostile by nature.

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So, this was the 1st reply you made and you think this constitutes an explanation?

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

Perhaps you should actually learn some compassion, The dev teams are humans, just like we all are, mistakes happen and sometimes things do not come out on time or work out as planned. if you are off to work and get in a car accident and your boss says "oh? to bad, you should have been here, you're fired" you won't be so happy about that will you, that entitled attitude is one of the reasons they don't take NA side seriously

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Your initial reply had very little explanation, it was just full of subjective contrived anecdotes. Then you topped it off with a nice insulting entitlement cherry and expected to have a positive reception? Come at people with respect if you want it in return.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Bloody hell, we get it! Shoes were eaten! Can we move on, maybe?

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Can't really upvote this enough.

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Originally Posted by zosia

You were the hostile person 1st broski. Also, you missed my point entirely so let me reiterate it for you as explicityly as possible so you can understand.

You are trying to take the high ground in addition to being overtly hostile and calling people unnecessary names. I am not trying to take some high ground here, so I don't mind calling you bratty. If you're gonna try to take some reasoned moral high ground, then act like it.

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That is incorrect, but this has gone on long enough. You may think whatever you like. and contradict your self as much as you like. Moving on.

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

Late is late, regardless of the excuse. If we have to wait 5 months for 3.2, I don't care what excuse they come up with, because I won't be playing anymore. Frankly, I doubt I'll be the only one.

If the dev team cannot work around a vacation schedule without delaying content over a month, then they either need more staff or better management (or both). If I ever walked into a meeting with a customer and told them I can't deliver on time because we all took a vacation, I'd be fired on the spot.

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Exactly. I don't be-grudge anyone a vacation. A business needs to still run, and vacations need to be staggered and this is obviously a management/administration issue. The whole joint can't just up and hit Tahiti for a month. No business can do that or they're outta business.

I'm the biggest fan girl/white knight you'll ever meet. But when they said 3.1 is months late because "we took a vacation"... I just feel like whether it's true or not, it was a damn stupid thing to say. I guess they know that the majority of the people here were just going to say "awesome you guys so deserve that". I agree! They do. But you can't shut the place down. No on does that!

ON TOPIC: Of course I'd love Yoshi's team to have more help and XI folks would be amazing.

Can we at least agree that having more people on the team wouldn't hurt? Since the get-go, they've struggled to not only get patches out on time, but also to add planned content for said patches. I feel there's always something that gets pushed back.

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Originally Posted by Mug

Can we at least agree that having more people on the team wouldn't hurt? Since the get-go, they've struggled to not only get patches out on time, but also to add planned content for said patches. I feel there's always something that gets pushed back.

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I agree fully; more people at this point wouldn't hurt, and who knows what all they'd be able to accomplish?

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

I sit down in a restaurant and order a steak. 2 hours later it still hasn't arrived. I ask the waiter what's going on and he replies "Our chef staff has worked really hard today, and they needed a break." I'm not being entitled, nor do I lack compassion, when I get up and walk out.

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Actually that's a bad analogy given the size of 3.1. A better one would be

"I sit down in a restaurant and order a steak. The steak arrives 5 minutes later than it normally does. I ask the waiter what's going on and he replies "We have decided to upgrade from our usual NY strip steak to filet mignon for the same price, however, it takes slightly more preperation."

I'm all for more people, but there is such a thing as 'too many cooks in the kitchen'. As for delays I don't see any problems with them. A delay doesn't 'just happen', there's always a reason. Delays mean the developer cares about the quality of their product, something the AAA industry seems to have forgotten to do. Stress and overwork can also easily lead to forced delays, too, with bugs potentially making it past QA and needing maintenances to fix. People gripe enough about maintenances that accompany such things as updates and server transfers... I really don't understand all the rage over missed deadlines and pushed back dates, it's like noone cares about quality anymore.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

I'm all for more people, but there is such a thing as 'too many cooks in the kitchen'.

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Absolutely; not really much more I can add to that.

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

but they never gave you a time for 3.1 to begin with. right after the expansion came out, they said that we will have to wait a bit longer than usual till the next big patch

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One of the live letters he did hint at 4 months (idk if he meant 4 months patch cycles instead of 3 or 4 months before 3.1). So to me personally they are only a month late :P Guess it does kinda line up with the month delay for HW too, could just be a coincidence. Ive played MMOs that constantly delivered stuff in half year cycles at best and then dragged on for over a year without content between xpacs so a month delay is child's play to me hehe.

Still i can see how it might be disconcerting for someone whose first MMO is ff 14, specially after being accustomed to a 3 month patch cycle.

on point: I would personally like to see the overall dev team for ff 14 get a boost in personnel if its needed, and who better than ff 11 vets! =D I do say needed though cuz some MMOs have recieved increased development teams and been hindered by it instead by their own account.

PS. pls rate my "subtlety" from one to five. kthx :)

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Originally Posted by zosia

The cash shop would like to have a word with you. Marriages, Dyes, Minions, Retainers, and much more show what SE thinks of us.

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Please keep your list correct.
In the cash shop they sell items that get mailed with the moogle mail to a single specific character.
Extra retainers is an account service you pay monthly and that count for every character on the account and are not sold in the cash shop.
Or at least put also standard account fee (extra character slots for money, monthly), server transfer and name change to your list.

Also, the marriage itself is free.

So some people are saying "Pfft, not that many people have left/there are loads of new people too!"

And some are saying "Huge dent! Loads and loads of people have left!"

Until I see some hard numbers, I trust none of you.

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Originally Posted by Limecat

Get them working on the mountain of needed QoL fixes.

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do we really want that? just search for the list of known issues with ffxi since that new crew has been working. id rather have unmet QoL requests than a broken game i cannot play

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Originally Posted by zosia

Does it matter if we were warned or not? It was a rookie mistake. People take vacations all the time without causing their company or project to freeze. Let's hope they start investing in this game enough to have staff for coverage.

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Care to give an example of a games division that works to release content patches every 1.5 months (yes, even those .5 patches are noteworthy patches in this case) that also manages to have their small team take vacations? We're not talking about a small business that handles customer service or food here. We're talking about an actual private company that does NOT work with the public as their normal day-to-day with separated divisions/departments, like the FFXIV team, that only houses a small amount of staff. A director position, in such an area, would halt production drastically if they took a few days off for vacation. A part of a project left to two people, where one took vacation, is EXTREMELY frustrating to handle for the one person left.

Quality employees in small divisions try not to take vacations because you mess up A TON of stuff when you do. Work a day in your life, and you can probably understand that. Heck, if you don't understand it, and you do work in such a situation and take vacations, your coworkers likely have quite a grudge against you. Your boss is probably itching to let you go the moment you slip up, assuming one were to work closely with em lol.

Ideally, this would indeed be all fixed if SE decides to increase staff to the FFXIV department, but who can say besides the higher ups and Yoshi-P. It's unfortunately one of those situations where you shouldn't hold your breath to.

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Originally Posted by LeeraSorlan

Yea these people saying the devs took a vacation so its fine to delay things just have no clue what they are on about.

If devs need a vacation, do i, but dont put the game on hold.
ANY business with common sense would have a few people pushing out tiny things during that vacation.
Its pure idiocy to completly halt game progress. We are not the devs friends, we pay for a product, vacation time should NOT be an excuse, this is their job, not a luxury.

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Yet your still around like all the others who cry soooooooooo? do you guys need a pat on the back or something? i mean you guys act like the world came to a end but heyy the games still around doing just fine my world was still jam packed with players so i guess you guys are the minority.

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Do you really want that? No? Then don't act like the development team are your buddies and and come up with whatever thing to say to defend them.

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Ill Defend them since this is the first time it's happ and the team always seems to do a very stand up job